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Author Topic: Commentary on Franks 2nd Newsletter  (Read 6040 times)
Hans Solo
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« on: June 23, 2005, 19:51:58 »

First, I am just taking a fun stab at Frank here, and its nothing personal.  Plus some of you kiddies out there may learn something. To start off with here is a segment of Franks newsletter:

Quote
Speaking about payment, I have been looking into methods of payment
for the Virtual Classroom subscriptions, which will need to be via
the usual credit or debit cards, of course. I have looked into
various services but all are extremely expensive in terms of the
commissions they charge for this kind of "online" business as they
see it. It would appear that if you live in the USA then getting
online Merchant Accounts is much easier. I was accepted by one
company in France where I live but they wanted a hefty 10%
commission plus 1.5 euro per transaction! This is just daft in my
view. With 20 people in the class each paying 16 Euro a week for
their teaching I would be paying around 140 euro a month in
transaction fees alone! This may not sound a lot of money to
perhaps many people, but as I said in the last newsletter, I live a
very frugal life and 140 Euro keeps me in pasta for about 8 months!

Anyhow, after doing a bit of digging I discovered that PayPal's
fees are quite reasonable for this kind of thing, so they are the
payment service I will be using. To be able to accept credit and
debit cards directly I need to open a business Merchant Account
with PayPal and for that I will need to open a basic business bank
account together with a Visa card so I can eventually "verify" the
new PayPal account and get it all up and running properly. All this
form-filling, financial stuff, registering new businesses, and all
that jazz is a bit over my head. So after going around in circles
the past couple of weeks, I have decided to place the whole thing
in the very capable hands of a total financial wizard and great
friend of mine, Jim Ashley, who shall be dealing with all the
financial side of things on my behalf. I don't want to start
getting embroiled in accounting and things like that. I want to
concentrate 100% of my time advising people on what I feel is the
best way forward in terms of their development. So Jim will be
dealing with the PayPal, financial and accounts side of things from
the UK.

This has taken a little while to organise but everything will be
ready in about a week to ten days. Like I say, I live a very frugal
life and I'm not really part of the capitalist machine, as it were.
I don't have lines of credit and a wallet full of credit cards,
loans and all that jazz. But Jim will soon have it all sorted and
we'll be up and running in no time. Problem is, living in France as
I do, the business bureaucracy in France is horrendous. I speak
French good enough to make myself understood from day to day, but
nowhere near good enough to understand the intricacies of French
business legalities and procedures. Being English I have the right
to set up the new business in England where everything is much more
understandable, as it is a liberal market economy like the USA.
Regulations tend to be fairly straightforward, so that's why I have
decided to fiscally locate the financial side of things in the UK.



Now that you have it in context, lets take it a step at a time and learn something about this EVIL CAPITALIST MACHINE!

Quote
It would appear that if you live in the USA then getting
online Merchant Accounts is much easier. I was accepted by one
company in France where I live but they wanted a hefty 10%
commission plus 1.5 euro per transaction


It is much easier in the USA because of COMPETITION.  You see, competition lowers prices and increases the quality of service, so it is natural for commission fees to be lower because banks are scrambling to get business.  France is more socialist, so therefore the State limits competition and prices rise for business, which pass that on to consumers, and this limits the growth in the economy hurting everybody.  Ever wonder why France and Germany have 10% + unemployment?  They usually do this in the form of REGULATION (which you discuss later).  All regulation does is protect the established businesses from start ups there by decreasing competition, in effect giving established businesses semi monopoly privileges.

So, what does Frank do?  He chooses Paypal, the new online form of completion to banks.  Frank choose Paypal because of the savings benefit for his business/him.  Good job Frank, that was a great capitalist decision!  What was the detriment?  You see in a highly competitive market some win and some lose, so who lost?  The banks in France, and France's economy, because they could not compete.  Why couldn't they compete?  They are not allowed to compete due to GOVERNMENT socialist regulation.  Money moves, but in this case France's economy lost due to bad politics.

