Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Atlas on March 11, 2002, 01:40:16
Post by: Atlas on March 11, 2002, 01:40:16
My bad guys, I should have put this in another forum. I can't seem to remember that there are multiple forums here now :)
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Flying Free Bird on March 12, 2002, 12:14:59
Post by: Flying Free Bird on March 12, 2002, 12:14:59
I think there are counterparts to everything dualistic (or more) in the universe. But you mention God. What is your definition of God?
God to me is not an old man sitting on a cloud, conjuring up new creations. God is EVERYTHING. God is every force possible, good or "bad", wise or stupid. God is the demon sucking up the life force of an innocent little child, and the angel giving help to poor beings in need.
God surrounds and permeats us all. We ARE God (in essence).
This is only my view of things.
God to me is not an old man sitting on a cloud, conjuring up new creations. God is EVERYTHING. God is every force possible, good or "bad", wise or stupid. God is the demon sucking up the life force of an innocent little child, and the angel giving help to poor beings in need.
God surrounds and permeats us all. We ARE God (in essence).
This is only my view of things.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Rob on March 12, 2002, 14:50:24
Post by: Rob on March 12, 2002, 14:50:24
Agreeing with the free flying bird
The Ultimate God, at the highest dimension, encompasses everything that is, was, and will be (probably, I'll never know), and is therefore its own opposite, and much more.
The Ultimate God, at the highest dimension, encompasses everything that is, was, and will be (probably, I'll never know), and is therefore its own opposite, and much more.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: David on March 12, 2002, 22:12:07
Post by: David on March 12, 2002, 22:12:07
I also agree, in fact I don't even like using the word God because people then seem to associate you with Christianality. God for me is just the "life force"(yeah I know it sounds cheesy but you know what I mean), and I agree that we are apart of God not his minions :).
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: David on March 12, 2002, 22:36:51
Post by: David on March 12, 2002, 22:36:51
So I may not be Robert but no personally I don't think Satan exists, and is just a metaphor for evil. I think that Satan was invented by the priesthood into scaring the town folk into doing what they will say "do what we say or you'll burn in hell with the devil".
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Qui-Gon Jinn on March 13, 2002, 02:16:28
Post by: Qui-Gon Jinn on March 13, 2002, 02:16:28
Couldn´t agree more, to me "god" is everything, why not by definition call it/him/her; "the life force", which exists in every atom and particle thrue the entire universe (-s), which in other words we are very much part of. So my point is - we are god, all of us, just like my little kitten lying here next to me, he to is god although he seems sorta unaware of it right now.... we all join up in the creation of everything.. so we are all "creative gods", now isn´t that a title?? Gonna put that next to my name in the phonebook - Rikard Mattsson tlphn: .... occupation: creative god. hehee... take care// Qui-Gon
- Your focus determines your reality -
- Your focus determines your reality -
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: dashour on March 13, 2002, 02:47:41
Post by: dashour on March 13, 2002, 02:47:41
The ancient Incas had this definition of God:
"That which does to the universe what the soul does to the body."
If you think about this simple statement, you will see what a wealth of subtle and profound insight and truth it can reveal. To begin with, we are part of this universe...........
Dashour
"That which does to the universe what the soul does to the body."
If you think about this simple statement, you will see what a wealth of subtle and profound insight and truth it can reveal. To begin with, we are part of this universe...........
Dashour
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Atlas on March 14, 2002, 02:26:42
Post by: Atlas on March 14, 2002, 02:26:42
Ok you guys I see what you are saying, so let me rephrase it. According to what Robert has said, if he is correct, there is a definite HEIRARCHICAL system to the good side/bad side. You start with the many weak beings of both sides, and then move up to the rarer and rarer more powerful beings. Ok so if god is all encompassing or whatever, then what I mean is the highest part of the heirarchy UNDER god that could have an opposite. For instance, if there are a group of 4 archangels who are the highest beings under god, are there also 4 evil archangels? To whom do they answer? God also, or..are they under some kind of "satan" or devil?
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: MJ-12 on March 14, 2002, 02:53:22
Post by: MJ-12 on March 14, 2002, 02:53:22
as
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: David on March 14, 2002, 13:25:54
Post by: David on March 14, 2002, 13:25:54
agreed!
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: lateralus897 on March 14, 2002, 19:41:09
Post by: lateralus897 on March 14, 2002, 19:41:09
Ok, what i think is that since god is everything, is counterpart would be nothing. So he has a counterpart and then he doesn't. I think there is probably one evil being which is more powerful than all the rest, and it could probably considered Satan, but not nearly powerful enough to oppose God.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: PeacefulWarrior on March 19, 2002, 10:31:58
Post by: PeacefulWarrior on March 19, 2002, 10:31:58
"Satan" is definetly real. EVERYTHING has it's opposite. Light/dark, good/evil, sweet/sour, good/bad, God/Satan...
CS Lewis once said something to this effect: The greatest thing the devil can do is convince people that he isn't real...
Edited by - daniel on 19 March 2002 19:13:57
CS Lewis once said something to this effect: The greatest thing the devil can do is convince people that he isn't real...
Edited by - daniel on 19 March 2002 19:13:57
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: David on March 19, 2002, 22:09:38
Post by: David on March 19, 2002, 22:09:38
I very much doubt the Christian Satan is real, considering the Bibles contents are highly unlikely anyway(in the face of logic and evidence). But agreed everything has it's counterpart, like ying and yang. But if you can prove Satan's existance, I'm open-minded enough.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Kirath on March 21, 2002, 17:35:12
Post by: Kirath on March 21, 2002, 17:35:12
The only thing I can find on this site by Robert Bruce that talks about Satan is found under the "Nonphysical Relationships" section of http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_41.htm
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Tir13 on March 21, 2002, 22:00:21
Post by: Tir13 on March 21, 2002, 22:00:21
Hey all!
Well, I'm bored and so here is my two cents, through my own personal experience. The Xtian God, if you will, is a very real entity that I have had the displeasure of encountering/knowing. I am not a big fan of that particular creature because of how it was created. The devil/chaotic entity, also exists...and a bit more interesting IMHO. Both sides have their own systems, positions, etc. for their creatures to fall into. It fascinates me how humans have no grasp of the demonic heirarchy, but everyone refers to the Arch Angels like their going out of style. Go figure....
Later,
Jason
Well, I'm bored and so here is my two cents, through my own personal experience. The Xtian God, if you will, is a very real entity that I have had the displeasure of encountering/knowing. I am not a big fan of that particular creature because of how it was created. The devil/chaotic entity, also exists...and a bit more interesting IMHO. Both sides have their own systems, positions, etc. for their creatures to fall into. It fascinates me how humans have no grasp of the demonic heirarchy, but everyone refers to the Arch Angels like their going out of style. Go figure....
