I must say that is very single minded from someone who claims to be part of a "Spiritual Religion."
Im sorry AryanKnight but I must disagree.
Coming from someone who has no religious ties, besides slight interest, I still understand the need for some people to have those beliefs.
They are not yours to judge.
For instance, you cannot judge one christian or catholic by what certain churches have done in the past.
A belief, even modified by organized religion, still has independant nature from that church to mold the beliefs to whatever structure fits the individual.
Are you going to tell me all Satanists have done good for the world?
People have come out of religion with good experiences. How many lives do you think have been saved by what many say is the love of christ? Ive heard over and over again, "I was close to commiting a crime/suicide/abusing myself but then I found jesus," or "I had been involved with a lot of criminal activity and even hurt people, but while I was in prison, I found myself, and Jesus. His love saved me, and now I can be redeemed through my present and future actions."
Its not what others see from that belief, its what you, as a single person, can get from it without the involvement of anyone else.
Its a personal thing, religion, and because certain black marks have marred the surface of certain beliefs, doesnt make them irrelevant, it makes them abused by people citing their beliefs and using religion as an excuse.
Everything has its up's and down's, and though I agree wholeheartedly that the world would be a better place without organized religion, I dont know that for a fact, and am probably wrong.
You talk about sacrifice when you obviously don't know what it really means.
Any religious or strongly spiritual person can tell you, it isnt about blood sacrifices or silly things that once have existed, it is about personal sacrifice. About what you give up to your god to be with that god, to know love, we must all be willing to sacrifice our hate or greed or personal possessions or so on.
Remember to, I am not religious, but I know what it means to be so, and to have a strong belief in something, as I think you may as well.
Also, the mayans at one time sacrificed people, but they were one of the most advanced civilizations around during that time, well beyond what we are in comparison to this age.
Dont allow certain judgements to cloud the truth, when the truth was never in what you read, but what your heart is in.
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ugh....seriously, how can anyone buy into that?
Even if any of that info had an inkling of truth to it, the way and how people inform others is just as important as what they inform them of.
The person who authored those statements, obviously had no regard for history (Written history at least), or just didnt know any of it and wanted to pull this load of crap out of their behind, with perhaps a smattering of conspiracy lore.
If your going to listen to someone who tells this to you, you may as well relinquish all intelligent conversation from future social regard.
It really is not that difficult to see what is fecal and what isn't.
Sorry AK666, but this is my opinion. I really do apologize if it offends you and I dont often like to just castrate belief systems. But this is just silly sh*t!
btw, what does this have to do with satanism?
here is a little bit of contradiction.
If "your" satanism contains the ability to accept and appreciate the carnal as well as the spiritual beyond the concept of God, within the lamantations of the satanic body both literal and figuratively, why would it attempt to decimate other belief systems when those entail both the flesh and soul in concepts of human nature, growth, society/culture, and experiences both good and bad?
This creates a self-destructive button. Is that what is meant by this satanism? To break down all the other religions so that satanism is the only one left eventually leading to its own demise, its own break down?
Any system that does so, is a self-deleterious and deluded system.
I do want to apologize to you again AK666, for it does honestly seem that I have taken spoken opposition against you, but in reality what is meant by my posts are only insights to what I believe are your own flaws as well as my own. You seem intelligent enough, but you continue to use examples of incorrect ministries of history as well as at times slightly insult others in their opinion.
You contradict yourself, and completely disregard the volidaty of your information as though what you say is truth.
I at times make similar mistakes, and I attempt to read my faults outwardly so that others know them, as well as verify to myself what I can do to better those fractures in my system of thought.
I really am not trying to make you out to be the badguy, but read over your posts, how you talk to others and respond and the information you give.
I read that post you put there, so strike these comments I just made:
"The person who authored those statements, obviously had no regard for history (Written history at least), or just didnt know any of it and wanted to pull this load of crap out of their behind, with perhaps a smattering of conspiracy lore.
If your going to listen to someone who tells this to you, you may as well relinquish all intelligent conversation from future social regard.
It really is not that difficult to see what is fecal and what isn't.
Sorry AK666, but this is my opinion. I really do apologize if it offends you and I dont often like to just castrate belief systems. But this is just silly sh*t!
btw, what does this have to do with satanism?
here is a little bit of contradiction.
If "your" satanism contains the ability to accept and appreciate the carnal as well as the spiritual beyond the concept of God, within the lamantations of the satanic body both literal and figuratively, why would it attempt to decimate other belief systems when those entail both the flesh and soul in concepts of human nature, growth, society/culture, and experiences both good and bad?
This creates a self-destructive button. Is that what is meant by this satanism? To break down all the other religions so that satanism is the only one left eventually leading to its own demise, its own break down?
Any system that does so, is a self-deleterious and deluded system."
I dont know what this means:
"but AK66!!!!111111 HOE DO J00 NOE TEH D3MONS AND S4TAN RNT1 REPT1LES??!!!!!!1111"
Oh, and just so you know, the sacrifices you spoke of are extremist radicals, zealots and fundamentalists who often are linked with terrorists and which have nothing to do with the judeao-christian beliefs beyond taking the basic and original system of belief and skewing it to their own designs. Read up on it a bit more before you deem it a sacrifical religion.
AK666: It seems to me your biggest beef is not with God or Christ, but the myriad ways in which their followers have distorted and violated their teachings over the ages. For all the sacrifice, there are the prophets firmly insisting on God's behalf that He desires mercy, not sacrifice. Against every atrocity and abuse, stands Christ, in opposition, telling us to love our neighbor. Ironically, by perpetuating this caricature of the Church, your ego-driven crusade is only serving to feed more power into the virulent religious structure you claim to so adamantly oppose.
What would Jesus do?
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Here's a link to the Book of Thomas:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/contender.html
Maybe you can find the part about Jesus beating a boy to death. If you find it, it'll certainly be a more interesting passage from the Bible. If you can't, oh well. I know Jesus apparently used a lot of symbolism and metaphor, and certainly a lot of the things he said and did can be taken out of context to great effect, either upon interpreters of the Bible or even the ones that wrote it. I don't personally think he would literally and physical beat a boy to death over something so childish. Such a man wouldn't gain any sort of religious following in the first place (except maybe from sadists), but would probably be dealt with in a suiting fashion for the time he lived in.
I don't know the background of this, or what the joyofSatan site is (maybe somebody can fill me in?), but I saw this in one of the earlier posts:
quote:
Source: Sumerian Mythology - Most of the ancient stories told in the bible come from Sumerian myths. Xianity merely changed the name of all the Sumerian gods to that of their God. This is all explained in The 12th Planet book.
