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Author Topic: Thoughts on Thought.  (Read 2512 times)
cainam_nazier
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« on: June 11, 2002, 16:28:10 »

I agree largely on what you say but only slighty altered.

"I'm saying Thought is not a primary energy, but the primary energy. Everything is Thought or created by Thought."

My personal belief is Emotion is The primary energy but is controlled or more over governed by thought.  Ever had a fear that no matter how much you rationalize it won't go away?  Ever love some one so much but you don't know why?  That is also why I feel religion can be so strong at times, because it can and does create an emotional responce in people of faith.  I say that emotion is governed by thought only because you can for the most part controll your emotions with correct thinking but even the strongest of us loose that control at times and the emotion pushes through and creates other thoughts.


David Rogalski
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justinh
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2002, 03:20:58 »

I never quite thought about things like that.  That's a really cool idea.

It would make an excellent sci-fi/fantasy book idea.  A society that somehow realized and overcame this barrier....a government conspiracy to "maintain the fabric of the world".... anyway, i'm rambling...

Justin
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2002, 03:20:58 »

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Ashfo
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2002, 09:05:18 »

quote:
Originally posted by cainam_nazier:


My personal belief is Emotion is The primary energy but is controlled or more over governed by thought.  Ever had a fear that no matter how much you rationalize it won't go away?  Ever love some one so much but you don't know why?  That is also why I feel religion can be so strong at times, because it can and does create an emotional responce in people of faith.  I say that emotion is governed by thought only because you can for the most part controll your emotions with correct thinking but even the strongest of us loose that control at times and the emotion pushes through and creates other thoughts.



Hey... This post might start to get rather philosophical but bear with me... Ill do my best Smiley. It might help to notice where I do and dont place capital Ts on thought.. Smiley

We all think of emotion to be more than a thought, it has a much deeper and more profound impact on us.. but does that mean from emotion comes thought? I think not.. I think from Thought comes emotion.

Just like the first man realised he was sticking to the ground and this Thought entered the collective (unconscious) so did this man experience strange feelings - from now on labelled emotions - and these became more a part of collective until now, when they are perhaps the largest "unprovable" Thought. By this I mean we cannot prove emotions, cannot put their essence into mathematics (though my brother who is researching brain building - AI - thinks so). Physical "laws" can be "proven" under constant conditions.. emotions can not, but everyone feels these and this is what makes them such a strong Thought in the collective.

When the first man felt these emotions to be much stronger than perhaps anything else, the Thought that they were strong strengthened until the Thought of emotions being powerful is thesedays very very strong - while our unconscious is in this collective we all feel emotions.. More on little kids and emotions later on.

Emotions are merely manifestations of Thought.. as is everything, that is why many magicians who are practicing describe the "emotionless" feeling. That is because they plugged their unconcious into the Astral collective where no emotions exist because the collective Thought of them being strong doesnt exist.. however they can exist if you want them to because the only collective Thought in the Astral collective unconscious is that of Thought being a primary energy.

That one collective Thought branches off into so many areas - namely, for this case, Thought in the Astral is able to be manifested into "tangible" or "intangible" things - eg emotions. So if you are in the Astral you can manifest emotions as we think of them.


Now for emotions and children... I think children are perhaps initially not plugged into this unconscious - that doesn't mean they can stick their hands through material objects or anything - I believe to begin with the human doesn't have an unconscious but it is grown. While it is being grown children dont have a unconcious in any collective so they dont function by their unconscious collectives laws, rather by the dimension that there conscious-dimensions laws.. I wonder what would happen if a human was born with their unconscious plugged into another collective? Perhaps its "impossible". Anyhow....

Many people label true puberty or development as the ability for children to see things in abstract terms - eg instead of war as goodies and baddies they see the human suffering and other abstract aspects of war. This is because their unconscious is either in or in the process of being plugged into the unconscious, so Thoughts filter down to them.
The example of war and goodies is baddies is important - perhaps this is related to the eternal struggle of good and evil.. perhaps that is the one thing not changed or altered by Thought. Perhaps that is where Thought itself manifested from and is the real meaning for the existence of anything.


One thing I cant figure out is the beginning... Where it all started, where the first Thoughts that began the collectives came from... But I dont find that a problem as noone can explain the Beginning of everything so it becomes rather moot.


I can see something coming - someone saying "oh, well that theory works for everything becuase of the structure of it... you can just say its a manifestation of Thought and you cant be disproven". Perhaps it works for everything because it actually explains everything? Tongue

- Ashfo

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"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
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cainam_nazier
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2002, 09:55:10 »