Later,
Jason
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Froggman on March 22, 2002, 14:09:49
Post by: Froggman on March 22, 2002, 14:09:49
Personally, I don't believe in ANY heirarchy of any kind anywhere. Referring back to the all-too-true point earlier that Everything is a part of Everything else and THAT is all there is. If we are all a part of it, equal parts, we all have access to the same powers. Good/Evil, whatever you call it. There is no such thing as right or wrong. It is only what works and what doesn't work. It's all a matter of perspective.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Tir13 on March 22, 2002, 16:07:35
Post by: Tir13 on March 22, 2002, 16:07:35
It's called pure/true energy, what you are referring too.
It is very difficult to use/access unless you are born with that ability or nature. You have to work with what you're given wether it be positive or negative, netural, etc. In theory, yes...we are all part of 'eternity', but you have to play with the card your dealt. Unlike theory, in practice...it doesn't always work.
Later,
Jason
It is very difficult to use/access unless you are born with that ability or nature. You have to work with what you're given wether it be positive or negative, netural, etc. In theory, yes...we are all part of 'eternity', but you have to play with the card your dealt. Unlike theory, in practice...it doesn't always work.
Later,
Jason
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Adrian on March 22, 2002, 17:11:55
Post by: Adrian on March 22, 2002, 17:11:55
Greetings everyone!
I would just like to say that I do not currently believe in the concept of "satan".
I could go into a long justification of my position, but to do so would result in a large scale analysis, which I really do not want to get into, and which would encroach on the religious beliefs of some people, and which I also really do not want to do
Also, many people in this thread have stated opinions which I believe are broadly correct.
I do currently believe that there is a heirarchy of higher light and dark side beings, but which however cannot be correctly referred to as good or evil (or satan) - they are all rightful aspects of the "One", notwithstanding the fact that the dark side beings, particularly the higher ones, can be extremely powerful and dangerous and to human beings.
I hope that isn't to convoluted
Kind regards,
Adrian.
I would just like to say that I do not currently believe in the concept of "satan".
I could go into a long justification of my position, but to do so would result in a large scale analysis, which I really do not want to get into, and which would encroach on the religious beliefs of some people, and which I also really do not want to do
Also, many people in this thread have stated opinions which I believe are broadly correct.I do currently believe that there is a heirarchy of higher light and dark side beings, but which however cannot be correctly referred to as good or evil (or satan) - they are all rightful aspects of the "One", notwithstanding the fact that the dark side beings, particularly the higher ones, can be extremely powerful and dangerous and to human beings.
I hope that isn't to convoluted
Kind regards,
Adrian.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Atlas on March 22, 2002, 20:07:41
Post by: Atlas on March 22, 2002, 20:07:41
>>There is no such thing as right or wrong. It is only what works and what doesn't work. It's all a matter of perspective.<<
ok Froggman, but Hitler thought it "worked" to cleanse Germany of subhumans by mass murdering millions of jews, not to mention all of Stalin's millions of murders. You really don't think this is "wrong"? You don't think it's wrong to rape a woman, as long as it works in satisfying a man's sexual desires? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just curious.
ok Froggman, but Hitler thought it "worked" to cleanse Germany of subhumans by mass murdering millions of jews, not to mention all of Stalin's millions of murders. You really don't think this is "wrong"? You don't think it's wrong to rape a woman, as long as it works in satisfying a man's sexual desires? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just curious.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: MJ-12 on March 22, 2002, 23:41:55
Post by: MJ-12 on March 22, 2002, 23:41:55
wda
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Adrian on March 23, 2002, 09:43:30
Post by: Adrian on March 23, 2002, 09:43:30
Greetings all!
Indeed. There is no such definition of good and evil per se, because everything has been created to be equal, on its respective realm and level of existence. But everything *is* subject to the universal Karmic laws of "cause and effect", so anyone or anything engaging in dark actions, can expect equally dark consequences as a direct result of those actions at some juncture.
Kind regards,
Adrian.
quote:
If one were to consider "work" as pertaining to The Great Work, spiritual enlightenment, etc., then causing a holocaust, or raping someone would not "work" very well.
Indeed. There is no such definition of good and evil per se, because everything has been created to be equal, on its respective realm and level of existence. But everything *is* subject to the universal Karmic laws of "cause and effect", so anyone or anything engaging in dark actions, can expect equally dark consequences as a direct result of those actions at some juncture.
Kind regards,
Adrian.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Tir13 on March 23, 2002, 18:41:29
Post by: Tir13 on March 23, 2002, 18:41:29
If you can accept the consequences for your actions, than I think you can justify it. *laughs* Unfortunately people don't realize what a high price they must eventually...pay. *sigh*
Lata!
Jason
Lata!
Jason
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Atlas on March 24, 2002, 18:13:49
Post by: Atlas on March 24, 2002, 18:13:49
>>If one were to consider "work" as pertaining to The Great Work, spiritual enlightenment, etc., then causing a holocaust, or raping someone would not "work" very well.<<
Well, but what is The Great Work and spiritual enlighenment? It's completely subjective. To you it may be one thing, to me it may be something else, it's only opinion really. I imagine Hitler only had the best intentions for Germany when he conducted his cleansing. So that also makes the idea of what "works" completley subjective. That's why I believe it's dangerous to a society to try to do away with a concept of an objective "right" and "wrong" because then it's no holds barred to achieve whatever one wants, so long as someone, anyone, believes it "works".
Well, but what is The Great Work and spiritual enlighenment? It's completely subjective. To you it may be one thing, to me it may be something else, it's only opinion really. I imagine Hitler only had the best intentions for Germany when he conducted his cleansing. So that also makes the idea of what "works" completley subjective. That's why I believe it's dangerous to a society to try to do away with a concept of an objective "right" and "wrong" because then it's no holds barred to achieve whatever one wants, so long as someone, anyone, believes it "works".
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Apocalypse Crow on March 24, 2002, 19:06:29
Post by: Apocalypse Crow on March 24, 2002, 19:06:29
Hey ppl!
This is the first time I post on this forum but my oppinion is that Satan is NOT a simple legend. His origins are hidden to most people but not to curiosers. Satan at the start of the times was an Angel, the best one there was, he efforted a lot for that but he wasn't the most loved one: that one was Jesus. Satan had envy of Jesus and he thought of a different approach of the way of life, and he took with him about 3/4 of the angels of the heaven and then on he tried to proof God that he was right instead of Him.
