Oh my theory is God just came up! He created him self some how.[:O]
The problem with this is that you are thinking of God as a being. God as I think of him, is more of an energy that has a conciousnuss. The way this energy came around is a very thought provoking experience. Energy has been proven that it can't be created or destroyed and thus, God has to have always just. Been. There is no other way to explain it, he has just been in a existince in his plane of reality and when bored and lonly created all this, with the energy that he is made of. Really makes you feel special when you think about it.[:D]
I believe everything was dreamed into existance.
Yeah but who was the dreamer?
That reminds me of something. It was a quote I don't remember who said it though. "How do we know all this is real, what if this is just a dream that we are apart of. But if it is only a dream then who is dreaming it?" So maybe we are just a dream and there is another civilization outside of this. This is kind of true concidering the astral, but you still have to think of where they came from and I still don't know.
Hmmm... how was GOD created???
Let's see, take one Mr. God and one Miss(or Ms.) God
Add some fine Italian (or Greek) cuisine (hearty food for some
hearty loving ahead, eh?)
A couple bottles of fine Port.
Some smooth, sexy Cole Porter playing in the background
And "VOILA"!!! .............you have one freshly made GOD!
~GhostRider (You're FIRST source for indisputable facts!)
LOL!
I remember Steven Hawkins reply to the question "what was before the big bang?" - he said that the question is meaningless, since there was no time before the big bang. There was no "previous" (maybe there still is?)
Similar with God.
Another way of thinking about it, is that if God is infinite (which I think he is) then its totally impossible to think of something which could exist before Him. Its like saying infinite + 1 = infinite, ie God +/- anything = God. The infinite covers all things. However if God is everything, then He is also nothing. So if you want to say that previous to Gods creation He was nothing then he would still be Infinite. You cant win with logic!
Rob
See what you think
The quote below is from the book,
The freedom of choice
from http://thefreedomofchoice.com/
Page13-14
The Beginning
Imagine The Beginning.
The Beginning of Everything.
There is NOTHING.
Absolutely Nothing - no space, no time, no perception, no
consciousness - nothing.
Can you imagine TRUE NOTHING?
I know that it is hard, but try...
Imagine theoretical, hypothetical, absolute NOTHING that had
to exist before anything else in The Beginning.
The Beginning of Everything.
Try to imagine NOTHING in your mind.
Now, how many absolute "Nothings" like that can exist?
If you say 2 or more - neither of them will be "nothing"
anymore - there will be 2 of "something" that you defined and
distinguished as 2 separate "things".
So, we have to conclude, that in The Beginning - there could
only be ONE NOTHING.
Singularity.
Hence, the entire Universe must be a Single Process – no
matter how complicated it seems to us and no matter how
limited is our perception and interpretation of it.
Incidentally, everything that our astronomers can perceive in
the Universe seems to originate from the Single Point in Space
– called by scientists the Centre of the Big Bang. [16]
Is it a coincidence?
..................
page18-19
The Origin of Intellect
We agreed that in The Beginning there was a Singular
Nothing.
We also agreed, that before Life could come to existence –
there had to exist a Great Intellect who designed it.
How could a Great Intellect come to existence? Could it come
to existence from and In the Nothing?
Well, we have just discovered, by examining certain aspects of
ourselves in one of the previous sections of this book, that
intellect CAN and actually DOES develop itself. You have a
proof of it within your OWN intellect.
Indeed, when you sincerely and thoroughly examine Your Self
– you will find that your own intellect has expanded itself
from a very simple awareness, so simple in fact, that you may
not even consciously remember it.
So, we have a very logical sequence. The Intellect developed
ITSELF from the simplest possible awareness – just as our
intellect did.
In other words, the awareness of Nothing expanded itself -
much as OUR awareness did. That's why it is SO important to
study ourselves – it is the only way to understand
Consciousness.
From awareness - consciousness of "being", intelligence and
Intellect developed - all by ITSELF and with ITSELF. Nothing
else was needed - only the INTENT of Intellect to think by
itself – at every stage of its own development.3
We have already established that one of the most pleasurable
and satisfying activities for Intellect is to develop ITSELF.
Hence, it is almost certain, that after sufficient amount of
thinking The Intellect became very evolved - from and in the
Nothing.
Apart from the pleasure of developing itself, what OTHER
essential needs of The Advanced Intellect can we identify
beyond any doubt? What would satisfy The Great Intellect and
Intelligence of the Designer of Life? It seems impossible to
say... However, we CAN determine the needs of OUR
intellect, can't we?
