The Astral Pulse

Miracles of the Qur'an

This information is gathered from the studies of Harun Yahya and his Book, Miracles of the Qur'an.  You can also read his books online for free at, http://www.harunyahya.com/index.php

There are people who do not understand the vast amounts of knowledge that is within the Qur'an, knowledge which only today has been proven scientifically accurate.  I would also like to state that the Qur'an was never altered, as in the case of the Bible.  We know this as fact because we have found pieces of gold with the Qur'an inscribed on it which date back to the Origin of Islam.  The most valuable proof I can offer to you, that the Qur'an was never altered, is an old 14th century Quran which is left in tact and can be viewed by anyone.  The following link will take you to a page where you can actually veiw the 14th century Qur'an online:

http://www.bl.uk/collections/treasures/treasures.html#

Now on to the Miracles of the Qur'an:

"He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth."(The Qur'an, 6:101)

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_02_02.jpg)

This information given in the Qur'an is in full agreement with the findings of contemporary science. The conclusion that astrophysics has reached today is that the entire universe, together with the dimensions of matter and time, came into existence as a result of a great explosion that occurred in no time. This event, known as "The Big Bang" proved that the universe was created from nothingness as the result of the explosion of a single point. Modern scientific circles are in agreement that the Big Bang is the only rational and provable explanation of the beginning of the universe and of how the universe came into being.

Before the Big Bang, there was no such thing as matter. From a condition of non-existence in which neither matter, nor energy, nor even time existed, and which can only be described metaphysically, matter, energy, and time were all created. This fact, only recently discovered by modern physics, was announced to us in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_02_01.jpg)

The sensitive sensors on board the COBE space satellite which was launched by NASA in 1992, captured evidentiary remnants of the Big Bang. This discovery served as evidence for the Big Bang, which is the scientific explanation of the fact that the universe was created from nothing.

In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)

The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.

Until the dawn of the 20th century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that "the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time". The research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology, however, have revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning, and that it constantly "expands".

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.

This fact was proved also by observational data in 1929. While observing the sky with a telescope, Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer, discovered that the stars and galaxies were constantly moving away from each other. A universe where everything constantly moves away from everything else implied a constantly expanding universe. The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe is constantly expanding. This fact was explained in the Qur'an when that was still unknown to anyone. This is because the Qur'an is the word of God, the Creator, and the Ruler of the entire universe.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_03_03.jpg)
From the moment of the big bang, the universe has been constantly expanding at a great speed. Scientists compare the expanding universe to the surface of a balloon that is inflated.



"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
(The Qur'an, 21:30)

The word ratq translated as "sewn to" means "mixed in each, blended" in Arabic dictionaries. It is used to refer to two different substances that make up a whole. The phrase "we unstitched" is the verb fataqa in Arabic and implies that something comes into being by tearing apart or destroying the structure of ratq. The sprouting of a seed from the soil is one of the actions to which this verb is applied.

Let us take a look at the verse again with this knowledge in mind. In the verse, sky and earth are at first subject to the status of ratq. They are separated (fataqa) with one coming out of the other. Intriguingly, when we remember the first moments of the Big Bang, we see that a single point included all the matter in the universe. In other words, everything, including "the heavens and earth" which were not created yet, were included in this point in a condition of ratq. This point exploded violently, causing its matter to fataqa and in the process created the structure of the whole universe.

When we compare the expressions in the verse with scientific findings, we see that they are in perfect agreement with each other. Interestingly enough, these findings were not arrived at until the 20th century.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_04_01.jpg)
The picture represents the Big Bang, which revealed once again that God created the universe from nothingness. The Big Bang is a theory that has been proven with scientific evidence. Although some scientists tried to advance alternative theories against the Big Bang, scientific evidence caused the theory to be completely accepted by the scientific community.




"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. "
(The Qur'an, 21:33)

It is mentioned in another verse, too, that the Sun is not static but moves in a definite orbit:

"And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. "
(The Qur'an, 36:38)

These facts communicated in the Qur'an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the Sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720,000 kilometers an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17,280,000 kilometers a day. Along with the Sun, and all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the Sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.

That the entire universe is full of paths and orbits such as this one, is written in the Qur'an as follows:

"By the sky full of paths and orbits."
(The Qur'an, 51:7)

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_05_01.jpg)


There are about 200 billion galaxies in the universe, consisting of nearly 200 billion stars in each. Most of these stars have planets, and most of those planets have satellites. All of these heavenly bodies move in very precisely computed orbits. For millions of years, each has been "swimming" along in its own orbit in perfect harmony and order with all the others. Moreover, many comets also move along in the orbits determined for them.

The orbits in the universe do not only belong to celestial bodies. The galaxies also travel at enormous speeds in computed, planned orbits. During these movements, none of these celestial bodies cuts across another's path, or collides with another.

Surely at the time the Qur'an was revealed, mankind did not possess today's telescopes or advanced observation technologies to observe millions of kilometres of space, nor the modern knowledge of physics or astronomy. Therefore, at that time, it was not possible to determine scientifically that space is "full of paths and orbits" as stated in the verse. However, this was openly declared to us in the Qur'an that was revealed at that time:-because the Qur'an is the word of God.




(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_05_02.jpg)
Like many other comets in the universe, Halley's comet, seen above, also moves in a planned orbit. It has a specific orbit and it moves in this orbit in a perfect harmony with other celestial bodies.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_05_03.jpg)
All celestial bodies including planets, satellites of these planets, stars, and even galaxies have their own orbits that have been determined with very delicate computations. The One Who established this perfect order and maintains it is God, Who created the entire universe.



"He has created the Heavens and the Earth for Truth. He wraps the night up in the day, and wraps the day up in the night."
(The Qur'an, 39:5)

In the Qur'an, the words used for describing the universe are quite remarkable. The Arabic word that is translated as "to wrap" in the above verse is "takwir". In English, it means "to make one thing lap over another, folded up as a garment that is laid away". (For instance, in Arabic dictionaries this word is used for the action of wrapping one thing around another, in the way that a turban is put on.)

The information given in the verse about the day and the night wrapping each other up includes accurate information about the shape of the world. This can be true only if the earth is round. This means that in the Qur'an, which was revealed in the 7th century, the roundness of the world was hinted at.

It should be remembered, however, that the understanding of astronomy of the time perceived the world differently. It was then thought that the world was a flat plane and all scientific calculations and explanations were based on this belief. The verses of the Qur'an, however, include information that we have learned only in the past century. Since the Qur'an is God's word, the most correct words were used in it when it comes to describing the universe.


(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_06_01.jpg)



In the Qur'an, God calls our attention to a very interesting attribute of the sky:

"We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs.."
(The Qur'an, 21:32)

This attribute of the sky has been proved by scientific research carried out in the 20th century.

The atmosphere surrounding the earth serves crucial functions for the continuity of life. While destroying many meteors big and small as they approach the earth, it prevents them from falling to earth and harming living things.

In addition, the atmosphere filters the light rays coming from space that are harmful to living things. Interestingly, the atmosphere lets only harmless and useful rays- visible light, near ultraviolet light, and radio waves pass through. All of this radiation is vital for life. Near ultraviolet rays, which are only partially let in by the atmosphere, are very important for the photosynthesis of plants and for the survival of all living beings. The majority of the intense ultraviolet rays emitted from the sun are filtered out by the ozone layer of the atmosphere and only a limited-and essential-part of the ultraviolet spectrum reaches the Earth.

The protective function of the atmosphere does not end here. The atmosphere also protects the earth from the freezing cold of the space, which is about minus 270° C.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_07_01.jpg%3Cbr%20/%3E)
The atmosphere only lets rays required for life reach the Earth. Ultraviolet rays, for example, make it to the world only partially. This is the most appropriate range to allow plants to make photosynthesis and eventually for all living things to survive.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_07_02.jpg)
This illustration shows meteors that are about to crash into the earth. The celestial bodies wandering in space could pose a serious threat to the Earth. Yet, God, He Who creates most perfectly, has made the atmosphere a protective roof. Thanks to this special protection, most meteoroids do not harm the Earth, as they fall to pieces in the atmosphere.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_07_03.jpg)
Most people looking at the sky do not think about the protective aspect of the atmosphere. They almost never think what kind of a place the world would be like if this structure did not exist. The above photo belongs to a giant crater caused by a meteor that fell in Arizona, in the USA. If the atmosphere did not exist, millions of meteoroids would fall to the Earth and the Earth would become an inhabitable place. Yet, the protective aspect of the atmosphere allows living things to survive in safety. This is certainly God's protection of people, and a miracle proclaimed in the Qur'an.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_07_04.jpg)
The energy released in a Sun burst is so powerful that the human mind would hardly comprehend it: A single burst is equivalent to 100 billion atomic bombs similar to the one dropped on Hiroshima. The world is protected from the destructive effects of this energy by the atmosphere and the Van Allen Belts.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_07_05.jpg)
As we move from the Earth, which is perfectly fitted for human life, beyond the atmosphere into the space, we come across a freezing cold. The world is protected from the freezing cold of space, which is around -270 degrees, by the help of the atmosphere.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_07_06.jpg)
The magnetosphere layer, formed by the magnetic field of the Earth, serves as a shield protecting the earth from celestial bodies, harmful cosmic rays and particles. In the above picture, this magnetosphere layer, which is also named Van Allen Belts, is seen. These belts at thousands of kilometres above the earth protect the living things on the Earth from the fatal energy that would otherwise reach it from space.