I've read
The 12th Planet and am a big fan of it as many of you probably already know, and I know this statement is false. I've read a lot of Sitchin's work and this is the first time I've even seen the name 'Xianity' before now. Sitchin is also Jewish, and follows Jewish faith (possibly seeing Nibiru as the Jewish 'messiah'), just as an interesting bit there, as his work appears to be used here in what I believe is a misguided fashion.
quote:
Wicca: This is the saddest of ALL the new age cults. Wicca is a watered down form of Witchcraft. True witchcraft doesn't include this three-fold rule and karma sh**. Wicca does not tell you how to empower your mind to become masters of what you want to conceive. Once one's mind is powered there is NO NEED for spells, incantations, or tools. Wicca teaches people to be weak and the need for outside energy such as angels to help them do their bidding. Wicca is just as bad as Xianity when it comes to power. Angels feed of this kind of bull sh**.
Watered down form of Witchcraft? I thought they were the same thing. I also thought Wicca was primarily an Earth-based religion (as in Earth-'worshipping', or maybe celebrating is a better word). Sounds like what's happening here is a confusion of modern Wicca with the stereotyped witchcraft from a few hundred years ago; the kind that went with witches that rode around on broomsticks and were green with crooked noses, which is of course inspired from propoganda from the Catholic Church, etc. Wicca has certainly gained some interesting aspects for some individuals
from all the Christian propoganda, but in essence it is an Earth-based religion similar to Druidism. The only difference I think in doctrine is that Druids in the classical sense don't worry about
learning to Astral Project, etc., but to just let natural ability come naturally when it does, even if over many lifetimes.
The main problem I had with Satanism when I looked into its doctrine (supposing that this is related to Satanism, otherwise ignore this next bit!), is that it tends to be a very arrogant, uncaring, pessimistic, and even violent religion with no real ways to better find any sort of real happiness or love in life. This general doctrine can be easily obtained here so you can decide for yourself: http://www.churchofsatan.com/
quote:
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
I find this, from another part of doctrine, to be especially ironic:
quote:
5. Herd Conformity—That's obvious from a Satanic stance. It's all right to conform to a person's wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
Coming from the "
Church of Satan" this is interesting. I would think if someone didn't want to conform, but to discover things for themselves, the solution would not be to join another religion and accept someone else's ideas. I also find the term 'impersonal entity' very ironic here.
Compare this to the teachings of Jesus as they are traditionally taught. Whether or not Jesus himself taught them are no longer important as long as there is a positive message for us, and if Jesus did in fact teach the things he was said to, I think he would agree. Christianity does have its faults, and millions have died as a result of it over the centuries. I'm not Christian, and I wouldn't really recommend the religion, and the church still resonates on negative connotations with me. But the teachings of Jesus as a message of unconditional love for others, or to strive to reach that level of compassion, are beyond the church and its continuing fallacies. The best part is - you don't have to be Christian to try to take up the message of Jesus if you don't want to.
This is all in free will, and do what you will, but I think most people are more or less caring for others, and all are compassionate in the deepest sense. The tragic events set up by the few with little love or respect for life are usually responded to by hordes of those who care. It is very unfortunate our current state of affairs in the world, but I think there will be a 'happy ending' so to speak, one way or another, and not in the perverted way. [;)]
proof?
aryanknight...go to town man, have fun. Prove all you want. Prove that the world is round and that you have all the knowledge.
But what good does proof do you when you sit alone?
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LOL!!
[:D]
oh thank you. I was actually quite down, but then I read that and couldnt stop laughing. Thank you!
So, how old are you? Cause I dont know many 58 year olds who have told me to eat a lava hat.
ROFLOL!!
Really, thats the funniest thing Ive ever read.
(Sighs and wipes tears away)
You really have a heard time connecting the dots dont you?
Listen, Im gonna give you a little advice aryanchild.
first, dont tell people to eat a lava hat and to shut the hell up when you are trying to prove you have any viable information and should be taken seriously.
second, grow up.
I have met many satanists who are actually very respectable people, and who, despite what many people would think, are very open, forgiving, and acceptant of other people's rights and religion and beliefs. (These people no longer call themselves satanists last time I checked BTW, but thier practices are the same.) ArianKnight, this particular system of satanism, and you yourself, are giving these guys a bad name.
Most satanists are not "worshipers of satan" as they are "anti-christian." From your posts, you are one of these people. When you noticed that christianity was not correct for you, you decided to turn in the oposite direction to rebel. IOW you probably really don't care about the religion itself, you are simply rebelling. I look at your posts, for example, and one minute you say you support the bible and the next minute you say you don't. Just take a look at the micheal thread you tried to ruin.
Further, the true satanists, the ones who know what they are actually doing, know better than to f%&k with actuall demons. Some of them are very talanted magicians, just thier ways are different than most of the other practices. The only real reason they call themselves satanists is to show that they are not afraid to show that they believe in what they are doing. Some of the individuals I have seen online and met in real life don't go by the bible at all, as true satanism is not an offshoot of anti-christains. YOU spout more things from the bible than a dogmatic christain priest ever would. How can you call christains fake and evil when you are using thier own holy book as your basis for study?
Another point I would like to make, I have seen some very good points brought up that you simply fail to respond to. Afraid of answering them?
You seem to be a very angry individual, does your practice promote this? I say this because of comments like this:
quote:
And please, do not try and get on the bad side of me or the clergy.
This suggests to me that you will take some form of action if you or your higher ups get ticked at someone. Very constructive way of learning? Not in my experience it's not. Here is another example:
quote:
That was a really, really random post. Has nothing to do with the topic firstly and secondly bears no accuracy to myself whatsoever.
I not only have proof,
But I also have Ideas about you shutting the hell up and eating a lava hat.
What do you gain by simply throwing sh@@ in the fan? All you do is make the room stink like the fluff bunnie "there is no evil" dogma.
Speaking of new age and dogma, I noticed this little tidbit: you seem to wish to disprove christianity, new age, ect. Basically everything but the so called "religion" you guys practice. This shows me that
1) you are not acceptant of other ideals, even when proven wrong.
2) these ideals are likely structured around dogmatic priciples that cannot easily be proven. (My My how christian of you guys)
3) Basically, this format of religion is taken from the christian format of teaching the masses.
4) despite dislike of new age, new age ideals are played out in this religion such as there is no true evil. (with the possible exception of christianity, which you format your religion's structure and hiearchy on and call it different names.)
