I'm interested if anyone of you read The Da Vinci Code, and what is you opinion about HBHG (Holy Blood, Holy Grail) theory? Was Mary Magdalene really Jesus's wife?
I'm orthodox christian and I don't believe in this. The book is so interesting, and there are people who believe in that.
Maybe this is not a right topic for this forum. If moderator\administrator thinks that this topic stinks just delete it :)
I read the Da Vinci code. :)
I think it's definitely possible. On the other hand, however, I've heard that the 'masters,' as they are called, come to earth knowing what they are here to accomplish. Maybe that fact lead him to be so focused on what he was here to accomplish that normal, human desire was not an issue.
Just some thoughts. :)
Great thriller, but I don't really care about how true any of it is. Brown's onto a cash generator though!
Doug
Brown's book is an interesting compilation of ideas and legends that have been around for a long time.
Even though I disagree with the Christian thesis that Jesus and Mary were even real people at all, let alone this new idea---that they were parents of a child that was secreted away to France---I whole heartedly am very glad that The Da Vinci Code is doing so well.
Why?
Because it is planting seeds of alternative thought into the consciousness of a very wide range of people on this planet. This is absolutely necessary if we are ever going to get out from under the well-worn and outdated traditions that have come to us from antiquity.
Peace,
Beth
Well, I've read half of this book and it is more a nice action story than an analysis of historical events; he is using a really restricted scenario and linear kind of analysis which many hypotheses can rise up but are left out. As for the ''historical facts'' of Jesus, this books brings nothing. Why France? Why not Japan like Dr T.J. Chalko (http://www.thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm)! Maybe he had a wife, so that's cool! What's the problem?The next ''amazing hypothesis'' will be that he had a mustache and not a beard. I believe in his approach of love and compassion but whether he liked to wear sandals or not, if he had a kid or if he had long hair or short hair, they are superficial details (but it seems that some make a huge deal out of this....).
Take care,
Why France? The Da Vinci Code is a fiction. Conspiracy Theory. Brown 'attacked' Catholic Church.. Why not any orthodox or protestand Church?? And whole idea life of Jessus Chirst is old, he just recycled it and gave it new look. Just to make money I think...
Dear Astral,
You asked:
>Why France?
Because if you read the book you would know that Brown is creating his story from at least two other books that are written as non-fiction: The Holy Blood Holy Grail (which was written first) and The Woman With The Alabaster Jar (which was written in respose to the first.) Both of these books claim that Mary Magdalene became pregnant with Jesus' child, and after his death fled to France. The child was raised in France, and legend has it that "The Black Madonna Cult" arose from Mary and her daughter Sarah being 'hidden away' in that country. According to the research, this cult is a part of the history of France...
>The Da Vinci Code is a fiction.
Yes, as a complete work it is.
>Conspiracy Theory.
Yes, it certainly contains this element as well.
>Brown 'attacked' Catholic Church.. Why not any orthodox or protestand Church??
Because the legends that surround this mystery began long ago when the Catholic Church was the only church. Protestantism did not begin to develop until the 16th century, and by then the Catholic Church had already been in business for over a thousand years.
>And whole idea life of Jessus Chirst is old, he just recycled it and gave it new look.
IMO Brown is writing about the things that he and other people are interested in reading. People want Jesus to be 'recycled' (if that is the word you want to use), or else the book would not be a #1 Best Seller for so long...
>Just to make money I think...
The 'tons of money' that he has made from this book (as well as all his other books) is no doubt a great bonus for Brown, but as a writer myself, sometimes it is the 'story' that lives within a writer and as such...it must be told...
Besides, everybody has to make money to live in this materialistic world...why not make money doing what you love to do....that is, 'write the stories that live within you'????
Now, if you have a problem with Brown making money off of the Bible and off of a 'recycled' Jesus, well Astral, people have been making money off of 'Jesus' for as long as Christianity has existed...and I might add, the money that Dan Brown has made from his book is nothing compared to the amount the Christian Church (both Catholic and Protestant) has made off of Jesus throughout the centuries.
Peace,
Beth
Well, I didn't asked why France... patapouf did that.. :)
Catholic Church wasn't the only Church. Catholic & Orthodox were one Church until 1054. Protestant Church is something else... I'm just asking why not Orthodox Church?
Dear Astral,
Okay, I see where
patapouf originally asked about France, but you did pose the question:
Quote from: Astral ProjectionBrown 'attacked' Catholic Church.. Why not any orthodox or protestand Church?? And whole idea life of Jessus Chirst is old, he just recycled it and gave it new look. Just to make money I think...
And I answered all the questions accordingly (in as much as I can without consulting Brown himself!)
