The differences between Hinduism and Buddhism

[Gandalf]

Well, its not a simple answer, since there are two main forms of buddhism; Northern Buddhism and Southern Buddhism.

The southern Buddhism is considered the 'original' and apparantly follows Buddha's original teachings from 500BCE. This form is now the minority form of buddhism and is practiced only in Thailand, Vietnam and a few other places.

Northern Buddhism, formed out of the teachings of a group of monks who split off from the original teachings, although it is still pretty old, having formed around 300BCE.

This spread to the rest of Asia and is the from of buddhism practiced in Tibet, China and Japan. Northen Buddhism is the majority form of buddhism in the world today.
Of course, the forms of Northern Buddhism practiced in these countries have developed into their own ditinctive sub-groups, like Zen Buddhism in Japan, and Varyjiana (?) Buddhism in Tibet. However all thse sub groupings are all forms of *Northern Buddhism*.


Now in Hinduism, the fundamental truth is that there is the 'ALL', a pantheistic notion that everything in the universe is ONE, a conscious entity which pervades and IS everything. Actually, strictly speaking it is Panentheistic as the ALL includes more than just our observable universe but also the astral and mental levels and other worlds.

The highest gods in Hinduism are manifistations of this intelligence although they have some independent action as well.
In addition there are many minor deities and spirits worshipped only on local village level, like local village goddesses for example.

The ultimate goal of every human is to escape from the endless chain of reincarnation and return to the source, the ALL, which is at the core of our individual selves (remember we are all part of the ONE as well). Our ultimate aim is to merge with and become the ALL.


Now, in original S buddhism, Buddha doesnt really teach this. He DOES agree that our aim is to escape the endless cycle of reincarnation, but our goal is not to merge with the ALL, but to escape even from that, and escape outside of EVERYTHING, the Void. He uses the metaphor of the fire, and once our desires are used up then the ashes are cold, this is the state we are looking for.
However many problems arise because people dont realise the theory behind fire which was common in Buddha's day.
In his time fire was seen as an energy which was diffused evenly throughout the cosmos, but was brought together in the burning process and fed off the wood. When all the fuel is used up, the fire *disperses again* throughout the cosmos.
This is the idea that Buddha is getting at. Not really at One with the universe but somehow distributed throughout and outside of it.
He doesnt explain this idea any further, saying it must be experienced.

Now, the N buddhists split off from the original group as they had begun to find some problems with Buddha's original teachings and his lack of clarity on other points. However, unlike other academic philosophies or christian theologans, their disagreements did not come about through philisophical debates; their findings were via direct experience through meditation and altered states.

This was in fact going along with just what the Buddha had originally advised: 'don't take my word for anything, go and find out and explore for yourselves'. They did, and their explorations uncovered many new findings which the old guard didnt like, hence the split.
However, N Buddhism is now the most popular form of Buddhism in the world.

the N buddhist clarified the problem of what Nirvana is all about.
The original Buddha had fudged the issue, but the N buddhists found through their meditations that it WAS in fact a reuniting with the ALL; the All also lies at the core of our being and behind the illusion of individuality which we must destroy in oreder to achieve this bliss.
In many ways the N buddhists have actually returned to the Hindu concept of Brahman or the 'ALL'.

Buddhists (north and south) accept the existence of the Hindu deities but dont think they are worthy of worship. the gods are just another 'class' of being that life-forms can reincarnate into; these different classes reside on different realms on the 'Wheel of life':

These realms are 'Hell', Hungry ghost, Animal realm, Human, Jealous god realm, God realm. These are all the realms that beings reinacarnate into on a never-ending basis. The god realms are the most pleasant ones and the life span for gods is long, thousands or millians of years. However, the beings of ALL these realms must eventially die and go to whatever realm thier karma dictates; none of them are permanent states.
Buddhists regard hindu deities (and other deities) as beings who have reincarnated into one of the god realms.

The above realms form the wheel of life and is the endless cycle of which we all belong and which it is our goal to escape.

However, after this point, N and S buddhists disagree. In both cases, beings who escape the cycle of reinacarnation go to levels beyond the ones mentioned above. They continue their development until they are ready to enter Nirvana.
These beings are labled boddhivistas and are extremely powerful. However, although the original S Buddhists accept the existence of beings at this level, they believe that they have no interest in the affairs of others, they are only focused on their own goal.

The N Buddhists found this idea to be incorrect as it seemed to contradict the Buddhist ideal of compassion; surely any enlightened being would be concerned for its less fortunate members!

Therefore, N Buddhists, maintain that Boddivistas stop just short of entering nirvana and stay behind to help other beings on the path. They can be prayed to and can assist in the same way as gods, but boddhivistas differ from gods since they only have pure unconditional love as their motive and do not expect worship or reward. Gods on the other hand are usually in it to get something for themselves; however they can still be useful in their own right.