5) there is no room for self growth despite obvious ability of human kind to be able to grow on thier own. Take almost any individual who has done great deeds in life. There is no evidince that any supernatural being played a part in what they did. Thus everything has to be done through demons by demons and for demons. Replace demons with god and you basically have christain dogma in the last sentence.
ArianKnight, your wish to be a rebel is blinding you from seeing that you are making the same mistakes you made in christainity. Everyone else here seems to see that except yourself. Perhaps one day you will calm your inner wish to rebel against the so called "god" in christain dogma and find out for yourself what the universe, the afterlife, the paranormal, and even god is like in it's REAL form, which can only be done WITHOUT going to a religion of any kind and experiencing these things first hand for yourself.
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Arianknight (since you seem to wish to play the childish game of caring about the spelling then why not just for laughs? If you are going to argue for or against a religion then people who notice this weakness will come in and try and tear you apart because they see an opening. That's how arguments between different kinds of religions work, butal and unforgiving, just find any on the web and you will see what I am talking about. Please note that I don't do this to make fun of you but simply to show you something that I have observed.)
quote:
I did not rebel against christianity as you would like to think.
TITLE OF THE TOPIC HERE: REGARDING CHRISTIANITY. [:D]Case closed.
more:
quote:
Legally challenging the tyranny of xianity and working with every legal means possible to bring an end to this nefarious religion
You are rebelling against christianity, you made a topic about the "evils" of it, you made many accusations that it is evil, and furthermore you childishly mock it.
So you turned to islam, then you turned to satanism? So now your rebelling against both instead of just one. Makes no real difference to my argument here.
You say you tried finding god on your own? I don't believe it for a second, and if you did you turned to dogmatic sources.
(BTW: dogma: faith in a religion and it's doctrines to the point where a person will simply say something that goes against the religion is wrong because the doctrines, leaders, and books in the religion say it's wrong. Such people will spout out the doctrines in argument. )
quote:
Dogma=A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
You claim yourself that we do not acknowledge the concept of good and evil, but that the JOS is nothing but dogma.
Does this make sense to you? it doesn't to me. For dogma we would firstly have to acknowledge good and evil as a whole; on the behalf of the whole ministry as a body, then we would have to, in the same way, define what this good and evil is, and what to do as good deeds and evil deeds, no questions asked.
yeah...making a lot of sense here. I now make a doctrine that good and evil does not exist, all my followers henceforth must follow this doctrine. Capish? That is dogma, the above simply makes no sense.
quote:
I do not want to "save" anyone. That as such is characteristic of christianity, and not at all in rhythm with the Jos and satanism as whole. The same can be said about converting people. What is appropriate, is, making sure that as many people who would feel a connection with satanism would have the opportunity to come across it. I have tried to do this, myself, by providing the weblink to the jos ministries (sounds dismal I know), but all this seemed to acheive was people ignoring it and then making sweeping comments about satanism and the jos, or people using qoutes from the site for defamation. You, spectral dragon, seem to be quite assertive that the Jos is ridden with dogmatic bullsh!t.
Whats with the micheal topic then? You are spouting your dogma that Micheal is evil and that everyone should turn to satan. How is that NOT trying to convert?
quote:
I think you will find that this is majorly due to the fact that we respect and uphold free choice, free thinking, the different opinions of others and people's rights to their own opinions, and so even if somebody wanted to beleive that jesus and satan were brothers, or that jesus was a role model for satanists and black magicians, so be it!
More dogma I am seeing, also, how come you ALSO say this:
quote:
quote:
Legally challenging the tyranny of xianity and working with every legal means possible to bring an end to this nefarious religion
quote:
I would also like to add spectral dragon, on "experiencing these things for yourself" that,
one hour of meditations and spiritual work a day would be like taking a sickie. Not only do we talk to beings, we summon them to visible appearance. Not only do we astral project; we also work on telekenisis, cyrokenisis, biokenisis, pyrokenisis, hydrokynises, etc, telepathy, magick, spell work and virtually every other psychic feat in existance. For us to be able to summon a demon into visible appearance; it would take a great deal of bio-eletricity as the demon needs to use your energy, and thus it takes alot of work to be able to acheive this. We work at acheiving god head; through such as, but not limited to the kundalini.
That's all well and good, but that's not YOU trying to find YOUR OWN way of finding god, you are, once again, doing it through a religion, which truthfully holds you back in the end. You don't need a organized religion to do this.
QuoteWe DO NOT think that humans can not advance on our own. We DO NOT think every has to be by and for demons.
Primarily alot of our informaton comes from satan/lucifer/ptah/enki/melek taus and the demons/gods themselves.
We have obtained alot of information on the universe and other matters from gods/demons. The gods/demons have helped us with many things, we have had wonderful experiences and adventures with them.
Furthermore, how insane would it be if everybody listening to the ramblings of high preistess maxine without doing such research and searching for themselves? I have not known one satanist who has not done this. Maxine provides in her articles scholary references to what she says and also provides a reading list on the JOS both bibliographical and recommended. However, only this would be a starting point as what better way to research and find information for yourself then track down your own sources and material?
Ahh, good, this is starting to sound like what some of the better satanists I have met would say.
quote:
"arYanknight666.
arYanknight666.
arYanknight666.
arYanknight666."
what the hell?
quote:
"Now that that's out of the way - 0, I am curious as to where you got the impression I was 58 years of age?"
my mistake, I took your total posts for age a while back.
quote:
"Perhaps you should look a little harder at the post where I told you to eat a lava hat, and you will realise why I said it in the first place."
no. sorry guy, but there is no good reason to act like a child and tell this to someone and think people will take it for a substantial bit of information. Whether you meant it as a literal or figurative insult, it is still a childish insult. I dont care whether you wore a hat that symbolized lava which symbolized the wisdom of flowing heat while you were being initiated into your JOS cult or whatever.
Can you imagine trying to offend someone by saying that?
I can imagine telling a joke with it, thats about it. I have read some of your other posts before I began posting, and I really must say you do have the posts of an angry child at times. For instance you had balatantly told someone that their idea of helping people over the forums was like an RPG and laughed at them. You talk to me of wit and intelligence and these are the kinds of comments you make? Then when someone points out your own contridiction such as the "curse" you used also being in RPG's, you felt it necessary to point out that curses dont exist in RPG games and that it was like telling someone how to run or something of that nature. It made no sense.
quote:
"And just for the record, I sorely regret ever coming here, or at least behaving here in the way I have. Not only have I worked up a bad reputation for myself, but I have also ruined the reputation of the Joy Of Satan and, potentially,satanism as a whole, for almost everybody on these forums. I have been very assertive in what I have said, but if only you could understand why."