This is the first time I post on this forum but my oppinion is that Satan is NOT a simple legend. His origins are hidden to most people but not to curiosers. Satan at the start of the times was an Angel, the best one there was, he efforted a lot for that but he wasn't the most loved one: that one was Jesus. Satan had envy of Jesus and he thought of a different approach of the way of life, and he took with him about 3/4 of the angels of the heaven and then on he tried to proof God that he was right instead of Him.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Tir13 on March 24, 2002, 21:09:41
Post by: Tir13 on March 24, 2002, 21:09:41
3/4?...no I believe it was "a third of the stars of heaven fell" or something like that.
Jason
Jason
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Apocalypse Crow on March 25, 2002, 18:31:40
Post by: Apocalypse Crow on March 25, 2002, 18:31:40
whoops! that's what I meant, I just could not get the correct number in the moment :)
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Hephaestus on March 25, 2002, 18:39:17
Post by: Hephaestus on March 25, 2002, 18:39:17
To me God is 'us', God is made up of all the souls in the universe on some higher plane of existance where time does not exist and there are things we cannot even comprehend, I believe one day we will join with this union of souls and become 'God' ourselves.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Tir13 on March 25, 2002, 22:04:22
Post by: Tir13 on March 25, 2002, 22:04:22
Well, aren't we the transcendentalist? Hehe, sorry poking fun! :)
Night
Jason
Night
Jason
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: MJ-12 on March 25, 2002, 22:12:35
Post by: MJ-12 on March 25, 2002, 22:12:35
aa
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: n/a on March 25, 2002, 23:34:03
Post by: n/a on March 25, 2002, 23:34:03
I may be a simpleton on this topic, but it's my opinion.
I think all evil and bad doings, stems from the human animal itself.
Fear and survival which is programmed within us produces reactions that are distasteful when brought to the surface.
Hitler was following survival instincts as well...
Fear of others brings out hate in people, it is all part of our nature.
It has been this way all along, I think "satan" is just our excuse for blaming it on somebody else {survival instinct}, we have created this dark side, with all its manifestations, and pushed it aside. As if it was not of us, as if we were such a highly evolved race that this couldn't possibly be our doing!
Someday our collective consciousness will become more aware of these problems and deal with them, instead of pushing it aside or blaming someone else.
I also believe that in death of the human body, we shed these primeval human responses and return to a collective love and light existance. Pure in form and everlasting...
I think all evil and bad doings, stems from the human animal itself.
Fear and survival which is programmed within us produces reactions that are distasteful when brought to the surface.
Hitler was following survival instincts as well...
Fear of others brings out hate in people, it is all part of our nature.
It has been this way all along, I think "satan" is just our excuse for blaming it on somebody else {survival instinct}, we have created this dark side, with all its manifestations, and pushed it aside. As if it was not of us, as if we were such a highly evolved race that this couldn't possibly be our doing!
Someday our collective consciousness will become more aware of these problems and deal with them, instead of pushing it aside or blaming someone else.
I also believe that in death of the human body, we shed these primeval human responses and return to a collective love and light existance. Pure in form and everlasting...
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Qui-Gon Jinn on March 26, 2002, 13:59:44
Post by: Qui-Gon Jinn on March 26, 2002, 13:59:44
Let me present a code some of you may recognize;
"There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no death, there is the force."
The "there is" to the left in the Code, is what our subjective mind is capable of creating for itself.
The "there is" to the right in the Code, is what truly exists in the "force" ("god", or whatever word deems appropriate).
This we don´t need our subjective mind to perceive, our objective part of the mind can manage that just fine, although for most of us sadly, it helps ridding our subjective influence out of the equation.
In other words, there truly are no satan or evil other than what we (subjectively) create in our mind. A "theory" good as any, well, at least a theory...
Be well// Qui-Gon
- Your focus determines your reality -
Edited by - Qui-Gon Jinn on 26 March 2002 21:03:35
"There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no death, there is the force."
The "there is" to the left in the Code, is what our subjective mind is capable of creating for itself.
The "there is" to the right in the Code, is what truly exists in the "force" ("god", or whatever word deems appropriate).
This we don´t need our subjective mind to perceive, our objective part of the mind can manage that just fine, although for most of us sadly, it helps ridding our subjective influence out of the equation.
In other words, there truly are no satan or evil other than what we (subjectively) create in our mind. A "theory" good as any, well, at least a theory...
Be well// Qui-Gon
- Your focus determines your reality -
Edited by - Qui-Gon Jinn on 26 March 2002 21:03:35
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Tyler on December 10, 2003, 19:09:29
Post by: Tyler on December 10, 2003, 19:09:29
quote:
Originally posted by n/a
I also believe that in death of the human body, we shed these primeval human responses and return to a collective love and light existance. Pure in form and everlasting... [;)]
Yep, that is what will happen in the new age / The Kingdom / 4th dimensions / the shift ... whatever you want to call it.
We are now in the training ground, manipulating good and evil, trying out everything there is to try.
There is a massive 9 dimensional cosmic drama nearing its end, and the Earth is the theatre.
With us people as actors.
Our conscious minds do not realise that we are acting on this stage.
However after the shift the play will end and all actors the good and the bad, heroes and foes, will return to the stage, bow down and receive applause.
We will have 12 strand DNA and 12 chakras once again.
We will be aware of our all lifes and all the experiences we learned from them.
We will be reconnected with our higher selves.
We will make contact with Christ-like beings and other life forms.
It will happen very smoothly. Right now i can see our lives as us standing in the 4th D and dreaming / replaying all our life events. We are almost there. We are coming home.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: chupacabra on December 10, 2003, 21:37:26
Post by: chupacabra on December 10, 2003, 21:37:26
According to Elaine Pagels' "The Origin of Satan" the Jews spoke of him before the Christians assimilated him into their lore. With the Jews though, he was a faithful servant of God and sent down to Earth on errands to check up on certain people to make sure they were keeping the faith and would sometimes test their faith as well (can't rememeber the details on that).
The squabbling factions of Christians transformed him into the ultimate being of evilness so they could accuse rival factions of being under his influence and therefore not blessed with the true spirit of Christ.
As far as there being an ultimate evil entity out there, who knows? I think though that, like everything, the negative entities must evolve and slowly but surely realize their true essence, that they are part of the One as well.
..but that's probably just wishful thinking and I'm gonna burn in Hell for it.[;)]
What sucks is that we've been conditioned to believe in horrible devils and demons lurking about through church and and horror movies that it could potentially be a big stumbling block against succesful AP.
