Who is Allah?

[Islamis4u]

Who is Allah?

By Abu Iman Abd ar-Rahman Robert Squires. © Muslim Answers

Some of the biggest misconceptions that many non-Muslims have about Islam have to do with the word "Allah". For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God" - and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt - Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all. However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims - like Jews - reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, doesn't mean that each of these three religions worships a different God - because, as we have already said, there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be "Abrahamic Faiths", and all of them are also classified as "monotheistic". However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.

First of all, it is important to note that "Allah" is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word "Allah" being used where "God" is used in English. This is because "Allah" is the only word in the Arabic language equivalent to the English word "God" with a capital "G". Additionally, the word "Allah" cannot be made plural or given gender (i.e. masculine or feminine), which goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of God. Because of this, and also because the Qur'an, which is the holy scripture of Muslims, was revealed in the Arabic language, some Muslims use the word "Allah" for "God", even when they are speaking other languages. This is not unique to the word "Allah", since many Muslims tend to use Arabic words when discussing Islamic issues, regardless of the language which they speak. This is because the universal teachings of Islam - even though they have been translated in every major language - have been preserved in the Arabic language.

It is interesting to note that the Aramaic word "El", which is the word for God in the language that Jesus spoke, is certainly more similar in sound to the word "Allah" than the English word "God". This also holds true for the various Hebrew words for God, which are "El" and "Elah", and the plural form "Elohim". The reason for these similarities is that Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic are all Semitic languages with common origins. It should also be noted that in translating the Bible into English, the Hebrew word "El" is translated variously as "God", "god" and "angel"! This imprecise language allows different translators, based on their preconceived notions, to translate the word to fit their own views. The Arabic word "Allah" presents no such difficulty or ambiguity, since it is only used for Almighty God alone. Additionally, in English, the only difference between "god", meaning a false god, and "God", meaning the One True God, is the capital "G". In the Arabic alphabet, since it does not have capital letters, the word for God (i.e. Allah) is formed by adding the equivalent to the English word "the" (Al-) to the Arabic word for "god/God" (ilah). So the Arabic word "Allah" literally it means "The God" - the "Al-" in Arabic basically serving the same function as the capital "G" in English. Due to the above mentioned facts, a more accurate translation of the word "Allah" into English might be "The One -and-Only God" or "The One True God".

More importantly, it should also be noted that the Arabic word "Allah" contains a deep religious message due to its root meaning and origin. This is because it stems from the Arabic verb ta'allaha (or alaha), which means "to be worshipped". Thus in Arabic, the word "Allah" means "The One who deserves all worship". This, in a nutshell, is the Pure Monotheistic message of Islam. You see, according to Islam, "monotheism" is much more than simply believing in the existence of "only One God" - as seemingly opposed to two, three or more. If one understands the root meaning of the word "Allah", this point should become clear. One should understand that Islam's criticism of the other religions that claim to be "monotheistic" is not because they are "polytheistic" in the classic sense, but because they direct various forms of worship to other than Almighty God. We will discuss the meaning of worship in Islam below, however, before moving on it should be noted that many non-Muslims are unaware of the distinction between simply believing in the existence of only One God and reserving all worship for Him alone. Many Christians are painfully unaware of this point, and thus you often find them asking how Muslims can accuse the followers of Jesus, peace be upon him, of being "polytheists" when they were all "monotheistic Jews". First of all, it should be clarified that the word "polytheist" doesn't really sound right in this context, since to many it implies simply believing in the existence of more than one God. So in an Islamic context, "associators", "man-worshippers" or "creature worshippers" might be more accurate and appropriate terms - especially since Christians believe Jesus to be both "100% God and 100% man", while still paying lip-service to God's "Oneness". However, as we're previously touched upon, what is really at the root of this problem is the fact that Christians - as well as the members of other religions - don't really know what "monotheism" means - especially in the Islamic sense. All of the books, articles and papers that I've read which were written by Christians invariably limit "monotheism" to believing in the existence of "One Sovereign and Creator God". Islam, however, teaches much more than this.

Suffice it to say that just because someone claims to be a "monotheistic" Jew, Christian or Muslim, that doesn't keep them from falling into corrupt beliefs and idolatrous practices. Many people, including some Muslims, claim belief in "One God" even though they've fallen into acts of idolatry. Certainly, many Protestants accuse Roman Catholics of idolatrous practices in regards to the saints and the Virgin Mary. Likewise, the Greek Orthodox Church is considered "idolatrous" by many other Christians because in much of their worship they use icons. However, if you ask a Roman Catholic or a Greek Orthodox person if God is "One", they will invariably answer: "Yes!". This lip-service, however, does not stop them from being "creature worshipping" idolaters. The same goes for Hindus, who just consider their gods to be "manifestations" or "incarnations" of the One Supreme God.

