I was just wondering? :?
As i was christian and have heared several opinions i will make a little summary for you : )
All of this is Lucifer's Plan to missdirect people all this infromation which we receive so called " Universal Knowledge " " Knowledge from astral" "energetic information" and so on is controlled by demons and different beings in physical and astral plane are demons in disguise and for christians astral projeciton; third-eye "opening" and so on is demonic
My own personal opinion is that religion (not just Christianity) is a control system
I don't believe in demons there is no battle between good and evil over you soul
Astral travel is just a exploration of your own consciousness
There is nothing evil about delving deeper into learning about your higher self
At the end of the day there is only you here now in this moment perceiving the phenomenon of existence let it unfold in front of you and you don't have to fear anything about just being because that is your true nature
Sorry.I just realized this should probably be in the religion message board.
My opinion is all relgions have become based to much on literal interpritations and blind faith, and not the intended meaning for which they were created. The teachings of all religious texts (the gita the tora and the old and new testamit) all taught the same exact thing just in different metaphors
The student through the fallowing of the do n donts of life and the mastery of right posture give man self control over the body at witch point he can withdraw the life energy of the body to the spine and brain , witch results in the shutting off of the five senses and disrupting thots that are a product of the senses. By being fully withdrawn and concentrated with one pointed concentration the student directs that concentration towards the only reflection of god in creation the aum vibration or holy ghost , when man identafies himself with the aum vibration and the perfect reflection of gods consciousness inherant in it, his sence of self expands from the limited human body conciousness to the universal christ conciousness eventualy reaching the trancendant state of cosmic conciousness beyond all creation.
All relgions were never ment to teach people to fallow blindly,it was intended to give man the means by witch he can experience and know the source himself through effort instead of going to churchianity and listening to a man whos never met god tell you about god from what hes learned in a book .
So ya christianity teaches how to reach the astral states and beyond just like every other religion , but christians themselfs and all churchianity have misunderstood the knowledge and teachings and led man on a wild goosechase with no reasonable end which is why they waste there time worrying about demons and so on
.
But ya thats just my opinion from my learning and experiences
And the third eye is the reflection of the medulla in the forhead its the source of gods intuitional wisdom and the only pathway the sole can take to reach cosmic conciousness beyond creation nothing to do with satan or demons thats just fear mongering
Why didn't you ask what Buddhists, Hindus or atheists think about it too?
If you check astral projection on YouTube you will find some danger of astral projection videos put out by fear based church groups. Some Christians fear any thing out side there beliefs.
In fact, what do Russians think about Disco Dance?
If you are a Christian, why rely on what other Christians think? Are you okay with delegating your thinking to masses of people like this for other things too?
If you are not a Christian, what does it matter to you? Lots of people think lots of bizarre things about metaphysics. Almost all of those things are certain to be wrong. I am certain most of what is believed here on this site is probably wrong too.
Just have to think for yourself, no real way around it! :wink:
I like delegating my thinking to the masses... it means I can then deal with more important issues, such as... do I have pork bacon or chicken bacon for dinner later!! THE MYSTERIES OF THE MYSTERIES!! :)
Quote from: no_leaf_clover on February 08, 2016, 21:42:29
Why didn't you ask what Buddhists, Hindus or atheists think about it too?
I asked the christians because they seem the most closed minded to this kind of stuff.:(
Quote from: lucid dream lover on August 07, 2016, 17:56:27
I asked the christians because they seem the most closed minded to this kind of stuff.:(
It is comments like these that just truly mystify me. They are completely untrue.
There is another religion where it is the death penalty for "this kind of stuff" and it isn't just an old antiquated tradition. They routinely hang people in the public square for this. Usually every weekend.
There is another religion in India where a family was murdered ... for the crime of eating beef.
Neither of these are Christian.
In reality, some of the major Christian sects are highly tolerant of much of "this kind of stuff". Look at Padre Pio (they made him a Saint) and others too numerous to list.
I wonder if anti-religionists will ever get over this bigotry.