I can see how thought is very strong on the astral but I still believe emotion to be stronger.  However a person can develope a certain amount of emotional detatchment.  This is what I see is more the case with the magicians.  It is not so much that there is no emotion where they go but rather when they go there thet leave or become detatched from thier emotions as to not be effected by the emotions of where they go.  The emotion has been taken out of the equation.  But that does not mean it is not there.
Now as far as your cave man.  So what was he doing before thought?  He was living emotionally.  The emotions created by hunger drove him to learn how to hunt.  The emotions created by gravity caused him to learn what it was and why.  It was not he thought about it and then had the emotion, it was the emotion that triggered him to think about it.   People do not simply think about stuff with out the emotional motivator.  If you do you tend to become disintrested.
Some peoples thought filters are a little messed up, the result being they run almost entirely on emotion.  For example.  An insaine person who commits murder.  The muder was a result of an emotion, a primal urge, and was not filtered by thought.  It was not thought to be right or wrong it was just done because of that emotional push.  A persons whose filters work fine normally can end up doing the same thing.  A person comes home and finds thier lover in bed with another, kills them both.  The emotional responce to the situation cause it.  They did not think of doing it, it was just done, the filter bypassed, a thought not given, but the action was taken.
This I believe holds true for the collective.  It was created by emotion and is controlled by thought.  The reason it seems to be with out emotion is because of the sheer volume of emotions that are in it.  Children have a higher ability to interface with this because they are primarily emotions.  The emotions are higher than thought since they do not have too many of them.  They only know what they feel.
  This is also why I don't believe in a creator.  I believe the idea is an thought responce from the emotional need to explain things.  Things that are currently beyond the ability of a person to think about and know.   Hence the multitude of gods in the begining and the few or single god of todays world.  Since we have a better idea of what happens on earth there is no need to have a god for it.  It is easier to say that some thing was created by some all powerful force rather than millions on random events falling into place to create it.

David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
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Ashfo
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2002, 07:59:07 »

I guess I should differentiate between Thought and thought first.

Thought is a being of the collective unconscious, thought is merely a passing of information in our conscious.

I see your reasoning - emotion is strong enough to remove all other thoughts, so therefore it must be greater than Thought, no?

I think no...

How can emotion create everything? Emotion is merely a feeling.. Emotion cant create everything.
Thought can create something that is stronger than itself, in certain ways and at certain "time"s.

Sorry, I dont have much time to reply... I'm likely to be without access to a comp for the weekend but would love to continue this later Smiley

- Ashfo

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"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2002, 07:59:07 »



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Ashfo
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2002, 09:21:56 »

Firstly, I would have posted this in the Integral Philosophy board but I really wanted you guys to read this... Please do, strangely its important to me and I'd love feedback.

Frank has stated often "thought is a primary energy". I've thought alot about this and come to some conclusions.

I'm saying Thought is not a primary energy, but the primary energy. Everything is Thought or created by Thought.

The idea of a collective unconsciouss is extremely important to understand for this to make any sense. Onwards....



Physics and the "laws" of our universe that have been proven by repeated experiments in controlled conditions are the by-product of physical humans Thoughts. Let me explain...

Whether you believe we evolved or we were created, humans learnt about "gravity", "forces", "material properties" and our Thoughts on these things concreted them into human existence. Obviously the first man didnt think gravity worked as a force of 9.8ms^-2, but he realised that he was sticking to the ground and this Thought entered the collective human unconcsciouss where new humans also realised they were sticking to the ground and the Thought strengthened. Through the ages man put these Thoughts into physical "laws" which further concreted the Thoughts.

The Thought that we cannot fly or stick our hand through material objects etc etc is so strong in the collective human unconscious that we could never break that belief even if personally truly believed we could - even though we could never truly personally believe that in this dimension unless our unconscious was removed... more on that later.

The "basic laws" of this dimension are concrete Thoughts in such a large percentage of the collective unconsciouss population that these cannot be broken - however there are Thoughts that are also powerful but not as concrete - a prime example being religous belief. When these Thoughts become strong a part of our "reality" can change - such things like Marian Apparitions and "miracles" can occur. It is important to realise these are merely manifestations of Thought.

Now comes a very important idea... Death is often thought by those in religous and spiritual circles as the release of the Spirit, and that might be so to a certain degree, but more importantly it is the release of your unconscious mind from this dimensions collective and the acquisition of your unconsciouss by the collective in the next dimension.

Now in this new dimension - the Astral you might call it - the collective unconscious Thought is that Thought is the primary energy, there are no "physical laws" and that the world is governed by Thought. Because of this Thought you are able to change things with Thought and alter your "reality". You might want to re-read that Smiley

When we project into the Astral dimension we are actually unplugging our unconscious from this dimensions collective and plugging ourselves into the Astral dimensions collective. That is why OBEs are often labeled as a life altering experience - the realisation comes with the Thoughts from the new unconscious collective.  

"paranormal" events can occur three ways;
a) By the manifestation of huge Thought, eg religion.
b) By unplugging our unconscious from this dimensions collective.
c) Outside interference

a) Was explained up and fairly self-explanatory

b) When projecting we not only unplug our unconscious from this dimensions collective and into the Astral but also "project" our conscious mind to the Astral dimension. To change things in our dimension we must do the first but reverse the latter, that is to keep our conscious in this dimension.

That is extremely difficuilt to do, the reason why to become adept at Magick or any other "paranormal" work takes years of practice and why many who do manage to accomplish this describe a feeling of distachedness from this dimension - that is, of course, because their unconscious is in another.

c) Outside interference is the reverse of b). An entity from another dimension must leave their unconscious in their dimension but project their conscious into ours. Logically this would sound incredibly difficuilt, but practicaly it would be incredibly easy - because your unconscious is in the Astral you know Thought simply is. So you think you can unplug your conscious, and you do.

I've been thinking about this for a little while, and to me it all fits... anyhow, I gota go do some damn Physics homework or I'll get another coupla detentions.. Such a depressing thought after something like this Tongue

Thoughts, feedback.. please something!

- Ashfo

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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