Lucifer is a jinn, not a fallen angel...

[aissy]

Como,

"Aissy, if your point of this post is to try and change other people's beleive systems, just forget about it because it is not important, by trying to change people's beleive systems you are interfering with their spiritual progress. Let them find the answers on their own, in the end we are all going back to the source and we shall all know the truth.

besides who the hell cares if satan was a Jin or not, you just started the argument out of nowhere."

I'm not trying to change people's belief systems, though you perceive it to be that way. I composed the message in an attempt impart Islam's view on the fall of Iblis(Lucifer). And what is there to argue about? I simply paraphrased a verse from the Koran to elicit Islam's 'take' on the fall of Iblis(Lucifer). Como, I don't mean to offend you but you have no way of knowing what is important to other people's spiritual progress; it's not a good idea to make generalization about what's good for others because your not God. What matters to you doesn't necessarily matter to the whole.
To paraphrase the Koran, "Don't meddle in things in which you have no knowledge."

If you don't appreciate what I wrote, just use common sense and ignore the posting.[]

Regard......aissy

[The AlphaOmega]

Guess it all depends on whether or not you believe the Koran.  Calling a book religious teaching doesn't make it true.  It's more of a faith thing then a proof thing.  Showing text from the Koran proves nothing about Lucifer, just gives a different idea that people can believe in or not.

[Mystic Cloud]

Still Lucifer was a babylonian King in the old times.
Lucifer literally means bringer of Light.

Do you want to tell me the EXACT position where they say that in the Koran, as I am very sceptic towards that.

[LogoRat]

Its a bunch of crap, walk away!

[kakkarot]

can you prove that logorat? or even give supporting evidence? if not, don't bother telling people to just walk away because that's merely telling people to believe what they want to rather than studying and learning about what really is.

~kakkarot

[volcomstone]

if you mix clay and fire don't you get really hard clay?

but did god create lucifer? Im not sure what the koran teaches, but any canon (closed scripture I.e. unchangeable) attempting to remain in stone (hard clay)("permanence") is doomed.  (the only constant is change)     **which is why moses broke the commandments?**[?]

however thats not to say that the traditions and lessons in the koran are useless(far from), Im just saying there isn't enough room in the world for ONE book to be the authority describing the ONE truth.

P.S>  IGNORE THIS POST.

[Comokisadore]

quote:Originally posted by volcomstone

if you mix clay and fire don't you get really hard clay?

but did god create lucifer? Im not sure what the koran teaches, but any canon (closed scripture I.e. unchangeable) attempting to remain in stone (hard clay)("permanence") is doomed.  (the only constant is change)     **which is why moses broke the commandments?**[?]

however thats not to say that the traditions and lessons in the koran are useless(far from), Im just saying there isn't enough room in the world for ONE book to be the authority describing the ONE truth.

P.S>  IGNORE THIS POST.

Actually, The Quran is complete and has full truth, it further explains in detail what wasn't fully explained in the former books, basically its the completion of the message from God to humanity.

The most interesting thing I have found in the Quran I have read is,
"All Praises be to Allah lord of the WORLDS"

I beleive World's is not reffering to the physical worlds, but the multidimensional worlds separated by vibrations.

[wendi]

I think that Lucifer is the destructive force of God--Bringer of Light (into darkness)  as in bringer of Justice.

[noneofyourbusiness]

lucifer means light btinger and i agree with comokisadore,god gave the torah but people didnt understand so he sent the bible, but people didnt understands or follow that either so he gave the quran.but when he says worlds i think he means spiritual and temperal.

[wendi]

I don't agree that the Koran has all or full truth, but I think it does contain some truth as a holy scripture.


Prais be to God, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

[pod3]

Were not jinns demons?

[BlackBox]

You cannot decipher cryptic analogies into literal terms.

For example, I believe the tale of Lucifer, the fallen angel, is symbolic of humanity. As in another parallel analogy to our fall from grace, from eden.

Everything is cryptic to some degree and must be analyzed in symbolic terms rather than literal...personifcation is a 'no-no' in my opinion when trying to make sense of the half-truths given in religious-texts.

Multidimensionality is where the subject of Jinns rests, and since the majority of the population has no real clue how to approach such topics (since they have enough troubles interpreting their unidimensional lives), they tend to forget the Universe works in 'dualisms'. Ie. If there are jinns that are demons, then there must be jinns that are angels to counterbalance. Such is the alchemical rule-of-thumb: As Above, So Below. We see dualism in nature and we see dualism in the cosmos. Jinns seem to be inbetween just like we are, so we would be wise to not forget what knowledge is plainly visible.

[aissy]

According to the Holy Koran, Lucifer(Iblis) is a jinn. The proof can be found in the texts that elaborate about the creation of Man, Adam. As stated in the Koran, when God breathed His Soul into Adam, He commanded His angels as well as Lucifer to prostrate themselves before Adam. To paraphrase the 'conversation' between God and Lucifer when commanded by God to bow down to Adam, Lucifer states "Why should I prostrate myself before this Man...I am made of fire and he(Adam) is made of clay."

It's stated in the Koran that jinns are created from a 'smokeless fire' while angels, on the other hand, are creations of Light that don't have a free will;therefore, they're uncorruptible and would carry out any of God's commands without question.

[Islamis4u]

Peace be upon those who follow true guidance.

First of all id like to point out that ive noticed that many of you rush to reject the Qur'an or to doubt it, simply because you are unfamilar with it, which is not a justifiable reason to reject or doubt it.

Here is a little info from the Qur'an about satan, and the Jinn. The Qur'an mentions three types of God's creations:

1) mankind
2) the Jinn
3) The Angels

The Qur'an says that mankind were made out of the earth or clay, the jinn were made out of smokless fire, and the angels were made out of light.

"And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire. "[Surah Al-Hijr verses 26-27]

In regards to free-will, both mankind and the jinn were given free-will, yet angels were not. The Qur'an says that there are believing Jinns, disbelieving Jinns, good jinns, bad jinns, just as there are believing and disbelieving humans. Not all jinns are evil demons as some people assume.


The Qur'an says that satan was one of the jinn and not an angel. He could not have been an angel since angels do not have free-will to disobey God. Satan was a creation of Allah, who was given free-will, yet chose to disobey God:

"And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Satan. He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (satan) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the wrong-doers" [Surah Al-Kahf verse 50]

Here is a brief description of the story of satan from the Noble Qur'an:


"And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Satan, he refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Satan) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Satan said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay."

(Allah) said: "(O Satan) get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out, for you are of those humiliated and disgraced."

(Satan) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."

(Allah) said: "You are of those allowed respite."

(Satan) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path.

Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)."

(Allah) said (to Satan) "Get out from this (Paradise) disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all."


"And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the unjust and wrong­doers."

Then Satan whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts (before); he said: "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save you should become angels or become of the immortals."
   
And he [Satan] swore by Allah to them both (saying): "Verily, I am one of the sincere well­wishers for you both."

So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to stick together the leaves of Paradise over themselves (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Satan is an open enemy unto you?"

They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers."

(Allah) said: "Get down, one of you an enemy to the other [i.e. Adam, Eve, and Satan, etc.]. On earth will be a dwelling­place for you and an enjoyment, - for a time."

He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e.resurrected)."

[Surah Al- Ar'aaf verses 11-25]