islam and being rejected socially

[enes]

hi,
I was born into a  muslim family
so I was taught the dogma and doctrin of islam
I hated  it since aged 8
now I know the truth
I must say that I am blind
I was also forced to go to a school where islamist extremists go
and where many advanced brainwashing techniques take place
since I live in a muslim country if I express my opinions I would socially be rejected by my family
and be an outcast all around my country
since I was blind from birth I have no idea how to visualize and meditate
and so I can't recieve  guidence from my higher s elf etc
I apologize for my spelling
after this point I seek   advice
I have read the turkish translation of the quran and have come to see how barbaric it is   
so any help would be grately   appriciated

[CFTraveler]

First of all, hi enes.
It is very sad to feel socially isolated in their culture- many people here believe in God, not in an objectified form but as a force, an expression of Love.  If you look at the Quran in a mystical way, you can see the seed of this, and I think perhaps this is what you should focus on, and not the 'rules' and 'regulations' that always are the tool of organized religion- a social control tool.
If you want to do some 'visualizing', that is, some meditation, you can use tactile awareness, which does not use 'vision' at all, to help you with focussing.  Tell me, what is your goal?

[enes]

hi,
I want to do energy work, achieve astral projection and contact my higher self
I tried some forms of energy work however my chakras wouldn't respond to me

[CFTraveler]

Have you tried Tactile imaging?  Also Known as NEW?

[enes]

hi,
I think so
I did some of the starter exercises in robert bruce's obe book astral dynamics
so about religeon
did people misenterpret the quran and other holy books;?
or were these religeons made to cause suffering etc

[Killa Rican]

hi,
I think so
I did some of the starter exercises in robert bruce's obe book astral dynamics
so about religeon
did people misenterpret the quran and other holy books;?
or were these religeons made to cause suffering etc

Well...If you believe religions aren't entirely man-made, and man did in fact get "inspired" or channelled certain beings, then no... Religion is working exactly how it's intended lol. What's written down is what is being taught from them to us.

It's debatable though as there is evidence that over century's that the original text were altered or changed. How much was changed, who knows.

[CFTraveler]

so about religeon
did people misenterpret the quran and other holy books;?

IMO neither.
Someone wiser than me said that all religions were started by people that had mystical experiences, and their followers, instead of trying to have their own, instead tried to imitate how the original founders did them, and soon, religion became either about the instructions (control) or worship (of the founder), and not about having the experience individually.

or were these religeons made to cause suffering etc

I don't think religions were ever meant to cause suffering- what causes suffering is the desire for control, and any system of ideology can be used for control, and religion is one of those ideologies.  For example, communism, an ideology, was used for complete control and dissolution of even the idea of the individual, and caused much suffering.  Yet it was not religious.
When people get together and believe intensely in an ideology, some can use this fervor it to control others, and once you have that, suffering is sure to follow.
Anyway, that's what I believe.

[enes]

hi,
what parts of the holy texts were changed?

[Killa Rican]

hi,
what parts of the holy texts were changed?

Well It's known a lot of religious text were changed or altered, mostly new testament from what I understand. I havent really looked enough into the Quran to suspect it's anything other then "original" authenticity anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

But many Muslims do claim and strongly believe it's the only "word of god" that has never been corrupted by mans hand, and that's why it will remain as "Gods last message to mankind".

It's Holy And Sacred to them because it's believed to be the only piece of written material on this earth that is 100% god inspiring.

[enes]

hi,
so, the quran has a new version?
I never knew that
I always thought there was only 1 quran

[Killa Rican]

hi,
so, the quran has a new version?
I never knew that
I always thought there was only 1 quran

No no I'm speaking of other religions and ancient texts. It is mentioned in the Quran that Allah has sent about 124,000 messengers and prophets across this globe during different times and communities.

