Logic

[James S]

How many existentialists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?




Only one, but first the lightbulb has to proove it exists!

[beavis]

Its possible that all of Sinestro's posts were made by random errors on a computer that was left on for a long time. Maybe the memory changes its contents randomly. It would be astronomically unlikely, but I see no 100% proof that Sinestro exists.

[Logic]

quote:Originally posted by Sinestro

quote:Prove to me you exist

Logic this is to you, the believer who poses this question, I can only respond with "I know I exist, but apparently you only believe you exist."

I know I exist because I get knowledge of my existence every second of my conscious life directly from my feelings, perceptions, or thoughts; no belief required. Belief only introduces an unnecessary proposition. I can simply say "I exist," instead of "I believe I exist." My knowledge of existence comes from experience, not belief. The elimination of beliefs, makes our statements more concise, accurate and meaningful.

However, when one only believes in their existence, they automatically reduce their entire life to an abstraction: a belief. In effect, they have put an unnecessary barrier between their minds and the world around them.

I never said I "know" I exist, infact, I probably don't. You can't indefinitly prove anything to me, let alone prove to yourself that you exist, but you can hold on to your conviction of existance. Perhaps most of the mistunderstanding here can be blamed on the posibility that perhaps we both have different understandings of what it means to exist.

In my opinion, perception is not evidence, nor is any object, concept, feeling, thought, or anything, able to prove anything, even itself. Reality is subjective, paradigms are temporary and facts are always rearranging.

quote:How many existentialists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?




Only one, but first the lightbulb has to proove it exists!

hehe []

edit:

Why is this in modern christianity? Do you still think I am a christian?

[Sinestro]

This question was to Logic not to Bevis and James S. So Logic If you are not a Christain then let me guess you are an Athiest right? Well Logic is all that I can say is that I have never called myself an atheist, nor do I honor that label. There occurs many forms of atheism, some of which rely on faith or belief. I do not wish to attach a label that misleads, nor do I find it useful to title any one particular disbelief. I have an infinite number of unbeliefs, including disbeliefs in fairies, goblins, and ghosts. However, if you wish to know my position relative to atheism, I stand about as far from atheism as an atheist to a theist. But if you persist in painting me in a way which makes it convenient for you to disagree with me, then you have only fostered your own ignorance. You can fool yourself if you wish, but you'll only prevent yourself from understanding other people's point of view. Also Logic if you tell me that I hate Christains and God well how can someone possibly hate something for which they have no belief in? I have no reason to hate an alleged god any more than I do Zeus or Captain Hook. Nor do I hate Christians, and although I feel sorry for them, most of my friends describe themselves as Christian. Most of my friends tell me that without religion my life cannont have value, although religion which promotes eternal life tends to create a valueless life. Value relates to limits of time and amount. Just as if diamonds became abundant, their value would decrease, eternal lives would also lose their value. A valued life must have limits. Observe people who come close to death or experience a tragedy. Their lives become more precious as a result of learning of their own fragility and mortality. A life believed to go on forever loses its meaning in a sea of infinity. Note that religions have (and still do) promote wars and killings based on beliefs of an eternal judgement of God. The Bible teaches to dismiss the life of earth for the rewards in heaven. I cannot imagine a more bankrupt form of morality. But as a disbeliever I have appreciated in value from the uncertainties of life. What fantastic and contingent luck to live even a short life as a conscious animal in this universe!

[Nay]

This question was to Logic not to Bevis and James S.

Why do you have such an attitude?  I don't get it.[]  I can't even read a few lines in your posts without feeling your anger, why is that?

What is your real beef?  Are you just totally bored or something and love to argue?

Oh and if you haven't noticed, this is a public forum so anyone can comment on your posts and hopefully without the fear of getting some nasty arse remark..

BTW, James..that was funny..[]

Nay

[Logic]

quote:So Logic If you are not a Christain then let me guess you are an Athiest right?

