Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2003, 14:39:46
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2003, 14:39:46
Despite the numerous theories about what's supposed to happen, I don't think anything is going to happen. This spirit-war is far from over. 2012 is the end of the Mayan calendar as far as we can tell. Nobody knows why though. People have their theories but I have a definite feeling that we are in no immediate danger of the spirit-war. At one time I did believe the end of the world was at hand but then I realized that we cannot possibly prepare for the end of the world no matter when it is, so there's no point in worrying about it. The spirit-war is going on, and I can feel it. I fight every day. In fact just a couple nights ago I fought a dark spirit that entered my apartment via the window. I warned it to leave and never return or it would face me in combat. It chose combat, and I made it my practice dummy. I have a lot of guardians and pretty good radar for negs. It is rare that they will surprise me or enter my room undetected. I rarely get attacked as it is.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Nagual on October 24, 2003, 01:23:38
Post by: Nagual on October 24, 2003, 01:23:38
quote:
or that there is nothing to worry about
There is nothing to worry about because it's useless to worry about it... Just enjoy life and whatever will happen, will happen... like everybody will have to die some day; no use to worry about it...
Don't waste any time and have fun!
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: WalkerInTheWoods on October 24, 2003, 05:05:15
Post by: WalkerInTheWoods on October 24, 2003, 05:05:15
Make love, not war. [:X]
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: xardas on October 24, 2003, 05:45:01
Post by: xardas on October 24, 2003, 05:45:01
Legions of demons will come from the beneath...
Rains of fire will fall from the sky...
Hordes of undead will come from the graves...
A vast demonic army will come and get you all...
It's so nice, i wanna hear the same song twice :P
Rains of fire will fall from the sky...
Hordes of undead will come from the graves...
A vast demonic army will come and get you all...
It's so nice, i wanna hear the same song twice :P
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Varner-LaPrade on October 24, 2003, 06:42:07
Post by: Varner-LaPrade on October 24, 2003, 06:42:07
2012 will never happen their coming in 2011
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: MJ-12 on October 24, 2003, 13:11:27
Post by: MJ-12 on October 24, 2003, 13:11:27
yuhg
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Gandalf on October 24, 2003, 17:57:45
Post by: Gandalf on October 24, 2003, 17:57:45
oh hell no, not yet more 2012 nonsense and 'spirit wars'! Those nu-agers have got a lot to answer for.
btw would people stop being so paranoid about 'demons'. This is such a christian fantasy, as it is so concerned with oppositions and conflict.
The word demon comes from the original Greek word 'daimonae' and was just a general term for any kind of spirit, whether it was a godlike spirit or even the spirit of your antie mary.
There was no 'good & evil' in the classical world (or the celtic one for that matter).
The christians however were keen on reducing everything into oppostions, good/evil, light/dark, so spirits were suddenly all 'evil', and there was some kind of war going on.... complete tot.
Which is actually a system which they inherated from late Judaism. Judaism itself got the idea from the ancient Zoaroastian religion of Persia which has had a huge impact on later Jewish and christian thought.
Douglas
btw would people stop being so paranoid about 'demons'. This is such a christian fantasy, as it is so concerned with oppositions and conflict.
The word demon comes from the original Greek word 'daimonae' and was just a general term for any kind of spirit, whether it was a godlike spirit or even the spirit of your antie mary.
There was no 'good & evil' in the classical world (or the celtic one for that matter).
The christians however were keen on reducing everything into oppostions, good/evil, light/dark, so spirits were suddenly all 'evil', and there was some kind of war going on.... complete tot.
Which is actually a system which they inherated from late Judaism. Judaism itself got the idea from the ancient Zoaroastian religion of Persia which has had a huge impact on later Jewish and christian thought.
Douglas
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: GhostRider on October 25, 2003, 19:55:53
Post by: GhostRider on October 25, 2003, 19:55:53
Ha ha ha! Good one Gandalf! In 2012, the only demons flying around the earth will be the Horrible Flying Demon Monkeys flying out of my but after I've had too much chili and beans AND Shiner Bock because I was celebrating that there are no Flying Demons making war with us...Yeeeee---HaaaW!!!
If it ain't the flying demons it's the Reptiles that are constantly being pointed too as the bad guys for that phrophecy.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Van-Stolin on October 25, 2003, 23:39:44
Post by: Van-Stolin on October 25, 2003, 23:39:44
I just wish this would be contained in one topic, there are like five others you guys could talk about this in.
Gandalf, I think I am the only one that doesn't think that demons are evil. I have more reasoning to beleive that humans will want to kill demons and they will just defend themselves.
Gandalf, I think I am the only one that doesn't think that demons are evil. I have more reasoning to beleive that humans will want to kill demons and they will just defend themselves.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Nagual on October 26, 2003, 02:01:23
Post by: Nagual on October 26, 2003, 02:01:23
The word Demon as a negative "meaning"... So, maybe you should use another word to name/describe your non-evil friends. Maybe just call them "Angels"/"Guides" and everybody will love them... [|)]
Personaly, I just use the words: beings, things... it's more neutral.
Personaly, I just use the words: beings, things... it's more neutral.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Beth on October 26, 2003, 22:16:14
Post by: Beth on October 26, 2003, 22:16:14
Hey all,
Gandalf is right. The word "demon" comes from the Greek word "daimonion" or "daimon." This was a word used for "otherworldly, or supernatural beings" -- both positive and negative. But in extra-biblical writings, spirit guides etc., were often referred to as "personal daimons." I guess if you wanted to be etymologically correct in correlation with the ancient Greek, you would specify whether the "demon/daimon" was positive or negative.
The Greek word for "spirit" is "pneuma" (pronounced "new-ma".) In Hebrew, the word for spirit is "ruach" (pronounced "ru-ak".) Both of these words stem from the meaning of "breath."
Van-stolin, if a person has a much broader view of their spiritual evolutionary status, then one could certainly see "negative daemons" as a potential personal positive--in that, as a negative they challenge you to overcome certain fears, obstacles or blockages. Most often just plain old "fear" itself. According to most of the mystical teachings that I have studied, there is a positive and negative for everything. Like a "coin" it just depends upon which side you are looking at. There is another thread concerning whether Jesus and Satan were/are brothers--this is the same kind of thing.