Everyone should be aware of the fact that throughout the long history of the "Abrahamic Faiths", there have people who, while believing in "One God", have adopted beliefs and practices that completely nullify their claim to "monotheism". This is the Muslim view of Christians. We're well aware of the fact that they claim belief in "One God" with their lips, but this doesn't mean that they don't nullify their claim in other ways. This is because many people simply haven't been taught everything that Pure Monotheism entails. From an Islamic point of view, "monotheism" can be nullified in many ways. For example, simply believing that it is permissible to rule by Western "liberal" and "democratic" laws in lieu of the Divinely Revealed Law of Almighty God makes one a "polytheist". Certainly, a person who does such a thing, whether Jewish, Christian or Muslim, doesn't ever believe that there is another Almighty Creator and Sovereign Lord. However, for all practical purposes, such a person has take another "god", whether they choose to admit it or not. In this way they are associating partners with Almighty God (Arabic: shirk), and thus become a "polytheist" in a practical sense, regardless of their lip-service to "monotheism". This holds true even if the person doesn't believe what they are doing is "worship". For example, Roman Catholics who pray to the Virgin Mary will staunchly deny that they are "worshipping" her. They instead call it "adoration" or some other watered-down term. However, from an Islamic point of view, what is worship if not this? Islam teaches that prayer and supplication are the marrow of worship, so if one directs their prayers to an intermediary (even if the pray is "ultimately" meant for God), then what is left of worship? Additionally, how can someone who believes in Almighty God follow man-made laws instead of God's Law, without admitting that they've begun worshipping other than God? Do they know better than God?

Additionally, the Old Testament makes it perfectly clear that making a "graven image" of any created thing (not to mention ones which are supposed to "represent" Almighty God) is prohibited. Please see Exodus 20:4-6, Leviticus 26:1 and Deuteronomy 4:16, 23, 25, 5:8 and Nehemiah 9:6 for some statements in regards to this point. Without addressing the issue that Christians commonly violate the unambiguous commandment not to even "make" representations of anything that is in the "heavens above or on the earth beneath", these verses not only teach that worshipping idols is prohibited, but also that Almighty God is eternally distinct from His creation and thus nothing in His creation can represent Him. To believe otherwise is to be a de facto idol worshipper - even if one claims belief in one, and only one, "True God". In Exodus 20:4-6 and Deuteronomy 4:16, Almighty God - who is a "Jealous God" - makes it perfectly clear that He is distinct from His creation.

By giving such clear and merciful guidance to human beings, God is establishing a universal and eternal Truth for the benefit of mankind. This eternal Truth is the bedrock of religious guidance, since once people begin to believe that Almighty God mixes with or can be represented by His creation, they can be duped into believing almost anything. Once someone accepts that God has become "incarnate" in His creation, or that someone or something is a "manifestation" - and thus representation - of Him, the floodgates are open and "Truth" becomes a matter of subjective guesswork. Once the first and most basic concept is violated - regardless of how complicated and sophisticated the rationale for it might be - it is very easy to fall further and further away from the Eternal Truth of Pure Monotheism. In the final analysis, it is not a question of whether God is capable of becoming a man, but rather a question of whether one bases their beliefs about God on clear, unambiguous and authentic guidance. Once it is left up to the human mind to decide what Almighty God can and cannot do, the stage is set for misguidance to take root. Human speculation about God only ends up leading to misguidance and despair, since no clear conclusions can ever be reached. For example, is God capable of creating an object so heavy that He is incapable of moving it? If not, does that mean that He is incapable? It is because of misguided questions like this that Islam clearly teaches that mankind should only say about God what He has said about Himself. This means all of our ideas about God must be based on Revelation - not human speculation. In short, the final prophet of Islam - Muhammad - was sent by Almighty God to preach the same Pure Monotheism that was practiced by Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all. This Pure Monotheism means not only believing that there is only One God in existence, but realizing that He is transcedent above His creation and that all worship is due to Him alone.

