They Live

[personalreality]

Has anyone seen this movie?

It's from like 1988.  It's really interesting.

It's not an OBE movie or anything, it's totally a conspiracy movie that is in line with some of the alternative history theories out there (especially like Tsarion or Bramley, if you don't know them, think David Icke, but not full of bullcrap and disinformation).

If you're into that kind of thing, its a neat movie.

Here's the IMDb about it, its a John Carpenter movie.  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/

[Mini stapler]

Heard about this film yesterday in some obscure bill hicks interview, I'm not really into the whole david icke thing, though I think he makes some good points on his more down to earth stuff, but then I'm not informed enough to really be critical of him or those with opposing views. But I'm always up for a good film So cheers!

[personalreality]

I used to love Icke, but I don't trust him anymore.  I still read his books when they come out, just too see what he's got to say now, but bottom line, I don't trust all of his information.  Nor do I trust most of the conspiracy authors these days.  I don't doubt there is one, I like to think it's aliens, but I couldn't say for sure.  Whatever the case, it's all connected.

I'm really into alternative history and ancient astronauts, or at least advanced civilizations living here before some great catastrophe.  I also love a good conspiracy.  So this movie was just fun for me.  I only used Icke as a reference because people are more familiar with him than Michael Tsarion or William Bramley. 

But the fact of the matter is that you just can't deny the existence of daily manipulation of our consciousness.  People are asleep and blind to their forced slavery.  Now, as to who is doing it, there's plenty of argument to be had and I'm not interested in having that argument with anyone anymore. 

But the movie is still a neat one. 

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But the fact of the matter is that you just can't deny the existence of daily manipulation of our consciousness.  People are asleep and blind to their forced slavery.

I agree there is no doubt there is mass manipulation going on to benefit the interests of certain people, it's not hard to connect the dots on that level, certain people have a lot of money and 'power' and access to certain resources, is it at all surprising to anyone that they would use their resources to increase their wealth and 'power' by promoting X Y & Z that they just happen to have vested interests in... not really lol I agree with everything you say there, I just wouldn't call it 'forced' slavery... I think we always have a choice, the idea that we are powerless against 'them' is just another illusion that gets spread by the fear spreading conspiracies, the idea that they have power over us, which I think is false, it's more that we give up our power to them, making that choice on some level. If it wasn't we wouldn't see people who rise to notoriety for fighting against the messed up system we live in, they wouldn't be able to do it unless they knew they had a choice, that being said, choices do come with consequences, cause and effect and all that jazz.

Now, as to who is doing it, there's plenty of argument to be had and I'm not interested in having that argument with anyone anymore. 

Yeah completely on board there, I've tried talking sense with full on david icke fans, and it always ends in me being insulted or called closed minded, and I'm totally not, I'm always open to being told and proved my views are wrong, they usually are wrong! but how else do you grow and learn! lol

anyway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXudO1bg9RY that pretty much sums up my views on illuminati stuff, and actually I think tupac was saying the same things way back when as well.  easy 

[personalreality]

I just wouldn't call it 'forced' slavery... I think we always have a choice, the idea that we are powerless against 'them' is just another illusion that gets spread by the fear spreading conspiracies, the idea that they have power over us, which I think is false, it's more that we give up our power to them, making that choice on some level.

I only say forced because I think there isn't even a feeling of powerlessness, that people are completely oblivious.  The idea of a choice never occurs to them because for most people in the world, "the way things are" is conditioned into their minds at a young age.  It's particularly devastating in the western world because of all the external stimuli that can be used against our minds.  We are raised in a toxic mental environment and choice is completely irrelevant to most people.  They are happily sleeping.

I also understand your point that on some unconscious level we are all aware and we give our power up willingly.  I could talk about that in more depth, but to be honest I just don't feel like it right now because I'll ramble forever.  But I will say that I believe something happened in our past, a global catastrophe that was so devastating that it literally fractured the human psyche.  The effect of which is a deep psychic/genetic feeling of victimization.  I hadn't really thought about this in this context though.  I usually just think about it as an exercise in psychological contemplation.  Whatever the case, I can't deny the possibility of what you say.

[Mini stapler]

I only say forced because I think there isn't even a feeling of powerlessness, that people are completely oblivious.  The idea of a choice never occurs to them because for most people in the world, "the way things are" is conditioned into their minds at a young age.  It's particularly devastating in the western world because of all the external stimuli that can be used against our minds.  We are raised in a toxic mental environment and choice is completely irrelevant to most people.  They are happily sleeping.

I also understand your point that on some unconscious level we are all aware and we give our power up willingly.  I could talk about that in more depth, but to be honest I just don't feel like it right now because I'll ramble forever.  But I will say that I believe something happened in our past, a global catastrophe that was so devastating that it literally fractured the human psyche.  The effect of which is a deep psychic/genetic feeling of victimization.  I hadn't really thought about this in this context though.  I usually just think about it as an exercise in psychological contemplation.  Whatever the case, I can't deny the possibility of what you say.

Yeah I can understand that totally about conditioning and being totally oblivious, whats that saying 'give me a child and I'll mold you a man' or something along those lines. Schools come to mind when I think of that quote...