Quote from: RobertForsythe on August 07, 2016, 18:27:57
It is comments like these that just truly mystify me. They are completely untrue.
There is another religion where it is the death penalty for "this kind of stuff" and it isn't just an old antiquated tradition. They routinely hang people in the public square for this. Usually every weekend.
There is another religion in India where a family was murdered ... for the crime of eating beef.
Neither of these are Christian.
In reality, some of the major Christian sects are highly tolerant of much of "this kind of stuff". Look at Padre Pio (they made him a Saint) and others too numerous to list.
I wonder if anti-religionists will ever get over this bigotry.
I think the topic of closed-mindedness rather was meant to be what they believe AP to be or to mean in their frame of reference. Not if they are tolerant or not and how they react to other beliefs or experiences.
Quote from: Volgerle on August 08, 2016, 19:34:13
I think the topic of closed-mindedness rather was meant to be what they believe AP to be or to mean in their frame of reference. Not if they are tolerant or not and how they react to other beliefs or experiences.
And let's face it, you can take ANY segment of the population and find, at the same time, the best and worst of us contained within. :)
No one group has cornered the market on ignorance.
Quote from: Volgerle on August 08, 2016, 19:34:13
I think the topic of closed-mindedness rather was meant to be what they believe AP to be or to mean in their frame of reference. Not if they are tolerant or not and how they react to other beliefs or experiences.
Maybe the OP can clarify again. I gave some examples to elucidate clearly how Christians are, relatively speaking, one of the more open-minded groups on this topic. Belief about what AP may be varies widely ... I am not sure how "belief" fits in here.
When I was a christian I was introduced to the thought of astral projection when I was about 14. In my past experiences this kind of stuff was looked at in a way of a illusion by Satan or something and was not to be trusted... I then got over the fear religion controlling me and my now to be true philosophy's. I let religion go so I could continue into the non physical with no doubts and to create unbiased conscious that can label things to the best of my ability.
I've had some interesting conversations on this topic with Jehovas witnesses, they don't practice the art and only those on the upper eschelons are permitted to comment on with any authority. I could have had a meeting if I joined...
The Christians instantly mentioned it's devils work to which my life saving responses met with deaf eats unfortunately.
The Catholics wouldn't comment as it was for high authorities to address.
All were very respectful and polite.
Quote from: Szaxx on August 18, 2016, 11:03:16
I've had some interesting conversations on this topic with Jehovas witnesses, they don't practice the art and only those on the upper eschelons are permitted to comment on with any authority. I could have had a meeting if I joined...
The Christians instantly mentioned it's devils work to which my life saving responses met with deaf eats unfortunately.
The Catholics wouldn't comment as it was for high authorities to address.
All were very respectful and polite.
Well, most people "don't practice the art" (even most of those who say they do).
And of course it is left to the authorities to "comment with authority"... that's their job.
I do not know about the Jehovah's Witnesses but I can speak about the Catholic reality. If you ask a Catholic about AP and they say it is "for high authorities to address" it only means they do not wish to comment... usually because they have no clue whatsoever. It certainly isn't because they are not allowed to comment. Catholics are free to think whatever they wish and harbor doubts, disagree with authority sunup to sundown right up to the moment they die and it does not affect the state or degree of salvation they might enjoy. They can discuss LD and AP among friends, colleagues and family and hold forth with any opinion they like. The Church does not begrudge them that freedom, not one whit. Many people were surprised, to say the least, to read in Mother Theresa's journals the broad extent and depth of doubts she harbored. They *still* made her a Saint.
Where the line gets drawn is "open and PUBLIC REFUTATION of Authority" which makes sense if you think about it. If you are in that sort of mood why don't you just quit. That's what I did.
Just as a point of reference here is one devout Catholic's website;
http://www.outofbodytravel.org/outofbodytraveltv/catholicteaching.html
I watched a few of her youtube videos and perused a few of her books and imho, she was one of the world's foremost practitioners of astral projection, at least, while she was in her prime. (I have noticed that very few practitioners can keep up a pace like that).