Quote
I don't have lines of credit and a wallet full of credit cards,
loans and all that jazz. But Jim will soon have it all sorted and
we'll be up and running in no time. Problem is, living in France as
I do, the business bureaucracy in France is horrendous. I speak
French good enough to make myself understood from day to day, but
nowhere near good enough to understand the intricacies of French
business legalities and procedures


This is along the same point as above.  As government gets bigger, like socialist France, bureaucracy gets bigger.  As Bureaucracy gets bigger the cost to the citizens dramatically rise.  Also, big established business loves this due to the fact that every piece of red tape put up protects them from start ups that could compete with them, and lower cost (profit margins) to consumers.  Most people just throw up their hands because the cost of starting a new business will wipe out any profit they could hope to gain in the immediate future.  Thus, economies stagnate.

Quote
Being English I have the right to set up the new business in England where everything is much more understandable, as it is a liberal market economy like the USA. Regulations tend to be fairly straightforward, so that's why I have decided to fiscally locate the financial side of things in the UK  


However, this is one capitalist alternative, and that is incorporate or start a business in a place that is business friendly and has less red tape.  Ever wonder why so many businesses are incorporated in the small island of Bermuda?  This is just a natural action because the flow of money, like energy current, takes the path of least resistance.   What did Frank do? DING DING DING! That's right, took the proper, and capitalistic, way around this barrier and incorporated in the UK where it is easier.  Believe me, even if you understood the language better you would have still located in the UK due to the cost, and time, of setting up a business in France. (I could have done it better, but whatever)  Don't blame the companies for incorporating overseas, blame your GOVERNMENT!


Quote
Like I say, I live a very frugal life and I'm not really part of the capitalist machine, as it were


Now you are, and thank God! (or focus 4?)  If you hadn't taken the capitalistic, and proper, way of setting up your business WE ALL would suffer.  You lowered prices for people who will be using your service and ensured the probability of your business staying around longer.  What is the alternative?  Pay more to get your business started, so we can pay more to use it, in order to support sniveling, do nothing, GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS! NO THANKS!

Quote
liberal market economy like the USA


HA HA HA!  Still had to laugh at this.  When USA rose to power it was due to the free market.  However, now it is NO SUCH THING!  Big business lobbies for new regulation in order to eliminate competition, and politicians love to stay in power=Big oppressive government.  Not as big as our counterparts in France, but getting there.  

"Government is force, it is like fire, a dangerous servant, and a frightening master"  George Washington

Long live Frank, our beloved Capitalist!! cheesy

Han

PS.  Socialist are like mystics, they live in a dream world!
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Hans Solo
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2005, 20:54:53 »

Interesting discussion on regulation (sounds boring, but is not)

mms://www.harrybrowne.org/harrybrowne/04-01-03a.mp3

mms://www.harrybrowne.org/harrybrowne/04-01-03b.mp3
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2005, 20:54:53 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2005, 15:58:41 »

Frank seems to be really against mystics,  i agree with him that its more of a case of exploring individually, and scientifically-  but he makes out like ALL mystics are conmen and frauds.
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Hans Solo
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2005, 17:56:56 »

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PS. Socialist are like mystics, they live in a dream world!


All I was saying here was that mystics base alot of their theory around Focus 2 experiences.  It is kind of a self fulfilling theory because if others go to focus 2 with these preconceived notions then they will be confirmed in Focus 2.  So these theories are kind of circular in nature.

Han
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2005, 04:31:10 »

You mean, according to Frank, mystics base a lot of their theory around focus 2 experiences. Or if Frank now the arbiter of what is real and what is not?
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Hans Solo
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2005, 15:24:09 »

In my experiences in Focus 2, or the "Astral", I have confirmed what Frank has said.  Since your name is MJ-12 I bet you believe in Aliens and what New Agers have said about them residing in the Astral.  Well, I have fought the "Reptilians" in Focus 2, only to wake up and remember that I had listened to Coast to Coast Am that day and some nut was talking about them.  Focus 2 is where thoughts=action, and any preconceived notions will manifest.

Also, most alien abductions are Focus 2 experiences.

Han
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2005, 19:41:50 »

Huh??

Since my handle is MJ-12, I must believe in all sorts of stuff?

bzzzzt, sorry wrong answer. I know it must be easy to categorize huge sections of people as "focus 2 deluded" but life's not so simple.

You have personal experience validating Frank's theories? Great. Good for you.

I don't. In fact, my personal experience leads me in a different direction. However, I don't arbitrarily declare my viewpoint as "The Truth" as I've seen on here. Now if you're done preaching perhaps you can tell me exactly how all these mystics are wrong and deluded, because all I see is the same old arbitary "I'm right, your wrong; my personal experience is genuine, your personal experience is illusion."