You shouldnt regret anything though it is quite mature to realize that your behavior here has been anything but.
You underestimate people here aryanknight, you truly do.
People here can think on their own and if someone brings in what you might believe to be a bad reputation of their belief, your wrong, because everyone here actually researches into these things. It is the research and the information gained that tells us whether or not a belief system is made up of faulty tinker toys(Metaphor), or could actually be a substantial form of faith in anyway you want to define it.
You may have been assertive only half the time, when people actually begin presenting real information that challenges your beliefs. But then you also tend to overstate what could have been said simply, and dont think people dont understand certain things you go through, that really is an insult.
There are people here who are completely stable people, very understanding, yet have had reasons in their life(whether you meant it that way or not)to turn a red eye to the whole world.
You are using your secretive reasons for your belief as an excuse.
quote:
"while on the topic I am curious to know what exactly you were stereotyping me as:
the reclusive darkness hugging goth? the "chat rooms only make me feel more isolated" character? or the swollen forheaded workaholic?"
why do you think I saw you as any stereotype? Because I called you childish for telling me to wear a lava hat?
I hold no stereotype and in a place like these forums, its difficult to anyway. I would hope you can understand why.
Im sure your going to just come up with another load of BS to feed us all in hopes of....what? All you have to do to make amends is to simply apologize for your behavior(not for your belief though) and begin having decent and genuine conversations with people here.
Of course you'll probably be happy to hear, that if you reply with one more outburst with no real need to do so, Im going to just ignore you all together. Im tired of this game, and dont need it.
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(wipes hands)
Im threw with you man. You dont get it.
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I'm pretty much done too, it's pretty obvious you simply don't want to realize your own misgivings, good day Aryan.
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You post an anti-Christian post on a Christian section of this messageboard, and somehow think that you're the one being attacked? As you sow, so shall you reap [8D]
Your claims against Christianity are based on a literal interpretation of the Bible. They fail when placed against a metaphorical or mystical interpretation.
You claim that Satan offers you more than the creepy caricature that most people think of when hearing about Satanists, but you don't seem to want to accept that Christianity can offer more than simplistic Bible-thumping rhetoric.
It's no surprise that what you don't allow for others, others don't allow for you.
Since no one replied to my previous topics, I thought I should drop by to see if I am still being ignored. Although I'm a new member, being a new member doesn't matter anymore in such a populated message board. lol, okay kidding. but yea, this is what's up.
My real name, my signature, is only a fake name. And my English might not be proficient. But I do try my best.
I believe that the reptilians+sirians+their slaved greys staged everything. Through holographic technologies, they could make everything seem very realistic. One can say that they are working close with the media and politics through shapeshifting elites who interbreeds or arrange marriages with other shapeshifting hybirds (should it be that they are themselves full reptilians with holographic disguise). Besides, the hyrbids themselves are more controllable than the other people with lesser than 50% reptilian dna.
This is true. Prince Williams, George Bush Jr. and Sn. and Clinton were putting off the Devil signal (with their left?? hand).
The Bohemian Grove and other fraternities such as the Brotherhood of Death (a.k.a. Skull and Bones) are higher up on the control system. If you noticed, important descisions in the US' history had been made in lakeside talks (Bohemian, etc). Reporters are not allowed to report the club talks in Bohemian. And, the world wars were actually funded - something you can't find in history books.
The purpose of rite initiations (or the higher initiations), I think, is to create a reptilian host, a person who can be possessed by a reptilian at any moment.
How this message swayed this far, I don't know. Now let's dig deeper into this subject.
Christ was a real person, but his name was not Jesus. That is a demon's name. Saying "Amen is though you are saying "Allah -- the Moon God, for some reason I forgot. Below the moon is actual full bred reptilians, who are seperated from the Reptilians under Earth. Their plan is to resurface earth through seeding humans and controlling them. Methods of control extends to media, ELF, (electro low frequency) actual abductions, Montauk, fake channeling (the year 2012 is near, and they need to take care of everything before we gain enlightenment from all the awareness the Source is giving to us now), and many more. Their most powerful method is controll of the mass through a human figure, manipulating the other people's emotions. They use occult numbers such as 9 and 13 to affect our reality tremendously, just because, they don't have the mind-reality abilities that we humans possess.
Humans are very mixed. The reptilians accidently reversed the polarity of the sea-world Earth, resulting in terrain lands. Their planet caused this - Venus. They began the colonization by moving the enigmatic moon here. It is a hollow object, with many reptilians inside. Don't forget, they have very long lives.
For some reason, the indesirables (humanoids) were droped on Earth. They were the Atlanteans, religious leaders, scientists, and honorable citizens. They became very fearful when the reptilians created Dinosaurs for their own sustaince. however, it got in the way of the Atlanteans, resulting in a war. lazer beams were shot, killing only most of the dinosaurs (surprise). The reptilians resurfaced, only regaining control of human consciousness with the Sumerians civilization(hence their sculpture of a reptilian "women" and her baby). They had to kidnip and breed with the kings, and then the sons and daughters of the future world, drink human blood to sustain the human form. (Pigs were created to contain Human blood, after the Boar. Therefore, Pigs is considered, to the Hebrews, impure to eat_
How did humans come about, really? The Hatona Council (a.ka. the 9 - symbolizing a close cycle) conciliated with Reptilian colonist reptilians and the other humaniod aliens who dropped their indesirables. They agreed to create a new species: HUmans, creatures' whose DNA are fused by the 12 species and the 13th, the reptilians. "Let us make humans in OUR IMAGE" (something like that I forget, sorry). The reptilians agreed under one condition, that humans be made with reptilian base. Hence, the reptilian brain stem, etc. hence, we go through three stages as a baby - amphibian (when earth was all water) - reptilian (reptilian base) - then humanoid.
The purpose for this was to help souls with victimization issues learn. Earth attracted these souls, us. We have to overcome victimization. When we do, the whole reality paragym changes. Have you ever wanted something very badly that it comes to you the next second? The sirians allied with the reptilians, sharing free technologies and creating conflicts, because they wanted the souls to develope. Seeing past the fake New Age channeling satellites (which hook up to the specific channelers and creat databases to keep track),
benevolent beings would never interfere with our development unless they have an agenda. They would, however, "intrefere" by means of helping us through victimization, to a very small extent, and that has included the creation of Christianity (I think the lyraens did it). However, Christianity became tainted by the churches and the powers behind the churches (hyrbids, shapeshifters, mindcontrolled people, mislead and bargained people). Bibles were consistently translated and re-modified, while the peasants were by law prohibited to read any copies! Most couldn't read anyways. What a perfect time.