Only 26 are mentioned by name in the Quran. Each prophet directed a message to a different group of people, and thus would preach Islam in accordance with the times. So it's believed by some Muslim scholars that many religions or spirituality may be synonymous with Islam if those beliefs preached about the concept of "One God" and "Sin". The Torah given to Moses; the Psalms given to David; and the Gospel given to Jesus those beliefs are "out-dated" and are "corrupted" towards Islam's perspective.

Mohammad is thought to be the last and greatest messenger from God to mankind. That's why it cant be "corrupted", otherwise there would need to be a new "Prophet" to set things right.

[Everlasting]

The quran is certainly confusing, it breeds violence and murder. It's probably the most dangerous book around these days.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
I hope you have understood it when you read it. Its open to misinterpretation like most religious texts. I've met many who share this religion and even they argue on its meanings.

[enes]

so how did the quran really come about
I mean
in one part it talks about how the nonbelievers will burn forever in hell and in another part it talks about how much allah is merciful

[Killa Rican]

Actually from what I'm aware, Islam is different from Christianity in the sense that they don't believe Hell is a final destination for Eternity. They believe that Hell is only temporary.

 They believe sinners will have to undergo punishment till they pay for the sins committed by them. After that they will be freed from hell and brought to paradise.

While Jewish people don't even believe in hell, they believe in "Eternal Poverty".

Also the Gnostic Gospel "Apocalypse of Peter" which was never added to the biblical canon, there's a reference of God telling peter a "secret" that hell is not eternal. You will see why this was not added to canon lol.

A highly contentious section which explains that in the end God will save all sinners from their plight in Hell:

   "My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away, ... It is because of them that have believed in me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men... "[1][2][3]

Thus, sinners will finally be saved by the prayers of those in heaven. Peter then orders his son Clement not to speak of this revelation since God had told Peter to keep it secret:

   [and God said]"... thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin."

Buddhist version of hell "Naraka" is not an eternal place either. Because they don't believe people are sent to naraka because of divine judgment. One is born into naraka as a direct result of his or her karma accumulated and they reside in this realm for a short period of time until there karma has been exhausted. When the karma is used up they will be reborn into a higher realm.

So...many cultures and spiritual paths have there own versions of hells. It seems to me people are channeling an aspect of the "lower" realms, and they cant full comprehend what they are receiving. They either assume people come across these places in there journey in the afterlife, or they are being told(lies, or intimidation through fear tactics) from higher beings, that they will end up in these places when they die. Probably a mixture of both. I suspect the  lower realms do in fact exist, but they don't serve the purpose people fear or think they do.

[CFTraveler]

Actually from what I'm aware, Islam is different from Christianity in the sense that they don't believe Hell is a final destination for Eternity. They believe that Hell is only temporary.

The idea of Hell as permanent is falling into disfavor amongst many sects- in the Catholic church that my nephews go to, they now say that Hell isn't permanent (dunno if this is a 'policy' change, or it's the 'flavor of the day' there) and in the Christian church I used to go to Hell was never considered objectively real- it was more a state of 'feeling dissociated from God'.  I live in a community that is very close to the Jehovah Witness' main temple, and I sometimes get their literature.  Just a couple of years ago I was (pleasantly) surprised to see that they were claiming not to believe in hell either, as a 'place' you go to in the afterlife.
So, it's not so black-and white.

[Karas]

I live in a community that is very close to the Jehovah Witness' main temple, and I sometimes get their literature.  Just a couple of years ago I was (pleasantly) surprised to see that they were claiming not to believe in hell either, as a 'place' you go to in the afterlife.
So, it's not so black-and white.

What they belive is worst then hell.... With them it's bye bye consciousness forever and belive there's no afterlife. They think we are meat and bones and if you wana live forever you must join there cult and hopfuly there god will save you. My mum is one .