All these scientific findings prove that the world is protected in a very particular way. The important thing is that this protection was made known in the Qur'an in the verse "We made the sky a preserved and protected roof" 1,400 years ago.

It is not only the atmosphere that protects the Earth from harmful effects. In addition to the atmosphere, the Van Allen Belt, a layer caused by the magnetic field of the Earth, also serves as a shield against the harmful radiation that threatens our planet. This radiation, which is constantly emitted by the Sun and other stars, is deadly to living things. If the Van Allen belt did not exist, the massive outbursts of energy called solar flares that frequently occur in the Sun would destroy all life on Earth.

Dr. Hugh Ross has this to say on the importance of Van Allen Belts to our lives:

In fact, the Earth has the highest density of any of the planets in our Solar System. This large nickel-iron core is responsible for our large magnetic field. This magnetic field produces the Van-Allen radiation shield, which protects the Earth from radiation bombardment. If this shield were not present, life would not be possible on the Earth. The only other rocky planet to have any magnetic field is Mercury - but its field strength is 100 times less than the Earth's. Even Venus, our sister planet, has no magnetic field. The Van-Allen radiation shield is a design unique to the Earth.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_07_07.jpg)

The energy transmitted in just one of these bursts detected in recent years was calculated to be equivalent to 100 billion atomic bombs similar to the one dropped on Hiroshima. Fifty-eight hours after the burst, it was observed that the magnetic needles of compasses displayed unusual movement and 250 kilometers above the earth's atmosphere, the temperature suddenly increased to 2,500° C.

In short, a perfect system is at work high above the Earth. It surrounds our world and protects it against external threats. Scientists only learned about it recently, yet centuries ago, God informed us in the Qur'an of the world's atmosphere functioning as a protective shield.


The verse 11 of Sura Tarik in the Qur'an, refers to the "returning" function of the sky.

"By Heaven with its cyclical systems."
(The Qur'an, 86:11)

This word interpreted as "cyclical" in Qur'an translations also has meanings of "sending back" or "returning".

As known, the atmosphere surrounding the Earth consists of many layers. Each layer serves an important purpose for the benefit of life. Research has revealed that these layers have the function of turning the materials or rays they are exposed to back into space or back down to the Earth. Now let us examine with a few examples of this "recycling" function of the layers encircling the Earth.

The troposphere, 13 to 15 kilometers above the Earth, enables water vapor rising from the surface of the Earth to be condensed and turn back as rain.

The ozone layer, at an altitude of 25 kilometers, reflects harmful radiation and ultraviolet light coming from space and turns both back into space.

The ionosphere, reflects radio waves broadcast from the Earth back down to different parts of the world, just like a passive communications satellite, and thus makes wireless communication, radio, and television broadcasting possible over long distances.

The magnetosphere layer turns the harmful radioactive particles emitted by the Sun and other stars back into space before they reach the Earth.

The fact that this property of the atmosphere's layers, that was onlt demonstrated in the recent past was announced centuries ago in the Qur'an, once again demonstrates that the Qur'an is the word of God.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_08_01.jpg)
The presence of water is essential for life on Earth. One of the factors acting in the formation of water is the Troposphere, one of the layers of the atmosphere. The troposphere layer enables water vapour rising from the surface of the Earth to be condensed and turn back down to the Earth as rain.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_08_02.jpg)
The atmosphere layer that blocks the rays that might be fatal to life on Earth is the Ozonosphere. The Ozonosphere turns harmful cosmic rays like ultraviolet back to space, hence preventing them from reaching the Earth and harming life.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_08_03.jpg)
Each layer of the atmosphere has beneficial attributes for human beings. The Ionosphere layer, one of the upper layers of the atmosphere, for example, reflects radio waves broadcast from a certain centre back down to the Earth, thus enabling broadcasts to be received from long distances.

One fact about the universe revealed in the verses of the Qur'an is that the sky is made up of seven layers.

"It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."
(The Qur'an, 2:29)

"Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."
(The Qur'an, 41:12)

The word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_09_01.jpg)
The Earth has all the attributes that are needed for life. One of them is the atmosphere, which serves as a shield protecting living things. Today, it is an established fact that the atmosphere is made up of different layers lying on top of one another. Just as it is described in the Qur'an, the atmosphere is made up of exactly seven layers. This is certainly one of the miracles of the Qur'an.

Indeed, today it is known that the world's atmosphere consists of different layers that lie on top of each other. Furthermore, it consists, just as is described in the Qur'an, of exactly seven layers. In a scientific source, the subject is described as follows:

Scientists have found that the atmosphere consists of several layers. The layers differ in such physical properties as pressure and the types of gasses. The layer of the atmosphere closest to Earth is called the TROPOSPHERE. It contains about 90% of the total mass of the atmosphere. The layer above the troposphere is called the STRATOSPHERE. The OZONE LAYER is the part of the stratosphere where absorption of ultraviolet rays occurs. The layer above the stratosphere is called the MESOSPHERE. The THERMOSPHERE lies above the mesosphere. The ionized gases form a layer within the thermosphere called the IONOSPHERE. The outermost part of Earth's atmosphere extends from about 480 km out to 960 km. This part is called the EXOSPHERE. (2)

If we count the number of layers cited in this source, we see that the atmosphere consists of exactly seven layers, just as stated in the verse.

1. Troposphere
2. Stratosphere
3. Ozonosphere
4. Mesosphere
5. Thermosphere
6. Ionosphere
7. Exosphere

Another important miracle on this subject is mentioned in the statement "(He) revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate.", in verse 12 of Sura Fussilet. In other words, in the verse, God states that He assigned each heaven its own duty. Truly, as seen in previous chapters, each one of these layers has vital duties for the benefit of human kind and all other living things on the Earth. Each layer has a particular function, ranging from forming rain to preventing harmful rays, from reflecting radio waves, to averting the harmful effects of meteors.

One of these functions, for example, is stated in a scientific source as follows:

Earth's atmosphere has 7 layers. The lowest layer is called troposphere. Rain, snow and wind only take place in the troposphere.(3)

It is a great miracle that these facts, which could not possibly be discovered without the technology of the 20th century, were explicitly stated by the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_09_02.jpg)
14 centuries ago, when the sky was believed to be one unified body, the Qur'an miraculously stated that it consisted of layers, and what is more, "seven" layers. Modern science, on the other hand, discovered the fact that the atmosphere surrounding the Earth is made up of "seven" basic layers only very recently.

The Qur'an draws attention to a very important geological function of mountains.

"We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them"
(The Qur'an, 21:31)

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_10_01.jpg)Mountains have roots deep under the surface of the ground. (Earth, Press and Siever, p. 413)

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_10_02.jpg)Schematic section. Mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground. (Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux, p.220)

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_10_03.jpg)Another illustration shows how mountains are peg-like in shape, due to their deep roots. (Earth Science, Tarbuck and Lutgens, p.158)



(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_10_04.jpg)

As we have noticed, it is stated in the verse that mountains have the function of preventing shocks in the Earth.

This fact was not known by anyone at the time the Qur'an was revealed. It was in fact brought to light only recently as a result of the findings of modern geology.

According to these findings, mountains emerge as a result of the movements and collisions of massive plates forming the Earth's crust. When two plates collide, the stronger one slides under the other, the one on the top bends and forms heights and mountains. The layer beneath proceeds under the ground and makes a deep extension downward. That means that mountains have a portion stretching downwards, as large as their visible parts on the Earth.