Before concluding, we should probably address the practice of those Muslims who insist on using the Arabic word "Allah" even when speaking English. Even though this practice certainly is not to be condemned when it is done around those who understand the meaning of the Arabic word "Allah", it is my experience - both during my years as a non-Muslim and my years as a Muslim - that such a practice can (and usually does) breed misunderstanding. It seems that often times, many of the Muslims who use the word "Allah" in lieu of the word "God", even when trying to attract people to Islam, are unaware of the severe misunderstandings that many non-Muslims have about Islam (and the distorted way which Islam has been portrayed in the West). Insisting on using the word "Allah" only fuels the flames of misunderstanding - so there's no good reason to do it. I've often wondered what value some Muslims think that using the word "Allah" adds to the Pure Message that they are trying to convey. ( . . . and I'm still waiting for an answer!) Unfortunately, those Muslims who insist on using the word "Allah" even when addressing non-Muslims who are unfamiliar with Islam and the Arabic language, do both a disservice to themselves and their religion. Unfortunately, this practice is usually based on the false assumption - by a non-native speaker of English - that the word "God" in English is incapable of expressing a pure and proper belief in Almighty God. This is certainly false. If someone says that the English word "God" cannot be used to express the Pure Islamic Belief in Tawhid, they are wrong not because they don't understand Tawhid, but simply because they don't understand the English language. Many people who insist on using the Arabic word "Allah" usually don't realize this, because in reality, they are not so much affirming the word "Allah" as they are rejecting the word "God" as unsuitable - based on incorrect assumptions. For someone to assume that the word "God" presupposes a certain theological point-of-view (such as the Trinity) is simply Wrong - and that's Wrong with a capital "W". To say the word "God" should be rejected because it can be changed into "god", "gods" or "goddess" is illogical because each of these words has a distinctive meaning and a distinctive spelling - at least to someone who knows how to speak English correctly. Using the same logic, I can demonstrate that the root letters "ktb" can be used to form the Arabic words "kitab" (book), "maktabah" (library), "maktab" (office) and "kaatib" (writer), but does that mean that these words have the same meaning? Do Arabic-speaking people go through life confusing libraries with writers and offices with books (both in conversation and in reality)? I think not! This is not to mention the fact that if the Arabic "Al-" was put in front of these words in order to make them definite, confusion would be even less likely! So the logic in both cases is the same, and this is because even though the same letters are used in "God" and "god", these two words have two different meanings in the English language. The capital "G" implies something different than the small "g" - and anyone who denies this simply doesn't know how to speak the English language.

In concluding this point, it should be mentioned that Arabic-speaking Muslims who believe in Pure Tawhid, Arabic-speaking Christians, the idol worshippers of Mecca and (so-called) Muslims who believe in "Wahdat al-Wujud" all use the word "Allah". However, does this guarantee all of them proper belief in "Allah"? Certainly not, because if they have a corrupt concept of "Allah" it doesn't matter what word they use!

This brings us to a more important point: It should be clearly understood that what Islam is primarily concerned with is correcting mankind's concept of Almighty God. What we are ultimately going to be held accountable at the end of our life is not whether we prefer the word "Allah" over the word "God", but what our concept of God is. Language is only a side issue. A person can have an incorrect concept of God while using the word "Allah", and likewise a person can have a correct concept of God while using the word "God". This is because both of these words are equally capable of being misused and being improperly defined. As we've already mentioned, using the word "Allah" no more insinuates belief in the Unity of God than the use of the word "God" insinuates belief in the Trinity - or any other theological opinion. Naturally, when God sends a revelation to mankind through a prophet, He is going to send it in a language that the people who receive it can understand and relate to. Almighty God makes this clear in the Qur'an, when He states:

"Never did We send a Messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people in order to make (things) clear to them."

(Qur'an, Chapter 14 - "Abraham", Verse 4)

As Muslims, we think that it is unfortunate that we have to go into details on such seemingly minor issues, but so many falsehoods have been heaped upon our religion, that we feel that it is our duty to try to break down the barriers of falsehood. This isn't always easy, since there is a lot of anti-Islamic literature in existence which tries to make Islam look like something strange and foreign to Westerners. There are some people out there, who are obviously not on the side of truth, that want to get people to believe that "Allah" is just some Arabian "god", and that Islam is completely "other" - meaning that it has no common roots with the other Abrahamic religions (i.e. Christianity and Judaism). To say that Muslims worship a different "God" because they say "Allah" is just as illogical as saying that French people worship another God because they use the word "Dieu", that Spanish-speaking people worship a different God because they say "Dios" or that the Hebrews worshipped a different God because they sometimes call Him "Yahweh". Certainly, reasoning like this is quite ridiculous! It should also be mentioned, that claiming that any one language uses the only the correct word for God is tantamount to denying the universality of God's message to mankind, which was to all nations, tribes and people through various prophets who spoke different languages.