Ps-
sorry to get off topic but...
Tyler, have you witnessed any evidence of this shift, or are you re-asserting something someone else has said?
The squabbling factions of Christians transformed him into the ultimate being of evilness so they could accuse rival factions of being under his influence and therefore not blessed with the true spirit of Christ.
As far as there being an ultimate evil entity out there, who knows? I think though that, like everything, the negative entities must evolve and slowly but surely realize their true essence, that they are part of the One as well.
..but that's probably just wishful thinking and I'm gonna burn in Hell for it.[;)]
What sucks is that we've been conditioned to believe in horrible devils and demons lurking about through church and and horror movies that it could potentially be a big stumbling block against succesful AP.
Ps-
sorry to get off topic but...
Tyler, have you witnessed any evidence of this shift, or are you re-asserting something someone else has said?
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Tombo on December 11, 2003, 03:09:16
Post by: Tombo on December 11, 2003, 03:09:16
Qui-Gon Jinn, very well said!!I believe good/bad is just a concept of the human mind.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Dark_Phoenix on December 11, 2003, 08:35:56
Post by: Dark_Phoenix on December 11, 2003, 08:35:56
I believe there to be more then one god, but thats me and I could be wrong. this is also because i'm a low level mage and that I call to the gods of air sea earth and fire and so and so.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Squeek on December 11, 2003, 17:49:27
Post by: Squeek on December 11, 2003, 17:49:27
As old as this topic is, it's active now, and it has been moved to its proper location. However I highly doubt many of the original posters are still here [:)]
Also, try not to post twice in succession.
~Squeek
Also, try not to post twice in succession.
~Squeek
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Mustardseed on December 13, 2003, 22:16:12
Post by: Mustardseed on December 13, 2003, 22:16:12
Greetings all (thought I would try that)[;)]
God is real. He may not be the old man with the beard but he is a spirit. The most powerfull spirit in the astran dimensions. He is the spirit of love. All love is inspired by him. He is light and in him is no darkness at all. He is personified in his physical "son" Jesus who is God to us, lived in love and died for love so we could be with God forever.
The counterpart is the Prince of Darknes, Lucifer, the arch angel, one of the other "sons" of God. He is real too. He has been cast into earth to rule here for a time. He is known by many names and is also the prince of the power of the air. He has under his command defiant angels and spirits who are in rebellion to God. They are divided in various principalities ruled by princes of varying importance.
Regards Mustardseed
God is real. He may not be the old man with the beard but he is a spirit. The most powerfull spirit in the astran dimensions. He is the spirit of love. All love is inspired by him. He is light and in him is no darkness at all. He is personified in his physical "son" Jesus who is God to us, lived in love and died for love so we could be with God forever.
The counterpart is the Prince of Darknes, Lucifer, the arch angel, one of the other "sons" of God. He is real too. He has been cast into earth to rule here for a time. He is known by many names and is also the prince of the power of the air. He has under his command defiant angels and spirits who are in rebellion to God. They are divided in various principalities ruled by princes of varying importance.
Regards Mustardseed
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Gandalf on December 14, 2003, 11:58:00
Post by: Gandalf on December 14, 2003, 11:58:00
The counterpart is the Prince of Darknes, Lucifer, the arch angel, one of the other "sons" of God. He is real too. He has been cast into earth to rule here for a time. He is known by many names and is also the prince of the power of the air. He has under his command defiant angels and spirits who are in rebellion to God. They are divided in various principalities ruled by princes of varying importance.
So Satan is not 'evil' then as everything Satan has done was ordained by god; god created him with the capacity to rebel. If God did this on purpose this means that what we call 'evil' comes from god and is therefore 'good'.
If he didnt do it on purpose then he is obviously not as intelligent as you make him out to be?
If he did it out of nececety, as perhaps the universe can only exist with a balance of good and evil, this implies that god is not omnipotent as he cannot create a universe (or people) without evil. But if he is god an ominpotent why isnt it possible for him to create a pefectly good universe with perfect people in it?
Because he wanted to give us free will? however, if he can do anything, he could give us free will but create such good beings that could never conceive of doing anything bad, but he hasnt, because he cannot?
Douglas
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Coffee on December 14, 2003, 16:39:01
Post by: Coffee on December 14, 2003, 16:39:01
Have any of you ever had any experience with God or Satan that would prove the existance of either one of them?
It sounds like you've all based your information on philosophy or religious texts instead of experience.
I've had some experience with them, and I will recount it on a post called "Past lives" if you want to read it.
It sounds like you've all based your information on philosophy or religious texts instead of experience.
I've had some experience with them, and I will recount it on a post called "Past lives" if you want to read it.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Mustardseed on December 14, 2003, 17:17:11
Post by: Mustardseed on December 14, 2003, 17:17:11
Hi Gandalf I posted for you on another thread the one about Pastor whatever his name. So lets discuss this as well. It seems we come from very different places. I have no problem with your belief and would be glad to talk, however if you insist on pulling the conversation down to a tit for tat level with sarcasm and no humor I will be as glad to refrain. I have no problem with a good crack joke or pulling legs but destructive sarcasm and biting Irony is wasted on me.
In my opinion YES you are right Satan is no more evil trhat anyone else who rebels against God. His ability to wreck havoc is greater but in a way he is about the same as anyone else who conciously fights against love and kindness and decency.
I would not think so. This is the nature and the very heart of free will it can and does create Good and evil. Lets put it in a way that you relate to./ I assume you have been brought up in an avarage home. Love your folks but yoiu may or may not lie them. YOu could at any given time go out and buy a chainsaw and masacre them .or help them trim their trees.... One choice would, in my universe(opinion) make you eviul the other would not.
Are you serious. If you believe in God then do you think he is intelligent. Hello.......[;)]
I take this as a quib and an attempt to bait me or ...whatever.
You know Douglas you seem to be a pretty smart guy. Some of your posts impress me....not this one[:)] Just becourse you decide to not step; on an ant does that mean you are not able to and trhe ant is stronger than you????
It is but .......he apparently did not want that. He seems to want peoiple to come to him by choice. Thats all.????
Huh ......... I am not getting you[:)]
Have a nice day Douglas
Regards Mustardseed
quote:
So Satan is not 'evil' then as everything Satan has done was ordained by god; god created him with the capacity to rebel.