Let's try to establish what activities are the most satisfying
for YOUR intelligence and intellect.
Imagine that you have no physical body - only intellect and
intelligence. What would be the most pleasant and most
satisfying activity for your intellect? The ULTIMATE
activity? That would NEVER be boring, that you would like
doing indefinitely long?
It is purely about yourself. The better you understand the
answer - the closer you will approach complete understanding
of the Purpose of the entire Universe. For this reason, I suggest
that you THINK about the answer to this question, before you
continue reading.
From awareness - consciousness of "being", intelligence and
Intellect developed - all by ITSELF and with ITSELF. Nothing
else was needed - only the INTENT of Intellect to think by
itself – at every stage of its own development
That sums it up for me pretty much! But what evidence is there?
The dreamer lives in his own dream.
I think that time is not all emcompassing. Just a realization or perhaps an idea I had/experienced. If God exists outside of or above time, he does not need to have a beginning, because beginning indicates that it exists within time.
And, I think as long as we think in a linear fashion we will never understand. I think that for conciousness itself to evolve you have to expand outwards (grow outwards), not forward. Like going from being in a box, to being outside the box looking at it (only now you're in a bigger box).
Just my thoughts, I do not claim to be right, just thought I'd throw my theory out there.
I now think god dreamed up the world.
Did he make the universe as well?
Sugar...
Spice...
And everything nice...
These were the ingrediants chosen to create the perfect Creator, but Professor Utonium accidently added some Chemical X to the concoction and thus God was created!
Uhhhhh?
[8)]
That sums it up for me pretty much! But what evidence is there?
Study yourSELF. Look backward to the day u are born. The evidence exists in the mind.
"If God exists outside of or above time, he does not need to have a beginning, because beginning indicates that it exists within time.
"
Is there any evidence?
As far as evidence goes, no. It was just a deep thought I had (atleast I thought it was deep, hehe). But, then again, what real physical evidence can you have on something spiritual in nature?
I guess we will not know untill we die.
Maybe we will never know; even after death...
I believe we have not been given tha ability to understand this. Try to reach out and feel for the answer to thet question.......nothing right!!.Anyone who claims to know the answer to this, or attempts to even explain this is IMHO severely misguided by pride and deluded by ego.[:)][:o)]and quite foolish
Regards MS
aa
quote:
Originally posted by Nagual
Maybe we will never know; even after death...
I remember an experience Robert Bruce had where he says he was meditating and saw himself walk into the room, only with glasses on, then pick up a book, see himself sitting in the chair, wave and then walk out. A few years later he experienced it himself on the other side of time as it were, exactly the same. Didn't screw it up or anything [8D]. So.....
I also remember Robert Monroe experiencing a sort of meeting with himself in the astral, but similarly years apart.
Oh, one other thing from RB's side - connecting with himself in previous lives through the all-pervading NOW.
Like all things in nature, time is just another thing we have to "understand" (or at least gain control of, mastery eventually). Bring it on!
Rob
Mustardseed,
You wrote:
quote:
I believe we have not been given tha ability to understand this. Try to reach out and feel for the answer to thet question.......nothing right!!.Anyone who claims to know the answer to this, or attempts to even explain this is IMHO severely misguided by pride and deluded by ego.and quite foolish
Your literal interpretation of the bible and your modern Christianity certainly claims to know the answer--wasn't Jesus supposed to be God incarnate? AND wasn't HE born of a virgin? And didn't HE die and resurrect back to his place in heaven? And won't HE return again, very soon I might add, to save the Christians and send all others to hell?
OR PERHAPS--are you finally "getting it" and all these silly claims are--just as you said,
"misguided by pride and deluded by ego and quite foolish"???
You truly baffle me Mustardseed...do you have a twin that also posts to this board?
Oh Beth be nice now. Remember!!!The question was HOW! You surprise me too .
I can just see you maybe 8 or 9 yrs old in the schoolyard arguing with your friends "no you are a dogpoop....no you are no you are" all flustered and red cheeked . You look so cute with your dimpled cheeks and freckles, and then you burst out na na na na na and turn on your heal before anyone can answer you and with your nose high in the sky you leave, still sizzeling inside with the hurt and and crying a salty tear at how mean they were to you [;)]
I have no problem with you Beth. I dealt with kids all my life.[:)]
MS, Maybe the world's a safer place with it this way. Teehee
Absolutely. It is hard to explain but I feel like maybe she takes her self very serious. I know I am just a fool, and having made the mistakes I have I am quite aware of my own failability. Ha I love THE ALLEGORY OF US ALL BEING KIDS. I FOR ONE FEEL LIKE ONE
Love MS
Mustardseed,
Unresolved parental issues will manifest in the kind of child of God we are. There are the innocent, and there are also the brats. Brats are immature spiritually. Good with facts, weak in other things.