Before closing, we would like everyone to be aware of the fact that some Christian missionary organizations print English literature intended to teach Christians about Islam which say such things as: "Allah is the god of the Muslims" and that "Muhammad came to get people to believe in the god Allah" - implying that "Allah" is some sort of false "god". However, when these same organizations print literature in the Arabic language, hoping to lead Arabic-speaking Muslims "to Christ", they use the word "Allah" for God. It seems that if they were on the side of truth, they would not have to resort to such inconsistencies. And on an even more ridiculous note . . . there are also missionary organizations that exceed this in ignorance (or deceit) by writing books that call on Muslims to give up their belief in "Allah", and instead worship the "Lord" Jesus, "the Son of God". Besides making it abundantly clear that they are outside the community of Pure Monotheism, the people who write such material don't even realize that if they wrote such a pamphlet in Arabic, it would be self-contradictory. This is because in an Arabic Bible Jesus is the "Son of Allah"! If an Arabic-speaking person gave up the worship of "Allah", they would have no God to worship, since "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for God!

Before we conclude, however, we would like to ask our readers to ask themselves what they think the reasons are behind all of these lies? If Islam was just some false religion that didn't make any sense, would so many people, from Western scholars to Christian missionaries, have to tell so many lies about it? The reason is that the Ultimate Truth of Islam stands on solid ground and its unshakable belief in the Unity of God is above reproach. Due to this, Christians can't criticize its doctrines directly, but instead make up things about Islam that aren't true so that people lose the desire to learn more. If Muslims were able to present Islam in the proper way to people in the West, it surely might make many people reconsider and re-evaluate their own beliefs. It is quite likely that Christians, when they find out that there is a universal religion in the world that teaches people to worship and love God, while also practicing Pure Monotheism, would at least feel that they should re-examine the basis for their own beliefs and doctrines.

[Nay]

Wow...two really long post in ONE night!  Woot, look at you go!

But once again, like I said on your other post...I'm confused as to what it is you are wanting to accomplish.  I almost feel like a child in a classroom with you spouting stuff at me.  No.....I'm sorry, that's wrong,  it feels like I'm a child in a highchair and you are shoving some kind of stuff down my throat.  That's it!.

Nay

[Islamis4u]

haha... once again I didnt write this article either. Someone else wrote it.

If you want to see some articles I wrote, then goto

http://clearproof.faithweb.com/book.htm

http://clearproof.faithweb.com/enlightenment.htm

Im simply trying to inform and convey unto people the message of Islam, it is not about conversion:

"Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning). " [Surah  Al-Isra' verse [15]]

"So if they dispute with you (Muhammad ) say: "I have submitted myself to Allah (in Islam), and (so have) those who follow me." And say to those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and to those who are illiterates (Arab pagans): "Do you (also) submit yourselves (to Allah in Islam)?" If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message; and Allah is All-Seer of (His ) slaves. " [3:20]

And you say I am trying to shove stuff down your throat. Islam is the truth from Allah(God), believe in it, or dont believe in it. Yet it seems as if people hear the word "Qur'an" and they automatically think falsehood and fabrication. Or they hear the word "Muhammad" and they automatically think terrorist and liar. Yet if you seek to be guided to the true path that is revealed by God, then study Islam and you will find that such ignorant assumptions about Islam(made by non-muslism) are very far from the truth.

[exothen]

Islamis4u,

I'm confused. First you post this in Modern Christianity:

The Qur'an describes itself as a confirmation of the scriptures that came before it:

"It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you (Muhammad ) with truth, confirming what came before it. And He sent down the Torah and the Gospel." [The Qur'an 3:2]

We believe in all the Messengers from Moses, to Abraham, to Jesus, and of course the final Messenger Muhammad.(peace be upon them all):

Say (O Muhammad ): "We believe in God and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the twelve sons of Jacob and what was given to Moses, Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (God) we have submitted (in Islam)." [The Qur'an 3:84]

The Qur'an says:

"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of God aught but the truth. The Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, was (no more than) a Messenger of God and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in God and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For God is (the only) One God, Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And God is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs. " [The Qur'an 4:171]

"Say: O People of the Scripture(Jews and Christians)! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but God, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside God. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him)." [3:64]

"They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! God is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto God, for him God hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! God is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

Will they not rather turn unto Godand seek forgiveness of Him ? For God is Forgiving, Merciful.