In my opinion YES you are right Satan is no more evil trhat anyone else who rebels against God. His ability to wreck havoc is greater but in a way he is about the same as anyone else who conciously fights against love and kindness and decency.
quote:
If God did this on purpose this means that what we call 'evil' comes from god and is therefore 'good'
I would not think so. This is the nature and the very heart of free will it can and does create Good and evil. Lets put it in a way that you relate to./ I assume you have been brought up in an avarage home. Love your folks but yoiu may or may not lie them. YOu could at any given time go out and buy a chainsaw and masacre them .or help them trim their trees.... One choice would, in my universe(opinion) make you eviul the other would not.
quote:
If he didnt do it on purpose then he is obviously not as intelligent as you make him out to be?
Are you serious. If you believe in God then do you think he is intelligent. Hello.......[;)]
I take this as a quib and an attempt to bait me or ...whatever.
quote:
If he did it out of nececety, as perhaps the universe can only exist with a balance of good and evil, this implies that god is not omnipotent as he cannot create a universe (or people) without evil.
You know Douglas you seem to be a pretty smart guy. Some of your posts impress me....not this one[:)] Just becourse you decide to not step; on an ant does that mean you are not able to and trhe ant is stronger than you????
quote:
But if he is god an ominpotent why isnt it possible for him to create a pefectly good universe with perfect people in it?
It is but .......he apparently did not want that. He seems to want peoiple to come to him by choice. Thats all.????
quote:
Because he wanted to give us free will? however, if he can do anything, he could give us free will but create such good beings that could never conceive of doing anything bad, but he hasnt, because he cannot?
Huh ......... I am not getting you[:)]
Have a nice day Douglas
Regards Mustardseed
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Coffee on December 14, 2003, 17:25:15
Post by: Coffee on December 14, 2003, 17:25:15
Mustardseed Mustardseed Mustardseed Mustardseed:
Remind me - why did God create an imperfect universe? And why is it up to us to repent for it?
Remind me - why did God create an imperfect universe? And why is it up to us to repent for it?
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Mustardseed on December 14, 2003, 19:41:58
Post by: Mustardseed on December 14, 2003, 19:41:58
Coffea Coffea Coffea Coffea
How should I know!!!! Are you perfect? ........I dont think so. I would guess ....Guess mind you, that he has his reasons and that his reasons is way above ours, I would also guess that if he is God he is wayyyyyy ahead of someone who calls themselves Coffea Gandalf and Mustardseed and derives their experiences fromn talking to a bunch of people on a Chat board that they know next to nothing about. What do you think?
In the future my condecending little friend....... be nice okay. At least give it a try, otherwise you will find people talking to them the way you talk to them.[;)]
Regards Mustardseed
How should I know!!!! Are you perfect? ........I dont think so. I would guess ....Guess mind you, that he has his reasons and that his reasons is way above ours, I would also guess that if he is God he is wayyyyyy ahead of someone who calls themselves Coffea Gandalf and Mustardseed and derives their experiences fromn talking to a bunch of people on a Chat board that they know next to nothing about. What do you think?
In the future my condecending little friend....... be nice okay. At least give it a try, otherwise you will find people talking to them the way you talk to them.[;)]
Regards Mustardseed
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: xander on December 14, 2003, 20:24:02
Post by: xander on December 14, 2003, 20:24:02
quote:
Originally posted by Mustardseed
I would guess ....Guess mind you, that God has his reasons and that his reasons is way above ours,
Well if he is going to hold me to a contract I know nothing about and didn't sign then he better be ready to explain himself or I will banish him with no more afterthought than when I banish a neg.
Oh and.....Hitler, Genghis Kahn, Ceaser, Stalin, etc all had their reasons. Their reasons didnt amount to much when the people around them heard thier inner voices cry foul and then decided to do something about it.
Xander
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: xander on December 14, 2003, 20:40:21
Post by: xander on December 14, 2003, 20:40:21
quote:
Originally posted by Coffee
Have any of you ever had any experience with God or Satan that would prove the existance of either one of them?
Much of what gets called satan is stupidity or fear on the part of humans. the word Satan means "adversary" so I geuss one could say that since mustardseed is my adversary he is then Satan.
no wonder he wants us to buy into the whole sin thing.
Xander
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Mustardseed on December 15, 2003, 20:07:54
Post by: Mustardseed on December 15, 2003, 20:07:54
Xander, I just got a great idea......have you ever considered stand up comedy.. You would be a blast[;)]
I would sure pay to see you have a go at the, stupid Christians. You could get some shaving cream and do the "foaming at the mouth"
rutine, I bet it would be great.
Good luck with your highschool examen ( or was it junior high [:X])
Regards Mustardseed
I would sure pay to see you have a go at the, stupid Christians. You could get some shaving cream and do the "foaming at the mouth"
rutine, I bet it would be great.
Good luck with your highschool examen ( or was it junior high [:X])
Regards Mustardseed
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Coffee on December 17, 2003, 20:06:54
Post by: Coffee on December 17, 2003, 20:06:54
Mustardseed-
As much as you post, I thought you would be doing more than guess work. If you don't take your posts seriously then why do you post?
Xander-
Very clever but this conversation has nothing to do with sin. It does have something to do with Astral Projection; do you have anything to say abouut that? Or are you foaming at the mouth?
As much as you post, I thought you would be doing more than guess work. If you don't take your posts seriously then why do you post?
Xander-
Very clever but this conversation has nothing to do with sin. It does have something to do with Astral Projection; do you have anything to say abouut that? Or are you foaming at the mouth?
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Mustardseed on December 18, 2003, 07:04:20
Post by: Mustardseed on December 18, 2003, 07:04:20
Hi Coffea
How are you today. Just to assure you I do take my posts seriously[;)], however once in a while people come in to a very serious conversation with some short remark, often with some condecending remark irony etc and derails the entire process, and subject "line". (that would be you [;)]) I then find myself answering them in the same tone, and though it is off subject and quite lame and nonproductive , it does bring some comical relief. I find the you have previously steered this and others conversation this way, as has Xander. If that is the way you are used to discussing things, you only confirm in my mind that you indeed are very young and not interested in other points of view than your own. This post might enrage you both for another tirade of sarcasm, and i will probably answer that one as well[;)][;)], thats how "mature" I am. Ha. Anyway might I suggest that you try to make your posts longer and let us all know what is really on your mind. This particular part of the forum is actually for discussion of such topics as sin , in case you would rather doscuss Astral travl. you might wanna go to Astral Chat.