The Great Flood, by the way was, was caused by a civilization who kept beaming the ground (where the Reptilians lurked), after discovering the reptilians' plan to take over through the newly reptilian-compatible humans.
The reptilians, however, want us in their control, forever. This mark, the chip they will introduced to us through another Crisis-Problem-Reaction will do just that. They are afraid that without us, they will die out of neg. emotional hunger.
The Crisis-Problem-Reaction is for instance, the WTC. Globalists planned all this, yet they are in positions such as President, leaders, etc. The Crisis-Problem-Reaction is for instance, the Roman Empire. Do you get where I'm going?
By the way, they [reptilians] do worship astral entities. That is because, they do exist. Worshipping astral entities is their way of changing OUR reality. Quit being victimz people. When one wakes up, another wakes up, and then another. Believe it or not, our Hive mind is our collective consciousness and God-mind (above oversouls and the oversoul families). There is still hope, before America and China, the final Superpowers be replaced by the NWO. (ask your oversouls people, if this is a possible future, and then report back)
lol.. that was long. I hope I was understandable.
]]
[:O]
aryan,
You have a problem with Christianity but you call aninfinity's post "interesting?"
quote:
Agreee of disagree?
Disagree, with most of it (your initial post).
quote:
are you a christian?
Yes.
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Possibly more people have killed in the name of christ then in any other cause.
Not very likely. I would say Communism has Christianity beat by tens of millions.
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The teachins of christianity are damaging and anti-life.
Which ones in particular - "love your neighbor as yourself"; "consider others better than yourself"; "as long as it depends on you, live at peace with everybody"? Any others?
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Just what good has christianity done for the world?
How about you look around. Christianity's influence is everywhere, but you probably don't even know it.
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The judeao-christian good demands blood sacrifice; human and animal sacrifice, cannablism, even vampirism....There are direct instructions from the god yahweh to the hebrews, of blood sacrifice; human and animal, flesh eating and blood drinking....There are plenty of instances in the bible of rape, torture and mass murder in the bible on the behalf of god. Some of these atrocities are committed by angels themselves.
Care to provide chapter and verse for any of that, other than the animal sacrifice, of course?
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He encouraged his disciples to buy swords.
Chapter and verse, please.
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He was a drunk and he mistreated women.
I would
really like to see your proof of this.
It really shows that you have a very poor understanding of the Bible and Christianity. I'm curious: did your poor understanding of Christianity come before or after you left the Church?
quote:
JOY OF SATAN
There's an oxymoron.
]]
AK,
You are a feisty one.
quote:
Back that up, please.
Sure. How about I post the estimates for those killed by Communism, and then you can post the estimates of those killed by Christianity to back up what you stated?
Here is a site that states 100 million which were killed under Stalin and Lenin alone:
http://www.victimsofcommunism.org/
Add to that those killed under Mao's dictatorship in China and you have over 130 million killed. You can find more under the following as well:
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/museum/faqframe.htm
Let's see your numbers.
quote:
Supression of sexual urges, supression of natural emotions such as hate, lust, anger, etc, turning the other cheek to everything everyone does to each other and one and other, abolishing justice and gradually leading to the collapse of society, self-denial, convincing yourself everyone, including you, is guilty before god, convincing yourself you should avoid everything that isn't biblical lest you roast in hell for an eternity, constantly thinking and mourning about death, constantly being afraid of satan and demonic deceptions and attacks, treating the natural human character, feelings and nature as "sin", as evil, etc.
Christianity teaches self-control, which is a good thing. Christianity does not teach that one must turn the other cheek on everything, that is absurd. As for abolishing justice and collapsing society, you surely must be joking. Do you have any proof that societies collapse due to Christian teachings?
Please, if you are going to debate Christianity, don't put up a strawman of it. Your perception of Christianity is very, very wrong. But you're a Satanist, so it's expected.
quote:
Haha, are you pulling my leg? you bet I don't even know it? ...need I say more?
No, you needn't say more; you've said too much. You completely misunderstood the point I was making and proved that you really don't know the influence of Christianity upon the world.
quote:
old, frail, ill-looking ministers and nuns hobbling around, angry, fat, old, bold middle aged christians waddling down the drive way shooing off the dogs and the neighbourhood kids
How does "old, frail, ill-looking,...angry, fat, old, bold (I'm assuming you meant "bald") middle aged" have anything to do with Christianity? I suppose all the Satanists are the good-looking people while all the Christians are the ugly ones? Please, if you want to debate, do it intelligently and in a mature manner. From your posting so far, I view Satanists as immature, irrational, unthinking individuals.
Early Christianity strongly opposed the culturally acceptable practices of infanticide, infant abandonment (which lead directly to the Christian founding of orphanages), abortion, gladiator shows, human sacrifice, and suicide. Christianity elevated sexual morality far above what was common in Greco-Roman culture.
Christianity brought freedom and dignity to women that was previously unknown in Greco-Roman and Hebrew cultures. More recently, Christianity influenced the abolishment of foot binding in China.
Christianity also massively influenced health care and the development of hospitals. Although there is
some evidence of the existence of some form of hospitals in Greco-Roman society, Christianty was the first to institutionalize hospitals and actually build hospitals for the purpose of taking care of the sick. It is also worth noting that Christian hospitals were the world's first voluntary charitable organizations. Also, medical nursing is a Christian invention.
Christianity was the first to provide education for both males and females in the same setting as well providing education regardless of social class or ethnicity. It was Martin Luther's idea to make education mandatory. Monastaries developed the institution of univerity.
Perhaps you have heard of the Protestant Work Ethic. Need I mention that the societies which were (are) the most advanced and capitalistic were overwhelmingly Christian?
I could go on about a great number of things yet as well as go into greater detail on any number of the subjects I have already spoken about. Be very thankful you live in a Christian society, very thankful. Nearly everything you have, including your freedom, is due in large part, if not only, to Christianity.
I'll have to respond to your Scripture "evidence" later as this went on longer than I intended.
]]
km
AK,
quote:
Buddhism teaches self control; christianity doesn't. Do you know a psychiatric opinion of how damaging christianity can be? constantly feeling guilty about yourself, denying oneself, supressing natural feelings and urges.