Just for the record, the word "angel" comes from Greek "aggellos" which means "to bring tidings" as well as "messenger, angel." In Hebrew, the word for angel is "malak" which means "to dispatch" as well as "ambassador, king, and messenger."
Peace,
Beth
Gandalf is right. The word "demon" comes from the Greek word "daimonion" or "daimon." This was a word used for "otherworldly, or supernatural beings" -- both positive and negative. But in extra-biblical writings, spirit guides etc., were often referred to as "personal daimons." I guess if you wanted to be etymologically correct in correlation with the ancient Greek, you would specify whether the "demon/daimon" was positive or negative.
The Greek word for "spirit" is "pneuma" (pronounced "new-ma".) In Hebrew, the word for spirit is "ruach" (pronounced "ru-ak".) Both of these words stem from the meaning of "breath."
Van-stolin, if a person has a much broader view of their spiritual evolutionary status, then one could certainly see "negative daemons" as a potential personal positive--in that, as a negative they challenge you to overcome certain fears, obstacles or blockages. Most often just plain old "fear" itself. According to most of the mystical teachings that I have studied, there is a positive and negative for everything. Like a "coin" it just depends upon which side you are looking at. There is another thread concerning whether Jesus and Satan were/are brothers--this is the same kind of thing.
Just for the record, the word "angel" comes from Greek "aggellos" which means "to bring tidings" as well as "messenger, angel." In Hebrew, the word for angel is "malak" which means "to dispatch" as well as "ambassador, king, and messenger."
Peace,
Beth
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: beavis on October 27, 2003, 22:02:15
Post by: beavis on October 27, 2003, 22:02:15
The average psi level (APL) on earth increases on an exponential curve. It will be the cause of all this "end of the world" stuff. But because its an exponential curve, we are already seeing its effects. This months APL / last months APL = next months APL / this months APL.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: James S on October 28, 2003, 20:14:15
Post by: James S on October 28, 2003, 20:14:15
quote:
Originally posted by beavis
The average psi level (APL) on earth increases on an exponential curve. It will be the cause of all this "end of the world" stuff. But because its an exponential curve, we are already seeing its effects. This months APL / last months APL = next months APL / this months APL.
What the...????
Ok this has got a formula in it. Therefore must have 87.5% of being correct.
But then 48% of all percentages are made up on the spot.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: jimbola on October 29, 2003, 08:38:49
Post by: jimbola on October 29, 2003, 08:38:49
What's this 2012 business then, are you just pulling dates out of the air, nothing happened in 1000, nothing happened in 2000 and i'm positive that even less is likely to happen in 2012, or 2013 for that matter. The only demons are in my pants after a curry.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Van-Stolin on October 29, 2003, 10:52:29
Post by: Van-Stolin on October 29, 2003, 10:52:29
2012 is the end of the Mayan calander and that is what people are going on. Altough there are lots of end of calander dates, but you don't see people using them. I guess it is because someone found out how to us Stone Henge and the dates match up or something, that is what I heard.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: beavis on October 29, 2003, 10:58:46
Post by: beavis on October 29, 2003, 10:58:46
James S, that formula is a general formula for an exponential curve. I know the average psi level increases exponentially with time.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: James S on October 29, 2003, 15:08:02
Post by: James S on October 29, 2003, 15:08:02
Thanks Bevis,
I actually didn't know that.
Well, actually there's a lot of things I don't know, and that was just one of them.[:I]
[:)]
James.
I actually didn't know that.
Well, actually there's a lot of things I don't know, and that was just one of them.[:I]
[:)]
James.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: beavis on October 29, 2003, 15:35:20
Post by: beavis on October 29, 2003, 15:35:20
last month = a^(t-30)
exponential curve = a^t
next month = a^(t+30)
a^t / a^(t-30) = a^(t+30) / a^t
a^(t-(t-30)) = a^((t+30)-t)
a^30 = a^30
exponential curve = a^t
next month = a^(t+30)
a^t / a^(t-30) = a^(t+30) / a^t
a^(t-(t-30)) = a^((t+30)-t)
a^30 = a^30
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: SomeBloke on June 26, 2004, 04:52:15
Post by: SomeBloke on June 26, 2004, 04:52:15
The trouble is, 'demon war' conjours up images of Buffy, and 2012 is just another date being tossed about that people think will come and go just like all the other dates that have been predicted in the past.
Having said that, it's ridiculous to say that evil doesn't exist - do murderers exist? If you believe in astral entities and you believe in evil people, presumably evil astral entities exist. If they are in some way powerful some people might call them a demon.
There is already a war on, and the world is much more complicated than it appears on the surface, but maybe you should search the archive for 'demon war' where you will find hundreds of posts hysterically predicting all sorts of chaos, most of which are wrong.
[:)]
Having said that, it's ridiculous to say that evil doesn't exist - do murderers exist? If you believe in astral entities and you believe in evil people, presumably evil astral entities exist. If they are in some way powerful some people might call them a demon.
There is already a war on, and the world is much more complicated than it appears on the surface, but maybe you should search the archive for 'demon war' where you will find hundreds of posts hysterically predicting all sorts of chaos, most of which are wrong.
[:)]
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Kerrblur on June 26, 2004, 11:16:52
Post by: Kerrblur on June 26, 2004, 11:16:52
Hello,
HeH I'm not even going to start to argue, cause hell I dont know I'm im right or Wrong but in case I am wrong and there is a Possibility that aDemon war is present at 2012 or 2005 or even right now seeing how we as human fight eachother, and we could be the demons BUT anyway lol lol Why would you want to even support the idea by even thinking about it or believing it to come true? lol I know I dont wanna manifest a demon to start Turfing my yard, while flying away yelling "Sucker!" ... I got enough demons already in my town as it is(ghetto), I dont need to be thinking about any more, take care of the demons right now instead of thinking of the millions that are lol "To Come".