I hope that link will help dispel some of the false notions that people keep repeating.
Well, I have a lot of Christian friends, I have attended bible studies and church services so what they believe is that you can get to heaven ONLY through Jesus. They dont believe there are ghosts. They believe any supernatural stuff are from the devil. During one bible study a few years ago one of the ladies was talking and she said something about the new age , AP and all that garbage that young people believe in and how the Christianity needs to fight these evil teachings and everyone agreed. I did not say anything, because if I told them that I could AP and have been to heaven, they would have called a pastor to expel satan out of me LOL. So, this is what the majority think. There are of course more open minded individuals among all religions, scientists, atheists, etc who are interested in all that and talk about it. But the majority of them dont.
Quote from: LightBeam on August 18, 2016, 18:04:51
Well, I have a lot of Christian friends, I have attended bible studies and church services so what they believe is that you can get to heaven ONLY through Jesus. They dont believe there are ghosts. They believe any supernatural stuff are from the devil. During one bible study a few years ago one of the ladies was talking and she said something about the new age , AP and all that garbage that young people believe in and how the Christianity needs to fight these evil teachings and everyone agreed. I did not say anything, because if I told them that I could AP and have been to heaven, they would have called a pastor to expel satan out of me LOL. So, this is what the majority think. There are of course more open minded individuals among all religions, scientists, atheists, etc who are interested in all that and talk about it. But the majority of them dont.
What?
"So, this is what the majority think"
Please allow me... I disagree.
The largest Christian Denomination in the World, by far, is Roman Catholic -- and if you said something like that among them they would NOT "have called a pastor to expel satan out of me"... not at all.
Then there are the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican, ... etc. -- None of which would respond in that manner.
What you are describing is more typical of a Southern Baptist type church and the many spinoffs of that genre. They are a definite MINORITY. We are talking about 1.7 billion or more orthodox Christians versus a few hundred million of the free wheeling bible thumpin' variety.
2 Largest [Christian] denominational families and denominations
2.1 Catholicism - 1.2 billion
2.2 Protestantism - 800 million
2.3 Eastern Orthodoxy - 225–300 million
2.4 Oriental Orthodoxy - 86 million
2.5 Anglicanism - 85 million
2.6 Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism - 42–48 million
2.7 Church of the East - 0.6 million
I would say that about half the Protestant Christians would NOT react the way you described. Not the Methodists, not the Lutherans, and certainly not the Episcopal. My Lutheran Grandmother was where we kids got our first Ouija board to play with.
1. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.2 million members
2. The United Methodist Church: 7.8 million members
3. The Church of God in Christ: 5.5 million members
4. National Baptist Convention: 5.0 million members
5. Evangelical Lutheran Church, U.S.A.: 4.5 million members
6. National Baptist Convention of America: 3.5 million members
7. Assemblies of God: 2.9 million members
8. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.): 2.8 million members
9. African Methodist Episcopal Church: 2.5 million members
10. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America: 2.5 million members
11. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS): 2.3 million members
12. The Episcopal Church: 2.0 million members
13. Churches of Christ: 1.6 million members
14. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World: 1.5 million members
15. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church: 1.4 million members
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/the-15-largest-protestant-denominations-in-the-united-states-92731/#s0eiZCd60ryXqjlK.99
Quote from: RobertForsythe on August 18, 2016, 22:35:10
What?
"So, this is what the majority think"
Please allow me... I disagree.
The largest Christian Denomination in the World, by far, is Roman Catholic -- and if you said something like that among them they would NOT "have called a pastor to expel satan out of me"... not at all.
Then there are the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican, ... etc. -- None of which would respond in that manner.
What you are describing is more typical of a Southern Baptist type church and the many spinoffs of that genre. They are a definite MINORITY. We are talking about 1.7 billion or more orthodox Christians versus a few hundred million of the free wheeling bible thumpin' variety.
