I must leave the AP for several months...

[Nick]

Beth,

You are an excellent moderator and have done a superb job by my account. Writing a book is something I haven't done but imagine it to be both difficult and a time consuming enterprise. All the very best to you in your endeavor. You will be greatly missed here, so please stop by when you can.


Warm regards,

[GhostRider]

Beth, good luck and just to let you know, thanks to you and Gandalf, you've opened up lots of avenues for me to explore historically.  And to a amateur history buff like myself, that's the sweetest gift you can give.  So thankyou Beth and good luck on your new book.  Be sure to save an autographed copy for me when you're done!

Best Wishes & Blessings~ Kevin

[RJA]

Beth,

I only found out about this site a month ago, but have enjoyed your posts.  At the risk of sounding prosaic, let it be said that your educated, informed and well-written posts have been beacons of light for the spiritual seeker.

Best of luck on your book! []

[wisp]

I second what RJA said. Even though you won't be a moderator, surely you can find the time to check back and contribute hopefully.

I happy for you getting started on your book. I know it's going to be a good one. It sounds like an important, yet fun project.

[Passionate-fool]

Greetings Beth,

As I have followed these posts over the past couple of months I have come to greatly respect your passionate research of the bible.  I do not come even close to believing as you do, but anyone who dedicates themselves so fully to understanding scripture has my deepest respect.  Good luck and I pray that you will be always in the Spirit of Truth.

God bless,

PF

P.S. Milk IS literal.  Meat IS Spirit.  The Meat is hard to swallow without the Milk and the Milk is a prime source for Calcium which nourishes your bones(which are the foundation for your body).  Meat is the prime source for Protein which nourishes your muscles and it is your muscles that give your bones Power.  When we "grow" we start eating of the Meat, but that does not negate the NEED for the Milk.  I pray for your discernment.

[Beth]

PF,

I don't believe I ever said that "milk" was not necessary, in fact, when you think about this as it pertains to what I am saying about scripture--without the "milk or the literal" there would be no "meat or spirit." Both come from the same "cow" and each is given according to a person's ability to digest it.  

quote:1 Corinthians 3:31Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly--mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly.

Hebrews 5: 11We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

The method of interpretation that I offer here PF is NOT MINE--nor is it of my design--it is the same method that was used before, during, and after the first century. During the NT period, the allegorical interpretive method was NEW to those Jews that had literalized the people and events of the OT--just as has happened once again with the NT. But if you read the NT carefully, Paul did his level best to teach people that this was not the case, and that the "spirit" of the law should be followed rather than the "letter of the Law." The meaning of the Greek word "gospel" is "good news" or "NEW news that is good."  

Other than Paul, 1st, 2nd and 3rd century scholars such as Philo, Clement and Origen, respectively, also taught the same thing.  When the church became the official religion of the Roman Empire in the 4th century, only ONE interpretation was adopted and made "official" thus once again, the LETTER OF THE LAW became the accepted interpretation, and the SPIRIT OF THE LAW was negated. In essence, the allegorical interpretative method then died out.  

The literal level of scripture was also often referred to as the "garment" which covered the "glory of scripture." In general literary terms this means--without the surface level of story--there would be no "garment" for the allegorical which was the glory of scripture.  Did Jesus not say in the Gospels:    

quote:21"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse."  

The actions of the councils during the reign of Constantine, "sewed a new patch" on to an old garment. The "new piece" did indeed "pull away from the old" and Christianity and Judaism became virtually separate religions. The only thing they had in common was biblical scripture.  The fact that Jesus and all his disciples were all Jews was even relegated to non-importance and instead, they became more the saviors of the Gentile rather than the Jew.  

PF--there is no easy way to accept all of what I say, but as for my "discernment" -- I have struggled and prayed all of my life, and studied very diligently to finally understand as much as I do.  I also know for a fact, that there is a great deal more, above and beyond this, that I must one day also try to understand, so I do appreciate your prayers. It is my constant prayer as well.