HeH I'm not even going to start to argue, cause hell I dont know I'm im right or Wrong but in case I am wrong and there is a Possibility that a
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: SomeBloke on June 26, 2004, 14:43:58
Post by: SomeBloke on June 26, 2004, 14:43:58
Excuse me, are you trying to tell me what to do?
I wouldn't dare! [:)] I was really replying to the original post, sorry for confusion.
I wouldn't dare! [:)] I was really replying to the original post, sorry for confusion.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: SomeBloke on June 26, 2004, 15:22:29
Post by: SomeBloke on June 26, 2004, 15:22:29
Editing post... DOH! DOH!
Anyway, I stumbled on this...it reminds me of how the more I dive into this stuff the more I start to see astral in waking life, as if the is a fine line between astral & "reality" starts to diminish.
I went through this big-time recently, to me it seems as if the 'gap' between the material and astral is getting narrower. For a while I wondered if this was just something that affected me, but I think it is happening to everyone and more and more people become aware of it. I think the astral is still a part of reality, but seeing it overlaid on the waking world we've become so used to is a pretty disturbing experience.
Anyway, I stumbled on this...it reminds me of how the more I dive into this stuff the more I start to see astral in waking life, as if the is a fine line between astral & "reality" starts to diminish.
I went through this big-time recently, to me it seems as if the 'gap' between the material and astral is getting narrower. For a while I wondered if this was just something that affected me, but I think it is happening to everyone and more and more people become aware of it. I think the astral is still a part of reality, but seeing it overlaid on the waking world we've become so used to is a pretty disturbing experience.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Kerrblur on June 26, 2004, 18:44:12
Post by: Kerrblur on June 26, 2004, 18:44:12
DO I HEAR A ECHOE? I THINK I DO! or apparently everyone managed to skip right past my post hah
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: SomeBloke on June 27, 2004, 04:04:44
Post by: SomeBloke on June 27, 2004, 04:04:44
Sorry Kerrblur, yes I missed your post.
I really don't envy you if you live in a ghetto man... ever thought of moving out and seeing some trees? [:)]
I really don't envy you if you live in a ghetto man... ever thought of moving out and seeing some trees? [:)]
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Kerrblur on June 27, 2004, 11:22:18
Post by: Kerrblur on June 27, 2004, 11:22:18
Haha
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: narfellus on June 29, 2004, 09:31:45
Post by: narfellus on June 29, 2004, 09:31:45
quote:
demons love the ghetto
hell yeah they do!
No really, i do think the astral/reality line is blurring, but i don't think it's a bad thing. It means that more and more people are becoming aware of the spiritual side of our existense. In New Age philosophy, this is what God has been wanting ever since he bagged Atlantis. He wanted people to figure out esoteric secrets for themselves and share it, live it, teach it.
Or maybe it is a real demon war and we're going to die. Woo hoo!
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Yerzak06 on June 29, 2004, 22:39:20
Post by: Yerzak06 on June 29, 2004, 22:39:20
I think we should try concentrating our efforts on something real and now instead of worrying about something that will most likely never happen, if you really want to help minimize the existence of evil try to supress your own evil tendencies and be kind and loving to people. If you can help just one person have a better day when they are in need you did alot more good than preparing for the so called demon war.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: narfellus on July 01, 2004, 10:46:36
Post by: narfellus on July 01, 2004, 10:46:36
We could even argue that there's a demon war going on EVERY DAY. We have Los Angeles, the Pit of Corruption, we have global skirmishes and genocide, we have starving children by the millions, we have violent crimes and greedy churches. This could all just as easily be attributed to a subtle demonic influence as anything else. In Toltec tradition they thought hell WAS on earth, and heaven could be gained here by learning enlightenment admist the hell.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Kerrblur on July 01, 2004, 20:04:34
Post by: Kerrblur on July 01, 2004, 20:04:34
You know what, find the demon war made by 'The founder' and i started talking in there later on in the page
Hah i think its hillarious how you people Drown yourself in fear.
Thats what our country is allll about, the whole world, the news media, the internet with this bullsh*t.
Im sorry i sound ticked off, but i am just sick of the zeta thing, Demons coming, the news media with there obvious traits to compile and store fear in peoples heads
The internet with people who like to create this thread and others like it because they dwell in there room just THINKING and pondering it, developing the paranoia of deamons around them. Like Yerzak06 said, stop making these stupid thread, there worthless, just cause your dwelling in your fears, dont bring anyone else in it unless
Everyone constantly thinks about it and thats sad.
I made a meteor site, and its developed quite well, but you know
I dont need to be thinking about meteors SLAMMING on the earth when i got priorities to be taking care of RIGHT now, next week, not 2012, or 2006 or whatever
If somethings going to happen, then let it happen, your not goin to stop it if it is, why dwell your life in paranoia , or a less seeming option "GOT TO BE PREPARED" lol thats fear.
sorry. ttyl
Hah i think its hillarious how you people Drown yourself in fear.
Thats what our country is allll about, the whole world, the news media, the internet with this bullsh*t.
Im sorry i sound ticked off, but i am just sick of the zeta thing, Demons coming, the news media with there obvious traits to compile and store fear in peoples heads
The internet with people who like to create this thread and others like it because they dwell in there room just THINKING and pondering it, developing the paranoia of deamons around them. Like Yerzak06 said, stop making these stupid thread, there worthless, just cause your dwelling in your fears, dont bring anyone else in it unless
Everyone constantly thinks about it and thats sad.