"But I will say that I believe something happened in our past, a global catastrophe that was so devastating that it literally fractured the human psyche.  The effect of which is a deep psychic/genetic feeling of victimization."

I've never really come across an idea like that before, that's something to have a think about, could you expand on that just a bit - I have often asked myself how we have arrived in the world we are in now, and why... The problem I have is my lack of knowledge in general is quite appalling, so I tend to be able to play around with idea's using my own experiences, reasoning and intelligence, but when it really comes to getting deep in to a topic I come unstuck I just don't have the knowledge at the moment to do it effectively and come up with any real answers or possibilities. But I'm working on that! 

[personalreality]

Think about a person who experiences a traumatic experience and is emotionally scarred afterward.  The idea is the same, only that it happened on a mass scale to the whole human race.  Problem is, our history is distorted (intentionally in my opinion) and spotty, so we don't know all the details.  But one theory is the deluge.  Every ancient culture on the plant has a story about a great flood.  So, let's just say it was the flood.  A huge apocalyptic event that wiped out nearly all life on earth would probably be really traumatic to the survivors.  They would have to start all over.  If you consider that people were more advanced in ancient history than modern academia says, maybe to something similar to us as far as specialization of work is concerned, then the survivors probably wouldn't know how to do anything to reproduce their society, which would further traumatize them.  The theory says that something like that did happen and the trauma was so severe that it left "psychic scars" that have been passed down through humanity like it was imprinted on our DNA.  So, deep down, we are all psychologically damaged.

You can find information about it in research by alternative history authors and some psychologists as well.  Michael Tsarion talks about it in his book "Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation", I believe William Bramley talks about it in "Gods of Eden" also.  Those are all ancient alien, alternative history books, so if you don't dig the alien bit, then it might be hard to get passed it to see the other info.  Carl Jung talks about it as well when he discuses the shadow self. 

[rezaf]

I watched the movie today and it was interesting. 

I really like conspiracy movies. Who knows? It's really probable that there is some truth is them. With all this science how they have managed to keep  so many obvious paranormal phenomena hidden by labeling them as new age or hippie delusions is very suspicious.

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Okay I see what you mean, I'm interested to have more of a deeper look at that theory, cheers!  I'm completely open to the idea that aliens have been here through out history, so that wouldn't be a problem, seems like they are popping up around the world still, there's so many reports and videos, and some of them are really hard to explain, who knows. Yeah I think history is twisted and warped constantly on purpose for specific reasons through out history, it's just another way to control the flow of information, and control people in general, what is it they say, the winners write the history books or something like that... I've seen a few shows about alternative history and historians, which included aliens being a part of history, but they all seemed to be just there to mock the idea, rather than actually trying to look at it in a sensible way, which is not really surprising, but a bit annoying, cause they don't actually prove it wrong, they just make jokes about the 'crazy' guy telling the alternative history. Cheers for the info! 

[Stookie_]

That's one of my favorite John Carpenter movies - and it has Rowdy Roddy Piper!

[personalreality]

@Mini Stapler:

I highly recommend a couple books if you're interested in ancient astronauts.

William Bramley - "Gods of Eden"
Michael Tsarion - "Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation"
Joseph P. Farrell - "Genes, Giants, Monsters and Men"
Zecharia Sitchin - "The Twelfth Planet" (which is book 1 in a series; they are worth reading, but there are some big criticisms with Sitchin)
Erik Von Daniken - "Chariots of the Gods" (this was his first one, but he's written dozens and dozens of books since the 60's)
              (Sitchin & Daniken were some of the pioneers of the ancient astronaut theory in the mainstream)
Michael Tellinger - "Slave Species of God"

Keep in mind that theories vary and most authors tend to take leaps of imagination to give their work continuity, which leads to some criticisms.

Here are some other authors that are worth checking out:

Phillip Coppens
Michael A. Cremo (he's a good one, but go for his revised book "The Hidden History of the Human Race" rather than "Forbidden Archaeology" because Forbidden Archaeology is a HUGE book and its dense and sometimes boring.  The Hidden History is a condensed version of Forbidden Archaeology.)

Christopher Dunn
Robert Bauval
Graham Hancock
Edward F. Malkowski
Richard L. Thompson

Again, I should stress that any one author should be taken with a grain of salt.  However, once you read a bunch of books from different authors on the subject, you get a much better idea of the theory and can better identify the reasonable arguments from the ridiculous ones.

A lot of the ancient astronaut theories tend to intersect and mingle with conspiracy theories, so be prepared for that too.

[Mini stapler]

@Mini Stapler:

I highly recommend a couple books if you're interested in ancient astronauts.

William Bramley - "Gods of Eden"
Michael Tsarion - "Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation"
Joseph P. Farrell - "Genes, Giants, Monsters and Men"
Zecharia Sitchin - "The Twelfth Planet" (which is book 1 in a series; they are worth reading, but there are some big criticisms with Sitchin)
Erik Von Daniken - "Chariots of the Gods" (this was his first one, but he's written dozens and dozens of books since the 60's)
              (Sitchin & Daniken were some of the pioneers of the ancient astronaut theory in the mainstream)
Michael Tellinger - "Slave Species of God"

Keep in mind that theories vary and most authors tend to take leaps of imagination to give their work continuity, which leads to some criticisms.