Peace,
Beth

[Mustardseed]

Dear Beth
I wish you well with your book. We have at times been at odds but I have learned things from you never the less. You seem to think you have found some answers and I respect that, maybe you have found some but .....maybe you have not found them all!!!. Remember to point people to the divine and admit to all your readers that ....you do not know!!!, but believe these things to be so. Let it be said of you: "she did what she could". Be faithful to the truth that has been revealed to you but be careful ¨not to assume why and how it all hangs together. Remember "God is in heaven and you are on earth, and the foolishness of God is wiser than men". I will be having you in my thoughts for good and send you my prayers, till you are back.

Regards Mustardseed

[Tenacious]

Beth,

Thank you for all of your wonderful comments.  I must admit, I am going to miss your topics and replys!  I wish you luck on your book!

By the way: what is it about, and can I have a signed copy? []

-Your Fan-

[Passionate-fool]

HEBREWS!!!!  thats where that text is!!!!  hehe been trying to find that for the past couple of days, thanks.  []

I totally agree with you Beth.  You would probably be surprised at the similarity with which I look at the bible, but there is a difference between you and I in my mind.  I take as my first "key" of understanding as the literal and actual events that take place as Truth.  It is my "foundation" which I base all other understanding upon.  I am not just a spiritual creature, but also a material creature.  If I were to write a book about my life and if someone were to read it.  I am quite sure that many many allegorical lessons and truths could be found within the text.  I believe this could apply to anyone.  But, despite the fact that allegory would be quite apparent to anyone with a discerning mind it would not make the actual events of my life fiction.  Even though I have had many super-natural events that have taken place in my life that would seem to be impossible, unlikely, or even un-needed.  they still took place and would need to be accepted to get the FULL picture of the lessons that my life could show someone.  It is this concept that I also apply to the bible.

quote:I don't believe I ever said that "milk" was not necessary, in fact, when you think about this as it pertains to what I am saying about scripture--without the "milk or the literal" there would be no "meat or spirit." Both come from the same "cow" and each is given according to a person's ability to digest it.

This statement does confuse me a bit.  I understand exactly what it is you are saying and am going to have to steal this wording of the analogy from ya if you don't mind [].  What I do not understand is that if you know the "milk" is neccesary, for without it we could not have the "meat", how can you then relegate it to fiction?  For fiction is just that, fiction.  Which now makes it not real, so then it cannot be literal.  So now, in my mind, you have set up a contradiction in your beliefs.  Whenever I see contradictions when attempting to understand God's will I know to be careful.  God never contradicts Himself.

quote:hebrews 6  1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation(milk)of repentance(confession by mouth;literal act) from dead works, and of faith toward God(Confession by mouth;literal act), 2of the doctrine of baptisms(Baptism by water;literal act), and of laying on of hands(self explanitory;literal act), and of resurrection of the dead(the dead becoming alive;literal act), and of eternal judgment(to judge you must commit an act;literal act).

and later in verse 9

quote:6:9 but, beloved, we are persuaded better things(meat) of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

It seems to me that Paul here is equating salvation to be amongst the "milk" concepts and that the "meat" concepts he wants to introduce to the laity go hand in hand with the "milk".  Paul also speaks of the power of God to save is thru simplicity.

Also, sorry, could only find my KJV bible right now [].

quote:The method of interpretation that I offer here PF is NOT MINE--nor is it of my design--it is the same method that was used before, during, and after the first century. During the NT period, the allegorical interpretive method was NEW to those Jews that had literalized the people and events of the OT--just as has happened once again with the NT

I understand that it is not yours Beth.  I have known that from the beginning.  Jesus Himself uses metaphors and allegory.  It would follow that His followers would also use this.

quote:But if you read the NT carefully, Paul did his level best to teach people that this was not the case, and that the "spirit" of the law should be followed rather than the "letter of the Law." The meaning of the Greek word "gospel" is "good news" or "NEW news that is good."