I made a meteor site, and its developed quite well, but you know
I dont need to be thinking about meteors SLAMMING on the earth when i got priorities to be taking care of RIGHT now, next week, not 2012, or 2006 or whatever
If somethings going to happen, then let it happen, your not goin to stop it if it is, why dwell your life in paranoia , or a less seeming option "GOT TO BE PREPARED" lol thats fear.
sorry. ttyl
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: narfellus on July 02, 2004, 12:09:23
Post by: narfellus on July 02, 2004, 12:09:23
I agree with ya, Kerrblur, this world wallows in fear, ESPECIALLY everybody sucked into the media frenzy. The majority of people live in fear, and the astral has a large reflection of that fear as well. I guess that's why one of the big reasons to learn about metaphysics is to BEAT the cause of the fear behind the curtain. Once you can do that, you'll realize there was nothing to really fear all along, not in the long run.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Wronski Feint on July 09, 2004, 20:28:04
Post by: Wronski Feint on July 09, 2004, 20:28:04
Every generation thinks the world will end in there time, people thought 9/11 was the end of the world, and there the poles were foretold to have shifted about 20 times now. We do not knwo when we will end, or how so just give it up. It ends it ends.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Fat_Turkey on July 09, 2004, 23:14:05
Post by: Fat_Turkey on July 09, 2004, 23:14:05
I think a lot of people are getting rather sick of this topic. Demonic wars are as much a fantasy as people living in a world created by Squaresoft. It's a cool idea to play with. Yay! We finally get to use awesome powers like on TV and we get to be the heroes! Just one thing....NO.
The plain and simple truth is that most people base their "theories" on age-old calendars, and the christian bible, and finally their own dreams. What they forget is that dreams are almost always cryptic, and if they are not cryptic they are based on your fantasies or you are lucid.
What they also forget is that the Christian Bible isn't exactly trustworthy. It gives an entire book called Deuteronomy (spelling?) which is practically the book of punishments, then it goes off telling you to forgive everyone? For crying out loud, there are parts in that book that promote murder, rape, and pillaging. Jesus himself (apparantly, according to Mark or Matthew..one of them) criticised the Jews for not killing their bad kids like the Old Testament told them to. Fantastic. We're practically basing our conducts by some manipulative preachers. I doubt most Christians have even read the Bible or became Christians by their own free will.
Anyways. My point is that "predictions" are never accurate. Those that are accurate are less predictions but more a divination for a clearer insight to what you must call yourself to do in a tricky situation (for example, Runes or Tarrot cards).
Do not follow blindly after what others tell you is truth. Find the answers yourself.
There is no faith in which to hide
Even truth is filled with lies
Doubting Angels fall
To walk among the living.
~FT
The plain and simple truth is that most people base their "theories" on age-old calendars, and the christian bible, and finally their own dreams. What they forget is that dreams are almost always cryptic, and if they are not cryptic they are based on your fantasies or you are lucid.
What they also forget is that the Christian Bible isn't exactly trustworthy. It gives an entire book called Deuteronomy (spelling?) which is practically the book of punishments, then it goes off telling you to forgive everyone? For crying out loud, there are parts in that book that promote murder, rape, and pillaging. Jesus himself (apparantly, according to Mark or Matthew..one of them) criticised the Jews for not killing their bad kids like the Old Testament told them to. Fantastic. We're practically basing our conducts by some manipulative preachers. I doubt most Christians have even read the Bible or became Christians by their own free will.
Anyways. My point is that "predictions" are never accurate. Those that are accurate are less predictions but more a divination for a clearer insight to what you must call yourself to do in a tricky situation (for example, Runes or Tarrot cards).
Do not follow blindly after what others tell you is truth. Find the answers yourself.
There is no faith in which to hide
Even truth is filled with lies
Doubting Angels fall
To walk among the living.
~FT
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Wronski Feint on July 10, 2004, 22:55:42
Post by: Wronski Feint on July 10, 2004, 22:55:42
I agree. Yes there will be a demon war, you will be the chosen one to save humanity, you will get super powers. Its like watching buffy 24hrs in here.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Kerrblur on July 11, 2004, 12:11:10
Post by: Kerrblur on July 11, 2004, 12:11:10
HaH . . I'm sorry for the people who promote and party over a event called the "Demon War" lol. My oppinion on this basicly tells me if someone is foolish enough to even PROMOTE such a idea are weak minded. I wont explain this, You can figure it out, and find out what I might mean by this.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: RedDragon_GoldPheonix on September 23, 2004, 14:21:30
Post by: RedDragon_GoldPheonix on September 23, 2004, 14:21:30
ive got something to say on this demon war of ours......oops.....theirs.im having a bit of a crisis. i really dont know who i am what im here for and why im here. but i have this extreme urgent sensation to bring this "demon war" closer and faster. its as if i feel it would be more of a clean sweep more than a war. i preferably remain neutral in this war. i just need to identify what my purpose in this is. my spirit mother said she saw me at the end..........what about the rest of the star seed?
[8][}:)][?]
[8][}:)][?]
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Aileron on September 23, 2004, 21:18:59
Post by: Aileron on September 23, 2004, 21:18:59
although I have many different ideas as to which pertain to one perhaps bringing such a decisive and obviously "important" event closer to our current movement through time, I would rather someone of your caliber to work it out on their own.
Most of us dont really know why we are here or when our purpose shall unfold before us, but Ive realized lately that one takes control of their destiny when one takes control of their destiny.
So...good luck in your endevours, and just dont hurt yourself or anyone else please.[|)]
Most of us dont really know why we are here or when our purpose shall unfold before us, but Ive realized lately that one takes control of their destiny when one takes control of their destiny.
So...good luck in your endevours, and just dont hurt yourself or anyone else please.[|)]
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Gandalf on September 28, 2004, 11:58:42
Post by: Gandalf on September 28, 2004, 11:58:42
This whole demon war thing is so embarrasing... I actually feel embarrased for this board when I see topics like this here! And I certainly wouldnt boast to anyone that you read such crap!
The whole idea is based on a useless mis-mash of ideas... the date 2012 has been taken from Mayan mythology and calander which speaks of a 'new age' on this date, but certainly *nothing violent* like the christian vision of apocolypse... people from a christian back ground have simply grafted the horrific christian vision onto Mayan mythology, which is wrong...
Also the whole date of 2012 is very seriously under question and there is good evidence to suggest that it is a mis-translation and complete misunderstanding of mayan texts.
Secondly the whole 'demon war' idea comes from japanese manga and anime stories, dragon ball Z and other pop crud...hardly realistic (have you ever noticed that the loudest advocates on this board who peddle 'demon war' crap and 'chi-ball' bollocks always seem to have a silly anime name and sad manga picture.... unrelated? I don't think so!)
What do you get when you put all this together in the imagination of overly impressionable teenagers?
Answer: complete crap!