2 Largest [Christian] denominational families and denominations
2.1 Catholicism - 1.2 billion
2.2 Protestantism - 800 million
2.3 Eastern Orthodoxy - 225–300 million
2.4 Oriental Orthodoxy - 86 million
2.5 Anglicanism - 85 million
2.6 Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism - 42–48 million
2.7 Church of the East - 0.6 million
I would say that about half the Protestant Christians would NOT react the way you described. Not the Methodists, not the Lutherans, and certainly not the Episcopal. My Lutheran Grandmother was where we kids got our first Ouija board to play with.
1. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.2 million members
2. The United Methodist Church: 7.8 million members
3. The Church of God in Christ: 5.5 million members
4. National Baptist Convention: 5.0 million members
5. Evangelical Lutheran Church, U.S.A.: 4.5 million members
6. National Baptist Convention of America: 3.5 million members
7. Assemblies of God: 2.9 million members
8. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.): 2.8 million members
9. African Methodist Episcopal Church: 2.5 million members
10. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America: 2.5 million members
11. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS): 2.3 million members
12. The Episcopal Church: 2.0 million members
13. Churches of Christ: 1.6 million members
14. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World: 1.5 million members
15. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church: 1.4 million members
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/the-15-largest-protestant-denominations-in-the-united-states-92731/#s0eiZCd60ryXqjlK.99
I'm talking about the typical American christian church goers. I dont know under which category they fall but they are millions. Bottom line, religion is limiting in many ways and I see it all around me.
Robert do you feel like you have to defend christian faith? If so why?
To me defending a belief in itself is letting reality controlling the perspective.
Not trying to offend but I'm curios.
Quote from: funfire on August 18, 2016, 23:37:57
Robert do you feel like you have to defend christian faith? If so why?
To me defending a belief in itself is letting reality controlling the perspective.
Not trying to offend but I'm curios.
No. I do not.
I find the present popularity and proliferation of outright falsehood concerning Christianity to be a fascinating phenomenon.
I promulgate truth and refute falsehood.
I find the general reaction to such activity to be rather enlightening.
The desperation with which so many cling to bigotry and falsehood is quite the sight to behold.
Quote from: LightBeam on August 18, 2016, 23:27:06
I'm talking about the typical American christian church goers. I dont know under which category they fall but they are millions. Bottom line, religion is limiting in many ways and I see it all around me.
Yes, they are many millions in number.
And the ones who behave as you described are a distinct minority.
Religion can be very limiting for those who need limiting.
Religion is liberating and wondrous beyond words for those who are ready for that experience.
{there was an old saying, "money is the root of all evil" and it has been replaced in some circles with "religion is the root of all evil" -- both are wrong}
Quote from: RobertForsythe on August 19, 2016, 00:10:25
Yes, they are many millions in number.
And the ones who behave as you described are a distinct minority.
Religion can be very limiting for those who need limiting.
Religion is liberating and wondrous beyond words for those who are ready for that experience.
{there was an old saying, "money is the root of all evil" and it has been replaced in some circles with "religion is the root of all evil" -- both are wrong}
You need to do more research on that. Just go to christian forums, bring up the AP topic, tell them that Jesus is actually not a god and we dont need him to get to heaven, and you will see for yourself what the majority think. I would be surprised if any Christians would agree with that.
Quote from: LightBeam on August 19, 2016, 00:24:35
You need to do more research on that. Just go to christian forums, bring up the AP topic, tell them that Jesus is actually not a god and we dont need him to get to heaven, and you will see for yourself what the majority think. I would be surprised if any Christians would agree with that.
The issue was your claim, "they would have called a pastor to expel satan out of me LOL. So, this is what the majority [of Christians] think."
With respect to world Christianity this is a patently false claim.
If you go to a Church of Wazoo forum and say "Wazoo is bunk" ... yes, you will get a lot of replies to the contrary. How is that useful or meaningful at all? (or even relevant?)