The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!" [5:72-75]

The Qur'an contains numerous verses about the birth of Jesus, his miracles, his message, the crucifixion etc.

And then you post this in here:

It is quite likely that Christians, when they find out that there is a universal religion in the world that teaches people to worship and love God, while also practicing Pure Monotheism, would at least feel that they should re-examine the basis for their own beliefs and doctrines.

How is it that you and the Qur'an claim that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, yet your post states that Christians should change their beliefs and worship the God of Islam? I assure you, the Christian God and the Muslim God are very different as you imply.

Also, the first post shows that the Qur'an states that it is a "confirmation of the scriptures that came before it," yet that the way Christians interpret it is wrong. How is it that Islam can tell Christians how to interpret the Bible? How does the Qur'an confirm "the scriptures that came before it" when it contradicts them and reinterprets them for its own use?

Remember, Muhammed came 600 years after Christ and the span between scriptures is about the same. I would much rather believe what the Christian Bible states about Jesus than the Qur'an which came 600 years later. How is it that you believe what the Qur'an says about Jesus yet refuse to believe what he said about himself in the Bible? How is Christ just a messenger when he claimed equality with God?

There is no reason to accept the Qur'an above the Bible or even as inspired by God.

[Islamis4u]

How is it that you and the Qur'an claim that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, yet your post states that Christians should change their beliefs and worship the God of Islam? I assure you, the Christian God and the Muslim God are very different as you imply.

We believe that the God Muslims worship is the same god that all the Messengers were sent to worship. It is the God who revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

We believe that the Christians deviated from the original teachings of Jesus(peace be upon him) of pure monotheism(worshipping none but God).

This is not something of blind faith but rahter it is of historical basis:

It says in the American Encyclopedia:

"The belief in the Oneness of God – as a theological movement – began at a very early stage in history, and in fact it preceded the belief in trinity by many decades. Christianity developed from Judaism, and Judaism firmly believes that there is one God.

The path that led from Jerusalem (the home of the first disciples of Christ) to Nicea (where it was decided in 325 CE that Christ was equal to God in essence and eternal nature) can hardly be described as a straight path.

The doctrine of trinity which was affirmed in the fourth century CE bears no resemblance to the original teachings of Christ concerning the nature of God. Au contraire, it is the opposite, a deviation from that teaching. Hence it developed in opposition to the belief in One God... (27/294).
"



Even in the altered New Testament, Jesus's(peace be upon him) message of monotheism is reiterated:

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.

And he said to him, 'I will give you all their authority and splendour, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.

So if you worship me, it will all be yours.'

Jesus answered, 'It is written: "Worship the Lord your God and serve him only."'"

Luke 4:5-8 – NIV



'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?'

'The most important one,' answered Jesus, 'is this: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

The second is this: "Love your neighbour as yourself." There is no commandment greater than these.'

'Well said, teacher,' the man replied. 'You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

To love him with all your heart, with you all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself is more important that all burnt offerings and sacrifices.'

When Jesus saw that he has answered wisely, he said to him, 'You are not far from the kingdom of God.' And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions."

Mark 12:28-34 – NIV

Also, the first post shows that the Qur'an states that it is a "confirmation of the scriptures that came before it," yet that the way Christians interpret it is wrong. How is it that Islam can tell Christians how to interpret the Bible? How does the Qur'an confirm "the scriptures that came before it" when it contradicts them and reinterprets them for its own use?

Muslims believe that the Bible that the Christians have today is not the same exact scripture that was revealed to Jesus(peace be upon him). Rather, it was tampered at the hands of men and was changed by people who came after Jesus. The Qur'an confirms the original Bible that was revealed. The Qur'an may contradict some of the verses we see in the Bible today, but we dont believe it contradicts what was originally revealed unto Jesus(peace be upon him).

The Suhuf was brought by Abraham, the Torah (part of the Old Testament) by Moses, the Zabur (Psalms) by David, and the Injil (New Testament) by Jesus. None of the these scriptures remains in their original form. As part of Allah's original plan, He finally sent Muhammad as the seal of all prophets and with the Qur'an as a guidance for all mankind, anywhere and anytime.