Regards Mustardseed
How are you today. Just to assure you I do take my posts seriously[;)], however once in a while people come in to a very serious conversation with some short remark, often with some condecending remark irony etc and derails the entire process, and subject "line". (that would be you [;)]) I then find myself answering them in the same tone, and though it is off subject and quite lame and nonproductive , it does bring some comical relief. I find the you have previously steered this and others conversation this way, as has Xander. If that is the way you are used to discussing things, you only confirm in my mind that you indeed are very young and not interested in other points of view than your own. This post might enrage you both for another tirade of sarcasm, and i will probably answer that one as well[;)][;)], thats how "mature" I am. Ha. Anyway might I suggest that you try to make your posts longer and let us all know what is really on your mind. This particular part of the forum is actually for discussion of such topics as sin , in case you would rather doscuss Astral travl. you might wanna go to Astral Chat.
Regards Mustardseed
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Coffee on December 18, 2003, 09:50:30
Post by: Coffee on December 18, 2003, 09:50:30
Mustardseed:
you are beating a dead horse. Furthermore, religion and Astral Travel are inseperable and they always have been.
Maybe we should give you your own section in the forum: we'll call it "mustardseed's feelings" and I won't read it, because I'm not interested in your feelings. If you want to talk about ideas, I'm interested in ideas. Even other people's ideas.
If I make people mad with my ideas then hopefully they spend some time thinking about them. Then, if I am wrong, they will address my ideas in the forum and try to make me think.
Or they can call me names the way a mature person would.
you are beating a dead horse. Furthermore, religion and Astral Travel are inseperable and they always have been.
Maybe we should give you your own section in the forum: we'll call it "mustardseed's feelings" and I won't read it, because I'm not interested in your feelings. If you want to talk about ideas, I'm interested in ideas. Even other people's ideas.
If I make people mad with my ideas then hopefully they spend some time thinking about them. Then, if I am wrong, they will address my ideas in the forum and try to make me think.
Or they can call me names the way a mature person would.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Mustardseed on December 19, 2003, 11:43:10
Post by: Mustardseed on December 19, 2003, 11:43:10
Hi Coffea
Maybe I am beating a dead horse. If you thereby indicate that you do not want to read posts from me that is. But I have a feeling you will read this one!!
I know how YOU feel, your juvenile comments show it with tremendous clarity. I know what you are really after as well Coffea, the hot debate, the exchanges of clever wits the cutting sarcastic remarks and the feeling of.....ha that will get him. But in all that you show yourself very lacking of any real depth. Just a shallow and insecure individual, who believes that by provoking, agressing and getting ..."in their face" he will make people think.[:(]
All most people have to say to you after a couple of exchanges of opinion is .......ok my friend....have it your way....... WHATEVER[;)]
Your posts bring nothing to this forum Coffea......nothing.
Enjoy your life
Mustardseed
Maybe I am beating a dead horse. If you thereby indicate that you do not want to read posts from me that is. But I have a feeling you will read this one!!
I know how YOU feel, your juvenile comments show it with tremendous clarity. I know what you are really after as well Coffea, the hot debate, the exchanges of clever wits the cutting sarcastic remarks and the feeling of.....ha that will get him. But in all that you show yourself very lacking of any real depth. Just a shallow and insecure individual, who believes that by provoking, agressing and getting ..."in their face" he will make people think.[:(]
All most people have to say to you after a couple of exchanges of opinion is .......ok my friend....have it your way....... WHATEVER[;)]
Your posts bring nothing to this forum Coffea......nothing.
Enjoy your life
Mustardseed
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Coffee on December 19, 2003, 13:41:39
Post by: Coffee on December 19, 2003, 13:41:39
MS-
All I have done is question where you get your information, and why you believe it. If that is all it takes to get in your face, I'd hate to run into you in the real world. If I asked you those questions in person would you cry? Run away? Lash out with violence?
You've never answered any of those questions. Just like most people, you don't know why you believe things. You just guess, you said it your self.
But you will continue to call me a poo-poo booger eater until...well, until...it doesn't matter. Because we've all been called poo-poo booger eaters and that never stopped anybody, not even satan or jesus. Let me express how clever I am with two emoticons: [;)][;)]
Now let me express my sadness: [:(]
Anyways, some people come to forums like this not to validate the opinions they already have, but to find answers to questions.
So let's start over. I ask the question, the only question you have an answer to, and you post an answer.
MS; am I a poo-poo booger eater?
Now you tell me all about it.
All I have done is question where you get your information, and why you believe it. If that is all it takes to get in your face, I'd hate to run into you in the real world. If I asked you those questions in person would you cry? Run away? Lash out with violence?
You've never answered any of those questions. Just like most people, you don't know why you believe things. You just guess, you said it your self.
But you will continue to call me a poo-poo booger eater until...well, until...it doesn't matter. Because we've all been called poo-poo booger eaters and that never stopped anybody, not even satan or jesus. Let me express how clever I am with two emoticons: [;)][;)]
Now let me express my sadness: [:(]
Anyways, some people come to forums like this not to validate the opinions they already have, but to find answers to questions.
So let's start over. I ask the question, the only question you have an answer to, and you post an answer.
MS; am I a poo-poo booger eater?
Now you tell me all about it.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Mustardseed on December 19, 2003, 14:02:09
Post by: Mustardseed on December 19, 2003, 14:02:09
As I said.......whatever my little friend. Whatever[:D]
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Coffee on December 22, 2003, 16:02:10
Post by: Coffee on December 22, 2003, 16:02:10
Atlas-
I am very sorry that the responses went so far astray, noone seems to want to post here now.
As far as counterparts go, I've found out that Mustardseed is my counterpart.
Good luck with future posts
Coffee
I am very sorry that the responses went so far astray, noone seems to want to post here now.
As far as counterparts go, I've found out that Mustardseed is my counterpart.
Good luck with future posts
Coffee
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: GhostRider on December 24, 2003, 06:56:39
Post by: GhostRider on December 24, 2003, 06:56:39
If one is too believe in a yin/yang version of the universe then by all means Satan is God's equal and complete counterpart. I don't think that Satan is less powerfull than God because God would've gotten rid of such a vile and dangerous enemy a LONG time ago, if he was more powerful.
But then again, that presumes that I believe in either, and the jury is still out on that. Gotta run, plumbing emergency!
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: greatoutdoors on December 24, 2003, 08:38:26
Post by: greatoutdoors on December 24, 2003, 08:38:26
Atlas, I can only answer your question by inference, really, but it is at least logical inference. If you've read some of my other posts you know I try and tie metaphysical topics into their scientific origins. This question fits very nicely into one of the fundamental laws of physics: "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." The scientific community applies this law to various types of particles, matter and to natural forces like gravity, etc. The next logical step would be to apply it to the metaphysical realm as well. Therefore, if there are angels, then there are indeed demons. If there is a "God" (sentient or otherwise), then yes, there is an equivalent "Satan".
