Greek vs Hebrew verson of creation plus Jesus vs Yahweh (with alittle rant ^^;)

[Karas]

While looking at both Hebrew and Gnostic (Greek) verson of the creation story. I notised that it's telling the same story but more clearer and shocking if you haven't relized what just happend between man and the gods.

"Then the seven of them together laid plans. They came up to Adam and Eve timidly: they said to him, "The fruit of all the trees created for you in Paradise shall be eaten; but as for the tree of knowledge, control yourselves and do not eat from it. If you eat, you will die." Having imparted great fear to them, they withdrew up to their authorities.

Then came the wisest of all creatures, who was called Beast. And when he saw the likeness of their mother Eve he said to her, "What did God say to you? Was it 'Do not eat from the tree of knowledge'?" She said, "He said not only, 'Do not eat from it', but, 'Do not touch it, lest you die.'" He said to her, "Do not be afraid. In death you shall not die. For he knows that when you eat from it, your intellect will become sober and you will come to be like gods, recognizing the difference that obtains between evil men and good ones. Indeed, it was in jealousy that he said this to you, so that you would not eat from it."

Now Eve had confidence in the words of the instructor. She gazed at the tree and saw that it was beautiful and appetizing, and liked it; she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she gave some also to her husband, and he too ate it. Then their intellect became open. For when they had eaten, the light of knowledge had shone upon them. When they clothed themselves with shame, they knew that they were naked of knowledge. When they became sober, they saw that they were naked and became enamored of one another. When they saw that the ones who had modelled them had the form of beasts, they loathed them: they were very aware.

Then when the rulers knew that they had broken their commandments, they entered Paradise and came to Adam and Eve with earthquake and great threatening, to see the effect of the aid. Then Adam and Eve trembled greatly and hid under the trees in Paradise. Then the rulers did not know where they were and said, "Adam, where are you?" He said, "I am here, for through fear of you I hid, being ashamed." And they said to him ignorantly, "Who told you about the shame with which you clothed yourself? - unless you have eaten from that tree!" He said, "The woman whom you gave me - it is she that gave to me and I ate." Then they said to the latter, "What is this that you have done?" She answered and said, "It is the instructor who urged me on, and I ate."

Then the rulers came up to the instructor. Their eyes became misty because of him, and they could not do anything to him. They cursed him, since they were powerless. Afterwards, they came up to the woman and cursed her and her offspring. After the woman, they cursed Adam, and the land because of him, and the crops; and all things they had created, they cursed. They have no blessing. Good cannot result from evil.

From that day, the authorities knew that truly there was something mightier than they: they recognized only that their commandments had not been kept. Great jealousy was brought into the world solely because of the immortal man. Now when the rulers saw that their Adam had entered into an alien state of knowledge, they desired to test him, and they gathered together all the domestic animals and the wild beasts of the earth and the birds of heaven and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. When he saw them, he gave names to their creatures.

They became troubled because Adam had recovered from all the trials. They assembled and laid plans, and they said, "Behold Adam! He has come to be like one of us, so that he knows the difference between the light and the darkness. Now perhaps he will be deceived, as in the case of the Tree of Knowledge, and also will come to the Tree of Life and eat from it, and become immortal, and become lord, and despise us and disdain us and all our glory! Then he will denounce us along with our universe. Come, let us expel him from Paradise, down to the land from which he was taken, so that henceforth he might not be able to recognize anything better than we can." And so they expelled Adam from Paradise, along with his wife. And this deed that they had done was not enough for them. Rather, they were afraid. They went in to the Tree of Life and surrounded it with great fearful things, fiery living creatures called "Cheroubin", and they put a flaming sword in their midst, fearfully twirling at all times, so that no earthly being might ever enter that place."

        VS the Hebrew verson (NIV) 

2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 

17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." 

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 

3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 

3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " 

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

 6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. 

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 

9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?" 

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid." 

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

 12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it." 

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

 14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." 

16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." 

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. 

18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 

19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."  

22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 

23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 

24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Tree of life and tree of knowledge.
 
Adam and eve were mortals and dumb down till they took the fruit of knowledge and there awereness grew, "knowing good and evil". Then the gods kicked them out without haven the fruit from the tree of life so they only went out with just knowledge. This shows how unperfect they were before they touched the fruit...
They were in "perfect" health, but that's about it.

I then remmber a quote made by Jesus when he spoke to the Jews

John 8:31
 "Then said Jesus to those Jews ..."

8:42
"'...If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God..."

8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.'"

The only founder of the Jews/Israel is the Hebrew god Yahweh and it can't be Satan cause he is just a title and only does what Yahweh commands him to do. 

And then there's this quote from one of the gnostic writings

The text The Apokryphon of John (or The Secret Book of John) states:

"He is impious in his madness, she who dwells in him. For he said, 'I am God and no other god exists except me', since he is ignorant of the place from which his strength had come"

If this sounds impossable then consider the following verse.

John 8:3-11
"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

The law on adultery being referred to here is Deut 22:22 and Lev 20:10 which state:

Deut 22:22
"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel."

Lev 20:10
"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

The laws that the Jews are following is yaweh's and Jesus saved the woman from being stoned to death.
The laws by "god" is "perfect" and "eternal" and the Jews still follow yaweh's "perfect" laws till this day.

Jesus also broke the laws about Sabbath day. Another "perfect" law by Yahweh    

 Exo 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death

Anyone who does any work on the Sabbath must be put to death. As it shown here: 

Num 15:32-36
"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."

Another intresting finding 

John 8:54-55
"Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying(laws)."

Surly Jesus isn't talking about yahweh cause 1: he is rejecting all the "perfect" laws set by Yahweh and 2: he always talks about how loving and careing his "father" is. So who is this being that Jesus is talking about here?

Conclusion:
I belive that some how the Greek religion got mixed with the Jewish Hebrew religion and there's a huge battle between the old testament and the new testament. If we to take the bible serously I would say the real evil in the book of the bible is Yahweh and Jesus came to put a stop to his unjust laws and got killed by yahweh's followers. Jesus came and teach about forgiving and love and showing us the right path to follow.
If Jesus was with Yahweh when he told Moses to stone a guy for picking sticks, would he stand by Yahweh's side and watch? Would Jesus watch all the murders Yahweh caused and orderd his people to kill little babys and children? I think not... Jesus showed a diffent side, a loving for all babies and children and forgivness for all sins for it is said "god is love and just" if Jesus was truly yahweh's son, he would take a sword and follow the "perfect" laws of lord Yahweh.     

[NoY]

interesting thanks for sharing 


:NoY:

[personalreality]

very interesting indeed.  absolutely, thank you for sharing.

have you studied gnosticism as a mystery tradition before?

in the mystery tradition jesus is not alone, he is accompanied by his "mate" sophia (wisdom).

you might enjoy looking into it.

i read some books a few years back that were pretty neat in that regard, "The Laughing Christ" and "Jesus and the Lost Goddess".

[Karas]

very interesting indeed.  absolutely, thank you for sharing.

have you studied gnosticism as a mystery tradition before?

in the mystery tradition jesus is not alone, he is accompanied by his "mate" sophia (wisdom).

you might enjoy looking into it.

i read some books a few years back that were pretty neat in that regard, "The Laughing Christ" and "Jesus and the Lost Goddess".

I look at bits and pieces on the gnostic stuff. I had a quick search on mystery tradition and just wondering if this is a good start for info? http://northernway.org/school.html

[personalreality]

i really couldn't say, my knowledge on the subject is limited.

i looked at the site and it looks pretty legit, but i don't really follow christian mysteries anymore, so i don't know.