In a scientific text, the structure of mountains is described as follows:

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_10_06.jpg)
Where continents are thicker, as in mountain ranges, the crust sinks deeper into the mantle.(4)

In a verse, this role of the mountains is pointed out by a comparison with "pegs":

"Have We not made the earth as a bed and the mountains its pegs?"
(The Qur'an, 78:6-7)

Mountains, in other words, clench the plates in the Earth's crust together by extending above and beneath the Earth's surface at the conjunction points of these plates. In this way, they fix the Earth's crust, and prevent it from drifting over the magma stratum or among its plates. Briefly, we may liken mountains to nails that keep pieces of wood together.

This fixing function of the mountains is described in scientific literature by the term "isostasy". Isostasy means the following:

Isostasy: general equilibrium in the Earth's crust maintained by a yielding flow of rock material beneath the surface under gravitational stress.(5)

This vital role of mountains, that was discovered by modern geology and seismic research, was revealed in the Qur'an centuries ago as an example of the supreme wisdom in God's creation.

"We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them..."
(The Qur'an, 21:31)

(http://www.harunyahya.com/images_miracle_Quran/part1_10_05.jpg)
With extensions that mountains extend out towards under the ground as well as over the ground, they clench different plates of the earth together like a peg. The Earth's crust consists of plates that are in constant motion. This clenching property of mountains prevents shocks to a great extent, by fixing the earth's crust, which has a very movable structure.






There is much much more, I will try to add it in later.



Mohamed

Certain accusations about Prophet Muhammad where made within this Forum a few days back.  I will re-post my reply again in this thread which Beth has created for information regarding Islam.

"Muhammad and the beating of women"

This is where a lot of people misunderstand Islam.  Men are never aloud to abuse women, this is strictly forbidden!  What is aloud, though, is that a man can, only if his wife does something that is bad, tap her hand opposite the palm.  This is to make her feel humiliated for the wrong she did.

Also, do not think that Men are superior in Islam.  On the contrary, Women seem to have more property rights.  In a divorce women get a certain percentage of the mans property (this is where algebra was created).  There is an entire chapter devoted to women in the Qur'an.

"Muhammad and sex with a 9 year old"

This is a really desperate point to make.  I would first off like to mention that this was found in Hadiths, which usually can not be trusted.  Since Hadiths are never memorized people usually tamper with them, adding things in and replacing certain text (sort of like the Bible).

I know you will want an explanation, so I will give you one (but I will NOT say that Muhammad, a Prophet of God, did such a thing).  Truth be told, all cultures are different, here in America, marriage to a Cousin is out of the Question, but else where in the world it is done all the time.  Also, here in America, kissing a sibling on the lips is considered a form of incest, but elsewhere it is a normal thing to do.  During the 600's, marriage to young children was accepted and viewed as normal (in the Arabic Culture, I am not sure about else where, I will have to do some research).  Just because to you it seems abnormal, does not mean that to others it is also abnormal.  Such behavior still happens today, in fact it happened here in the USA, a 42 year old women married a 14 year old boy.

"Muhammad and the murder of Asma bint Marwan"
"Muhammad and the torture and murder of Kinana"
"Muhammad and the murder of Abu Afak"

It is posts like these that make me laugh.  You post about something, yet you do not know who the Prophet was!  There was a Christian documentation about Prophet Muhammad that aired last year, I forget the title (I will try to find it), that clearly states that Muhammad was not a murderer and did not spread Islam by the sword.  Muhammad and the People of Islam had to defend themselves from the Meccans and in doing so ended up defeating them.  You really should learn more about Prophet Muhammad and his struggle to build up Islam.  Btw, I must mention, that a few of the Christians who made the documentary, actually converted to Islam before airing it.

"Was Muhammad a role model?"

How can a Prophet not be a role model?  How can a Man who says, "Love thine neighbor, and love thine enemies," not be a role model?  How can a Man who says, "When at war, do not harm any innocent civilians, do not harm the Women and Children, and let not one green leaf fall from a tree," not be a role model?  How can a Man who with his great force entered Mecca, saw that the people of Mecca where afraid of him, left them alone and did not harm one of his enemies, not be a role model?  How can a man who cared for so many orphans not be a role model?  How can a man, with so much love in his heart for God and the Prophets of God not be a role model?  How can a man who refused others to bow to him, and constantly repeated that he is a man just as all others are and does not need special attention, not be a role model?  This list goes on forever.

I for one have two role models that I look up to, Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Jesus.  These are two Great men, with Golden hearts that extend to all of mankind; hearts that are filled with love of God the one and only.  If only I can be anywhere near these two great benevolent men, both of which I highly look up to, and read a great deal about them.

Mohamed:

Thank you for moving these posts!  

Your exposition of scripture in the first one is fascinating as you apply it in a critical study of physics and cosmology. Could this also be referred to as a "takwir" of Quran and Cosmology???  (Did I use the term correctly???[:I])

On the second, I am sorry that you had to answer to the accusations (not shown here) but although it is not immediately apparent, oftentimes enlightenment has occured through adversity.

Thank you for your contributions so far!  I do hope you will post even more background information as you have the time.

Knowledge of others will always lead us closer to unity within diversity than will ignorance and hatred of each other.  (I just made that up! tee-hee[8D])

Peace,
Beth

hmm... it's definitely going to take me awhile to read this. Maybe a few weeks.

G'day Folks!

I just deleted a few posts here because they were unsuitable for the theme of this thread, as well as being generally offensive and disrespectful towards Islam. I also deleted one that contained a quote from the offensive posts.

Please take this as a friendly caution. We try to be fair to everyone, but such posts are not welcome on the AP as they tend to stir up anger and resentment.

If this advice is ignored, further action will be taken.


Take care, Robert.

Mohamed-
I only skimmed over what you wrote, but definatly intend to go back and read it in detail when I get more time. I actually know very little about Islam. I recently purchased The Koran Interpreted by A. J. Arberry, which I look forward to beginning.

I hope to be able to bounce off any questions I may have to you as I proceed through this.

Thank you in advance for the informative posts thus far.

An interesting phrase from quran... Can be related to the astral projection... What do you think?



39:42 It is God that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.

[39.42] Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep; then He withholds those on whom He has passed the decree of death and sends the others back till an appointed term; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.

39-42. It is Allâh Who takes away the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps those (souls) for which He has ordained death and sends the rest for a term appointed. Verily, in this are signs for a people who think deeply.
.
.

I mean no harm in this message, but it is a the truth I know thus far of the Koran, Islam, and countries that are primarily of this religion.

Islam had many questionable practices, such as the circumcision of females, and the negative effects it could have later ie.painful sex,hemohraging, ect. Islam also encourages conversion, as does all religion.
Also, a few records indicate an example that Muhammad was NOT prophet of god material. He encouraged the attack of Mecca, not conversion, simply because they did not beleive him and his testimony about Allah. Im sorry but regardless if it was self defense or not, do you dare say it was without question? A cop that shoots a man is going to hell in his religion. There is no, "I had to", because if a person is truly faithful, they would die for their beleifs. That is why Jesus Christ is dead, he was a martyr, as any prophet SHOULD have been.
Later on, he also remarried multiple times for new sexual partnership. Im unsure on this one, but I am pretty confident in this statement.

As you said before, female abuse is not permitted, but the female side of Koran is still degrading when you think about it, good idea or not. The females are to cover their hair and face, for their beuty is for their family alone, and so a male will not merry her for lust, but for love. To back my previous statement, I do say this, the issues of covering ones hair and face came a while after Islam was established in Mecca, for this was when the Koran was being written. Now the the Muslims have Mecca back, they face it as their "Holy City" to pray.

I mean no harm by this, but I find Islam to very questionable, as I do every religion.

For those that may feel the need to come at me with rude response, for my post asks for it, take note I DO NOT DECLARE ANYTHING LISTED AS TRUE, JUST WHAT I HAD READ/BEEN TOLD BY MUSLIMS.


P.S. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, ect ALL have serious faults, but I focused on the issue I thought was most important to be reviewed;sex, sin, partnership, and practices that cause issues/death.

I've just started reading the Koran Interpreted. I'm only on the first section, titled The Cow. But I'm noticing a pattern and I'm curious about what others think. The following are some quotes as examples:

Section 155: "But those who disbelieve, and die disbelieving - upon them shall rest the curse of God and the angels, and of men altogether, therein dwelling forever; the chastisement shall not be lightened for them; no respite shall be given them."