This is not a dig to Beth. We all hold, and can express these attributes (innocent vs brat). This could be a clue to why Beth holds so tight to her facts. Some things we don't understand I guess. Her strengths and weaknesses are not my business. I'm too busy with own, haha.
I asked you about where to find some of your experiences in another thread. I can't find them (under lover astral realm, can't locate it). That okay though, if it were meant to be, it will be. I'll eventually happen across them.
Actually it is called "Lower astral regions" oops[;)]. Rerards MS
Isn't the "lover astral region" in the "lower astral region" or were you thinking about a different place? [:D]
Aren't they the same?
"The "Scholars' Translation" of the Gospel of Thomas
by Stephen Patterson and Marvin Meyer
18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
50 Jesus said,
"If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.'
If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.'
If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"
IF you understand the meaning of the three sayings, you will know how God is created.
18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
bomohwkl,
There is a thread in the Early Judaism and Christianity Section on the Gospel of Thomas. This is such a wonderful text, I hope that you will continue your postings in that thread. I made it a sticky again for you. There is also one for the Gospel of Philip.
Peace,
Beth
quote:
Originally posted by bomohwkl
18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
I heard that before...Is that a popular saying?
God did not create Himself, He simply always was. He is eternal. Eternal does not mean he cannot die, but that He cannot die and was never born... He always was. This is an IMPOSSIBLE concept for us to believe in this life, but a certainty in the next. We ourselves have eternity to discover ourselves and the truth... why ask impossible questions in a world where for all intensive purposes we are unwise?
quote:
by bomohwkl quoting "The Freedom of Choice":
Imagine The Beginning.
The Beginning of Everything.
There is NOTHING.
Absolutely Nothing - no space, no time, no perception, no
consciousness - nothing.
Can you imagine TRUE NOTHING?
I know that it is hard, but try...
Imagine theoretical, hypothetical, absolute NOTHING that had
to exist before anything else in The Beginning.
The Beginning of Everything.
Try to imagine NOTHING in your mind.
Now, how many absolute "Nothings" like that can exist?
If you say 2 or more - neither of them will be "nothing"
anymore - there will be 2 of "something" that you defined and
distinguished as 2 separate "things".
So, we have to conclude, that in The Beginning - there could
only be ONE NOTHING.
Singularity.
This makes me think of Aristotle's Law of Non-Contradiction ... By defining the beginning as this singular "nothing" you have actually created an internal contradiction - the "nothing" has been defined, "named" if you will, and thus is a "thing." One cannot truly imagine NOTHING, for in so doing, it becomes a thing, and object, a construct of the mind, defined in terms of that which it is not.
Which leads back to alphaomega's post (and username): God was not created, God simply IS, has been and will be - the beginning and end and beyond all conceptions, yet manifest in being. The unnameable, unimaginable, beyond time and space, without beginning or end. And yet ... God is manifest in the very fabric of our being, our minds, our souls, and in all of that which dances in time and space - Creation.
God ... simultaneously transcendent and immanent.
If God create a rock that is too heavy to move then obviously he can't move it and he's not all-powerful. If he can't create the rock, then he's not all powerful...
If he's not all powerful, then is he God?
I don't know how to get anywhere just debating where God came from and whether he exists, because I don't know anything about him as an individual. Is he perfect? Is he everywhere? Is he everywhen? Is he good or evil?
If he is a perfect, all knowing, all seeing, perfect God, then he obviously came from everywhere and nowhere (which is somewhere) and does everything by doing nothing because he is perfect.
But I have no reason, no empirical reason to believe he's perfect. If God was perfect he wouldn't have split up jerry rice and joe montana from the 49ers. He would strike down the backstreet boys with fire and brimstone, and he would have started one religion instead of a million.
I don't know where he came from but he can go to hell.
Coffee,
quote:
If God create a rock that is too heavy to move then obviously he can't move it and he's not all-powerful. If he can't create the rock, then he's not all powerful...
