Why?

[Lighthouse]

Adam,

I don't speak man but I'll try here to communicate some meaning to you [].

I don't think belief in God is necessary for personal growth to occour.  I believe (there goes that word again) that you are correct in stating that the belief system holds one back from growing.  I think that God can be summed up like this.

God = Energy (the stuff of everything, EVERYTHING in the Universe.)

It is not necessary to believe in energy in order to benefit from its properties.  We would not have light, electricity, the movement of the planets, affection, radio, thoughts, bodies, the ocean, the earth, anything without energy.  

One does not need to believe in the thing called cell phone in order to enjoy the benefits of talking to your mother who lives several hundred (or thousand) miles away. Think about it, even the most inanimate objects, take rocks for example are bursting with energy.  If you were a molecule that lived inside a rock, from your perspective, things would be bzzing around you and moving all over the place, you would not see your environment as inanimate, you would see the rock as buzzing with energy, the molecules are just more dense than those molecules in your body... all of it different vibrations of energy.

Alas, this too is a Belief... so I'm most likely still holding myself back.

So, the natural conclusion I draw from this is that if God=Energy and we we are part of that energy, part of what makes up everything, we must also all be made up of God (but then I cross the threshold into theology.)

Love,
Kerri

[Rastus]

A lot of religions got a little bit right.  Some religions got a lot right.  Several pretty much have it all right, but they really aren't religions, more like ways of life.

So how does religion hold you back.  I'll pick on the Catholics.  That religion has been re-written so many times by men (and women) in power for the express purpose of contolling peole, it's forgotten what it is all about.  Well, maybe not.  Organised religion is about controlling people, not about God.  You can worship God without outside help, you do it in your heart and deeds, not a stone edifice.

Hell?  Can't have a Heaven without a Hell, where's the dis-incentive?  Carrot and no stick []

[kalratri]

I believe Buddhism provides a nice framework on how to work with ANY religion, particularly the eightfold path which includes RIGHT UNDERSTANDING as well as the morals needed to hopefully not fall to the dark side (although ofcourse Buddhism too had it's share of evil power hungry monks, but than the Dhammapada states clearly that a monk who simply wears a robe and does not practice is no follower of the way.)

Most religions are full of "STUFF", too many institutions and texts for the average person to make sense out of and the priests to abuse, and none provide any framework on where to begin, except for Buddhism which states right from the outset, be nice, use your reason, and meditate hard because only you can free yourself.

[Anonymous]

lighthouse

Well then Y does everyone say god instead of chi?
And by the by those funky symbols were uncomprehendable.
I couldnt understand a bit of it!!!![]

Rastus

I didnt say I dont think there is a hell.

Kalrati

Ill have to look into Buddihism.

Ill get back to you all after I check Buddism out.
Sincerely
Adam Grazewski

[Lighthouse]

Why not call it Energy instead of Chi?  Because people want to name it.  God has many names.

Kerri

[DreamWeaver]

I am putting my 2 cents in whether it helps,hinders,or makes no diffrence..[]

I myself am not practicing any form of religion especially not a organized one.
My belief system is kind of an eclectic mix of diffrent religions.
I also don't believe in needing to go to a church or synaguge or anything like that to practice or show your beliefs..
If you pray God is everywhere right? so can hear you just as well @ home than in a church.
I have a very open mind a believe most anthing is possible..maybe some might call it sort of naive..but that is how I feel.That is how I am.I have a stong mind and spirit also.

[Rastus]

But there is no hell.  Hell is a self made prison of your own design, and I don't believe in it at all.  That would infer I don't believe in heavan, and the classical heaven of scriptures I definately don't beleive in.  Afterlife?  Nope, I mean you don't really die, so afterlife is incorrect usage, now isn't it?  God?  or GOD?  or do an infinite amount of God's make up GOD?

Or have I confused you, sorry [:I]

I most definitely believe I have God in me!

[Anonymous]

Very true
so in that case Y dont we not call it anything?