We believe that every prophet before Muhammad(peace be upon him) was only sent to their own people(not to all of mankind). Jesus himsself said(according to the Bible we know today) that he was only sent to the Children of Israel: (Matthew 15:24): "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

There is proof that the Bible has been tampered with and is not the complete word of God. There are many contradictions in the Bible and later we could discuss them if you want.

II Samuel 8:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen ...

I Chronicles 18:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen ...

Remember, Muhammed came 600 years after Christ and the span between scriptures is about the same. I would much rather believe what the Christian Bible states about Jesus than the Qur'an which came 600 years later. How is it that you believe what the Qur'an says about Jesus yet refuse to believe what he said about himself in the Bible? How is Christ just a messenger when he claimed equality with God?

Tell me where in the Bible Jesus(peace be upon him) says that he is God ? Did  Jesus ever tell people to worship him?

Here is a verse for you:

"A certain ruler asked him: 'Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?'

'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good – except God alone.'"

Luke 18:18-19 – NIV

If Jesus was god, why would Jesus negate goodness for himself and affirm it for God?

Likewise, there are verses in the Bible speaking of Jesus falling on his face praying to God: tell me, why would God fall down on his face to pray to God?

(I Timothy 2:5): "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

There is much more evidence and Id be happy to bring more.

[exothen]

The doctrine of trinity which was affirmed in the fourth century CE bears no resemblance to the original teachings of Christ concerning the nature of God. Au contraire, it is the opposite, a deviation from that teaching. Hence it developed in opposition to the belief in One God... (27/294).

Christianity is monotheistic and the Trinity is not polytheism. The doctrine of the Trinity is simply an attempt to take into account all that the Scriptures say about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Bible paints a complex picture of God's nature.

Muslims believe that the Bible that the Christians have today is not the same exact scripture that was revealed to Jesus(peace be upon him). Rather, it was tampered at the hands of men and was changed by people who came after Jesus.

Yes, but there is aboslutely no historical or factual basis for believing this. The Scripture has been verified to be over 99% pure, or accurate. That is, it is closer to the originals than any other book of antiquity. There is no reason at all to believe that it was tampered with. None.

If the Qur'an confirms the scriptures that came before it, then it confirms the very scriptures I have in my hand, scriptures that would show Islam to be false.

The Qur'an may contradict some of the verses we see in the Bible today, but we dont believe it contradicts what was originally revealed unto Jesus(peace be upon him)....None of the these scriptures remains in their original form.

But this is not based on any evidence. The only reason for this false argument is to try and make the Qur'an equal with the Bible. But since the Bible came 600 years before the Qur'an and refutes it, the Qur'an is not Scripture.

Jesus himsself said(according to the Bible we know today) that he was only sent to the Children of Israel: (Matthew 15:24): "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Yes, but Jesus himself sent the 12 into "all the world" to preach salvation through Christ alone.

Tell me where in the Bible Jesus(peace be upon him) says that he is God ? Did Jesus ever tell people to worship him?

Joh 20:28  Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
Joh 20:29  Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Joh 20:30  Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
Joh 20:31  but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Notice that Jesus didn't deny he was God. Thomas worships Jesus and Jesus says and does nothing to stop him.

Joh 8:56  Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."
Joh 8:57  So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58  Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
Joh 8:59  So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Not only does Jesus say that he existed before Abraham, he calls himself the "I Am." This is what God told Moses to call him in Exodus 3:14. The Jews also recognized that when Jesus used the term "Son of God," he was claiming equality with God:

Joh 10:30  "I and the Father are one."
Joh 10:31  The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32  Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?"
Joh 10:33  The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God."

Joh 8:23  He said to them, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24  I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."

I added the emphasis in verse 24 because "he" isn't in the original Greek, which is very significant. Again, Jesus is using a name of God, "I Am," and here he links it with salvation.

Here is a verse for you:

"A certain ruler asked him: 'Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?'

'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good – except God alone.'"

Luke 18:18-19 – NIV

Jesus asked a rhetorical question with the obvious answer being that he is God because he is good.

Likewise, there are verses in the Bible speaking of Jesus falling on his face praying to God: tell me, why would God fall down on his face to pray to God?

Jesus was God in human flesh, God incarnate (John 1:1-3,14). He voluntarily "emptied himself" of some aspects of being God (Philippians 2:6-8). Although Christ was God, he was also human. He experienced all that we experience and when faced with his death, which is the whole reason he came, it was obviously anguishing. So he prayed for strength to do what he was here to do.