If you want to amend you original claim to be "Southern Baptist Christians in the Deep South of the USA" I suspect no one would disagree with you... but then some might ask, "what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?"
EDIT; On the other hand, if you went among these Southern Baptist Bible Thumping types and said, "I have visions that come to me in my dreams..." you would likely find almost NONE of them would think to try and expel satan...
If you walk in and poke a sharp stick in their eye they probably would react in a negative way.
Quote from: RobertForsythe on August 19, 2016, 00:36:07
The issue was your claim, "they would have called a pastor to expel satan out of me LOL. So, this is what the majority [of Christians] think."
If you didn't get that was a joke I made in my head. But actually Christianity believes in exorcism anyway, so I dont understand your point. And I am from California not the deep south LOL. Do your research. You can not deny that every Christian beliefs Jesus is our lord and savior, the only son of God and only through him we can reach the heaven. This my friend is not true and this is a very limiting belief which lead to denial of AP experiences. Christians do not believe there are worlds between heaven and hell. So, if there are only heaven and hell and we cant pass to heaven without Jesus, then logically AP is not real to them. And if any of them believe otherwise, then they should not call themselves Christians.
Quote from: LightBeam on August 19, 2016, 00:51:53
If you didn't get that was a joke I made in my head. But actually Christianity believes in exorcism anyway, so I dont understand your point.
Nor do I understand your point...exorcism? what's that got to do with anything?
QuoteAnd I am from California not the deep south LOL. Do your research.
Actually, unlike you I have not only done my research but I have included it here in this thread.
QuoteYou can not deny that every Christian beliefs Jesus is our lord and savior, the only son of God and only through him we can reach the heaven.
I do not deny that.
QuoteThis my friend is not true and this is a very limiting belief which lead to denial of AP experiences. Christians do not believe there are worlds between heaven and hell. So, if there are only heaven and hell and we cant pass to heaven without Jesus, then logically AP is not real to them. And if any of them believe otherwise, then they should not call themselves Christians.
Actually it can be seen as TRUE in the Gnostic view. Do you know what Gnostic Christianity is?
IT is NOT a limiting belief (any more than the Christian haters Belief system)
IT does NOT deny AP experiences.
(WHAT?!) Over a BILLION Christians believe there are realms between heaven and hell
They all call themselves Christian. What gives you the right to deny them that freedom?
I think you really need to broaden your horizons a bit... there is a giant universe of Christianity that you clearly know NOTHING about.
Did you look at the link I gave above?
Did you investigate any of the saints that I pointed to?
Do you even want to learn more on this subject?
Quote from: RobertForsythe on August 19, 2016, 01:43:04
Over a BILLION Christians believe there are realms between heaven and hell
They all call themselves Christian.
Perhaps in a parallel dimension LOL
Quote from: LightBeam on August 19, 2016, 01:56:43
Perhaps in a parallel dimension LOL
Guess again.
Have you ever heard of Purgatory?
Or maybe the disputed realm called Limbo?
Quote from: RobertForsythe on August 19, 2016, 01:59:48
Have you ever heard of Purgatory?
Or maybe the disputed realm called Limbo?
"Purgatory (in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven." So, they will be afraid to AP because they will end up there LOL.
Yeah, not true either. I have not heard APers experience this. So, this is another false belief. Unless all of us are not sinners. But I am a sinner according to Christianity because I dont believe in Jesus and therefore I can never go to heaven. Guess what, I have gone to heavenly worlds many times.
And by the way, there is actually no such thing as Christian Gnosticism, because true Christianity and Gnosticism are mutually exclusive systems of belief. The principles of Gnosticism contradict what it means to be a Christian. Therefore, while some forms of Gnosticism may claim to be Christian, they are in fact decidedly non-Christian.
Quote from: LightBeam on August 19, 2016, 02:18:06
"Purgatory (in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven." So, they will be afraid to AP because they will end up there LOL.
The definition is true but your commentary is utterly false.
QuoteYeah, not true either. I have not heard APers experience this.