Here are some other authors that are worth checking out:

Phillip Coppens
Michael A. Cremo (he's a good one, but go for his revised book "The Hidden History of the Human Race" rather than "Forbidden Archaeology" because Forbidden Archaeology is a HUGE book and its dense and sometimes boring.  The Hidden History is a condensed version of Forbidden Archaeology.)

Christopher Dunn
Robert Bauval
Graham Hancock
Edward F. Malkowski
Richard L. Thompson

Again, I should stress that any one author should be taken with a grain of salt.  However, once you read a bunch of books from different authors on the subject, you get a much better idea of the theory and can better identify the reasonable arguments from the ridiculous ones.

A lot of the ancient astronaut theories tend to intersect and mingle with conspiracy theories, so be prepared for that too.

Nice one mate, I really appreciate you putting this list together! I think it can be quite hard to find quality information through all the B.S, so this could help a lot! Yeah I would imagine a lot of them would have aspects of conspiracy theories in them, which is no problem for me, I was actually talking to someone today about them, I don't see them as worthless dribble, because a lot of the 'dots' that they connect to create their view of the conspiracy are very much things that are happening in the world and I think you can get a lot of useful perspectives and information from conspiracy theories, but still reject the theory it's self.

I've actually just found a book in my collection that I didn't know I had, called 'Gods of the dawn' by Peter Lemesurier - I haven't read it yet, but I think it's about the alignment of the pyramids with the stars and other such measurements, though I have heard as it gets to the second half it gets a bit 'out there' I'm assuming this book also relates to aliens in some aspect...

Again cheers for posting this list, and certainly, i will take them with a pinch of salt! much appreciated!

[personalreality]

The only reason I say to be cautious is because there is a lot of disinformation out there.  The conspiracy is rubbed in our faces daily because most of us are that deluded.  But the details are scrambled, they speak in symbols.  But you hit the nail on the head, it's all about connecting dots to see the bigger picture. 

I would say that the easier the information is to find, the more cautious I would be with how much of it I believed.  But again, dots.  The more you put together, the easier it becomes to spot good information from questionable information. 

[Mini stapler]

Finally sat down and watched 'They Live' haha I liked it, the concept is spot on, if not taken too literally obviously. I thought some of the acting, was a bit errrm... yeah.  I loved the long fight seen when he was trying to make him put on the glasses, good metaphor for the struggle it is trying to force someone to 'see' the madness in the world who doesn't want to. 8/10 I love the concept.

[Jdeadevil]

I've seen about two thirds of the film, it was boring and all over the place. There was this scene where he started a fist fight with someone and I decided to do something else instead, it bored me. Good concept, just badly produced.

[personalreality]

I've seen about two thirds of the film, it was boring and all over the place. There was this scene where he started a fist fight with someone and I decided to do something else instead, it bored me. Good concept, just badly produced.

I mean, it was the 80's, it was a "horror flick" by John Carpenter, and it stars a wrestler.  I wouldn't expect a fantastic film necessarily, but like you said, the concept is good.  And for john carpenter to be making a movie about that concept in the 80's was a good thing.

Finally sat down and watched 'They Live' haha I liked it, the concept is spot on, if not taken too literally obviously. I thought some of the acting, was a bit errrm... yeah.  I loved the long fight seen when he was trying to make him put on the glasses, good metaphor for the struggle it is trying to force someone to 'see' the madness in the world who doesn't want to. 8/10 I love the concept.

I nearly turned it off during that fight.  If I weren't so into the alien/conspiracy thing, I probably would have.  That fight was too long.  I mean, yeah, the metaphor was great.  But damn.  It was like a 10 minute fight over some sunglasses.

[Stookie_]

I mean, it was the 80's, it was a "horror flick" by John Carpenter, and it stars a wrestler.

"80's", "horror", "John Carpenter", "Pro Wrestler" - That's 4 things right there that makes it an awesome movie! Watch it with Escape from New York and Big Trouble in Little China and you have an awesome Saturday afternoon.

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I mean, it was the 80's, it was a "horror flick" by John Carpenter, and it stars a wrestler.  I wouldn't expect a fantastic film necessarily, but like you said, the concept is good.  And for john carpenter to be making a movie about that concept in the 80's was a good thing.

I nearly turned it off during that fight.  If I weren't so into the alien/conspiracy thing, I probably would have.  That fight was too long.  I mean, yeah, the metaphor was great.  But damn.  It was like a 10 minute fight over some sunglasses.

lol I didn't really notice it to be that long, I was doing some work at the same time though, so wasn't 100% focused on the film all the way through. I enjoyed it though, for what it was anyway.

Escape from New York and Big Trouble in Little China - 2 more films to watch for me then!

[personalreality]

"80's", "horror", "John Carpenter", "Pro Wrestler" - That's 4 things right there that makes it an awesome movie! Watch it with Escape from New York and Big Trouble in Little China and you have an awesome Saturday afternoon.

I like Escape from LA better.