(I Timothy 2:5): "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

This is not denying the deity of Christ; it is affirming his humanity and that he alone is mediator between God and man, precisely because he is God and man. This is also affirming the monotheism of Christianity.

You can bring more if you like.

[Islamis4u]

But this is not based on any evidence. The only reason for this false argument is to try and make the Qur'an equal with the Bible. But since the Bible came 600 years before the Qur'an and refutes it, the Qur'an is not Scripture.

Actually the idea that the New Testament that we have today is authentic and proven valid is not based on any evidence. The New Testament has no chain of narrations which lead back to Jesus (peace be upon him.)

The Interpreter's Dictionary Of The Bible confirms that:

The original copies of the NT books have, of course, long since disappeared. This fact should not cause surprise. In the first place, they were written on papyrus, a very fragile and persihable material. In the second place, and probably of even more importance, the original copies of the NT books were not looked upon as scripture by those of the early Christian communities.

In the book, Aland & Aland, The Text Of The New Testament, p. 69.  Kurt and Barbara Aland say:


Until the beginning of the fourth century the text of the New Testament developed freely. It was the "living text" in the Greek literary tradition, unlike the text of the Hebrew Old Testament, which was subject to strict controls because (in the oriental tradition) the consonantal text was holy. And the New Testament text continued to be a "living text" as long as it remained a manuscript tradition, even when the Byzantine church molded it to the procrustean bed of the standard and officially prescribed text. Even for later scribes, for example, the parallel passages of the Gospels were so familiar that they would adapt the text of one Gospel to that of another. They also felt themselves free to make corrections in the text, improving it by their own standard of correctness, whether grammatically, stylistically, or more substantively. This was all the more true of the early period, when the text had not been attained canonical status, especially in the earliest period when Christians considered themselves to be filled with the Spirit. As a consequence the text of the early period was many-faceted, and each manuscript had its own peculiar character.

Further they compare and contrast the New Testament with the Old Testament as well as the Qur'an. The 'living text' of the New Testament is

in contrast to the Hebrew Old Testament and other oriental traditions such as the Koran, where an almost letter-perfect transcription was the rule.

I challenge you to bring proof of the New Testament's authenticity.

Joh 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Joh 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Actually a further look into Thomas's exclamation shows that he was simply yelling out "My Lord and my God!" not as a statement directed towards Jesus, but rather as a statement of suprise and astonishment. Like how we say today when we are amazed at something or suprised: (example) "Oh my God, Billy look at that!" Christian scholars such as Theodore of Mopsuestia (c.350-428), the Bishop of Mopsuestia, interpreted this verse to not be directed at Jesus but at God "the Father."

The Jews also recognized that when Jesus used the term "Son of God," he was claiming equality with God:

Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
Joh 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?"
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God."

Jesus replies to this accusation(of the Jews) saying: "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, "I said ye are gods. If He can call them gods, unto whom the word of God came, say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, "Thou blasphemeth," because I said I am the son of God?'" (John 10:34-36).

as for what it says Jesus said "I and the Father are one",  this is misunderstood.
If you look at the verses before it, it can be understood in context:

"...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."

Elsewhere it says that Jesus said:

John 17:20-22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in
them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".

In this verse the same word in Greek is used(HEN) as in the other versse, yet in this verse it is used to describe Jesus, the' Father', and Jesus's 12 disciples. If John 10:30  is used as proof to Jesus being god, then John 17:20-22 would therefore be proof that his disciples are god too. You may say that the verse reltaing to him and his disciples refers to Jesus's relationship with his disciples, but you would have no proof of it. The same Greek word is used in both verses.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."
Joh 8:57 So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
Joh 8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Not only does Jesus say that he existed before Abraham, he calls himself the "I Am." This is what God told Moses to call him in Exodus 3:14

.

From Sheikh Ahmed Deedat's work; may Allah Almighty rest his soul and grant him Paradise (Ameen):

It is claimed that Jesus used the words, "I am", and since these same words were used by God to describe Himself to the people in the Old Testament, Jesus was claiming to be God. John 8:58, is presented to back this claim. In the verse, Jesus says: " Before Abraham was I am. (John 8:58 )"  Now, if Jesus existed before Abraham did, that might be a remarkable thing, but does that prove that he was God?