This is a logical impossibility. To paraphrase C. S. Lewis regarding this argument: nonsense is still nonsense even when it is spoken about God.
God just is. He identifies himself in the Bible as "I am that I am." He is Pure Actuality, is self-existent, is immutable, is indivisible, is an absolutely necessary Being, is omniscient and omnipotent, and is eternal (among other things). And he is personal.
to paraphrase nonsense about this argument: cs lewis is still cs lewis even when spoken about about god. That's right, you tackled my so called "nonsense" with more nonsense. God just is? I am that I am? I might as well say it.
I just am.
Do I sound like God?
How about "I have a butt so I can have a butt?"
i guess it only works when God says It.
I HAVE A BUTT SO I CAN HAVE A BUTT!
Is that more like it?
Coffee,
This is obviously way above your head.
Which part is way above my head?
How about the part about how God always justifies his existence with a riddle:
"I am that I am...
"I am the beginning and the end...but they're the same thing...
"The first will be last, and the last will be first...
"God simply is...duh...
He obviously didn't get far by justifying his proof with the conclusion, so he got a little further with his "the check is in the mail" attitude:
"First, you were all born slaves to free will, but you screwed that up so for a while you were all born slaves to sin, but since Christ died you're a slave to both. But your reward is in heaven! Whoo-hoo! It's a party up in here!
In other words...
"You're all born sinners and even though I created you it's not my fault you sin, it's yours. So if you worship me, I might let you into heaven. If you don't worship me, or you do it half-butt, then I'll torture you for all eternity in hell. Just remember, it's your choice, I'm not forcing you to worship me with an altimatum."
But then he bails out when you need him:
"Dear God, my recent injury has prevented me from working and we've run so low on money that I've lost my house, my car, and my wife. My kids wear dirty clothes and always get in trouble at school. I can't afford physical therapy, but without it I will never be well enough to work. What do I do?"
No answer from God
"Dear God. I need you so bad right now."
No answer. Things just get worse, and God pretends not to hear you.
Let's pretend he answers:
"HEAR ME SINNER. I AM GOD, YOU CAN TELL BECAUSE I ALWAYS TALK IN CAPITAL LETTERS. REPENT FOR YOUR SINS"
"But God I need help. The finance manager at the bank wouldn't cut me any slack on my payments. Then he stole my wife. Just strike him down with lightning."
"YOUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN. I WILL TORTURE YOUR ENEMY FOR ALL ETERNITY IN HELL. PRAY FOR FORGIVENESS."
and so on.
But then again, when does God answer prayers?
He's like an invisible purple unicorn. In order for the invisible purple unicorn to exist, you need to have two things: knowledge and faith. You know the unicorn is invisible because you can't see it. And you have faith that it's purple.
We do the same thing with God. We prove he exists with faith and write it as a riddle or a paradox then call it knowledge, then use that knowledge to justify our faith.
But the truth is written in the Bible, you might say. Did God write the part about taking your son on the mountain and sacrificing him? Did he write the part about enslaving your neighbor and enslaving them? Did he write the part about making enormous temples out of gold even though there were thousands of people nearby who were starving? Or did he only write the nice parts, the psalms and such.
All I know is this: God will probably read this Internet post, because he is everywhere and he is personal, so I'd better repent for doing it.
Here goes:
Please forgive me for writing this letter, because I thunk bad thoughts.
Forgive me for telling my brother that the burning bush was a venereal disease.
Forgive me for wanting to make God-fearing marital love to Brittany Spears (if you know what I mean).
Finally, forgive me for not knowing which riddles to believe in. They're definitely way over my head.
I didn't mean to be a conversation stopper, I really wanted to get a lot of other people's opinions.
In fact, I planned on making most of you really mad and getting a lot of furious responses.
Does this mean none of you have anything to say? You don't care that I don't think God was created? That I'm influencing other people to think my way?
Think of GOD as a circle. There is no begining and there is no end
Why should we think of God as a circle? he only has a middle, no beginning or end?
quote:
In fact, I planned on making most of you really mad and getting a lot of furious responses.
Does this mean none of you have anything to say? You don't care that I don't think God was created? That I'm influencing other people to think my way?
If you really wanted to listen to others - as in
dialogue - they might speak. But since you seem rather inclined simply to denegrate others beliefs with sarcasm and mock their God ...
Anyway, what is, is, and needs no apologia, especially when one "has no ears to hear." God's appeal, his argument, his proof is already within you, in your very being, and in the fabric of all that IS around you.