As I said, you appear to be hugely ignorant of a giant universe of Christianity out there. MANY APers have experienced this. Many, many APers throughout veritable AGES have experienced this.
QuoteSo, this is another false belief. Unless all of us are not sinners.
Wrong. Completely FALSE Logic.
Quote
And by the way, there is actually no such thing as Christian Gnosticism, because true Christianity and Gnosticism are mutually exclusive systems of belief.
Wait a minute... did you just say *true* Christianity?...
?
...?
Your statements are contradicting. I am done with this topic.
Quote from: LightBeam on August 19, 2016, 02:36:19
Your statements are contradicting. I am done with this topic.
Nothing I said was contradictory. You on the other hand, have made a stream of false statements. From your wrong comments about what "most" Christians would do upon hearing about an AP experience to what a majority of Christians believe about realms between heaven and hell, I have shown you to be very wrong.
If I had truly made any contradictory claims you could merely quote them and show the contradiction. But I didn't make any contradictory statements... so you won't be able to back up your false accusation.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/the_relative_playing_field-t46756.0.html
don't fight for something just to fight but help others and yourself to understand everyone's perspective.
I personally have an absolute disgust for the christian faith not the people. Being trapped for 16 years in that disillusion really gets to me.
of course no christian is going to have the same perspective of their religion because it is so distorted with information that people just pick and choose what is right and wrong. there are about 20 christian religions out there right now. The only thing they all get together on is that Jesus is there lord and savior that's pretty much it.
Robert you are defending a faith that hinders progress. trying to grow or learn from any religion will only get you so far in life and in death.
And what I mean by defend is that you are trying to defend your own perspective of the christian faith. By getting a wider perspective you can see what is right from wrong. I don't need research for the christian faith I have experience.
sorry if our perspectives offend you but you can grow from it if your willing. :-)
Moderator warning chill or topic will be locked down
Quote from: lucid dream lover on February 06, 2016, 04:40:04
I was just wondering? :?
There is only one thing that unifies the Christian faith and that is not simply a belief in Jesus Christ. It is a belief that he lived, shed his blood and died so we don't have to in order to reach the kingdom of God/Heaven.
Beyond that it's a waste of time to generalize Christians.
In some of the churches you have speaking in tongues, could that be channeling? You have prayer, could that be meditation? You have manifesting, could that be metaphysical? You have visitors from beyond our 3D world, could that be...
It is not fair or healthy to assume that the 'label' Christian defines an entire person or their entire belief system.
Quote from: funfire on August 19, 2016, 05:44:40
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/the_relative_playing_field-t46756.0.html
don't fight for something just to fight but help others and yourself to understand everyone's perspective.
Funfire, the issue here is not "perspective". The issue is people making false claims about Christianity. The issue is people talkin' trash about my family's faith. It really is pretty bad. I understand perfectly well what other people's 'perspective' is and I am fine with that. Okay, you don't like Christianity, fine, so don't go to their church. How hard is that?
What I don't get is how people get stuck in victim mode and go around whining and moaning, "Ohhhh, that terrible Church. I wasted an hour every Sunday listening to some ignoramus drone on about stupid stuff...". Geeez -- get over it. Show us some of that spiritual progress you are making lately and let go of your past and forgive and forget.
This claim that Christianity stifles growth is just plain false. The reality is that Spiritual Progress can be made very effectively within the rubric of many Christian sects. In the Catholic tradition the method of Centering Prayer as a meditative practice is second to none in building concentration and leading the Consciousness inward and developing a highly refined subtle awareness.
The time I spent among Mormons was enlightening. As a group, this culture instills a respect for others that is so very lacking among typical New Age type groups that get together and descend into a wallowing christian-bashing fest. I rarely heard malicious gossip spill from their Mormon disciplined lips. Some of their popular traditions like regular fasting and community service are very indicative of above average attainment in spiritual disciplines. They teach the rank and file to search within and learn to feel that "stirring in the bosom" that reveals the Guidance of the Spirit on a subtle level. These new age groups with their weekend workshops on developing psychic awareness have nothing over many traditional Christian practices.