The situation is only made worse via spurious web sites which continue to peddle this twaddle to the gullable.
See, I am old enough to know better, all you teeny gullables think this is all new, but I have seen countless end of the world scenarios and dates come and go... the most hilarious was the Nostradamus 'July 1999' crap... and people like you were suckers for that just as you are suckers for this one.
AND I can *guarantee*, once 2012 has come and go, (just like 1999 and the millenium etc) the fixation will move on to some other significant date... and infinitum... ad nausium!
Ultimatly, what this whole issue reveals is that some people want to believe in such things so much because they are so depressed about their own lives; they wish that something would come along to change their dismal world for them... sorry, but that's somethnig you have to do yourself.
Douglas
The whole idea is based on a useless mis-mash of ideas... the date 2012 has been taken from Mayan mythology and calander which speaks of a 'new age' on this date, but certainly *nothing violent* like the christian vision of apocolypse... people from a christian back ground have simply grafted the horrific christian vision onto Mayan mythology, which is wrong...
Also the whole date of 2012 is very seriously under question and there is good evidence to suggest that it is a mis-translation and complete misunderstanding of mayan texts.
Secondly the whole 'demon war' idea comes from japanese manga and anime stories, dragon ball Z and other pop crud...hardly realistic (have you ever noticed that the loudest advocates on this board who peddle 'demon war' crap and 'chi-ball' bollocks always seem to have a silly anime name and sad manga picture.... unrelated? I don't think so!)
What do you get when you put all this together in the imagination of overly impressionable teenagers?
Answer: complete crap!
The situation is only made worse via spurious web sites which continue to peddle this twaddle to the gullable.
See, I am old enough to know better, all you teeny gullables think this is all new, but I have seen countless end of the world scenarios and dates come and go... the most hilarious was the Nostradamus 'July 1999' crap... and people like you were suckers for that just as you are suckers for this one.
AND I can *guarantee*, once 2012 has come and go, (just like 1999 and the millenium etc) the fixation will move on to some other significant date... and infinitum... ad nausium!
Ultimatly, what this whole issue reveals is that some people want to believe in such things so much because they are so depressed about their own lives; they wish that something would come along to change their dismal world for them... sorry, but that's somethnig you have to do yourself.
Douglas
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Gandalf on September 28, 2004, 12:29:10
Post by: Gandalf on September 28, 2004, 12:29:10
*yawn*
I couldnt agree more. People don't want to hear anything relating to common sense, they just want more crap. Will they ever learn? Perhaps one day, when they grow up!
Douglas
I couldnt agree more. People don't want to hear anything relating to common sense, they just want more crap. Will they ever learn? Perhaps one day, when they grow up!
Douglas
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Nay on September 28, 2004, 13:24:55
Post by: Nay on September 28, 2004, 13:24:55
*shouts to Gandalf*
RUN FOR COVER!!!!!!!!! [:D][:D]
P.S. couldn't agree more with you, but beware you are going to get a reaming..at least that is my personal experience when I uttered such things as you just did. [;)]
Nay [8D]
RUN FOR COVER!!!!!!!!! [:D][:D]
P.S. couldn't agree more with you, but beware you are going to get a reaming..at least that is my personal experience when I uttered such things as you just did. [;)]
Nay [8D]
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: open_mind on September 28, 2004, 13:58:11
Post by: open_mind on September 28, 2004, 13:58:11
all this about 2012 is simple.
If you belive then you shoud train and prepare as you see fitt, and dont bother others with it.
if you dont belive then shut upp about it, you got better things to think about.
If you belive then you shoud train and prepare as you see fitt, and dont bother others with it.
if you dont belive then shut upp about it, you got better things to think about.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Gandalf on September 28, 2004, 14:18:33
Post by: Gandalf on September 28, 2004, 14:18:33
you are right I know!
I guess I'm just finding it difficult to accept that there are people out there who *actually believe* things they have seen in anime movies and manga comics... The last shred of hope I had for humanity has run out... everyone else bale out while they can!
Douglas
I guess I'm just finding it difficult to accept that there are people out there who *actually believe* things they have seen in anime movies and manga comics... The last shred of hope I had for humanity has run out... everyone else bale out while they can!
Douglas
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Rastus on September 28, 2004, 14:38:06
Post by: Rastus on September 28, 2004, 14:38:06
Some people should perhaps re-read what is written. The end of time does not mean the end of the world.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Gandalf on September 28, 2004, 18:28:39
Post by: Gandalf on September 28, 2004, 18:28:39
yes, except the mayan prophesies concerning (what *might* refer to) 2012 are nothing to do with the 'end of time' or any violent disruptions. It only refers to the end of one cycle and the start of another; what at worst may be a non event, like the clock going from one day to another and at best, a 'phase shift' or raising of awareness, but again *nothing violent or involving people dying*.
The problem is caused by christians trying to incorporate their mad apocalyptic nightmare scenarios into the mayan cycle, which is completly wrong. Then we have a mish-mash of different beliefs. Then, once people start reading stories from anime and manga comics, we really start decending into a pit of sh*t.
If people actually started educating themselves about the facts, rather than reading any old crap then we might hear less about 'demon wars', 'chi-balls' and countless other crap that gullable teenies who have been watching too much dragon ball z or buffy, seem to think is fact.
Douglas
The problem is caused by christians trying to incorporate their mad apocalyptic nightmare scenarios into the mayan cycle, which is completly wrong. Then we have a mish-mash of different beliefs. Then, once people start reading stories from anime and manga comics, we really start decending into a pit of sh*t.
If people actually started educating themselves about the facts, rather than reading any old crap then we might hear less about 'demon wars', 'chi-balls' and countless other crap that gullable teenies who have been watching too much dragon ball z or buffy, seem to think is fact.
Douglas
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: cross_fire on September 29, 2004, 11:48:26
Post by: cross_fire on September 29, 2004, 11:48:26
i beg to difer....those"chi-balls" your are talking about have been a part of chinese and japanese culture for 1,000's of years. they used the "chi-ball" in a sense of kong jing, or empty force. so please watch your tongue. this 2012 war thing is also undetectable, because only precogs can see the future. and the only precog that said demons are coming in 2012 is , well....., come to think of it, there isn't one.[xx(]
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: 0 on September 29, 2004, 18:24:36
Post by: 0 on September 29, 2004, 18:24:36
okay, so is there anything relevant to this issue someone wants to bring up?