[DreamWeaver]

I beleive in Reincarnation & Karma(what goes around comes around)
Thats whay I try and treat others w/respect and kindness (that is of course if they show it to me in return).

anyone believe in Reincarnation as well?

[Anonymous]

I would have to agree with you Rastus
And you did confuse me a bit
but I got the general meaning

[Anonymous]

I do beleive in recarnation as RAtsus pointed out we dont really die

[James S]

Burningriver,

Suggest you find a copy of Conversations With God, book 1 or 2.
It will shed an amazing amount of light on what you have just asked here.

Regards,
James.

[0]

Thought I would approach with my own opinion on this.

First, when calling anything one or the other, whether it is God, Chi, Buddha, Energy, universe, etc, we must remember that many beliefs evolved over centuries and centuries in different regions of the earth. Many regions were hidden away or refused outsiders, thusly the belief structure evolved in its own way everywhere differently.
For example when christianity was brought to Japan around the 1860's, the country was in majority focused in on Buddhism which had come from China and Korea many many years before that.

When the Christians and Japanese did come together, imagine the differences. Christians coming from a new world, believing the Japanese to be unredeemable heretics, and the Japanese seeing these influecing outsiders bringing in devout believers of an angry God changing traditional and beautiful(though harsh for many)ways of life.
Needless to say over the years both beliefs have influenced each other in many ways.


Second I do think that a belief system does hold one back spiritually, though I think that only if that belief system is one of an impersonal nature can such a thing occur. Such as being raised into strict christianity or catholicism. No room for you to grow or evolve your own understanding, and if you do, you are seen as a blasphemer or heretic or being driven by satan, blah blah.

Third, most people need these definitions or different labels of the meaning or substance behind God/devil, heaven/hell, buddha/karmic retribution, and so on for many reasons.
Humans as a whole seem to have a need to label eveything that has meaning, and to label these specifically, gives almost a conclusive theme to them. More substance if you will. An actual meaning behind our existence, though many existentialists will argue it is the question of why we strive to search for these answers, rather than the search itself that is important.

So basically, its up to the individual and what they have come from. Though many people do need to become more aware, there are those I believe who cannot. They are trapped in their own plot of dirt, digging at soil that has been unearthed hundreds of years and then reburied over and over and over....

There are some people even, in my own opinion, who should not try and evolve from their own awareness. I think just as many of us react and conform from each other, there are those people needed who are blind, or stuck in repetition of tradition so as to open others eyes. We need experience and example in order to grow.
Its a sad thing I think to believe that maybe, but until the world has an easier time congregating to the same music in the same understanding of all things, the world will be what it is.

[Anonymous]

Ok Now following my own advice about not having a belief
Thats a little off.....  maybe .....A beleif is basiccly us saying this is this and that is that, so EVERYTHING is a belief which means in order to not have a beleif you cant beleive in ANYTHING.
You cant beleive in heaven hell god the devil today tommorow yesterday
The chair your sitting on or what youre looking at.
So you literally can not beleive in anything (as stated above).
Any opinions?(probably)

[Rastus]

If you didn't beleive in anything, you'd cease to exist!

And there are a lot of things I don't believe, I know.

And when you say stop believing in god, you mean your ego.  Your soul can't forget, not in it's current state.  That doesn't mean some don't, sadly, but that's what rescue work is all about.

[Aileron]

burning, I think your bordering on existentialism there.

Im thinking Dogma (the movie)might be a good example of what you are leaning towards.
Beliefs are dangerous, they can lead to a lot of things, as well as beautiful things thus I think beliefs might be worth the risk....but you can also go with an idea of what you feel is right.

A belief though, as many might see it being set in stone, is really only such as a mass communicator of faith. That is set in stone.
When you as a person has a belief, you can change that any time you want to. WHen you realize your belief is misunderstood, faulty, unfinished, too colorful, not colorful enough. Those things are okay. You are a person are allowed, privilaged to obtain any belief you want, and as a person, have the right, to change it any time you deem fit.