Are you even reading what you are writing? You have totally contradicted yourself. Buddhism and Christianity are very similar in their approach to self control which is mainly through "denying oneself," and "supressing natural feelings and urges." If Satanism promotes expression of all natural feelings and urges, then it is indeed extremely harmful and without any self control whatsoever.
quote:
How can you say that judeao-christianity was against human sacrifice? what a joke.
They were against the human sacrifices committed by the pagans in their temple worship to their gods.
quote:
Before going off and googling satanism
It was a swipe at you, which was made pretty clear.
quote:
Christians don't think for themselves, full stop, their religion forbids them to do this.
On the contrary, we are told to study to show ourselves approved and to think for ourselves.
quote:
the notion that the constitution and freedoms of the united states, and democracy, are due to christianity, is FALSE.
'The VERY FIRST AMMENDMENT of the constitution is based on the Separation of church and state.
How does the separation of church and state prove that freedom due to Christianity is false? The nation was founded on Christian principles and it is through Christianity that capitalism came about, in large part anyway.
quote:
You beleive the whole concept of christianity is "love" and what not, am I correct?
Love is the central and highest virtue of Christianity. Love for God first, love for fellow man second.
quote:
have you, as a christian, personally read the bible cover to cover, or in any actual depth,
I have read it cover to cover several times and am currently in school taking Christian Studies which is heavy in theology and biblical interpretation.
quote:
Even preists and nuns are tired and old, not seeming to have any real fullfilment.
People grow old, it's all a part of the "life cycle." Spiritual work and Christian work are very hard on a person, but that doesn't mean there is no fulfillment. It is more difficult than most people realize.
quote:
rather then listening to some tired old man with erectile incompetence wheezing about?
Here you go again with this nonsense. What does this have to do with Christianity? Grow up.
I noticed you didn't bother to back up your previous statement ("Possibly more people have killed in the name of christ then in any other cause") or respond to the evidence which you requested.
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Oh hell, I'm probably going to get yelled at for wading into this debate but.....
It's not that I dislike Christianity per se....I dislike religion!
It's been noted that in tribal societies, such as remote pacific island nations, isolated African and South American tribes, that have not yet been exposed to the "laws and morals" of christianity, there is no such thing as sex crimes. Rape, sexual abuse, molestation, prostitution, etc, don't exist in these societies. This is because they have not been taught to repress sexuality, as our society teaches every one of our children as they are growing up. Their "hethen" way of life allows sex and sexuality to be expressed as a perfectly normal and natural human function. It's not about self-control. Its only the religions that tell us it is.
If you don't repress something, it never becomes enough of an issue that it needs to be controlled.
[:)]
James.
]]
I know you think your being picked on aryanknight, but you must realize the things you are saying you seem (SEEM) to be trying to convince others are set in stone, the way you percieve them and are correct in any sense of the word.
I think you have too much hostility towards faith in anything besides what you believe.
I think you have researched and are knowledgable up to a point, and are intelligent enough to point out certain fallicies, yet are unwilling to see your own when you phrase them. (If you want to ask what exactly those faults are, just read back. Im not going to satisfy any passionate response by researching your words.)
I think that although you have said you regret coming into these forums, you enjoy it because;
1) There is a part of you which hopes can change the opinion of even one person concerning the areas of subject which you seem to get so easily upset about.
2) You are just trying to get others angry, whether it is to A) Spur them into rethinking their own beliefs or B)just because you get a thrill out of it.
3) You are getting frustrated because though you present decent arguements once every while, you are still being proven wrong at every turn(or at least in others opinions).
4) Your bored.
5) You havent necessarily gotten out much to experience these things as much as you would like us to believe.
6) You have some alterior motive.
Im not saying any or all of these are right. Its just what it seems like to me.
I should let ya know though, that in one area concerning those topics I just brought up, you have changed my opinion about something.
You have shown me just how useless it is to get to offended about these things, and to be so hostile towards history and other peoples opinions and beliefs.
just so ya know though, if thats what you really think buddhism is about, you have no idea what true spirituality is and I am sorry for you.
We are not given by any means, the intelligence we have, in order to justify ourselves to anyone.
We are however given our fragile selves, in order to come to terms with those faults and mistakes we make along the way.
History you can never prove unless you go back in time my friend. Even books and classes and people who lived up to a certain point, can only give you details, from one point of view. Dont be so certain of everything you think you know.
Those who have the most knowledge and wisdom, are those who realize that they have none.
]]
Oh, I see.
How I understand Buddhism:
The beleif system according to the buddha shakyamuni's teaching; the virtuos and perfect teaching, its goal being to break through delusion and to acheive Annuttara-Samyak-Sambodhi, the perfect complete enlightenment. The Perfect Complete Enlightenment can be described as three levels, Arhats, Bodhisatvas and Buddhas. This first is "proper Enlightement", where the afflictions of rights and wrongs of others, greed, anger, ingorance and arrogance are severed, and where no wandering, discrimantory thoughts are harboured. Then "Equal and proper enlightenment". Equal means equal to the buddha, but not yet having become a buddha. This level is higher than that of an arhat. One who acheives Ewual and proper enlightenment is a bodhisattva. Perfect Complete Enlightenment, that is buddhahood.
A buddhist recognises the five guildines of of practice; The three conditions, the six harmonies, the three learnings, and the six paramitas of principles. There is also the ten good conducts and the ten great vows of universal bodhisattva..and the five niyama, which are;
Utu Niyama,
Bija Niyama,
Kamma Niyama,
Dhamma Niyama,
Citta Niyama.
Of these five, the physical inorganic order, the physical organic order and the order of the norm are more or less of the mechanical type though they can be controlled to some extent by human ingenuity and the power of mind. For example, fire normally burns, and extreme cold freezes, but man has walked unscathed over fire and meditated naked on Himalayan snows; horti-culturalists have worked marvels with flowers an fruits; and Yogis have performed levitation. Psychic law is equally mechanical, bud buddhist training aims at control of mind, which is possilbe by right understand and skilful volition.
Buddhism aims ultimatley at the escape of samsara, and thus the nibbanna or the buddha realm, in which a buddha or boddhisattva must still cultivate to accumulate good kamma, for when he incarnates, which he will only do by choice, only to help sentient beings.
Buddhism is not considered religion, nor philosophy as there is no subject and object, rather it is an education, of the buddha shakyamuni.
Compassion, wisdom, understanding.
Any problems?
]]
I dont have a problem with your research into things.
I dont have a problem with how you view buddhism.