It seems to me that though this topic has been not only covered many times under different guises through both historical(or at least as close to history as many can come)and socially inept but culturally derived media/ animation, it should really only be discussed if someone has something really important to say.
Seeing as how most people from what I have read on here thus far, are either just debating the topic as realism and historical fact, there should be backing arguments, but there arent, and it seems that there wont be.
So I say drop this until someone has something vital to say. We all know whats happening in the world currently, and unless I see someone standing in Shanghai or somewhere in the world battling grotesque monsters in order to save our souls or throwing "Chi-balls," whether they are culturally/historically accurate or not, in mid-town New Hampshire at people, then this threa is rather pointless.
It seems to me that though this topic has been not only covered many times under different guises through both historical(or at least as close to history as many can come)and socially inept but culturally derived media/ animation, it should really only be discussed if someone has something really important to say.
Seeing as how most people from what I have read on here thus far, are either just debating the topic as realism and historical fact, there should be backing arguments, but there arent, and it seems that there wont be.
So I say drop this until someone has something vital to say. We all know whats happening in the world currently, and unless I see someone standing in Shanghai or somewhere in the world battling grotesque monsters in order to save our souls or throwing "Chi-balls," whether they are culturally/historically accurate or not, in mid-town New Hampshire at people, then this threa is rather pointless.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: 0 on September 29, 2004, 18:32:14
Post by: 0 on September 29, 2004, 18:32:14
btw gandalf, if you think the mayan date 2012 is incorrect I would like to hear the correct dates or recalculations since the earnest archeological findings show that the dates correspond nicely to the Gregorian calender as long as one can translate the numerical date to that of which is the mayan number 13.0.0.0.0.
what other date would it be I wonder?
Also since the date has actually as far as I know, not been in question, is concerned, the date the mayans, as far as Laman go, use in order to have determined both their astronomical and ecological uses is in fact quite accurate when corresponding to the date the equinox and solstice do occur in december, around the 21st, give or take, in 2012, when the planets and the milky way align to create an X or what many may observe is the tree of life, which is an abstract belief the mayans held highly within their religion and culture.
2012 is real, whether you want to associate it with prophecy or not. Perhaps nothing will change, but their will be an event, astronomically speaking.
what other date would it be I wonder?
Also since the date has actually as far as I know, not been in question, is concerned, the date the mayans, as far as Laman go, use in order to have determined both their astronomical and ecological uses is in fact quite accurate when corresponding to the date the equinox and solstice do occur in december, around the 21st, give or take, in 2012, when the planets and the milky way align to create an X or what many may observe is the tree of life, which is an abstract belief the mayans held highly within their religion and culture.
2012 is real, whether you want to associate it with prophecy or not. Perhaps nothing will change, but their will be an event, astronomically speaking.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Gandalf on September 30, 2004, 06:38:39
Post by: Gandalf on September 30, 2004, 06:38:39
yes, well my main beef is NOT with the astronomical date 2012 as such, although I still think its suspect, but the tedious assosiation with 'end of the world scenarios' which people like to assosiate with them. Whats annoying is that they ignore what the mayans have to say about it and replace it with apocalypse scenarios out of revelations, which distorts the whole idea.
Oh, and I would like to add that I stand by my last point about 'chi-balls' and other stuff posted posted mainly by anime fanatics (funnily enough):
Yes, I know that 'chi-balls' are a real facet of eastern practice but not in the over the top fashion of anime and manga films.
That is fantasy, you do not get people firing glowing balls of energy at eachother or battling demons in the middle of the street.
'Chi-balls' are subtle energy techniques.. you do not get 'special effects' coming with them.
In fact, they are completely unlike the way over the top depictions of anime and manga, which is of course FANTASY!
This may be stating the obvious but it never fails to amaze me how many people read or watch these things and think its real, just as depicted..
whats worse is that they then boast of how they themselves are able to create glowing balls of energy etc... duh.. its a visualisation technique, you dont actually see it!
Battling demons in the street? Dream on kiddies!
Dragon ball z is not real, just as the cheesy demons in buffy are not real... its like this... film/manga=fantasy....looking out the window=reality.....
fantasy...reality.... gedit?
While I appreciate the urge that motivates all such 'end of the world scenarios' ie the disatisfaction with a persons own life, and the desire for something big to come along and shake it up for them, ultimatly, in order to change your own life, you have to do that yourself, not rely on 'apocalypses' or 'demon wars' to do it for you.
Douglas
Oh, and I would like to add that I stand by my last point about 'chi-balls' and other stuff posted posted mainly by anime fanatics (funnily enough):
Yes, I know that 'chi-balls' are a real facet of eastern practice but not in the over the top fashion of anime and manga films.
That is fantasy, you do not get people firing glowing balls of energy at eachother or battling demons in the middle of the street.
'Chi-balls' are subtle energy techniques.. you do not get 'special effects' coming with them.
In fact, they are completely unlike the way over the top depictions of anime and manga, which is of course FANTASY!
This may be stating the obvious but it never fails to amaze me how many people read or watch these things and think its real, just as depicted..
whats worse is that they then boast of how they themselves are able to create glowing balls of energy etc... duh.. its a visualisation technique, you dont actually see it!
Battling demons in the street? Dream on kiddies!
Dragon ball z is not real, just as the cheesy demons in buffy are not real... its like this... film/manga=fantasy....looking out the window=reality.....
fantasy...reality.... gedit?
While I appreciate the urge that motivates all such 'end of the world scenarios' ie the disatisfaction with a persons own life, and the desire for something big to come along and shake it up for them, ultimatly, in order to change your own life, you have to do that yourself, not rely on 'apocalypses' or 'demon wars' to do it for you.
Douglas
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: 0 on September 30, 2004, 17:17:21
Post by: 0 on September 30, 2004, 17:17:21
I think Gandalf was telling people not to go overboard when using their imagination.