What is the proof?
he has no proof, only closed-minded faith
edit: she to he
Mattrox,
If you are referring to me as the close-minded one, you have absolutely no idea of the experiences that brought me to the point of understanding and belief that I have.
Are you really 14 years old, as your profile states? If so, my young friend, I was a "new ager" before you were even born ... literally.
Crystals? CHECK. Initiation? CHECK. Clairvoyance? CHECK. Materializations of objects? CHECK. Telekenisis? CHECK. Face to face encounters with angels and demons? CHECK. Hung out with the guru at the Hare Krishna temple in Chicago? CHECK. And on and on and on ...
In August, 1987, I was certain that the "collective Ego" had conspired against me and my friend as we attempted to go to a Harmonic Convergence meditation event. First we went to the wrong location, then my tire blew out, I had no spare ... never got there. Guess what? It was not any "collective Ego" attempting to bar my way. It was my own stupidity and irresponsibility in not maintaining my car properly!
In any case, I had a night in which I went down, down, down into the very pit of hell .... I came out, along with a friend, having battled very real demons (or Negs, if you prefer that language) and having a HUGE transformative experience of the Living, Loving God of All ... and all consuming Holy Fire in which I was baptized - immersed - changed - freed and, as Moses struck a rock in the Desert and fresh water flowed from it, a wellspring of tremendous life sprung up within my soul. A healing balm - the Waters of Shiloh.
In the many years since that time (about the number of years you have been residing in you current fleshly abode), I have taken a great deal of effort and time to meditate, fast, pray, learn and grow. Ahhh, but I'm close minded! Well, so be it ...
But That Which Is Simply Is ... It is It's own Proof, and It resides at the core and center of every living being, for one of It's names is Eyeh Asher Eyah, Being, manifested in all that is, yet not to be confused with that Creation. Both immediately immanant and eternally transendant. Mystery of mysteries revealed, I believe, in the Person of Jesus Christ.
Peace and grace to you ...
quote:
Originally posted by Risu no Kairu
Sugar...
Spice...
And everything nice...
These were the ingrediants chosen to create the perfect Creator, but Professor Utonium accidently added some Chemical X to the concoction and thus God was created!
truly a best answer for any moron who asks about god
Hasn't anyone here seen "Bruce Almighty"? God is a black man with an average height. Please be informed before you write replies in which his existance is questioned.. It makes you look stupid..
quote:
Originally posted by Tony M.
Hasn't anyone here seen "Bruce Almighty"? God is a black man with an average height. Please be informed before you write replies in which his existance is questioned.. It makes you look stupid..
LMFAO! I never saw that but HAHAHHA!
Seriously, god could have been created by the aliens that created us (humans). *I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS AT ALL, ITS JUST A THOUGHT. BE OPEN MINDED*
Let me hear your theory's on that. It has really boggled me.
God... simply, in my understanding just IS. "I AM" Of course this cannot be understood when thinking about this in a physical sence. In this physical reality we have what is called "Time." However, God is "Timeless". A blink from God, a minute in his time, or even a day could be an eon to us, or even just a fraction of a second.
-"One day I dream that all of humanity will be in harmony, regardless of religion, and The Truth of GOD that illuminates through all of us will be the force that binds us together. Do not forget we come from a source that has or knows no limits, through which we have been given the means to make the infitine possible. Faith is not only empty Hope placed in something, yet it is knowledge and evidence of those things that are not seen."
When man began to keep records of what would become the Bible.
How was God created?
With plasticine and sticky back plastic.
And a huge chunk of our imagination.
Hi ho.
Just my opinion.
Sarah
The Universe began . . .
NOT at the beginning because time is circular.
The Universe began in February 6th, 1972 at a small hotel in Baltimore. It was 3:00 A.M. and on a dirty counter, in a single occupancy room, lies a just then sentient Ham Sandwich with intellect and POWER: the likes of which you could never believe!
Its pickles are GRACE!
Its crust is LOVE!
Its mustard is [EDIT]!
Anyone who has EVER partaken of a Ham Sandwich is SAVED!
Don't you SEE! That is WHY you were eating your Ham Sandwich - subconsciously the God Universe/Sandwich: Ham (i.e. GUSH) was guiding you too!
People who ignore the little voices and never eat Ham Sandwiches will NOT be forgiven. They will be reincarnated as Hotel Help for all ETERNITY - - that is until 1972 happens all over again.
May the Cheese be with you, ALWAYS. Amen.