There are more than two forms of religion other than atheism and christianity, however I am not religious.

quote:But if you persist in painting me in a way which makes it convenient for you to disagree with me, then you have only fostered your own ignorance. You can fool yourself if you wish, but you'll only prevent yourself from understanding other people's point of view.

I don't have to change anything to disagree with you, I pretty much disagree with you completely as you are.

quote:Also Logic if you tell me that I hate Christains and God well how can someone possibly hate something for which they have no belief in?

I never said you hate christians, stop jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth.

quote:Most of my friends tell me that without religion my life cannont have value, although religion which promotes eternal life tends to create a valueless life. Value relates to limits of time and amount. Just as if diamonds became abundant, their value would decrease, eternal lives would also lose their value. A valued life must have limits. Observe people who come close to death or experience a tragedy. Their lives become more precious as a result of learning of their own fragility and mortality. A life believed to go on forever loses its meaning in a sea of infinity.

Hmm.. interesting..

I'm curious as to why you are singling me out on these forums.

[Sinestro]

On the contrary Nay, It certainly would constitute circular reasoning if my writing represented my beliefs. However, I own no beliefs. I may make statements of either fact (supported by evidence), observation, speculation, imagination, or desire, but I do not state, nor do I claim any belief. Furthermore, all my statements lay open to revision and change depending on the reliability of further evidence; none of them attempt to establish absolute "truths." At no point do I call to make fun of or as you call it have "Beef" with anyone or of any idea or belief that anyone may have on this forum or site. People have the inalienable right to believe or not believe whatever they wish, regardless of how silly or unworkable their beliefs. I(at least this freethinker)have the capability to protect myself from dangerous ideas.

[Nay]

quote:Originally posted by Sinestro

On the contrary Nay, It certainly would constitute circular reasoning if my writing represented my beliefs. However, I own no beliefs. I may make statements of either fact (supported by evidence), observation, speculation, imagination, or desire, but I do not state, nor do I claim any belief. Furthermore, all my statements lay open to revision and change depending on the reliability of further evidence; none of them attempt to establish absolute "truths." At no point do I call to make fun of or as you call it have "Beef" with anyone or of any idea or belief that anyone may have on this forum or site. People have the inalienable right to believe or not believe whatever they wish, regardless of how silly or unworkable their beliefs. I(at least this freethinker)have the capability to protect myself from dangerous ideas.

I'll be honest, I read your words and the fly over my head.  I'm just a country girl after all, so perhaps that is it.[]  Or perhaps you try and cover your true feelings with words?  

For example when you said....People have the inalienable right to believe or not believe whatever they wish, regardless of how silly or unworkable their beliefs.    Is that a backdoor way of saying that our beliefs are silly and unworkable?

You're good with words, that is fantastic, but when used in a negative way, it can be like a knife, but I'm thinking you already knew that.[]

Nay

[SomeBloke]

quote:I(at least this freethinker)have the capability to protect myself from dangerous ideas.

i.e. Be dismissive of ideas you find uncomfortable or challenging to your world view?

You are clever, and I think clever enough that one day you will realise that there is a limit to what all that intellectualising can accomplish in terms of explaining the mysteries of life, especially in the absence of any supramundane experience.  Perhaps then you will turn to 'unscientific' and 'dangerous' ideas such as meditation... Kind of reminds me of someone.
I wish you luck in your search.

p.s. You got Nay to say 'nasty a*se' with NO ASTERISKS! Boy did you hit a nerve.  She has a way with words too.

[Sinestro]

quote:Prove to me you exist

Logic this is to you, the believer who poses this question, I can only respond with "I know I exist, but apparently you only believe you exist."

I know I exist because I get knowledge of my existence every second of my conscious life directly from my feelings, perceptions, or thoughts; no belief required. Belief only introduces an unnecessary proposition. I can simply say "I exist," instead of "I believe I exist." My knowledge of existence comes from experience, not belief. The elimination of beliefs, makes our statements more concise, accurate and meaningful.

However, when one only believes in their existence, they automatically reduce their entire life to an abstraction: a belief. In effect, they have put an unnecessary barrier between their minds and the world around them.