Its one thing for children to be outside with each other using their creative outlets for play, its an entirely different scenario to take it seriously enough that you try and convince others, including yourself, that certain things which are ficticious, that they are real things.
My opinion is that anything we can imagine, we can create.
But I dont think people inflating their egos telling one another that they are practicing their Chi-ball/energy ball/ chocalate salty ball whatever arts so that they survive the end of the world in 2012 is entirely the right way to approach reality.
which, btw gandalf, I did agree most people do tend to throw too much paranoia and IMAGINATION into certain myths/prophecies, especially when concerning the mayan civilization. Most people dont seem to realize the majority of their astronomical charting was in fact for their agricultural resources, and not believing in any case the world would end on their calander date.
To them it seemed to just be the recycling of time in a way. The beginning coming once again rather than any end for the world.
Also I keep seeing people posting the statement that if you dont like the thread you shouldnt post.
I think that too goes without saying, but nobody here is saying they dont like the thread.
What I was saying is that people are just rehashing ideas over and over again without really stemming anything new. This topic has been brought up in a few other forum areas here but it is either filled with people who are just ranting or fretting or the skeptics or the mediators who are trying to reclaim some sense of harmony or calm.
Im gonna keep reading them and posting how I see fit attempting to not offend anyone in the process, and if I dont want to post, I wont.
Eventually Im looking forward to reading a topic that has potentially interesting information regarding this area of discussion, and Ill definately be posting on that as well. Just as everyone else 8)
Its one thing for children to be outside with each other using their creative outlets for play, its an entirely different scenario to take it seriously enough that you try and convince others, including yourself, that certain things which are ficticious, that they are real things.
My opinion is that anything we can imagine, we can create.
But I dont think people inflating their egos telling one another that they are practicing their Chi-ball/energy ball/ chocalate salty ball whatever arts so that they survive the end of the world in 2012 is entirely the right way to approach reality.
which, btw gandalf, I did agree most people do tend to throw too much paranoia and IMAGINATION into certain myths/prophecies, especially when concerning the mayan civilization. Most people dont seem to realize the majority of their astronomical charting was in fact for their agricultural resources, and not believing in any case the world would end on their calander date.
To them it seemed to just be the recycling of time in a way. The beginning coming once again rather than any end for the world.
Also I keep seeing people posting the statement that if you dont like the thread you shouldnt post.
I think that too goes without saying, but nobody here is saying they dont like the thread.
What I was saying is that people are just rehashing ideas over and over again without really stemming anything new. This topic has been brought up in a few other forum areas here but it is either filled with people who are just ranting or fretting or the skeptics or the mediators who are trying to reclaim some sense of harmony or calm.
Im gonna keep reading them and posting how I see fit attempting to not offend anyone in the process, and if I dont want to post, I wont.
Eventually Im looking forward to reading a topic that has potentially interesting information regarding this area of discussion, and Ill definately be posting on that as well. Just as everyone else 8)
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: 0 on October 01, 2004, 01:10:55
Post by: 0 on October 01, 2004, 01:10:55
People have the right to their opinions dont they?
I was personally offering mine, and people dont have to take it. Its their choice completely.
I get a little tired of this subject though because its bounced around, but, c'mon, lets face facts. I know there are plenty of people who put stock into the topic, but in realistic terms, even divinely, "demon wars" seems waaaaay to theatrical/fantasy/childish even depending on how the conversation is going.
(btw, this is once again my opinion so let that be noted that nobody has to listen to my BS, but they can and are welcome to, and can comment on it as they feel free for this is a public forum)
Once again as well circling what Gandalf was saying, people put too much apocolypta into the mix when discussing 2012. This tends to reveal peoples lack of knowledge regarding the matter and their imagination running away from them.
Im not saying I have all the knowledge there is on the matter as well, but I have studied it in depth enough to know the realistic backgrounds and some mythology behind the culture.
Its dangerous even at times to mix paranoid delusions with historical and cultural mythos and belief. It can create offensive situations as well as volatile movements towards the creation of said delusion.
But, once more, as I said, this is my own opinion and if you choose to continue discussing, in serious format, the potential for demons to wage war against humanity in 2012, that is your choice.
[:D]
I was personally offering mine, and people dont have to take it. Its their choice completely.
I get a little tired of this subject though because its bounced around, but, c'mon, lets face facts. I know there are plenty of people who put stock into the topic, but in realistic terms, even divinely, "demon wars" seems waaaaay to theatrical/fantasy/childish even depending on how the conversation is going.
(btw, this is once again my opinion so let that be noted that nobody has to listen to my BS, but they can and are welcome to, and can comment on it as they feel free for this is a public forum)
Once again as well circling what Gandalf was saying, people put too much apocolypta into the mix when discussing 2012. This tends to reveal peoples lack of knowledge regarding the matter and their imagination running away from them.
Im not saying I have all the knowledge there is on the matter as well, but I have studied it in depth enough to know the realistic backgrounds and some mythology behind the culture.
Its dangerous even at times to mix paranoid delusions with historical and cultural mythos and belief. It can create offensive situations as well as volatile movements towards the creation of said delusion.
But, once more, as I said, this is my own opinion and if you choose to continue discussing, in serious format, the potential for demons to wage war against humanity in 2012, that is your choice.
[:D]
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Gandalf on October 01, 2004, 02:50:17
Post by: Gandalf on October 01, 2004, 02:50:17
I agree with 'O' on this one but I'll leave you all to get on with it as you see fit.
btw Runlola, I couldnt help notice your anime/manga picture [;)]
Douglas
btw Runlola, I couldnt help notice your anime/manga picture [;)]
Douglas
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Wronski Feint on October 03, 2004, 09:15:48
Post by: Wronski Feint on October 03, 2004, 09:15:48
well its going to end somtime. nothing lasts forever, even the end.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: Chimerae on October 03, 2004, 09:55:31
Post by: Chimerae on October 03, 2004, 09:55:31
hello every one can someone please tell me what you think is going to happen in 2012 like if demons are going to make war on this planet or that there is nothing to worry about because nothings going to happen. would you please tell me your thoughts.