Froggman (and a few others),
The idea that there really is no good and no evil has been around since the politically correct crowd came into power. It is an effort to distance everyone from the consequences of their own actions and make everyone a "victim". Good and evil do exist, not as some esoteric concept, but in the choices we make every day. I know Atlas mentioned Hitler, but I can give more mundane examples. If you choose to hurt, tease or abuse an animal or human, that action is evil. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you give them a specific gesture in response, that action is evil. That action, by itself, does not make you evil, but the collective impact of evil decisions can do so. Our "soul" (call it what you will) is shaped by the sum of our experiences and choices. Lest you think good and evil is merely a Christian concept, both Wiccan and Druid philosophy (which pre-date Christianity by a good bit) warn, above all, to harm none. Practioners of those faiths who choose to cause harm are doing evil in two ways, first by inflicting harm and second by oath-breaking.
The consequences of evil actions, IMO, are up for grabs, depending on which faith you follow. Again, Wicca and the Druidic path caution that evil action by a practioner will bring evil in return. Maybe that's the basis of "reap what you sow" that came along later. But so long as we deny evil and practice casual cruelty, this world will be a sad place.
Hehpaestus, I sort of agree with your philosphy as to "God". I think, as I've said before, that we are like ants. We go quite cheerfully about our tiny little lives, totally ignorant of things around us that we cannot even imagine! The more scientific journals I read, the more this lesson is brought home to me.
Sorry for the long post! [:)]
Froggman (and a few others),
The idea that there really is no good and no evil has been around since the politically correct crowd came into power. It is an effort to distance everyone from the consequences of their own actions and make everyone a "victim". Good and evil do exist, not as some esoteric concept, but in the choices we make every day. I know Atlas mentioned Hitler, but I can give more mundane examples. If you choose to hurt, tease or abuse an animal or human, that action is evil. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you give them a specific gesture in response, that action is evil. That action, by itself, does not make you evil, but the collective impact of evil decisions can do so. Our "soul" (call it what you will) is shaped by the sum of our experiences and choices. Lest you think good and evil is merely a Christian concept, both Wiccan and Druid philosophy (which pre-date Christianity by a good bit) warn, above all, to harm none. Practioners of those faiths who choose to cause harm are doing evil in two ways, first by inflicting harm and second by oath-breaking.
The consequences of evil actions, IMO, are up for grabs, depending on which faith you follow. Again, Wicca and the Druidic path caution that evil action by a practioner will bring evil in return. Maybe that's the basis of "reap what you sow" that came along later. But so long as we deny evil and practice casual cruelty, this world will be a sad place.
Hehpaestus, I sort of agree with your philosphy as to "God". I think, as I've said before, that we are like ants. We go quite cheerfully about our tiny little lives, totally ignorant of things around us that we cannot even imagine! The more scientific journals I read, the more this lesson is brought home to me.
Sorry for the long post! [:)]
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: greatoutdoors on December 30, 2003, 12:33:31
Post by: greatoutdoors on December 30, 2003, 12:33:31
Come on folks, give me some comments on my thoughts here. One reason I like this forum is the good discussions we have! [:)]
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: wisp on December 30, 2003, 15:24:30
Post by: wisp on December 30, 2003, 15:24:30
Hi greatoutdoors,
Well, I agree with about everything you have said. I see evil as something produced. It didn't pre-exist, man and woman produces it. The polically correct movement is one of the most evil productions of this present day.I would like to say more when I get more time later.
How has scientific journals helped you?
Well, I agree with about everything you have said. I see evil as something produced. It didn't pre-exist, man and woman produces it. The polically correct movement is one of the most evil productions of this present day.I would like to say more when I get more time later.
How has scientific journals helped you?
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Coffee on December 30, 2003, 17:12:27
Post by: Coffee on December 30, 2003, 17:12:27
one of the fundamental laws of physics: "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
how do you know you can apply earthly laws of physics to God? If God exists (which I doubt) then I also doubt that fundamental law applies to him since he is all poweful.
I don't take oaths because I am bound to break them.
how do you know you can apply earthly laws of physics to God? If God exists (which I doubt) then I also doubt that fundamental law applies to him since he is all poweful.
I don't take oaths because I am bound to break them.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: greatoutdoors on December 31, 2003, 09:53:45
Post by: greatoutdoors on December 31, 2003, 09:53:45
Wisp, the only ones I'm taking right now are Scientific American and Discover. They show that today's scientists are not only discussing metaphysics as being real, but in some cases proving metaphysical concepts they wouldn't have believed in the past -- parallel dimensions, time travel, clairvoyance, and OOBE's just for starters. A couple of articles report on how OOBE's can be induced, but they haven't reported testing the actual experience, just its occurrence. Sometimes the articles are heavy sledding, but to me it's worth it.
Oh, one of the more recent topics has been whether fish can feel pain. The verdict of the investigating biologists was "Yes". Of course, that drew immediate fire from their more PC crowd. I could make a whole other post about that!
Coffee, I'm still ambiguous about a sentient "God" - you and I are in accord there. But so far, the evidence indicates the laws of physics are universal, not just earthly. So, if God exists, it would be logical (I'm a Star Trek fan) he/she/it would be bound by those laws. This is sort of borne out by the Yin/Yang concept of eastern philosophy. Of course, these are just my theories. I am woman, therefore changeable! [:D]
Thanks for the comments! [:)]
Oh, one of the more recent topics has been whether fish can feel pain. The verdict of the investigating biologists was "Yes". Of course, that drew immediate fire from their more PC crowd. I could make a whole other post about that!
Coffee, I'm still ambiguous about a sentient "God" - you and I are in accord there. But so far, the evidence indicates the laws of physics are universal, not just earthly. So, if God exists, it would be logical (I'm a Star Trek fan) he/she/it would be bound by those laws. This is sort of borne out by the Yin/Yang concept of eastern philosophy. Of course, these are just my theories. I am woman, therefore changeable! [:D]
Thanks for the comments! [:)]
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Coffee on December 31, 2003, 10:57:01
Post by: Coffee on December 31, 2003, 10:57:01
Great Outdoors-
I would like to read a couple good articles about clairavoyance and APing. Can you refer me to any?
I've read some old studies of clairavoyance, but they were done by clairavoyants instead of scientists so there was a lot of room for error in their tests.
I would like to read a couple good articles about clairavoyance and APing. Can you refer me to any?