Now you ask why 'Catholic proper' and not 'Orthodox'? Well, I cannot answer that either, it is Brown's book afterall, except to assume that the 'Orthodox Church' has not played into the many legends that come together in Brown's fictional creation. The legends have all pertained to the Catholic Church/Vatican in Rome and the many Popes that have held that office throughout the centuries.
If you read up on the history of the church you will see where on more than one occasion through the centuries, the Pope of the Catholic Church (primarily in Rome) has been challenged by reigning monarchs in other countries, one of which was France. These challenges had everything to do with the bloodline of divine rule...and the Divine Right of Kingship based upon the bloodline of Jesus set forth in the Gospels. This same contest may have had a lot to do with the development of the early legends regarding the holy grail.
Peace,
Beth
I agree that people can be a bit 'westo-centric' sometimes and forget about the Orthodox church, which a lot of people in America and Britain seem to forget about, even although it is huge, both in Eastern Europe and Russia, where it is the state religion. They are as 'original' as the Catholic church and indeed only formally split due to various issues in the 11th century.
Some of their doctrines do differ drastically however. For example, as far as I know, St Augustine's theory of Original Sin which has been hugely influential in western Europe and America (cf bible thumping preachers etc!) has NEVER been accepted by the Orthodox church to this day, and it is still their view that people are *born innocent*... which makes much more sense in my view.
I also get tired with the constant attacks on the catholic church by protestant groups in america. Brown's book seems very risque but in actual fact it is just another *very safe* sectarian rant from the protestant majority in the US, where Brown's book is designed to go down well; everyone loves to hear about the latest 'evils' of the 'satanic' catholic church (do you think such a story telling us about the evils of the protestant church would be as well received? I think not)..... all pretty sad imv.. and I'm not catholic or indeed any form of christian.
Good read though!
Doug
Hey Doug,
Well put.
I have always found it interesting that throughout the development of Christianity, claim has been made to an ancient root tradition, and yet throughout the centuries has continually pruned itself away from its origins more and more. From these various prunings, the different sects that have arisen have done so by breathing life into the individual limbs rather than ever embrace the whole tree--root system included.
Christianity in general may still be going strong, but when all the sects are looked at individually within the whole, it becomes blantantly clear how terribly fractured and fragmented the religion has become. Most Christian sects do not even know what separates them from the other sects for most are totally unaware of their own religious history.
IMO Judaism, while it too has divided more than once, has still fared much better through the centuries than has Christianity.
Just my thoughts on the matter!
:) Beth
Interesting, as a matter of fact, religious practices have always been adapted to particular cultural practices and this syncretisim can still be observed today; it is a normal process because cultures change throughout time. (ex: Mayan's syncretized Christian religion costumbreand there are so many other examples!).
Of course we know that this organization was and is still highly corrupted, we all know it if we look at the state of the world today and what they have done. Jesus was telling them that they were a bunch of hypocrites; probably a similar scenario would be seen if he was here in the present, and this would not surprise anybody.
A problem that I see is that the book have an Hollywood kind of scenario that give the impression that the ''good secret societies'' are trying to hold the truth against the ''evil church'' kind of approach; they completely divide them when many of highly corrupted ''religious'' persons are probably also Freemasons. Anyway, the trend now his to show to the masses how ''cool'' the ''secret'' symbology of secret societies are; a good example (and similar scenario to the Da Vinci Code) is the movie National Treasure. Some people asked me: ''Did you read the Da Vinci Code, wow, there is some cool stuff hiding in the paints of Leonard(...) bla bla...'' Many might interpret this as ''facts'' or ''truth'' and it's the major problem that i see....
Take care,
Hey patapouf...nice to 'read' you!
You wrote:
QuoteJesus was telling them that they were a bunch of hypocrites; probably a similar scenario would be seen if he was here in the present, and this would not surprise anybody...
Oh my yes! If a 'Jesus' were to come today with the exact same message, then just like the legend professes, it would have been his own people---in this case Christianity---that would surely see him put to death!
Quote...Anyway, the trend now his to show to the masses how ''cool'' the ''secret'' symbology of secret societies are... Many might interpret this as ''facts'' or ''truth'' and it's the major problem that i see...
Yes, this must be a part of the human condition: Just like the countless numbers of people throughout the centuries that have always chosen to believe that fiction is 'truth'. This is most especially the case with the Christian Church claiming historical veracity for the Gospels and Pauline Epistles when accepting them as fiction would have been the rational thing to do.
But also patapouf,
there are definately many secrets hidden within the bible that very few know about, and if the Church has known about them in the past, then there has certainly been a motive to keep those secrets under wraps! This does not require a conspiracy theory
per se, but rather, just a revealing of the secrets!
Peace,
Beth