I am still somewhat new to my study of the bible, but Paul is the apostle that speaks most elequently to my heart.  I have read most of his epistles carefully and I believe you have the definition of the good news partially right.  He does say that we need to be in the spirit of the law.  On that you hit the nail on the head, but the other half of that (which almost the entirity of Romans is about) is that the only way that we CAN follow the spirit of the law is by faith in Christ that thru His grace we are saved.  You can only have faith in somthing that is real.  You can't have faith in an ideal.  Only a real personage can offer you somthing.  Especially somthing such as grace.  An ideal can not.  It is static and unable to do anything other than what a person assigns it.  Once you have attained the spirit of the law though you follow the "letter" as though it were second nature.

quote:1 Corinthians 3:10-11, 10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation(="milk"=literal), and another buildeth theron.  But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation(="milk"=literal) can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Dearest beloved Beth, I understand that what i'm doing here is challenging the very core of what you believe.  I do not know if even you will find the challenge up to your standards, but I hope and pray that the light given unto me will be expressed well enough that maybe you will see somthing of the above and beyond that you know you will one day need to learn.

Wishing you a most blessed day,

PF

[Passionate-fool]

hehe WHOOPS,  messed up on the size of the quotes.....

MY BAD!!!![:O]

[Passionate-fool]

Then again....maybe God wanted His holy word in bold[]

[Beth]

[:X]Bye everybody![:X]

Peace,
Beth [8D]

[Passionate-fool]

Dear Beath,
Apparently my four hours of contemplation and sincere questioning wasn't up to your standards and doesn't deserve a response.  That is fine, but saddens me none-the-less.  I have always enjoyed reading your responses and was always excited to see what you have gotten from your intense studying even though I disagree with your premises most of the time.  They have challenged my way of thinking and helped me to look at things from a different perspective and while I may not have taken exactly what you wanted me to take from your writings.  I still have taken away a great deal and has made my study of the bible more exciting.  Take care.

May the blessings of Christ Rain upon you.

Passionate-fool.

[Beth]

Passionate Fool,

I truly apologize for not responding to your post.  I have been really busy the last few days, and I am having a hard time keeping up.

I just made another post to the "Is there any Evidence" thread where I think some of it will address your post here.  On the "milk and meat" it can speak to you however it does.  If this is what it means to you, and it makes sense to you--then the metaphors have done their job!  

On your use of the word "ideal" to designate "Christ"--I don't think that "Christ" is just an "ideal."  My goodness, in my life, Christ is VERY REAL.  I truly "believe" that astral entities do exist, that they are very real, and they do communicate with us on this plane.  They are just on a plane that we cannot quite "wrap our heads around."  And yes, just like us here, some of these entities are a great deal more evolved than others.  

I have to get ready for work now, but I will check again late tonight to see if you have any other questions or comments for now.  I will be back to the AP, it will probably just be several months before I can do so.  Thank you very much for your interest, and once again, my apologies.

Peace, []
Beth

p.s. Thanks--I Pray for that Rain everyday...

[wisp]

quote:If I were to write a book about my life and if someone were to read it. I am quite sure that many many allegorical lessons and truths could be found within the text. I believe this could apply to anyone. But, despite the fact that allegory would be quite apparent to anyone with a discerning mind it would not make the actual events of my life fiction. Even though I have had many super-natural events that have taken place in my life that would seem to be impossible, unlikely, or even un-needed. they still took place and would need to be accepted to get the FULL picture of the lessons that my life could show someone. It is this concept that I also apply to the bible.

Passionate-fool, This is very profound. Thanks for sharing. This is something hard to put into words, but yet you did!
I'm discovering all the things we don't understand will come to our understanding. It's so exciting. And so worth the journey.

[Beth]

Hello Everyone!

I am taking a sabbatical from the AP for several months.  I must begin writing my book in earnest as I feel the "labor pains" coming on.  Since my book will require my undivided attention, I know that I cannot adequately moderate the religion forums as I have in the past.  When I get a good rough draft written, I will be more than glad to come back as my time allows.

In the meantime, there are other moderators and members that are contributing in much the same way that I would.  The discussions will of course continue and before long you will probably even forget who I am!

I will be around for several more days in case anyone has any particular questions.  Let's see—it is now Tuesday—how about if I make my last check on Sunday evening?  

After that, keep exploring the power of the divine realm and continue to discuss all that we think we know about God!!  Keep it clean!!!

Peace, []
Beth