I've read some old studies of clairavoyance, but they were done by clairavoyants instead of scientists so there was a lot of room for error in their tests.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: wisp on January 01, 2004, 00:32:47
Post by: wisp on January 01, 2004, 00:32:47
Happy New Year To All [:)]
Coffee, you do bring up an interesting point about God's Being, being different from the universal law concept. This is something I want to think about and observe from now on.
Until now, I have had a tendency to see universal laws an extention of God, the center, or God the beginning (creator). Your added obsevation has added the possibility to another dimension to me. A way I've been seeing universal law connected with God is in the same way the aura emits from one. By that, I mean universal law or the way things fall or happen are because of the original power affects. I hope this makes sense. In place of the word oath, I would have to use natural or universal law as words that suite me better. There is no doubt to me from my personal experiences that this balancing thing goes on. It's almost an automated thing, oftened called cause and effect. There are some things not understood to me. These being the possibility of spirit intervention(dark/light, both good from my pov), the opposition to this may be from what I guess so far is evil influence. This is the formation of combination of personality types, combination of political ideas exercised, and all the commonly known tempting vices,flesh loving addictions, ego effecting triggers, and all the other factors commonly known in all this conglomeration of subjects brought to the forefront of controversy and often targeted or labeled bad or evil by various groups, and with the added various opinions (with most, equally being relevent or true/false). For instance, I know there are profilers who can produce a pretty accurate picture of someone, based on all their compiled information. But, what about the compound aspects, such as, the changable factors in these same profiles, such as, the temporary chemistry between two persons together at a given time, another common one may be environmental.I don't mean to ramble, I'm just trying to draw out the various factors that may be the chemical reactions which cause the evil things. To be able to understand all these mentioned things, would seem to be prerequisite to deciding if a spirit is evil (or good?... for that matter). We may have to know(or least begin to understand) the nature of man, before we can know the nature of spirit. I'm not meaning to get into the discussion of political correctness, but, pc does a good job of covering up the nature of man/woman/children. This is the very thing that should be uncovered (exposed truths) to progress forward (Unless someone does not want this to happen! - another subject within itself).
I'm sure there are honest and sincere scientists. The other side of this is of course, is the scientists ill prepared within themselves to study or more important, influence others by their findings which may be flawed, purposefully, or not. An example I throw out is the concept that we create our reality (a belief I'm coming more to understand and see in my experiences). A flawed or uninformed scientist can create a false result easily by the very nature of their ability to do so.What if that person is prejudice or bias on some belief he/she holds, when in fact, the universe or natural law is quite different? I see this happening daily (imo)! This opens more opportunity for political correctness to be the next best truth, because many cannot or will not see or believe anything else. It's kind of another "follow the leader" into another blind alley.
I would be interested in hearing more of your pc opinions, greatoutdoors! For me, I see pc as a way to avoid any offensive move against the least amount of people, and at the same time,a way for this leader- wanna-be to please the largest number of the people. This is a trick on the mind of the masses, using a common people pleasing technique on a large scale. At the same time, truth seems unimportant, or at least watered down for people to become all the same, and if not, you are separated from the group by not conforming to the collective thought being introduced.
Coffee, you do bring up an interesting point about God's Being, being different from the universal law concept. This is something I want to think about and observe from now on.
Until now, I have had a tendency to see universal laws an extention of God, the center, or God the beginning (creator). Your added obsevation has added the possibility to another dimension to me. A way I've been seeing universal law connected with God is in the same way the aura emits from one. By that, I mean universal law or the way things fall or happen are because of the original power affects. I hope this makes sense. In place of the word oath, I would have to use natural or universal law as words that suite me better. There is no doubt to me from my personal experiences that this balancing thing goes on. It's almost an automated thing, oftened called cause and effect. There are some things not understood to me. These being the possibility of spirit intervention(dark/light, both good from my pov), the opposition to this may be from what I guess so far is evil influence. This is the formation of combination of personality types, combination of political ideas exercised, and all the commonly known tempting vices,flesh loving addictions, ego effecting triggers, and all the other factors commonly known in all this conglomeration of subjects brought to the forefront of controversy and often targeted or labeled bad or evil by various groups, and with the added various opinions (with most, equally being relevent or true/false). For instance, I know there are profilers who can produce a pretty accurate picture of someone, based on all their compiled information. But, what about the compound aspects, such as, the changable factors in these same profiles, such as, the temporary chemistry between two persons together at a given time, another common one may be environmental.I don't mean to ramble, I'm just trying to draw out the various factors that may be the chemical reactions which cause the evil things. To be able to understand all these mentioned things, would seem to be prerequisite to deciding if a spirit is evil (or good?... for that matter). We may have to know(or least begin to understand) the nature of man, before we can know the nature of spirit. I'm not meaning to get into the discussion of political correctness, but, pc does a good job of covering up the nature of man/woman/children. This is the very thing that should be uncovered (exposed truths) to progress forward (Unless someone does not want this to happen! - another subject within itself).
I'm sure there are honest and sincere scientists. The other side of this is of course, is the scientists ill prepared within themselves to study or more important, influence others by their findings which may be flawed, purposefully, or not. An example I throw out is the concept that we create our reality (a belief I'm coming more to understand and see in my experiences). A flawed or uninformed scientist can create a false result easily by the very nature of their ability to do so.What if that person is prejudice or bias on some belief he/she holds, when in fact, the universe or natural law is quite different? I see this happening daily (imo)! This opens more opportunity for political correctness to be the next best truth, because many cannot or will not see or believe anything else. It's kind of another "follow the leader" into another blind alley.
I would be interested in hearing more of your pc opinions, greatoutdoors! For me, I see pc as a way to avoid any offensive move against the least amount of people, and at the same time,a way for this leader- wanna-be to please the largest number of the people. This is a trick on the mind of the masses, using a common people pleasing technique on a large scale. At the same time, truth seems unimportant, or at least watered down for people to become all the same, and if not, you are separated from the group by not conforming to the collective thought being introduced.
Title: Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?
Post by: Atlas on March 10, 2002, 20:50:18
Post by: Atlas on March 10, 2002, 20:50:18
Hi,
I've read and heard you say on Art Bell I believe, that everything has its counterpart. There are arch-angels and arch-demons, demons and angels, negs and lower level good spirits, but is there a counterpart to God? Do you think there's a main evil being the rest come from?
I've read and heard you say on Art Bell I believe, that everything has its counterpart. There are arch-angels and arch-demons, demons and angels, negs and lower level good spirits, but is there a counterpart to God? Do you think there's a main evil being the rest come from?