How many people existed before Abraham?  The Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.  (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)"  Yet no one says that his pre-human existence qualifies him for deity.  In Exodus chapter 3, God allegedly says: "I am what I am." Long before the time of Jesus, there existed a Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. The key word, "I am," in Exodus which is used by Christians to prove the deity of Jesus is translated as "HO ON." However, when Jesus uses the word in John 8:58 the Greek of the "I am," is EGO EIMI. If Jesus wanted to tell the Jews that he was claiming to be God he should have at least remained consistent in the use of words or the whole point is lost. How many people in that age would have said "I am," in answer to questions in everyday life. Billions. Are they all gods? Of course not !.

[kalratri]

But this is not based on any evidence. The only reason for this false argument is to try and make the Qur'an equal with the Bible. But since the Bible came 600 years before the Qur'an and refutes it, the Qur'an is not Scripture.

Actually the idea that the New Testament that we have today is authentic and proven valid is not based on any evidence. The New Testament has no chain of narrations which lead back to Jesus (peace be upon him.)

The Quran too was written or put to paper AFTER Mohammad died.  How do you know it too was not altered?  Transmission of most religious texts which was based on memory is probably flawed to some extent.

[Islamis4u]

The Quran too was written or put to paper AFTER Mohammad died. How do you know it too was not altered? Transmission of most religious texts which was based on memory is probably flawed to some extent.

The Qur'an was written down by the companions during the Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) life. There is evidence from both the Qur'an and the hadiths:

"By no means! Indeed it is a message of Instruction
Therefore, whoever wills, should remember
On leaves held in honour
Exalted, purified
In the hands of scribes
Noble and pious"
Sura' 80: 11-16


At the time of the Prophet(peace be upon him), some of his companions wrote the Qur'an down on leaves. Minister Abdullah Yusuf Ali, in his commentary  wrote that at the time of the Revelation of this Surah(chapter), forty-two or forty-five others (Surahs) had been written and were kept by Muslims in Makkah (out of the total 114 Surahs).

"Nay, this is the glorious Qur'an, on a Tablet preserved"
Sura' 85: 21-22

"This is a glorious Reading, In a book well-kept,
Which none but the purified teach
This is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds"
Sura' 56: 77-80

"They said: Tales of the ancients which he had caused to be written and they are dictated to him morning and evening"
25: 5

The above verse refers to the Prophet's(peace be upon him) enemies who said that the Qur'an was simply tales of ancients that he wrote down.

Zayd (ra) is reported to have said:  

We used to compile the Qur'an from small scraps in the presence of the Messenger. (Hakim, Mustadrak)

Narrated Qatadah: I asked Anas Ibn Malik: 'Who collected the Qur'an at the time of Prophet?' He replied: 'Four, all of whom were from the Ansar: Ubay Ibn Ka'ab, Mu'adh Ibn Jabal, Zayd Ibn Thabit and Abu Zayd.' (Bukhari, Kitab Fada'ilu'l-Qur'an)


It should be taken into account that hundreds of the companions of the Prophet(peace be upon him) memorized the entire Qur'an down to every single letter. This tradition(of memorizing the Qur'an) is still practiced today by millions of Muslims.

Abu Bakr, one of the very close friends of the Prophet, and the first caliph of Islam(successor fo the Prophet), compiled the entire Qur'an together. At the Battle of Yamama, many of the companions who had memorized the entire Qur'an were martyred, so Abu Bakr ordered the personal scribe of the Prophet [Zaid ibn Thabit] to compile the Qur'an for him.

Likewise, the fourth caliph Uthman collected the Qur'an as written by abu bakr and wrote copies of it for each city under Muslim rule.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/


Likewise, there is  only one Qur'an in every single part of this globe today. There are no variants, no differences. There is only one single Noble Qur'an in the arabic languages that millions of Muslims read:

William Muir says:

The recension of Uthmân has been handed down to us unaltered. so carefully, indeed, has it been preserved, that there are no variations of importance, - we might almost say no variations at all, - amongst the innumerable copies of the Koran scattered throughout the vast bounds of empire of Islam. Contending and embittered factions, taking their rise in the murder of cUthmân himself within a quarter of a century from the death of Muhammad have ever since rent the Muslim world. Yet but ONE KORAN has always been current amongst them.... There is probably in the world no other work which has remained twelve centuries with so pure a text.

[Gandalf]

Neither Christian or Muslim sides are going to convince the other no matter how clever the rhetoric or theological trickery; thats the hellenistic influence; clever rhetoric and theology.. anyone can argue with validity for as long as they like, while their beards grow long

In the end, choose and stick with it.

Doug

my two euros.