QuoteI personally have an absolute disgust for the christian faith not the people. Being trapped for 16 years in that disillusion really gets to me.
of course no christian is going to have the same perspective of their religion because it is so distorted with information that people just pick and choose what is right and wrong. there are about 20 christian religions out there right now. The only thing they all get together on is that Jesus is there lord and savior that's pretty much it.
Perhaps you have heard the saying that "we see the world through the lens of our own consciousness". If you look at a religious tradition 2000 years old and see mostly the discord ... hmmm, perhaps that thought could serve as a contemplation seed to ponder in a quiet moment. Personally I see people who are trying to internalize exceedingly High Teachings like, "do unto other as you would have done unto you" and Love they neighbor as thyself". Given that over a billion people are in that population there is obviously a wide spectrum of degrees of success in internalizing these maxims.
QuoteRobert you are defending a faith that hinders progress. trying to grow or learn from any religion will only get you so far in life and in death.
And what I mean by defend is that you are trying to defend your own perspective of the christian faith. By getting a wider perspective you can see what is right from wrong. I don't need research for the christian faith I have experience.
sorry if our perspectives offend you but you can grow from it if your willing. :-)
Perspectives do not bother me. Falsehood and malicious gossip awaken my sense of justice and fairness. If you don't like Christianity don't go to their church. But if you want to spew falsehood and just go around trash talking an ancient faith and tradition, well... I hope you won't be offended if I step up and say, "that is a false claim". If someone says, "I don't like listening to an ignorant preacher on Sunday" -- *that* is perspective. I have no problem with that. But if someone says, "Catholics can't think for themselves and aren't allowed to disagree with Church Authority" -- *that* is outright falsehood. "Perspective" has nothing to do with it.
See the difference?
When you claim that I am "defending a faith that hinders progress" it means you do not understand the faith and perhaps you do not know what 'progress' is. Some of the most spiritually advanced souls I know practice the Ancient Catholic method of Centering Prayer as taught in the ancient teachings found in the "Cloud of Unknowing". The Catholic history is filled to overflowing with saints who made fantastic progress on the Spiritual Path. Show me another method that has produced a St. Francis or in more modern times a Padre Pio. In terms of OBE and AP show me a tradition or method that produces an APer that approaches the skill level of a Marilynn Hughes (devout Catholic).
I have brought up these points here multiple times but for some reason they are swept aside and completely ignored. It is difficult to continue clinging to ignorance and bigotry when you gain a little knowledge.
Let's try to remember that we're all friends here and nobody is trying to personally attack anyone. :)
Let's post with that in mind please. Thanks!
I think it only fair to make comment on any religion if you understand the concepts and beliefs within that religion.
An outright ' I hate them' is where wars have been created. This is mostly due to lack of knowledge and the saying ' a little knowledge is dangerous' speaks for itself.
I meet Roman Catholic and Muslim people who share their beliefs and teach each other the ways they live their life. The Christians I know are quite respectful of other religions as are the Jehovas Witnesses.
All of them work together in a pleasant environment and issues that hit the news are discussed mostly with disgust for the waste of life. The main issue is to love, a few will take parts of their 'book' and go overboard in a very negative way. These are shunned by their religious leaders as they are not following the core of the belief.
We all can live amongst each other if we take time to listen to the beliefs each religion offer. In some they are surprisingly similar. I'm not an expert but I LISTEN. This is all it takes.
Respect is earned this way.
There are reprehensible things to be found in the holy books of all religions. Some more than others, but if we are talking the Semitic / Abrahamic religions, you don't have to look very hard.
No one belonging to these religions could really follow all of the commandments of their own religion without being a monster. That goes without saying. So it is important to realize that every practitioner is in some manor of dissonance with them. Based on which verses they choose to follow, and which they choose to dismiss, you can actually learn about their personal values. People will take the parts of their faiths that resonate with them.