Dont set yourself in stone, thats what many in organized religions do, and thats what is dangerous.

[aryanknight666]

Exactly. Everyone has a beleif system.
As for God, well, if you are talking about an entity, a universal intellect or life force disconnected to any diety or religious figure devised by man, I've already talked about this, in a new thread I created in spiritual development topic.

[Gandalf]

I don't think there is any point about debating about whether 'belief' holds you back, as EVERYTHING is belief of one kind of another, even science, so it is pointless to debate about not having belief. I always laugh when scientists say they base their world view on facts not belief... yeah right!

I think the more accurate question is: does DOGMATIC belief hold you back?

ie religious authority, entrenched in a particular society, which in itself has the full force of peer pressure to enforce upon individuals who stray from the party line.
I think of strict islamic societies, or strict christian ones like in some catholic societies or the bible belt in America which is full of fundamentalist nuts.

Just to digress for a moment to pick up on an example someone made earlier, who decided to pick on catholicism as one example of a dogmatic religion:
While I see that you are only using it as an example, i thought i'd point out how often I come across this line, esp from american posters, who curiously do not apply the same criteria to branches of their own protestant chirstianity, even although in some areas, like the bible belt for example, are quite mad in their own right, however they always escape criticism.

Equally strange is that this form of sectarianism is so ingrained in your society that you don't even realise it.
For example, you make distinctions between 'christian religion' and 'catholic religion' as if somehow catholics are not a branch of chistianity.
While you can say this is just semantics, it is actualy an example of how insidious sectarianism is, it creeps into the language without people even realising it.

I am not chistian in any sense, but from an outsiders viewpoint I can assure you that we view all branches of chistianisty, ie protestantism, catholicicm, orthodox and all their sub-groups as the various factions of *christian religion*.
However, I'm guessing that this viewpoint is somewhat distorted when viewed from the inside and one's own loyalty to the 'true' sect.

Back to the point, about dogmatics, I would say that when you are forced into towing party lines, then this can hold you back, however people still find ways round it, and some view it as a challenge, whether its going against the local caliph, the local priest or your bible thumping parents, people DO find way out if they want to, however it all depends on what you want.
Some people find comfort in established religon and others who are not realy spiritually orientated at all, find that a weekly dose of religion gives them their religious fix and covers the 'religion angle' as far as they are concerned. They can then feel self rightious towards people they don't agree with; this happens all the time and is tiresome!

Burning River_
You need to realise that a statement like 'do you believe in god' is actually a very sweeping statement/question, since there are MANY conception of what 'god' actually IS, some of which vary greatly.

Also I would say to you that belief in god does NOT equal belief in christianity or the bible, although for those people who have never been exposed to another belief system (sad though that sounds) this conception is hard to understand.
I would ask which god? what do you mean by 'god'?

As for me, do I believe in god?
answer: yes.
Does that mean I accept the christian conception of god and the bible?
absolutly not. let me explain:

I am of more pantheist views and my concept of 'god' is that of 'the all'. 'god' is everything, including us; and we are in turn 'god'. Brahmann.. the all. I don't like using the term 'god' as for me it brings up to many negative connotations of middle-eastern religion (judaism, christianity and islam) of a dominating, male orientated, overlord creator figure who is seperate from his creation and looks down upon it like some roman emperor.

well, that's my two euros worth, apologies for those who have been bored by my rant, i do tend to go on!

Regards,
Douglas

[James S]

No, please...rant on Douglass.

I always enjoy reading your posts. You have a way of looking at things that is open minded but well grounded.

Regards,
James.

[Anonymous]

Someone had once told me that your beleif system usually holds you back from spiritual growing.
Such as opening your mind to other beings or other planes.
So if they can hold you back Then Why does Everyone have a view on if there is a god or if there is a devil?
We should all just keep our minds open and we will be fine.
Its not like the minute you stop beleiving in god The world is going to go up in flames(pardon the pun).
Btw I do believe there is a after life.
I g2g but Ill post more on this later.

Sincerely
Adam Grazewski[]