MJ
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James S
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2005, 03:12:42 »

Yes, I'd like to hear why mystics are wrong and deluded too.

What do you class as a mystic anyway? I find the term to be a bit ambiguous.

Robert Bruce calls himself a mystic, and I doub't anyone here would be in a position to question his experiences with the astral

Psychics and mediums? We generally don't bother with the astral. There's more than enough spirit activity, spiritual experiences and lessons here in this world to deal with. When you're a medium the spirits come to you readily enough, you don't have to try going to them.

James.
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Hans Solo
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2005, 03:35:56 »

These posts have been a LITTLE off my original topic, but here goes.

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Robert Bruce calls himself a mystic, and I doub't anyone here would be in a position to question his experiences with the astral


I don't question his experiences, I question his interpretations.  First, have you read his Psychic self defense book.  What a load of Cr*p!  That book set my progress back probably a half a year.  RB believes that in the "Astral" there are NEGS and these "creatures" are demons, so in order to combat them you need to do all sorts of wild Sh*t.  My progress has gone into hyper drive while studying Franks Phasing Model, and now that I have been to the "Astral", Focus 2, and have confirmed that I can literally have these beings manifest just by thinking of them.  I have no doubt that RB is a developed projector, however I think that mystical dogma has heavily influenced his belief structure.  It is a kin to trying to tell a devout Christian that the Earth is older than 5000 years old!

I think of mystics as people who clutch on to the old dogma of Astral Projection.  Saying prayers to arch angels,  7 layers each with 7 layers, etc, etc.

I do have respect for there early work, circa 1000 BC-1400 AD, which we have built upon.  However, as today's technology was yesterdays magic, so it will be with AP.  The truth will come out as soon as enough unencumbered minds are put to the task.


Han

PS.  Many don't want this area to become unmystical, because that wouldn't be as "sexy"
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2005, 03:58:58 »

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Hans Solo
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2005, 04:22:43 »

Quote
Also, do you really think that people are trying to make things here unmusical


Damn!  Foiled by the spell check again! Drats! cheesy

Quote
Another great example of imprecise use of language fostering anxiety and strife where none is necessary. Personally, I’ve always like the following definition of a mystic: an ordinary person living life in an extraordinary way. I wish I could remember who said that – I think it’s dynamite stuff


I couldn't agree more.  I just don't like Dogma that is attached to anything, and I think most of us could agree that science also has quite a bit of dogma.  
The greatest discoveries are made by individuals discontent with the status quo, and who seek the truth.

Quote
Han – loved your first post. I imagined you seeing your latest paycheck and seeing all the taxes out that will never serve you or any purpose you choose! Of course, that would just be me projecting, but I loved the post anyway


You were only projecting the truth.  I agree with Throu when he said "That Government that governs least, governs best".

Han
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2005, 07:49:30 »

James S:

Robert Bruce is clearly on record as saying that when it comes to the "Astral" side of things he relied heavily on Eastern esoteric thinking. His expertise is "energy work" and "real-time zone". This is obvious from anyone reading Astral Dynamics. For someone into that kind of thing, his book is perhaps the definitive work, no doubt about it. It is just that none of this is actually necessary to learn about the wider reality.

A bricklayer is not an architect.

For the record, the real-time zone is actually the physical. In that respect I’m not sure why he called it “Astral” Dynamics but Robert appears to think the area of consciousness he calls the “RTZ” is the “first astral plane” from the physical. An easy mistake to make I suppose as I myself used to think in terms of those belief constructs until I widened my awareness. But, then again, I don’t have a publisher to pamper to and fifty luxury seminar places to fill at 1,400 US dollars a shot every however months or so.

For the record also, I have actually checked out much of what RB reports in his area of expertise and it's great. Energy-work is weird and whacky. It gives sensation after sensation. But none of it is strictly necessary at the end of the day. Creating an "energy body" is just a belief construct and I have projected into the RTZ as a point of consciousness. Once I created a "silver chord" but I made it translucent gold with a red lining. Dead sexy it was too. Don't know why these mystics would want to restrict a person's creativity. It’s probably a result of them still living in the Dark Ages.

As for the rest, Robert Bruce introduces his "Alice in Wonderland" effect. You go to this miraculous place where thoughts actually come to life, really, they do... WOW... No kidding! Really, your thoughts actually come to life??? In maybe a thousand years (perhaps) the mystics will actually start asking WHY your own thoughts come to life in this (to them) seemingly miraculous place. Ha ha ha...