Same section, next paragraph: "Your God is One God; there is no god but He, the All-merciful, the All-compassionate."

Several other sections describe God as All-compassionate one time and as "terrible in Chastisement" in another. There was also a reference to Satan and fire -- which I assume to be similar to hell.

So my questions:
To me, the first two quotes above sound contradictory. How can God be all compassionate and merciful, and yet also not allow for any respite?

I was baptised Christian and am familiar with that religion. Does Islam also teach that there is a devil, Satan? I thought that was a 'christian thing.'

Does Islam also teach a heaven and hell philosophy similar to christianity?

Also, I'm not trying to do a comparison here between these two. I'm simply using christainity as my reference because I'm familiar with it.

Thanks!

I am also a Muslim(who has also been very interested in Out of body experiences btw [:)]. Ill be happy to help answer anyone's questions about Islam.

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So my questions:
To me, the first two quotes above sound contradictory. How can God be all compassionate and merciful, and yet also not allow for any respite?

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Islam allows a person to come and repent at any time he pleases during his life. If he dies while in disbelief, then after that time then repentence can not be accepted.

The concept is different from concept of being "saved" since Muslims believe that people are born pure and sinless and in a state of submission to God(i.e. Islam) Islam teaches that after people have reached adolescence they will be responsible for their good and bad deeds(and the intention behind the deeds.)

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I was baptised Christian and am familiar with that religion. Does Islam also teach that there is a devil, Satan? I thought that was a 'christian thing.'

Does Islam also teach a heaven and hell philosophy similar to christianity?

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As Muslims we believe in all the past prophets such as Moses, Jesus, Abraham etc. We believe that they all came to teach the same message unto humanity(to worship one God with no partners), yet the scriptures(Bible, Torah) were corrupted when they got into the hands of men. Muslims believe that Muhammad(peace be upon him) is the final messenger unto mankind and the Quran is the final book which has been revealed to guide humanity.There is a Day of Judgement in Islam in which the believers who do good works are in Heaven, while the disbelievers are in Hell.

Muslims do not believe in the Trinity or Jesus being the 'Son of God'.
Muslims believe that Jesus was a righteous prophet who commanded to worship God, just as the prophets in the past did.

In regards to Satan, Muslims believe in the story, although Muslims do not believe Satan was an Angel, yet he was a Jinn(an unseen creature which has freewill). This is because an Angel(according to Islam) has no freewill and can never deviate from the path of righetousness which God has ordained for them. In no way do Muslims believe that Satan was a fallen Angel, but an unseen creature which has freewill which is known as a Jinn(in arabic at least).

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Islam had many questionable practices, such as the circumcision of females, and the negative effects it could have later ie.painful sex,hemohraging, ect. Islam also encourages conversion, as does all religion.
Also, a few records indicate an example that Muhammad was NOT prophet of god material. He encouraged the attack of Mecca, not conversion, simply because they did not beleive him and his testimony about Allah. Im sorry but regardless if it was self defense or not, do you dare say it was without question? A cop that shoots a man is going to hell in his religion. There is no, "I had to", because if a person is truly faithful, they would die for their beleifs. That is why Jesus Christ is dead, he was a martyr, as any prophet SHOULD have been.
Later on, he also remarried multiple times for new sexual partnership. Im unsure on this one, but I am pretty confident in this statement.

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The Islamic world is somewhat in their own "Dark Age" as the Christian world was 1000 years ago. These 'genital mutilations' have no basis in Islam whatsoever(these are actually tribal practices which Islam came to condemn). Im sure you understand this already but i would just like to stress it.


Now, Jihad is something very misunderstood about Islam. Muhammad(peace be upon him) and his followers were persecuted for the first 13 years of their mission while they were in Mecca living side by side with the polytheists. They were subjugated to Beatings, torture, killings, sanctions etc. but they continued to preach to the polytheists and stick to their religion. Jihad means to strive, and at that time they were commanded to strive "to pray" and to strive to preach. This persecution and extreme oppression they were subjected to, were just like how Jesus and Moses were persecuted by the strong nations of their time.

The main difference is that when Muhammad and his followers went to Medina the situation became political. Islam is a way of life, not just a belief system. It covers the social, economic, and political spheres(not just spiritual). Muhammad established an Islamic state in Medina(after signing a peace treaty), which became the place where Islam prevailed, spiritually, socially, and politically.

Islam came as a final message to humanity and came to cover all aspects of life, from political to spiritual. The Quran states that it has not left any relgious matter out of Islam and the criterion for good and evil in all aspects of life has been laid down until the Day of Judgement.

When Muhammad established this final example for life and justice(in all matters), the fighting against the Polytheists was only against those who were fighting against the Muslims(or who stole from them et.c), the fighting was to gain back the dignity of the Muslim nation and to continue being able to invite others to Islam until Islam reaches every part of the globe. Muslims are not allowed to force anyone to "believe" or to become Muslim as said in the Quran: "There is no compulsion in religion. Truth stands clear out from error... "[Surah Al-Baqarah: 2:256] There are many verses that state that "if Allah willed, he could have guided all of humanity", and that it is not for a person such as Muhammad to make a person believe(since the matter is in the hands of God)

And in regards to martyrdom, many Muslims were martyred while being persecuted in Mecca(Muhammad was almost martyred many times but saved by miraculous occurences), but if a Muslim dies in battle defending the Islamic homeland and affairs, then he is too considered a martyr.

Now in regards to there being no other Prophet who fought. Didn't David and Soloman fight and establish themselves and their religion in the land? I am not sure if the story is the same but the Quran says(about David) : "So they routed them by Allah's Leave and Dawud (David) killed Jalut (Goliath), and Allah gave him [Dawud (David)] the kingdom [after the death of Talut (Saul) and Samuel] and Al­Hikmah (Prophethood), and taught him of that which He willed. And if Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief. But Allah is full of Bounty to the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists). "[Surah Al-Baqarah: 2:251 ]

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As you said before, female abuse is not permitted, but the female side of Koran is still degrading when you think about it, good idea or not. The females are to cover their hair and face, for their beuty is for their family alone, and so a male will not merry her for lust, but for love. To back my previous statement, I do say this, the issues of covering ones hair and face came a while after Islam was established in Mecca, for this was when the Koran was being written. Now the the Muslims have Mecca back, they face it as their "Holy City" to pray.

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Women are not required to cover their face. In fact, if you look at the old commentaries(written 900 years ago) on the Quran, it is easy to see that the idea of hijab or "concealment" is very general. The Quran basically says for women to "be modest" so that they aare not molested. This interpretation of being modest is very general, possibly for cultural considerations.

Thank you very much for your reply.

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Islam allows a person to come and repent at any time he pleases during his life. If he dies while in disbelief, then after that time then repentence can not be accepted.

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That's what I thought it may have implied. Does Islam teach reincarnation? I would assume not. Since the implication from the section that I quoted seemed to be death was final. But I could be misunderstanding it.

I have heard of Jinn before, but I'll be honest, I don't really know what they are. Can you elaborate on what they are? Are Jinn something from the arabic culture or Islam or are the two so tightly intertwined that the Jinn are found in both?

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That's what I thought it may have implied. Does Islam teach reincarnation? I would assume not. Since the implication from the section that I quoted seemed to be death was final. But I could be misunderstanding it.

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You understood correctly. [:)]

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I have heard of Jinn before, but I'll be honest, I don't really know what they are. Can you elaborate on what they are? Are Jinn something from the arabic culture or Islam or are the two so tightly intertwined that the Jinn are found in both?

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The idea of the Jinn was something known to the Arabs before. The Arabs before Islam used to worship Jinns and 'ask permission' from the Jinns before they would enter certain places. When Islam came, the Quran abolished this practice(and told to worship none but God), but interestingly left it that Jinns did exist. The word Jinn means "hidden" and the Quran says that they are made out of "smokeless fire". There are good Jinns and bad Jinns and will be accoounted along with humans on the day of judgement. Islam says they can see us but we can not see them. There is a story(in the Quran) about a Jinn listening to a human recite the Quran and became a believer(after hearing the beauty of it's poetry). It is called Surah Al-Jinn
if you are interested.

Also heres a recitation of the chapter, its very nice:

http://www.alafasy.com/audio/qur2an/ram/072_jin_2.ram

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To me, the first two quotes above sound contradictory. How can God be all compassionate and merciful, and yet also not allow for any respite?