Moreover, as some of these boddhivistas have been around for so long, many have been recognised as deities by some peoples.
For example, the Dalai Lama is actually a reincarnation of the goddess of compassion (cant remember the name), although strictly she is a boddivista.

Northern Buddhists also accept OTHER buddhas as well, basically we all have buddha nature in us so that is not suprising. Buddha therefor can manifest in various forms. There is a *trinity aspect* to Buddha; his first aspect as 'the All', his second aspect as himself residing on the highest levels to teach and guide others (sometimes through various aspects/buddha types), and a third aspect which can manifest in the physical world. The original buddha was himself in his physical aspect. Really he could manifest in any of us.
In this way, N buddhists can be accepting of other religions. Christ for example can be seen as a form of buddha, or as is more usual, he is regarded as a boddhivista.

Oh yeah, N buddhists believe that EVERYONE can, if they live according to the moral principles outlined by Buddha, eventially, after many lifetimes achieve boddhivista level and eventially Nirvana.

S buddhists on the other hand believe that you HAVE to be a monk.
Again this elitist stance iritated many early budhists.

This is why in N buddhist countries, ie Tibet, China Japan, EVERYONE are corrctly classed as buddhists, Lay Buddhists to be precise, even if most have never meditated in their lives. Of course, in these countres there are monks, but they are on the 'fast track' to enlightenment, rather than taking the slow route. Tibetan monks for example want to achieve it in one lifetime, and Zen buddhism teaches you to sample it DURING your life.

The west on the other hand has the mistaken conception that all buddhists equal *monks*. This is not the case. Only the minority southern buddhists believe this. It is like saying that you are only properly a christian if you are a monk.

Part of the reason for the buddhism/monk equation in the west is, I think, because it is the minority S buddhism that is usually packaged for the west; possibly westerners like it as it is meant to be the 'original' teachings of buddha. However branches of Northern buddhism have also been popular in the west to some extent, such as Tibetan Buddhism and Zen buddhism, so it is not clear cut.

Just to clarify, around 75% of buddhists belong to denominations of N buddhisma while only 25% belong to S buddhism.

Getting back to the original subject, which I have went way off track with, the Hindu's are a bit snobby when it comes to this and are a bit like the S buddhists in a way, since they belive that the best way to score point is to be in tone of the priest castes or to become a holy man, however I am not sure that it is an absolute requirement or not.

In short, Northern Buddhism probably has more in common with Hinduism than its southern counterpart, although Hinduism doesnt categorise other worlds into the same realms as Buddhism does.


Just to add, I would say that at least 50% of New age ideas come from Hindu doctrine; these include, Reincarnation, Brahmin/Pantheism/The ALL, Astral plains, Karma, Mental plains, chakra system, akashic records, energy working in general, guides and other deities of various descriptions.
In short, you could perhaps term the New Age movement as 'Hinduism for the west'.


Regards,
Douglas

[Shinobi]

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[Gandalf]

Hey Shinobi, yeah you are right, I have been doing a bit of research since our last chat!

I'm sure you know much more about the details than me, I was just giving a summery of the various types of buddhism around, according to my research.

Cetainly, from what i have read it is the case that all Buddhism falls into two overall catergories, northern and southern, or the 'Greater wheel' and the 'lesser wheel' (you give the correct names in your post). The form practiced in Japan Tibet and China is Northern, and the 'lesser wheel' is practiced in Vietnam and Thailand.

The Southern is regarded as the original.

There are BIG differences between the two, from what I have read.

I would like you to clarify what you know of the whole Nirvana concept.
Certainly, from what I have read, all the variations of Northern Buddhism lean towards a concept of reuniting with the 'all', similar to the Hindu idea, whether the southern variety leans away from this concept. There is a definate 'trinity' concept which I have found in Northern buddhism, with the buddha's first aspect being the embodiment of the universe or 'the all'.

Yes, your are right about the Dalai Lama being a reincarnation of the Buddha of compassion, but in my researches, which centred on chinese intepretations, he is seen as a woman ( at least, that is how the genderless boddhavista presents itself).

Do you agree with my findings that the southern buddhists do not accept the boddhivista 'ideal'? They deny that these beings have any interest in helping others.

Also, the idea of lay buddhists, who make up the vast majority of buddist religion: Northern buddhists, ie Tibet, China and Japan accept that everyone can reach buddhahood eventially, the monks on the otherhand, are on the fast track.

However, the southern buddhists are strict that only monks are true buddhists and are actually working towards buddhahood.
This is why I had the idea that it was perhaps the southern or 'original' buddhism that was packaged for the west, as I think you would agree, most peoples' conception of a buddhist here is a *monk*, but my chinese friends are all regarded as buddhists *within their own culture* even although they have never meditated in their lives, they still go to the temples etc. Just like in Hong Kong or wherever, they all regard themselves as buddhists, and Northern buddhism accepts this.

Please comment!

Douglas

[Shinobi]

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[Hiebreed]

What are the differences between Hinduism and Buddhism. Can you please explain the differences, thank u:)