In my work, I present people with a "map" of the Wider Reality. I surely cannot be the only person in the world presenting the same map.

I have already said a number of times that I happened to scan through a number of teachings on Judaism and I was amazed. Amidst all the religious and mystical mumbo jumbo, it would appear that the original people who wrote those works many thousands of years ago were explaining a model of consciousness very similar to my own that took me over 20 years to realise from my own trial and error. This was a very humbling realisation that stimulated me into looking into a number of other works, and I am truly amazed at what I see.

There are actually a number of other very basic religions that spell out the same. Okay, we call them "religions" now but, thousands of years ago, when they were first broadcasting those teachings, then they were not religions. That "religious mistake" came later on with mysticism and spirituality. The latter two are just belief constructs that make a person feel good and superior to the rest of us (ego tripping nonsense in my view).

It would appear that for the past couple of thousand years or so we have gone through a mystical and religious phase that has sent us right off track.

In that vein, the New-Age religionists of today would have us going to work in manure-powered cars and sucking crystals for breakfast. It is high time all the rot was halted. It is high time the mystics were stopped in their tracks and either we revert to either the original or the contemporary teachings about the Wider Reality. Because what has happened in “the middle” is not worth a bean. Just ego-tripping nonsense about individuals wanting to feel superior.

Yours,
Frank
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2005, 01:56:08 »

Hans,

For the record I'm not into the whole psychic defence thing either. I do practice regular cleansing of the house, and do work with levels of protection as part of “safe Mediumship”, but that's because both my wife and I are reiki healers, and when we have someone come into our place for healing, we don't want any emotional / energistic garbage being left behind. Beyond that, I get the idea that the more people feel they have something to defend themselves against, the more that something is going to be manifest in their lives, as their efforts are coming from a place of fear.

Interesting you mention about all the business with angels, archangels, all the levels & whatnot. I get a couple of angels come to me on a  fairly regular basis, my wife has regular dealings with an archangel, and I recently had an opportunity to have conversation with a seraphim who was present with another person during one psychic circle get together.
 
The energies of these beings are simply magnificent, and their presence is awesome! But a simple fact is we're all made of the same "spirit stuff". All spirits have equal value. I found this out for myself when speaking with the seraphim, one of the supposedly highest orders of angelic beings. It seems that they don't make the classifications about themselves that we do. They see themselves more as just having different jobs to do, and again, they don't segregate themselves into “blue collar, white collar” type categories. The angelic hierarchies appear to be yet another human construct through limited understandings.

OK, bit of a tangent, but with a point - we all have differing experiences, and they are valid to the individual, especially in terms of their own progress and own learning.

Frank,
You may be interested to know that my own success in astral experiences came through learning about Monroe’s phasing methods. That worked for me much better than any other. I’ve got a copy of Astral Dynamics, and have read right through it. The NEW stuff works very well for me, but then, for years before reading NEW, I’d been practicing Yoga / eastern based meditations, so it all fell nicely into place. The rest of Astral Dynamics, just doesn’t really work for me. There’s some good info in it, but it’s not my gig. You’re right – RB’s methods are steeped in eastern philosophies, and I guess they work well for him

As to the energy body stuff, well, I see it as a horses for courses thing. You don’t require work with the energy body for your experiences. I see what you do as more an alteration or expansion of consciousness. For me, working with reiki and crystal healing, methods that have for many years have proven to be very effective healing techniques, knowledge of and working with the energy body is essential.

Working as a medium and healer, I need to stay in this world, so I explore more of what spirit activity comes to us here in the physical world. Working with the “higher vibrational” energies in your own body is also very helpful when working to open your senses up to the “higher energy” beings that are around us.

What I am seeing through these conversations is more of a need to maybe not completely dismiss religious and new-age ideas, as there is very good information to be found in each belief system, but to pick and choose and put them to work for you. Discover your own path, discover your own truths. Then you will start to see a pattern emerge that ties many of the different philosophies into something we can call a common reality.

I think you are already doing this Frank, from what you’ve mentioned of the studies you’ve made so far. What I find disheartening is a dismissal of other beliefs that may also contain validity. Again, it’s a horses for courses thing. Your own path will lead you in directions that others may not understand, and so the reverse will also be true.