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As you can see in the above post He is merciful to the believers and He is merciless to the unbelievers and who reject Him.
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I have (another) question. Christianity also does not teach reincarnation. Yet things that I've experienced, particularly in astral travel, tell me that there is such a thing as reincarnation. DJ, you mention that you are interested in OBE. Do you mind my asking if you see a conflict between OBE/Astral projection and the Quran? Just curious how you balance the two. I have my own opinions regarding this issue and the Bible.

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I have (another) question. Christianity also does not teach reincarnation. Yet things that I've experienced, particularly in astral travel, tell me that there is such a thing as reincarnation. DJ, you mention that you are interested in OBE. Do you mind my asking if you see a conflict between OBE/Astral projection and the Quran? Just curious how you balance the two. I have my own opinions regarding this issue and the Bible.

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39-42. "It is Allâh Who takes away the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps those (souls) for which He has ordained death and sends the rest for a term appointed. Verily, in this are signs for a people who think deeply.
"

It is possible that that verse suggests Out of body experiences. Mohamed and I had  a discussion about this very subject and we came to the conclusion that Out of body experiences are supported by the Quran(as being real) yet the idea of other dimensions is not. What people describe  of the Astral is like a dream, yet many people explain this as that the Astral is 'sensitive' to our thoughts. There is not much proof in Astral travel(in my opinion), for what if what you are seeing are just manifestations of your own thoughts?? It is hard for a Muslim to believe in Astral Travel and other demensions.

So reincarnation and whatever you saw that was in association with it could have just been a manifestation of your own imagination in which you were in such a deep state of  mind that it seemed completely separate from you and your thoughts(and real).


The idea of the Jinn supports out of body experiences too in my opinion. When we are in the real-time zone and we see beings of whom who we would not be able to see if we were in physical reality, it is possible it is a jinn.

There is some dispute about whether Out of body experiences are allowed to be induced by our own will. For example, the verse says that it is GOD who takes the souls at the time of death and at sleep.

Yet the Quran specifically doesn't say it is forbidden.

Islam doesn't concern itself with much of these issues. It does not teach man to detach himself from society to learn the truth. For the truth and its arguments are all layed out in the Quran. I have heard some people on this website say that "the truth can not be found in one book and we should not be expected to follow it!" yet they say this without ever setting eyes on the Quran.

The first commandments of the Quran(when Muhammad(sws) was visited by Jibril for the first time) are to read and gain knowledge:

"Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created,
Has created man from a clot,
Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous,  
Who has taught by the pen,
Has taught man that which he knew not."
[Surah Al-Alaq  96:1-5]


And then the Quran continues:

"Nay! Verily, man does transgress all bounds
Because he considers himself self-sufficient.
Surely! Unto your Lord is the return."[96:6-8]

And also:

"Nay, but those who do wrong follow their own lusts without knowledge. Who is able to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? For such there are no helpers. "[Surah Ar-Rum 30:29]

"So set thy purpose for religion as a man by nature upright - the nature made by Allah, in which He hath created man. There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not." [Surah Ar-Rum 30:30]

"Turning unto Him (only); and be careful of your duty unto Him and establish worship, and be not of those who ascribe partners (unto Him) " [30:31]

As seen on the above post and the others, muslim people does not answer your questions personally. Instead they refer to quran and find the answer there. You can also read it find your own answers. Everybody is responsible on themselves. I hope god will shed a light on you...
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It is possible that that verse suggests Out of body experiences.

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Thank you very much for your response.

I personally have the same feeling about the interpretation of the bible, or any text for that matter. I think many times, people can interpret words to mean something they don't. Or something could be written vaguely with the intention of insighting curiousity and growth in new directions when they are ready. But that's just my opinion.

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As seen on the above post and the others, muslim people does not answer your questions personally. Instead they refer to quran and find the answer there. You can also read it find your own answers. Everybody is responsible on themselves.

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I couldn't agree more Birm. I think part of our growth and reason for being here is making decisions for the betterment of ourselves and others. But we are all responsible for the decisions that we make. There is no pointing the finger and blaming others.

And I am in the midst of reading the Quran. But I was curious, given the different forums on this board, whether or not muslims saw a conflict between OBE/Astral projection and Islam.

Thank you very much for your feedback!

It is God that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep : Those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (From returning to life), but the rest He sends (To their bodies) for a term appointed.  Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect. (Chapter 39: The Crowds, verse 42)

(This verse was translated from English to Arabic by Abdullah Yusuf Ali in the manner you see above.  I like his translations because they are as close to the real Arabic meaning and possible in the English language.)

We can use the above verse to argue that Islam does in fact inform us of the phenomenon known as OBE's.  If our souls are taken while we sleep, then we can infer that we are able to control this process.

Is an OBE permitted in Islam?  The Qur'an does not state that we are not permitted to leave our bodies though, a liberal Muslim would state that since it is God that takes our souls while we sleep, we should not interfere with the process.  With this they would conclude that it is against Islam to have an OBE.

A more moderate Muslim would say otherwise.  The Qur'an states that we leave our bodies while we sleep, why then would it be against Islam to have direct control of this?

I can come up with many reasons for why, in Islam, it is allowed to leave our bodies at will just as easily as the Liberal Muslim can do otherwise.  I for one adhere strongly to the Muslim quote, "Mankind is gifted with the ability to do anything but create life."

I would also like to point out what is said at the end of that verse, "Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect."  We can infer from this that one day mankind will come to know that we are able to leave our bodies at will, or else how can we reflect?  Many people who visit the astral pulse forums are people who are able to leave their bodies at will.  Can they not then reflect and see this as a sign?

We also see this with the verse (as with many others):
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (The Qur'an, 21:30)

Even though the Qur'an clearly states what we now call the big bang theory, and the theory of evolution, many still do not wish to believe.

Mohamed

Islam is not influenced by any Judeo traditions. It is based on Muhammad's experience and teachings, correct?


Islam DOES follow on from the Judeo tradition. Islam, like christianity, accepts the Old Testament, even if it believes some of its information has been corrupted. The OT is as much part of Islam as it is part of Christianity.

Someone stated however that they accept Jesus as messiah. This is wrong.
Muslims recognise Jesus as a prophet, not god himself. In this way, the Muslim view of Jesus is the same view as that held by the Jews.

Therefor, Jesus was a prophet, after a long line of prophets. Mohammed is the last prophet in that line and his teachings are the final formulation of the law.

We should also remember that even in early Christianity the idea that Jesus was god was disputed and some christians themselves regarded him as a prophet, but the finalised decision to accept him as son of god occured at the Conference of Nicea in 325, presided over by Roman emperor Constantine. In addition, The 'trinity' concept was only formulated a century before (3rd Century AD).
(cf Prof. Robert Turcan : The cults of the Roman empire, 1996).

I don't think therefore that Muslims believe that Jesus ever said that he was the son of god; they believe that this was a later corruption of data, added in later, on purpose or by mistake.

Concerning extremeism. The Koran specifically states that Muslims are to respect other religions and islam is much more tolerent of other religions than chistianity is (in theory); followers of other faiths are not to be forced onto the 'true path'. Therefore in lands that Muslims conquer they usually allow churches/temples of other faiths to continue as before.
for example, in Greece, which was taken over by the Ottomam Turkish empire, Christian churches were by and large preserved, which is why, now that Greece is independant again, all their churches are still intact, Although a few were converted into mosques. cf Byzantium: the Hagia Sophia, ok, not in Greece. The Greek orthadox church still has its HQ in Istanbul, even although the country is muslim. In most cases, Christians were allowed to continue their worship.

A good story I heard in greece is of how the Greeks were aware of the Muslims tolerence for other religions and used this to their adantage; I cant remember which island it was, but when the Greeks heard that the turks were planning to take it, they built churches all over it so that almost ALL free space was taken up by churches!
Then when the Turks took the island, they were bound by their own rules so they couldnt do anything with the land they had taken!
To this day that Greek island has the most churches in one place than anywhere else in Greece!

However, the problem is, a few of the middle-eastern countries are being run by fundamentalist regimes who choose to interpret the Koran in a certain way, and to 'forget' obvious things like 'respect other religions'. however Fundamentalist Islam is not a true representation of Islam, just as most normal Christians would not be associated with nutty Christian fundamentalists... you know the types... the ones who actually think it would be a good idea to have a nuclear war in the Middle-east as it would hasten the 'second coming'!!!

You find this with any fundi- religion, christian fundis tend to forget obvious Christ teachings like 'love thy neighbour, thy enemies and so on.
Imagine the US or the UK run by christian fundamentalists.... actually we have had that already with the Puritan Oliver Cromwell.... banning Christmas for example... what a git!