So while you can call the values of a certain group Christian, or Muslim, or Zoroasterian values, what it really comes down to is the values of their community or family being passed on to them, but being justified as those of their religious tradition.
That is part of why it doesn't help us to say "Christian values" without speaking about the geographic region in question. Are we talking about the Philippines or Alabama? I think if you consider what each group has common to it, the concept would make sense. One of these groups is more concerned with the social justice passages and the Sermon on the Mount, and one of them is more concerned with the Book of Revelations. Islam is much the same. At various times in its history, it has been both the most progressive, and the most regressive faith in the world, based solely on which of the Surahs and Hadiths were held in various readings. It can be both the religion of service, and the religion of war, depending on who is pulling verses.
It is important to realize that religion is at times an instrument of self-expression, I think.
Sorry if I caused an uproar feelsbadman. :oops:
Have a bad habit of trying to psychoanalyze people.
All 'sides' in this discussion have raised good and valid points.
There is a wide spectrum of what it means to "be christian", "be muslim", and even "be new age" or "be spiritual".
People are different, actually it is even down to an individual level. So for me it makes no sense when we make discussions based on a fixed set of assumption or even dogmatic statements saying "buddhists/muslims/christians believe/are this or that".
My parents are christians and what it all boils down to is that they go to church a few times in the year and put up a christmas tree on X-mas. That's all. :wink:
There are some very open churches or christian discussion groups, some more open(minded) some more dogmatic or orthodox. Let them be how they want to be as long as they don't proselityze too much or want to 'convert' or (if not possible) disrespect you.
Just an example, one of our former members here as a very experienced long-time projector was member of the Unity Church, which is still 'christian' to some degree since they also refer to the bible and Jesus.
http://www.unity.org/about-us/our-philosophy
They even did seminars with Tom Campbell (My Big Toe) who is a proponent of the digital universe theory. So I guess they are very 'open' to ideas of AP, new theories on the basis of reality and all that.
Of course they are just on the one end of the spectrum, still you could say they are christian.
In a book written by an orthodox priest he says Lucifer creates his own chemical reaction that is the light of an astral plane, and that it's best not to ever go there... which creates a question: if we all have an astral body by nature how can we keep ourselves from experiencing the astral , how can we escape what we already are!
Hi,
I am 65 years old and I was raised in a very strict Church of Christ environment.
My parents hit the roof once when we asked questions about witches. I was around 10 or so. My sister and I questioned the existence of witches because we had watched the Wizard of Oz. :-D After that time, our black and white TV was monitored and we were forbidden to discuss witches or anything else that was not christian geared because it might draw demons to our house. That was their belief. Our parents were so afraid and they were trying to instill that same fear in us as a method of control. It was not all their fault. It was our church and what the church believed and my parents were rigid in their beliefs that the church was the authority.
Needless to say, we learned to keep our thoughts to ourselves after that..
I quit going to church when I was around 15 when I saw how the church shunned one beautiful young 18 year old woman to get her to quit coming to our church.. As did my sister. We were instructed to never speak to her and the congregation 'literally turned their backs to her' when she approached them for fellowship. I have never forgotten her and have wondered what became of her after being treated so horribly by alledged christians. When I was around 40, I asked my mother if she remembered so and so. She said they were wrong to do that.
I'm not going into a lot of details here but I'll say 'christianity' and 'spirituality' are two entirely different subjects. Just because someone is christian does not mean someone is spiritual or even a good person. Goodness comes from within and they were rotten to the core.
Maybe other dominations of churches feel different, but also maybe not all churches of christ feel the way mine did way back when. This was 50 years ago. Christians believe different things based on the beliefs of the parent church. You can't lump all christians in one boat. Beliefs are too varied.
At this point in my own life, I'm not sure I even believe in an all omniscience God. We are all on a very personal journey of learning and this is just where my journey has led me. Always keep an open mind is my golden rule.
That is right, Blossom, always keep an open mind. We should be seekers, not followers.