I always remember one of your most useful pieces of advice Frank – explore with a attitude of mild curiosity, but set no expectations. I think this is valid for any spiritual path. I tend to keep an attitude of open scepticism when dealing with new spiritual concepts. I feel the need to prove things for myself, discover the hows and whys behind spiritual concepts not just take someone else’s word about it.

That’s what I’d say to anyone here – don’t take our word for it, no matter how well informed we may seem. Go out there, put the time in and do it for yourself. It’s the only way you’ll find what works for you, and the only way you’ll find the common threads of what this amazing universe we’re in is really all about, and what is the product of someone’s poorly grounded imagination.

Blessings,
James.
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2005, 09:28:54 »

Hans Solo

Competition without regulation = exploitation

Is it so hard to understand this?
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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2005, 16:33:02 »

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Competition without regulation = exploitation


btw, I use caps not as yelling, but as particular points of interest that are integral to the discussion.  So sorry if it looks like I am yelling, i am not.

How can you be exploited in a free market?  ONLY government points guns at you in order to make you do something against your will.

In a free market companies can only EARN wealth by providing a valuable product or service.  You see, the market is made up of VOLUNTARY transactions.  The customer sees the product as more valuable than the money he/she has in her pocket.  The business, on the other hand, sees the money as more valuable.  Thus, a mutually beneficial exchange is taking place.  Where is the explotation?  

Ohh, you may mean the workers right?  First of all the company owns that job NOT the employee, so they can offer any thing they want for that job in terms of compensation.  The worker can CHOOSE to accept that proposal or not.  If the company decides to pay the employee less than he/she is worth, you can BET the competition is going to offer more.  I get calls all the time AT WORK from head hunters offering me opportunities for other jobs.  In a highly competitive market place unemployment is virtually Nil and competition among companies raises the employee wages.

On the flip side, lets take a look at Germany.  I was just riding to work today and listening to BBC radio about Germany's unemployment Woes cry .  12% unemployment and rising, business moving offshore, and hiring is at 0%. Why is this you ask?  Well, a little while back Germany enacted legislation that said "Employers CAN NOT fire employees".  HOW AWESOME, Right?  WRONG!!  Now employee productivity is in the toilet and companies WILL NOT hire at any cost.  They don't have any competition because of government subsidies to large companies and regulations against new companies even competing with these companies.  So, there is no one else to create jobs.

This is just the mantra of know nothing socialist who haven't read a chapter in economics.  

Quote
Is it so hard to understand this


I find it difficult to wrap my head around unlogical arguements

Nothing personal,

Han
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« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2005, 17:22:54 »

You talk about theorie, things always work in theorie but do they work in reality? I don't know what you consider to be the ultimate free market but I guess US- market is definitely less regulated then the Swiss market. so, following your argument the employees in US should have a better life then the ones in Switzerland. Do they? What procentage of People in US earns more then 3000$? compare that to Switzerland.........I do not know it but I would be surprised if the average US citizens earns more then  the Swiss.

Also your argument that nobody has to work in a job he doesn't like is completly shallow.  What if you have 3 Kids are single parent and the only job you find is working for Burgerking? open 24 hours a day? you can life in that world I do not want to.

People are greedy and money = power, therefore the wealthy people will always be tempted to exploit the poor if no regulations are having the force of law.

Germany, I do not know what their problem is but I'm sure there are other explanations then the one you provide.
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« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2005, 17:30:17 »

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You talk about theorie, things always work in theorie but do they work in reality?


EVERY single day the "theory" of economics is verified (not new school political economics however).  Time and time again.  Economics IS reality.  The US became the greatest nation on earth due to these principles, but now socialist and fascist are deteriorating this great nation in both social and economic capacities.


I just wish the United States would follow the Constitution and be a Neutral country like Switzerland.

"War is the health of the State (government)"--Thats why governments love to use it.

Quote
Also your argument that nobody has to work in a job he doesn't like is completly shallow. What if you have 3 Kids are single parent and the only job you find is working for Burgerking? open 24 hours a day? you can life in that world I do not want to


Why does she have 3 kids if she can't support them?  The reason in America is due to the Social Welfare System.  They are rewarded for having children, also if there were NO GOVERNMENT safety net then people would be more conservative in thier social life.  They would finally realize that actions have consequences.  