Anyway, thats my limited take on Islam.. not a bad religion.

Douglas

786

Ok, I'm a newish lurker and member to this forum, I'll start by presenting my perspectives on sundry topics based on my understanding of Islam.

I'll touch on Jesus, Dreams and Out of Body Experiences, the Jinn, and if time permits more contriversial topics like patriarchy, marriage practices, sexuality, and the like.

Direct comments to southakj@mpowernet.com

Jesus and the Messiah: Muslims *emphatically* believe that Jesus Christ WAS the Messiah. Full stop. In fact the Quran blames the Israelites of the time for not accepting him as the Messiah. In Arabic Jesus is called 'Isa al-Masih, of "Jesus the Messiah". Masih means, amongst other things, "annointed" from the arabic root m-s-h meaning to wipe. It also has the meaning of a "walker" or "traveller" since Jesus, being an anchorite and ascetic, pretty much traveled the earth on foot.

The Messiah is prophesised to return to this earthly plane near the end of time, he will descend in Damascus by one of the minarets, and lead the world's faithful against the "antichrist", or the "Masih al-Dajjal", the false Messiah. A Global leader who will conquer most of the world, set up a religion dedicated to him, and sow falsehood. This topic and the specific prophesies associated with it, would form volumes in and of themselves.

Two, out of body experiences: What we call "Astral" travel is, or at least WAS in pre-modern times, a well accepted and documented matter in Islamdom.

In Indo-Iranian Islam the "Astral plane" is called Hurqallya. It has also been called "Na Koja Abad" or "Nowhere land" PARTS of it (the higher planes) are also known as the Alam-i Mithal  (or Alam al-Amthal in Arabic) and there are other names still.

On the cosmology of these planes and worlds, the best authorities are;
Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi, the Spainish Sufi.
Mulla Sadra and the Ishraqi philosophers
al-Shurawardi
And the "Shaykhi" school of Philosophers, who systematically
explored a good deal of the Astral Plane and formed various theories regarding it, relating it to the science of lenses and optics.


The Sufis refered to "Soul travel" in which the "Nafs" (or soul, what western occultists would call the Etheric body and the Astral body combined, since the nafs has different levels) could, and would, travel the world and other worlds/planes as well, and even with training assume a dense solidity. The masters of this art were usually Sufis.

Medeval Muslims were less concerned with etheric/astral projection than with exploration of dream states. A Hadith (statement) of the Prophet Muhammad, and one attributed to the Prophet Daniel, stated that in Sleep Allah removes the soul of man and raises it almost up to his throne, Dreams were often seen as experiences the soul underwent travelling up through the worlds in this nightly journey.

Purification rites should be performed before sleep so that the soul can properly pass through, unmolested. These rites are called "wudu" or "ghusl" and consist of a rite of washing the hands, face and head, arms, and feet. And in the most  excelent form of the rite the teeth are to be brushed and the nostrels rensed out.

The rite is symbolic as water is a worldly symbol of purifying Light, or "nur". The ghusl is a bath with the above elements added, it is a grounding and purification, and is to be performed after sexual intercourse, the menstral cycle, and certain other occasions.

Cont...

All Muslims in Classical Islamic times were obsessed by dreams, classical Islamdom was a civilization throughly obsessed with dreams and dreamlike states, which explains the through penetration of drugs like Hashish and opium into near eastern societies after their fall into decadance. As rigorous spiritual practices ceased to be practiced by the majority of Muslims it became so much easier just to smoke pot in local coffeehouses and achieve similar states. This was, many Muslims believe, a contributing factor in Islamdom's decline.

The rationalist worldview in the West influenced 18th and 19th century Muslim thinkers and subjects like dreams, and dream travel, became disreputable to some Muslim thinkers. Still, in the traditional Islamic world, the subject of dreams and dream interpritation is still quite important to laymen, and the religious scholars and clergy, espescially those with Sufic affiliations, are almost obsessed with the subject.

The Jinn, the jinn are beings of a "psychic" nature, that is to say that they are energetic beings "made of fire" whose natures are of a soul like one. They are of the nature that makes up the "Alam al-arwah" or world of souls, the psychic foundation of reality. This is to say that they are the native denizens of the lower "astral planes".

Magic, being a psychic phenonema, is natural to them. Beings like mythical Fays, fairies, elementals, and "spirits", indeed all manner of daemons, are by definition Jinn. There are many races and species of the Jinn and their kind predates Humanity by many ages.

Because of their great antiquity and long lifespans, they are believed to possess many Arts and Sciences that Mankind does not. They are believed to be communicated with in dreams or dreamlike states, trances and the like, or in Ceremonial Magic, behind the protection of a Magic circle.

Their forms and essences can be, it is believed, INFUSED with physical objects on this plane, thus by magics of various sorts it is believed that they can be trapped into haunting or possessing objects, houses, LAMPS, books, pillars, stones, even rings.

Modern Muslim scholars believe that UFO phenonema are caused by these "otherworldly" visitors, who are not physically aliens but rather come from another level of reality, the psychic or astral dimensions.

The Jinn are as a group neither good nor evil, but rather just like humanity, their allegances and dispositions vary.

It is believed that Jinn are "shape shifters" and can adopt animal forms and disguises, and even Human ones, or just pass unseen amongst us. In Myths and legends it seems that the forms MOST often taken by Jinns are REPTILIAN - snakes and the like, or the forms of Black Dogs. But they can asume any form, even innanimate objects. BUT ONCE ASSUMING A FORM THEY ARE BELIEVED TO BE BOUND BY THAT FORM'S LAWS. So if a Jinn assumes the form of, say, a huge snake, it is possible to slay it by the means one would normally slay such a beast. Or in the case of a man.

Some Jinn, just as some men and women, are more powerful than others, some possess vastly powerful magics, others do not. Most are beleived to go about their day to day lives, take care of their young, entertain each other, in much the manner that humans are.

It is believed that the greatest of Human spirituals are more powerful than the greatest of the Jinn, the "Ifreets". A Sufi Wali (Saint) can overpower a Jinn, as can a sincere believer, through the power of the Quran, whose words and very sounds we believe, possess intrinsic power, independent of the will and intent of the reciter.

Sorcery "al-Sihr" is forbidden in Islam, now much of what Westerners consider to be magic wasn't considered magic in Medeval Islamdom but rather simply different sciences. Sihr is specifically sorcery, usually of a ceremonial sort, tapping into the powers of the Jinn for various effects. It is useful to note that in every healthy traditional civilization, including Indian and Chinese, sorcery became popular in later periods of civilizational degeneration, but I refer readers to the works of Rene Guenon on such matters. The psychic forces tapped into by sorceries were regarded by Medeval Muslim magicans as being essentially of a Jinni nature. In some cases seeing the Jinn as beings is a bit of a misperception, it is equally accurate to see them as currents of force, power. Understanding this point makes it easier to understand certain popular myths, such as those in the Arabian nights.

Along this line I refer readers to Julius Evola's work on Practical Magic, his understanding of Magic, and Rene Guenon's, was pretty close to the understanding and worldviews, of Medeval Magicians in Islamdom.

Indeed, for that matter, what are human beings, if not currents of life force, crystallized into physical forms? But this is a tangent.

Oh, more on the Jinn. They are often refere dto as Pre-Adamite due to their dominion upon this world before the rise of man. Those readers who are fans of comparative myth, or of Fantasy writers like. R. Tolkien, should find much food for thought (indeed Tolkien's myths on the Elves before man, and the fall of Numidor, resonate here)

:-)

It is believed that there were between 40 and 72 Kings of the Jinn in the many thousands of years before the birth of our father Adam (and Islamic beliefs state that there were many "Adams" so we speak of the latest one).

The last earthly king of the Jinn was "Jann Ibn Jann" and it is believed that his name is the derivation of the modern name Jinn. Indeed the Jann are believed by a few to be an ancient primal race of the Jinn.

Modern Jinns are legion, but are roughly classified as the Ifrits, who are powerful in might, the Marid (or Maridah in the feminine), who are VERY dangerous beings of greater power still, and roughly correspond to Western notions of "Demons", The Ghouls, who are weaker (but still dangerous) and prowl graveyards, the weaker Jann, and the Shaitans (Satans) who are malevolent and in league with the the entity that Christians call Satan, whom we Muslims call Iblis or Shaitan (in the proper sense).