It seems though you are trying to convince me(and others?) you know anything about spiritualism just through words. Any child can pick up a book, search the web, or ask people.
Its not about those things though. Its about what it means to you, without the play by play from sources you are reading from.
YOu know what buddhism means to me?
It doesnt mean the literal translations you can read anywhere.
It means searching in one aspect, the heart of any matter you have left behind which plagues you.
It means looking onto the course of which you walk and seeing behind you, noticing where you are and being comfortable with any obstacles you come upon.
It means finding the path to forgiveness and awareness of yourself, by accepting your fragility.
It means love.
man, please dont be so serious about something that should come naturally to us all.
You can live in your darkness or you can live in your light or you can do both with acceptance of what will come.
Just accept the fact that everyone, no matter the proof they think they may have, will differ and oppose in one way, or the other.
Just remember, when you read and try and learn things, it is not in order to debate. It is in order to gain that knowledge, and evolve.
If you still want to argue this, then by all means, read on and scribe what you read, because it seems to be doing you a lot of good.
quote:
Originally posted by aryanknight666
quote:
it is through Christianity that capitalism came about, in large part anyway.
Not at all. Cut the crap.
Actually, it was christians who invented the concept of banking in North America.
AK, you have thrown yourself into an endless debate, that is until a moderator closes the topic.
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fine, if thats what you want to think.
You know, you are just so draining to talk to. So opposed to everybody.
I made it clear in the post that things I commented on were what were seemingly clear to me, seemingly. Meaning what it felt to me. Not what it was.
I meant that by reciting anything you may or may not have studied about buddhism, means nothing unless you apply it. Have you lived the buddhist life?
No?
Then I could care less what you know. Because you truly dont. I dont, and anyone who has not lived it, have no idea. Spirituality is not about the things you learn from books or teachers. It is about what you feel and live as a person.
Stop being so gosh darn factual. It means NOTHING!!!
Anyone can repeat what they read, it does not mean your a scholar by any means.
I hope that one day you look at the people walking by you and understand with the smell of their clothes, or look of their expression or watchful gaze or stride they walk in, that the moments in which you reside, whether they are full of hostility or acceptance, are the moments which build who you are and will be.
Go on and keep telling me and others what you have read and what can be proved. Cause it means a lot to us you know. How someone can be so damned persistant and deaf to others opinions.
I have made it clear of the things of which I had thought of you, and not all of them are bleak, in fact I made it a point to converse the positives, yet you keep pushing this forced defiance of self onto others. Stop it, its not difficult to just accept what is, man. Please. Please. Please. Be a person for a moment, and not just an angry recorder.
Im sorry, Im drinking and when I drink I become passionate myself, but so much more understanding of what we are as people. Faulty.
AK,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I suddenly have so much to do (thanks to procrastination), that I shouldn't even be posting this (a little procrastinating never hurt anyone [;)]).
quote:
He encouraged his disciples to buy swords:
Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27
Look also at Luke 9:3 and 10:4. In both instances Jesus tells his disciples to take nothing - no staff, no extra clothes or sandals, not even money. But notice in Luke 22 it is during the Last Supper,
after which he will no longer be with them, and so he tells them to prepare by taking with them swords and money. They only had two swords and Jesus said that was enough.
quote:
Jesus was a drunkard:
matt 11:19
Matt. 11:18-19, '18 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, `He has a demon!' 19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, `Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds."'
First, notice that Jesus is contrasting John's actions with what people thought of John. Second, Jesus contrasts that with what he was doing and what people were saying about him. There is not even implied in those verses that Jesus was a drunkard. If you look at the whole context of chapter 11, Jesus is speaking to the people about their inability to recognize who John and he really were.
quote:
Jesus mistreated women:
john 2:4
john 19:26
I don't see how either verse proves your point in the slightest.
quote:
human sacrifice
II Samuel 21
21:6 Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord in Gib'e-ah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose.
21:9 And he delivered them into the hands of the Gib'e-on-ites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest.
None of this is promoting "human sacrifice." A famine was in the land as judgement from God because Saul did something he was not supposed to do by trying to annihilate the Amorites (Gibeonite decendents). The Gibeonites are the ones who wanted to kill seven of Sauls decendents as revenge for the attempted annihilation. This is by no means God demanding human sacrifice.
quote:
Exodus 22:29 "Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me."
LOL! I can see what you are thinking and why you thought that way, but you are way off. The firstborn male was, and still very much is, extremely important to each family. God is simply saying that each firstborn male was to be consecrated to Him.
Exodus 13:2, "Sanctify to Me every firstborn, the first offspring of every womb among the sons of Israel, both of man and beast; it belongs to Me."
quote:
cannibalism:
Deuteronomy 28:53
And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
28:55
So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
God is not demanding cannibalism. If you read
all of chapter 28, God tells the Israelites the blessings they will receive for obedience and the curses for disobedience. This passage is prophetic of what would happen
in a siege because it would all there is left to eat. For the actualization of this, read 2 Kings 6:24-29.
I spent longer on this then I anticipated. I'll get to the rest another day (just don't hold your breath [;)] ).
AK,
quote:
Joshua Chapter 10- Nothing but mass murder
Judges 1:1- 18 More bloodbaths and mass murder
It's called war. People die. And, yes, as judgement God helps out the Israelites' cause.
quote:
Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
Again, no murder, no rape. God declares war on the Midianites (vs. 1) because they seduced the Israelites to engage in sexual immorality and to worship the Baal of Peor (see 25:16-17).
quote:
Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NLT)
This is regarding taking a female captive to be one's wife. The Israelites took captives and got taken captive, such was the nature of war back then. But God never condones rape, ever.
quote:
Repeat after me: "It is my opinion, as a christian, that the statement/in the statement the joy of satan, there is an oxymoron"
The way you post in here proves my point. [:D]
James,
quote:
It's been noted that in tribal societies, such as remote pacific island nations, isolated African and South American tribes, that have not yet been exposed to the "laws and morals" of christianity, there is no such thing as sex crimes. Rape, sexual abuse, molestation, prostitution, etc, don't exist in these societies. This is because they have not been taught to repress sexuality, as our society teaches every one of our children as they are growing up. Their "hethen" way of life allows sex and sexuality to be expressed as a perfectly normal and natural human function. It's not about self-control. Its only the religions that tell us it is.
If you don't repress something, it never becomes enough of an issue that it needs to be controlled.
Some errors in reasoning in there.