Wanted to see if I could answer your question "what you think. . ." I'm sorry if this has been covered, but I just don't have it in me to read through all the replies that bounce off like tangents. So this may be old news.
I have no source for this except my own feel and guides oblique coaching. No reference material backs me up. However, you asked for OPIONIONS, so for what it's worth.
The demons are here already. I don't know if they've always been here or not. but the population density has certainly increased.
Not all of what people call demons are the incredibly evil whatsits of Christian mythology. Lots of what get smacked with that label are just a whole variety of spirits that do not feel that humans are the top of the food chain. These sorts of non evil spirits are also increasing in population density. And they're increasingly cranky and motivated to act out their crankiness overtly, so it kind of blurs the perceptual lines.
Unlike lots of people here, I have had to unfortunately conclude that the stuff of demons that the Christians talk about that I was ABSOULUTELY POSITIVE was fantasy, do rarely exist. I so hope I'm wrong and it was just a lack of evolution on my part but . . . thems NASTY.
Good news though, we're already in the midst of the changes that 2011 is all about. (Yep, I feel like it's 2011, not 2012) No sense in worrying about 2011, 'cause you're already engaged in the change just cause you're here now and aware.
I have the strongest sense that there's a very specific split in human consciousness right now. What looks like good and bad has nothing to do with the real sort -- it's all in the heart and mind and ????. You're either on path or you're off, and it doesn't really matter past that. Everybodys paths right now head off into weird territory -- and it's gonna get weirder -- because the whole point right now is the clarification of Choice that's getting us all ready for some kind of breakthrough. I don't know what the breakthrough will look like just that the thing is to pay attention to what's important and only you can know what that is -- even though other people can help you to explore it.
It's getting harder and harder to sit on the fence, but following other people -- no matter how good or holy they are -- just gets you into trouble.
As far what sounds to me like a some fear about demons coming -- think of this -- if you are straight with your soul and your relationship with God, whatever comes can only help you. If what's coming is your current worst nightmare (I don't think it is) then, if you're straight with your soul, even that nightmare will just move you closer to your perfect relationship with the divine. And if you're a little off your path, even demons can be part of what sends you to a true and deeper relationship with the "God of your understanding."
I don't know why but I think what's coming will be hell for some of us and heaven for others -- and that difference could be for two people standing side by side.
A (somewhat heretical) thought for your reflection: Consider the consequences if God is COMPETENT. WHAT IF all you have to do is relax and do what's yours to do . . . and WHAT IF God is prepared to sort everything out and make it as easy as possible for you? Just don't listen too seriously to anyone or anything else.
Especially humans.
Especially me.
Oh, yeah . . . for no reason I can explain, I think the drama and change will NOT be political, will NOT be war (though that might be a side effect) and will NOT be demonic. I think what's coming will astonish us all. Maybe earth changes . . . that's my best match for what I sense . . . and yet I KNOW I'm wrong.
Wanted to see if I could answer your question "what you think. . ." I'm sorry if this has been covered, but I just don't have it in me to read through all the replies that bounce off like tangents. So this may be old news.
I have no source for this except my own feel and guides oblique coaching. No reference material backs me up. However, you asked for OPIONIONS, so for what it's worth.
The demons are here already. I don't know if they've always been here or not. but the population density has certainly increased.
Not all of what people call demons are the incredibly evil whatsits of Christian mythology. Lots of what get smacked with that label are just a whole variety of spirits that do not feel that humans are the top of the food chain. These sorts of non evil spirits are also increasing in population density. And they're increasingly cranky and motivated to act out their crankiness overtly, so it kind of blurs the perceptual lines.
Unlike lots of people here, I have had to unfortunately conclude that the stuff of demons that the Christians talk about that I was ABSOULUTELY POSITIVE was fantasy, do rarely exist. I so hope I'm wrong and it was just a lack of evolution on my part but . . . thems NASTY.
Good news though, we're already in the midst of the changes that 2011 is all about. (Yep, I feel like it's 2011, not 2012) No sense in worrying about 2011, 'cause you're already engaged in the change just cause you're here now and aware.
I have the strongest sense that there's a very specific split in human consciousness right now. What looks like good and bad has nothing to do with the real sort -- it's all in the heart and mind and ????. You're either on path or you're off, and it doesn't really matter past that. Everybodys paths right now head off into weird territory -- and it's gonna get weirder -- because the whole point right now is the clarification of Choice that's getting us all ready for some kind of breakthrough. I don't know what the breakthrough will look like just that the thing is to pay attention to what's important and only you can know what that is -- even though other people can help you to explore it.
It's getting harder and harder to sit on the fence, but following other people -- no matter how good or holy they are -- just gets you into trouble.
As far what sounds to me like a some fear about demons coming -- think of this -- if you are straight with your soul and your relationship with God, whatever comes can only help you. If what's coming is your current worst nightmare (I don't think it is) then, if you're straight with your soul, even that nightmare will just move you closer to your perfect relationship with the divine. And if you're a little off your path, even demons can be part of what sends you to a true and deeper relationship with the "God of your understanding."
I don't know why but I think what's coming will be hell for some of us and heaven for others -- and that difference could be for two people standing side by side.
A (somewhat heretical) thought for your reflection: Consider the consequences if God is COMPETENT. WHAT IF all you have to do is relax and do what's yours to do . . . and WHAT IF God is prepared to sort everything out and make it as easy as possible for you? Just don't listen too seriously to anyone or anything else.
Especially humans.
Especially me.
Oh, yeah . . . for no reason I can explain, I think the drama and change will NOT be political, will NOT be war (though that might be a side effect) and will NOT be demonic. I think what's coming will astonish us all. Maybe earth changes . . . that's my best match for what I sense . . . and yet I KNOW I'm wrong.
Title: in 2012 demons are coming?
Post by: shenron_2012 on October 23, 2003, 12:55:26
Post by: shenron_2012 on October 23, 2003, 12:55:26
hello every one can someone please tell me what you think is going to happen in 2012 like if demons are going to make war on this planet or that there is nothing to worry about because nothings going to happen. would you please tell me your thoughts.