ANY man OR Jinn displaying certain traits is a Shaitan, Satan is a generic term in Islam).

This entity was a warrior amongst the Jinn's race, known as al-Harith in his youth (according to some authorities) and was captured in battle, it is believed by some, by certain powerful Angels.

In those days, it is believed, the Jinn had corrupted the earth and land, spread great cities using many arts and sciences but grew in PRIDE and wickedness, they spilt blood upon the earth, and descended into interfighting and warfare and idolotry, hence the Angels waged war from the heavens against them.

Al-Harith was captured and showed great aptitude, repented of his ignorance and arrogance and was elevated in rank to reside amongst the angels. He  became a learned scholar and worshiper and exceeded the angels in knowledge, piety, and spiritual zeal, until his fatal slip of arrogance when Adam was created.

It is believed that Iron and Steel have a baleful effect on many Jinn, in this physical world iron and steel have virtues, powers, or energies, that for some reason (I could share my speculations) can be harmful for them.

SALT is also believed to be harmful for Jinni spirits. In egypt people would sprinkle salt on doorsteps to prevent the Jinn from entering. In Western occultism there survives the use of salt for clearing and cleansing magical energies, I suspect that the reasons for this working are related to the reasons for the Jinn's aversion of salt.


Some authorities also state running water repels the Jinn as well.

If taking a human form, the Jinn can interbreed with Humans. This resonates STRONGLY with the ancient Celts beliefs in marriages and unions between the Fairies and Man. And with ancient biblical legends of the Nephilhim mating with the daughters of man, and ancient legends of mighty Heros walking the earth, sons and daughters of the "gods" and mortal women.

Female Jinn are often said to be quite beautiful but usually with some uncanny physical trait, for instance unusual eyes or the like. Their morality and customs are said to differ a bit from many human, but in general Islamic law recognizes the marriages of a man and jinnia, or a women and jinni. The offspring are often believed to have certain magical traits.

Jinn die but live lifespans so long they seem almost immortal, they are good and evil, moral and amoral, though their morality may or may not differ from ours (Allah knows best). It is believed that they are given a reckoning of their DEEDS and INTENTS just as man is, and may go to heaven or hell for a time, or even eternity if their wickedness merits it.

The next subject is reincarnation and cosmology.

Thank you for bearing with me, I'm just trying to get as much stuff posted to stimulate discussion, and clear the air, so to speak;


On Reincarnation and Cosmology.

Islam in general, with the exception of one or two thinkers (and the problematic Ismaili sect) sharply rejects reincarnation, indeed there are MANY problems, we feel, with modern  New Age concepts of Reincarnation. There is something more going on here, AND there are ways to reconcile sincere beliefs in reincarnation, and sincere beliefs AGAINST reincarnation, and also ways of explaining phenomena such as past life memories and the like, but I'll get to this, if my fair readers will read on.

First a question, if there is no linear time (and linear time is an illusion, in a sense, limited to certain planes of existence) HOW CAN WE HAVE PAST OR FUTURE LIVES ?

As we seen it, naught truly IS excepting Allah, and naught of time truly IS except the single moment, the eternal now, all else is a limited perception. All being is contingent, only Allah is true Being, and indeed the ESSENCE (al-dhat) of Allah is BEYOND BEING ITSELF.

Allah stated that 'Man curses time through the ages, but know that I am time' The sort of "time" spoken of is al-Dahr, or time through the ages, a concept similar to the modern concept of the Space Time continuum.

It is said that nothing was except Allah "upon his throne", and that Allah IS now as Allah WAS.

There is no past, there is no future, each moment is a NEW CREATION.

Why?

This teaching of the exoteric theologians, known as the Mutakalimun (of the Ashari school) is explained as everything being composed of irreducibley small particles "atoms", and each atom only exists for a brief period of time, blinks out of existence, and is renewed by Allah, EVERY MOMENT IS NEW.

Now the Inner teachings of the Sufi dervishes explain this further, for many of the Dervishes believe that there are BREATHS, pulses, of existence, in, out, expansion, contraction, THESE ARE THE BREATHS OF ALLAH in a metaphorical sense.

Mercy (al-Rahma) the "feminine" creation, and Rigor/wrath (ghadab), the "masculine" destruction, expand, contract; in a single moment a rhythmic pulse expands (think of the Great Bang) outward engendering all creation, and retracts DESTROYING ALL, constantly, for all eternity over and over again.

Thus as the Quran says, every day Allah is upon a new affair. This should be meditated upon. Each human soul is a unique creation as well, and this is what Muslims also find offensive about reincarnation, but I'll explain this further.

Older concepts of metempsychosis, transmigration, and rebirth, found in SOME Hindu and Buddhist thought, are less problematic, but it merits pointing out that, contrary to popular belief, doctrines of reincarnation are not all that common in the ancient world.

Greeks in LATER periods held some doctrines of metempsychosis, mainly after Plato, who taught a form of metempsychosis, he learnt from the Pythagorean schools, who got it from study in certain Egyptian mystery schools.

SOME Egyptian mystery schools taught similar doctrines, and the post-Vedic Hindus did as well. But witness the beliefs in heavens and hells in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

Some of the Celts seem to have believed in a rebirth in OTHER WORLDS, and a return for some to this world, but their beliefs are not well documented. LATER Druids believed in Rebirth but this could be influenced by Greek thought, as it is known that the Druid sages also studied similar mystery traditions in later periods.

Also some later Jewish doctrines describe a type of soul-wandering from body to body, sometimes without death taking place.

A belief in metempsychosis is also found here and there, amongst some American tribes, in some pacific tribes, but it is not Universal, belief in other types of post-death states also abound with equal if not greater frequency.

I NOW BELIEVE (Personally, I speak for myself) that ALL of these doctrines describe phenomena that exists, but not in the sense that people usually take them. I also believe that...

MORE MANY WESTERNERS THE IDEA OF REINCARNATION IS VERY ROMANTIC, VERY APPEALING.

It appeals to some people in ways that other doctrines do not.

It is interesting that in Eastern cultures people are repelled by the idea of reincarnating.

In modern Western cultures, many people look upon the doctrine with a fondness as a sort of school, of sorts, of hard knocks.

Still in the East many dread it, the whole point of many schools of Yoga and Buddhist thought is to ESCAPE Samsara, reincarnation is a punishment for them, not a chance to learn more, rather its a hard knock on the head for not achieving the NORMATIVE STATE of Nirvana,

Reincarnation is thus seen as an unfortunate consequence for failing to reach a normative state, not a school to help us evolve.

Reincarnation is no where found in the Vedas, instead ideas similar to Islamic ones, of a judgement after death and a heaven for those pleasing to the Gods, are found in scattered bits through the Vedas.

The Taoists in China NEVER believed in reincarnation until AFTER the Buddhists took control in China. This is a historical fact.

There are heavens and hells, however, in Taoist beliefs. As well in Tibetan Bon beliefs, and these beliefs were integrated into later Buddhist beliefs.

As Zen teaches (and many Zen schools either refuse to deal with reincarnation or reject it off the bat) ANYONE CAN BECOME ENLIGHTENED IN A MOMENT.

It does not and need not take 1000 lifetimes to achieve enlightenment, a child could given the right circumstances.

I also believe, personally, as to dispositions, there is an INHERENT OPTIMISM in Anglo-Saxon cultures, especially in American ones, that is a good virtue but can have the unfortunate dark-side reflection of...

A certain type of indolence and laziness, really no one needs to repeat 12th grade 5 times before graduating.

Our school systems give many chances, GEDs, remedial courses, and the like. Many other cultures do not allow this.

This is because we are optimists here, and realize that human nature IS perfectible given enough knocks on the head, and door.

But honestly folks, who really NEEDS to repeat 12th grade three times?

I believe that DIFFERENCES IN WORLDVIEWS AND EXPERIENCES affect how different people look at spiritual doctrines.

Someone who has been abused and downtrodden will have GUT almost physical reactions to certain situations, words, and even ideas.

Someone who has led a life of relative ease will have others.

For example, a young girl or boy who has been abandoned repeatedly in their youth may find trust difficult in later life.

Some people seem more jaded or cynical, emotional armor, others seek certain experiences or situations, while avoiding others.

So I try to tread easy when talking about my beliefs and those of others, bear with me please.

I think that we can all note that life in many parts of the world is harder than life in the West, who the heck wants to be a out-caste garbage scavenger in Bombay for 3 incarnations?