First, just because there are no sex crimes and Christian morals and laws haven't been taught there, doesn't mean that there is a direct correlation. It may be that they aren't exposed to pornography; it may have nothing to do with unrepressed sexuality. Second, those sex crimes you mentioned happened long before Christianity arrived on the scene. Third, just because something appears to be natural and normal, doesn't mean that it is right to do. Fourth, do you think cannibalism ever needed to be controlled? Things are repressed for a reason, and that reason is usually
because it needs to be controlled.
quote:
Originally posted by exothen
Some errors in reasoning in there.
First, just because there are no sex crimes and Christian morals and laws haven't been taught there, doesn't mean that there is a direct correlation. It may be that they aren't exposed to pornography; it may have nothing to do with unrepressed sexuality. Second, those sex crimes you mentioned happened long before Christianity arrived on the scene. Third, just because something appears to be natural and normal, doesn't mean that it is right to do. Fourth, do you think cannibalism ever needed to be controlled? Things are repressed for a reason, and that reason is usually because it needs to be controlled.
No, the reasoning is sound.
The only reason sex and sexuality is controlled in our societies is because we've been told it has to be controlled. Don't you see? In our society pornography is rampant
because sexuality and sexual expression is so strictly controlled by the churches, not just the Christian church either. One of the most beautiful and wonderful experiences God ever gave to humans is now frowned upon unless it is done "according to the rules". If anyone does not act exactly according to those lengthy and limiting rules, they are considered to be acting immorally.
Yes the sex crimes were on the scene long before Christianity, but Christianity has taken its regulations from the jewish religions that came before it that also sought to control peoples behavior. Many other religions have also sought to impose such regulations on cultures. What better way to control people than to regulate their basic human needs and pleasures?
"Third, just because something appears to be natural and normal, doesn't mean that it is right to do."Oh my, this is without a doubt one of the best examples of the brainwashing of religions.
Have you ever considered that if something
was natural, it was that way because
God deemed it to be that way?
As to cannibalism, well, the same argument can be applied to a whole slew of different topics, but there is always one question that should be asked in any "moral" situation. That question is NOT "is this permissible", or "is this the right or wrong thing to do according to whatever guidelines?" The correct question should be in all cases "what would I do if I act out of love?" If love is always considered, controlling rules and regulations become unnecessary, as people will naturally do what's best for all involved.
Kind regards,
James.
quote:
Yes the sex crimes were on the scene long before Christianity, but Christianity has taken its regulations from the jewish religions that came before it that also sought to control peoples behavior.
Even Sumerian texts deal explicitly with people being punished for the way they handle their sexuality, and this was back thousands of years BC. Maybe this is the actual root, since Hebrews did take after those who took after the Sumerians. I'm tempted to say that every culture that didn't come from this line of Sumerian culture is devoid of such repression (pacific islanders, etc.), but I'm sure there are exceptions.
Id like to say that whatever is deemed as needing to be controlled, is only so because of
A) Society is under its own opinion that God says so, or because it is obviously better for humanity for whatever reason and
B) The individual under their own opinion of God saying so, because it is better for humanity, and/or good for the individual.
Things dont need to be controlled until we say so for whatever reason we may have.
I agree with james, I dont think that main stream society would have had the problems it has now if so many things hadnt been repressed.
There are so many examples of this all over the world relating to different issues.
Humans, as an intelligent species, usually tend to know the difference between right and wrong and without being told, will tend toward the better choice, yet when faced with regulation and repression of action comes revolt, sedition, rebellion, anything to act out against the wall that is placed in front of a person.
Pretend there you are part of a group of people standing near a lake filled with fish. People will naturally take use of this lake but in moderation.
Now imagine a wall is suddenly placed in front of your group of people with only allowance for a stream, a tiny stream to ebb through underneath with only a few fish to swim it.
Time will pass and you will think to yourself this is a good way to regulate the use of the water and the fishing.
But as time passes you see more and more use of the stream. The fish coming through are not enough, and you are realizing that deep and reflective thought which concerns what has come of the lake on the other side of this wall.
You decide you should at least see it, perhaps to at least check on it. But as you climb, you notice others climbing as well. You climb faster.
When you get to the top you dont even spend the time looking out over the vast beauty of what is before you because you are too concerned about those others who will get to the top as well. So you jump down and begin your decimation, your overindulgence of the lake which has developed over time you realize, to become a need for what the lake offers you.
The wall comes down, but by then it is too late. The fish in the lake are gone or poisoned, and the water itself is contaminated because of overuse and abuse.
This is obviously just a generally simplistic view of the issue, but nonetheless it reveals what potentially people will do if kept from the things they once didnt realize they wanted so badly.
Damn guys, take is easy! Everyone has a right to there opinion (obviously). Equilly obvious is the fact that no two people are going to ever agree on most anything. No one grows up in a vacuum, they are instead the culmination of their experiences, direct and indirect. A culmination of thought and feeling brought on through the interaction with yourself, things, people and peoples ideas. Even in the most orthodox of religions rules blur and meanings fade in and out of intensity secretly between its followers no matter how devout. No one lives in true isolation, especially in a "civilized" world. Organized religion as well as other ideas heavily influence how you see your world and yourself. What does experience really mean anyway, and what is the real value of meaning when they both pass through the filters of Subjective consciousness.
All we can do is wish for the other person a fatefull and happy life no matter how dogmatic they may appear or self-rightous they may come-off. Unless you've been there, been them, beside them their whole life you never really understand how a person feels or what they're really getting at emotionally.
To many times I'm afraid in the history of man great suffering has occurred, misunderstandings arisen, wars faught won and lost, and the whole time everyone is on the same page but language fails to illustrate feeling quickly enough and impatience and frustration take hold. Too many letters on a page and it turns black.
duelly noted, well stated, and understood.
Nobody here besides a few exceptions truly get out of hand in regards to topic discussion, but as expected, with subjects of deep review, comes heated and passionate conversation and debate.
We dont come here to flame each other nor even put down others or their ideas and opinions, though sometimes things have been known to get out of hand. But there are people and those even in the middle of said conversion, whom help diffuse whatever situation has surfaced.
"To many times I'm afraid in the history of man great suffering has occurred, misunderstandings arisen, wars faught won and lost, and the whole time everyone is on the same page but language fails to illustrate feeling quickly enough and impatience and frustration take hold. Too many letters on a page and it turns black."
Sadly thus is the curse of humankind, but it also is an attribute that reveals great beauty and potential within each of us. Something that should be treasured and sought after to which in to better ourselves.
Without this cause of flaw, we would only nod to each other in acknowledgement and that would be that.
no fun in having all the answers....
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