[Killa Rican]

The idea of Hell as permanent is falling into disfavor amongst many sects- in the Catholic church that my nephews go to, they now say that Hell isn't permanent (dunno if this is a 'policy' change, or it's the 'flavor of the day' there) and in the Christian church I used to go to Hell was never considered objectively real- it was more a state of 'feeling dissociated from God'.  I live in a community that is very close to the Jehovah Witness' main temple, and I sometimes get their literature.  Just a couple of years ago I was (pleasantly) surprised to see that they were claiming not to believe in hell either, as a 'place' you go to in the afterlife.
So, it's not so black-and white.

Haha, "Flavor of the month" I can see that happening.

Yes it can be argued that Hell and Heaven are "states of mind", akin to what people under the Ba'hai faith subscribe to. The closer you are to "God"(The source) is what "heaven" is, The farther away you are from the source, is "Hell".

I have a suspicion however that some people have different inborn spiritual natures. Like they say "Like attracts like" in the astral. Whether they be Theistic Satanists, Necromancers, or people attracted to the darkness, they are resonating well with there own human nature and spiritual nature. I know some people like that, they are spiritual and are actually addicted to having nightmares as they receive a "high" off it. The adrenaline, the feelings of oppression, succumbing to "darkness" etc. They don't get frightened, nor have feelings of terror or damnation  by these altered states of mind one bit, they actually openly welcome it and endorse it, no matter how grotesque or unsettling it appears to them, they love it. They as well have an entirely different moral compass from the average well meaning human being, and dont get disturbed or phased by things so easily lol.

So whether or not "Hell" objectively exists under the traditional interpretation by many spiritual faiths, not every person finds them-self "meant" for seeking divinity. It's just not in there nature to do so.

What they belive is worst then hell.... With them it's bye bye consciousness forever and belive there's no afterlife. They think we are meat and bones and if you wana live forever you must join there cult and hopfuly there god will save you. My mum is one .

Oh, it's not that bad. Actually there being a traditional hell is a thousand times worse then there being no afterlife. Of course I find it impossible for consciousness to simply "cease" to exist permantly. But the impression of non-existence isn't so bad if you try to think far back before you were incarnated into this life.

[CFTraveler]

What they belive is worst then hell.... With them it's bye bye consciousness forever and belive there's no afterlife. They think we are meat and bones and if you wana live forever you must join there cult and hopfuly there god will save you. My mum is one .

I have a couple of friends who also are JW's, and some of them don't believe what the literature says, so I don't know if there is a sub-movement within the group- but I did find it interesting.

[CFTraveler]

I have a suspicion however that some people have different inborn spiritual natures. Like they say "Like attracts like" in the astral. Whether they be Theistic Satanists, Necromancers, or people attracted to the darkness, they are resonating well with there own human nature and spiritual nature. I know some people like that, they are spiritual and are actually addicted to having nightmares as they receive a "high" off it. The adrenaline, the feelings of oppression, succumbing to "darkness" etc. They don't get frightened, nor have feelings of terror or damnation  by these altered states of mind one bit, they actually openly welcome it and endorse it, no matter how grotesque or unsettling it appears to them, they love it. They as well have an entirely different moral compass from the average well meaning human being, and dont get disturbed or phased by things so easily lol.

I have to disagree that this behavior is 'inborn'- this is textbook masochism, and usually masochism comes from stimulus, not nature.

The way masochists are made is the same way- they suffer a lot, eventually become proud of their survival, start to get a boost from this survival, and then comes the cycle of 'seeing what they can handle', and the envelope gets pushed more and more, until the negative stimulus creates the pleasure- and so a masochist is born.
These people probably are 'metaphysical masochists'- and end up being attracted to the abuse, just as the physical ones.
Just my opinion, obviously.

[enes]

hi,
well honestly will the days of doctrin and dogma ever end?
I mean i've read adrian's book and in the book he says that everyone will awaken at some point iirc
and there has been some talk about 2012
well honestly I haven't seen any religious or cultural changes in the society I live in

and what do you mean hell isn't eternal in islam
in islam  muslims believe that the non-believers will be in hell for eternity
but as long as your a muslim even on your death bed your saved