Another point, in America we have TONS of charitable organizations that would fill this need.  We are one of THE most generous nation on earth, http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2003/10/remittance_fact.html, and helping others is what makes us human.  When money goes to the Government welfare system only 15% actually gets to the people who need it, and the rest is squanderd by ineffecient government.  It has been shown that 33% of US welfare benefits are fraudulent.  On the flip side, private charities give 75-85% of the money they recieve to the participants.  Usually they dont JUST GIVE the money to these people either, the participants have to SHOW they are trying to help themselves out of their situation.  Every hear the pharase "Give a person a fish and it will feed him for one meal, teach that person to fish and he will never again go hungry"  

Where does the family fit in with this picture.  In recent times the family has been deteriorating because people look to the Government to solve their problem, and rarely turn to their own flesh and blood.  Likewise, the family instead of helping them referrs them to the Many government programs they can use/exploit.  And we all know how those government programs where funded, right?  Thats right, sticking a gun to my head in order to pay for their ineffecient stupid programs.  Thats not compassion, thats theft at a point of a gun.

Agree to disagree,  that is also part of being a human.  however, I wish one day people wouldn't have to point guns at one another in order to coerce them into following their path.

Quote
I don't know what you consider to be the ultimate free market but I guess US- market is definitely less regulated then the Swiss market. so, following your argument the employees in US should have a better life then the ones in Switzerland. Do they? What procentage of People in US earns more then 3000$? compare that to Switzerland.........I do not know it but I would be surprised if the average US citizens earns more then the Swiss.


Actually, Switzerland and the United States are tied for 12th freest economy in the world.  Luxembourg, your neighbor, is the 3rd freest economy in the world and has the highest GDP per capita in the world.

Data found at:  http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm

Government is force,
Han
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Tombo
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2005, 21:11:40 »

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Hans Solo

Competition without regulation = exploitation

Is it so hard to understand this?


Ok Hans I do agree with some you say, but the above wasn't just reffering to employees. What about eviromental issues? I think you should make a trip to the rain forest and then you will see that economy without regulation = exploitation is a fact. clean water and air are non tradable goods the market will not take care of these things.

free economy may solve some problems but it also causes some problems ( for example greenhouse effect) and you beloved America is right at the top in that aspect.
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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2005, 22:41:33 »

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What about eviromental issues? I think you should make a trip to the rain forest and then you will see that economy without regulation = exploitation is a fact. clean water and air are non tradable goods the market will not take care of these things.

free economy may solve some problems but it also causes some problems ( for example greenhouse effect) and you beloved America is right at the top in that aspect.


Good point, and this issue tripped me up in my beliefs until I got more information.  Specifically, the book "Healing our World".  You can read this chapter which talks about the environment here:

http://www.ruwart.com/Healing/chap8.html  (it is very short)

In the United States THE biggest polluter is the United States Government, specifically the United States Military.  The funny part is the second biggest polluter is the Environmental Protection Agency because they botch the clean up jobs and make them worse.  This is because there is no repercussion on the military or government.  Also, the government regularly gives away its "protected" area to politically connected businesses.  These businesses get this land VERY cheap because there is no competition for buying this land.

Also, much of the deforestation is due to government owning these forest.  You see, when the logging companies don't own the land they log, then they have no incentive to reforest the property.  It is like the difference between a homeowner respecting their property and tenets respecting the landlords property. Almost all of the private companies and corporations that pollute due so because it is government leased property and they will not reap the damage in terms of resale value (only IF they get caught, and usually those damages are less than the damage of loss of resale value).

Much of the new environmental laws are actually WRITTEN by the established businesses.  This is because start up competition will have to buy very expense new machinery and therefore will not be able to compete.  But don't they have to buy this machinery too?  No, they have it written into law that there machinery will be "grandfathered" in so they will not have to buy this new machinery.  

I am a Libertarian and we live by the rule "You are free to exercise your liberty as long as your liberty does not impede on another persons liberty".  So, if I have a right to clean drinking water and some company is polluting it, then they will be held responsible.  But, in today's society I usually can not be made "whole" again.  The Epa will fine this company and the government will get this money.  Unless I come down with cancer or something.

I like organizations like the Seirra Club, that buy land privately and hold the land.  This was an air tight solution for this problem until the recent ruling on eminent domain by the Supreme Court.

Then there is the liability "shield" on the corporate executives of corporate executives, but I wont get into that.


Han
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