There are specific Weltenschuungs in the West, and in the East, that are shared across many cultures. THESE SHARED WORLD VIEWS AFFECT CULTURE AND LANGUAGE AND RELIGION.

This effects things a great deal, I think. For example, traditionally Afghani and Central Asian Muslim cultures have things in common with the Chinese taoists, as part of their general worldviews, shared across Central Asia.

Arab Muslim cultures share much in their worldviews as crystalised in their culture with Mediteranian peoples, and in Southern Arabia with some African peoples.

Now I think that reincarnation of the SOUL is a different matter than reincarnation of the SPIRIT.

In our culture today the two words are interchangable, but once, not so very long ago, there was less ambiguity.

Part of the problem is that CHURCH DOCTRINE DIVIDED REALITY INTO TWO SPHERES, Spirit, and Matter.

In Ancient times this was not the case, there has ALWAYS been an intermediate dimension betweeh matter and spirit.

The Alchemists know of this, and we discuss it here, this is the DAEMONIC, the PSYCHIC dimensions of reality.

The SOUL. The soul is intermediate between the spirit and matter. In Arabic Spirit is Ruh. Soul is Nafs. Body is Jism.

WE REJECT TRANSMIGRATION OF THE SELF, the soul, the psyche. The individual Ego. Indeed many buddhist teach that there IS NO PERMINANT SELF so what is there to reincarnate?

HOWVER, in a sense, we can argue for a transmigration of the Atman. Now is Atman our soul? No, it is the spiritual essence beyond this soul.

There is one true Self, one true atman. One true Being. Here we arrive at the doorsteps of a mystery.

Lastly (yay!)

Reincarnation and the Jinn.

Now what are we? Our physical bodies? No, our psychic bodies? Well the etheric and astral bodies are also shells, our Psyches are not us, we are like onion skins wrapped about each other, hence we are MULTI DIMENSIONAL, living and existing in MULTIPLE dimensions

While outward exoteric Islam explains the minimum needed for humanity to live their life with intent and purpose, and to create SOCIETIES enabling spiritual pursuit (this is the true purpose of the Shariat law, to order human society to the minimum degree necessary to remove gross oppression, and create enough balance so that humanity can turn to inner pursuits without obstructions, if they choose to do so, and if they choose not to do so, at least to prevent them from making too many problems for those who do)

Inward esoteric Islam's scholars saw fit to further investigate reality. Thus many Dervish thinkers arrived at beliefs that when born OUR SOULS PASS AND LIVE THROUGH MULTIPLE WORLDS, sometimes getting stuck in one, so to speak, and acquiring colors and traits from that world.

I refer interested readers to the writings of Hazrat Innyat Khan Sufi.

Our souls may live in the realms of hurqalya, whence the Jinn come, and acquire the traits of the Jinn, including a fondness and disposition towards music, poetry, the arts, and a fiery temperament. There are many other planes and worlds and passage through them may yield their traits on people. So traits, skills, even memories of other lives ARE from other lives...

But in other dimensions and worlds.

The New Age concept of an "Oversoul" is a simplification of an ancient dervish teaching, I explained the inhale/exhale pulse of creation (interested readers are refered to the writings of Ibn Arabi, Mulla Sadra, and Suhrawardi, as translated in English).

Now it is known that ALL IN THIS WORLD IS A SYMBOL, a mirror image, of objects in ANOTHER WORLD. This is the secret of magick. The other world is Hurqalya, or "the astral plane", which is itself a MIRROR of another world, and so on.

Hence our rejection of "flat" frequency based models of meta-reality popular in New Age circles, these models have truth within them but only explain part of the story. The levels of reality that are more dense, and solid, are those on the periphery, imagine a GREAT WHEEL, with spokes, and bands on each level until the circle's hub and midpoint.

At the circle's midpoint A SINGLE POINT, this point irreducible. Imagine, here, "Allah", beyond gender, beyond form, formless, ancient of days, encompassing all gender, all possibilities. Imagine a great sun, irridating light outward, EVERY FORM IN THIS WORLD is a mirror image of an archetype, in a   world of suspended images, that world, a mirror image of other worlds, and so on. EVERY FORM MANIFESTS A "NAME" of Allah in some way, a human being or a Jinn manifests Allah's names and attributes, such as life, sight, hearing, and other harder to explain ones IN A UNIQUE CONFIGURATION, our BODIES are reflections of other BODIES in other worlds until we cease to be forms and are "essences" or spirits, these spirits are manifestations of a "Lord", a "Rab", a divine name, this is the master Archetype of who and what we are.

It is what New Age circles call "an oversoul". It is a trait and attribute of Allah, Allah as manifested to the creation since Allah is in essence beyond manifestation. One Lord has manifested itself in MANY separate smaller selves throughout time and space and all the worlds, ALL of the Worlds, known and unknown. Thus it is said that "He who knows himself knows his Lord"

Thus the Prophet Muhammad taught that there were many earths and upon each of those earths is an Adam like our Adam, and even a Muhammad like our Muhammad.

And it is not proper for me to speak and speculate in idle fancy along such topics much further, beyond what is needed to stimulate conversation, and debate, for I believe that it is by comparing ideas boldly and yet with grace that we may grow in knowledge and lore. Perhaps there is much within this in which I an incorrect and my correction may come by the words of a fellow reader.  The interested reader can pursue them to her or his heart's content further with the above as an aid to his or her research.

I close with the traditional benediction; anything of good in this is from Allah, anything other is from my ego-self (al-Nafs), and truly Allah knows best, so praise to the Lord of the worlds and salutations upon his Prophets and their loved ones. Upon you, reader, I wish peace.

Hey, I'm new here[:P], but I do have a simple question. Trying to find ties I suppose. [;)] I heard reference to Jesus being accept as a prophet in Muslim religion, which I already knew. But what I don't know is, does Christian religion accept Prophet Muhammad, as a prophet? Also, why is Muhammad considered the last prophet? I'm just a humble person simply seeking answers and insights. Many people believe Martin Luther and MalcolmX were prophets, not sure, but they were martyred. So what would they be seen as in the light of religious beliefs of Muslims?[?]

Robert Bruce, I think your brilliant [:)]
Iv Got All You Books & Love Your Website

Dear Friends,

I will try to touch on some of the topics brought up.

First the one that i didn't see answered, was the question that how is it that God is All merciful and compassionate, yet the Quran speaks of punishment from God for those who don't believe.

The Islamic ideology is that we humans have been created for divine service. We are God's servant, his deputies on this world. He loves us more then we can possibly imagine.

However, just like a father who love his children, God does not want us to go astray. These punishments are like slaps on the wrist, to discipline us back to the way.

Islam is also like a doorway. There is So much more than what you see in the Quran. The Quran is like a window to the infinite. It has all knowledge in there, you just have to be at a certain levels to understand the different wisdoms. This is what Sufism is.

www.the-heart.net has more information on these topics.

Islam does believe in the astral, and in dimensions. All humans are said to have a Hamazd, or partner. This is similar to the idea of an astral double. It is said that through discipline and worship, one can gain control of his or her hamzad, and then have it do things (like project).

Jinns are real in Islam. They are beings created of smokeless fire (which by todays science, is Plasma). They are much much stronger than humans, also they can exist in our world and 'theirs' reality ( I believe this to be the astral worlds).

Jinns are not just a concept in islam.The prophet Solomon was giving the right of control over them. Solomon's temple in Jerusalem is said to have been built by jinns. There are many more accounts of them interacting with humans.  There are sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) where he has converted jinns to Islam.

I personally know a Sufi mystic who has knowledge of jinns, Bad jinns have been known to possess humans. Most of the 'spirit' attacks that i have read about on this site are, according to Islamic belief, jinns. Real spirits, or souls rarely hurt people. The mystic knew how to remove them from a persons body, and he could even make them talk through the person and have them describe why they have possessed them. I have seen this done with my own eyes. Quite the experience.

Any more questions.[8D]

--ICWiz

Hey ya all iwas passing bye and noticed this thread, a few of my friends have opened a new website dedicated to islam, and its teachings if you have anything to ask please visit plez visit and go ahead


Kasim

www.albaraa.net

This thread was set up for the specific purpose of the friendly exploration of the Islamic Religion and its holy books.

Please feel free to share what you know, or to ask any questions that you may have!  I am looking forward to learning more about it myself!

This thread WILL be MODERATED.  All off-topic posts will be deleted. The other topic 'Islam (open discussion)' is for matters relating to Islam that do not fit the theme of 'Friendly exploration'.


Peace, Beth