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Author Topic: vampires / vampirism !  (Read 6401 times)
WalkerInTheWoods
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« on: July 21, 2003, 11:13:02 »

To each their own. I think this is really dangerous though if they are drinking the blood of strangers. Just think of all the viruses and diseases they could get from this. Probably worse than unprotected sex with someone you don't know.
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violet84
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2003, 11:42:38 »

this wannabe vampire stuff is a pretty pathetic attempt to stand out from the crowd and get noticed. You'd have to be desperate for  attention to resort to drinking someone's blood.
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2003, 11:42:38 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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Nick
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2003, 02:38:52 »

Hi Mark,

Down in LA (about an hour and a half south of where I live) I'll sometimes see the look you described in your post. Usually in places like Melrose or West Hollywood.

I guess part of it is feeling culturally alienated and part wanting to belong as well. I really don't see any harm in it.

However, the drinking blood part seems rather unsanitary, and dangerous. [xx(]  

Very best,
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clandestino
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2003, 06:29:46 »

hello there Nick !

Actually, it was filmed in LA. Not sure whereabouts exactly.
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goingslow
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2003, 20:22:34 »

The thing that bothers me about those types of people is they're trying so hard to be different.  I think it is stupid and I always have.  A lot of it is based on Anne Rice novels, and the people try to live out the beautful vampire crap.  I just think its dumb to be so "different" by completely conforming to a type.  In this case a book.. they were pretty good stories but come on.

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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2003, 20:22:34 »



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spellcast91
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2003, 21:36:54 »

trying to fit in by drinking someones blood is a bit weird,and its probably very bad for you.the dicision  (i think i spelled that wrong...) is the persons own and we shouldnt judge them,but i do think that they shouldnt do it..................
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Fenris
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2003, 11:38:50 »

Howdy

Beneath this whole vampire culture fitting in posing shenanigans the true reasons behind blood drinking are very interesting. The collected and processed energy from our chakras is passed into the channel created down our spine by the front and back charkas intersecting with the crown and root charkas. This energy comes to meet the physical body as is accepted by science through the nadis, or the energy rivers that flow along the spine. The nadis are intimately linked to the nervous system, in Gopi Krishna’s Kundalini the Evolutionary Energy in Man he refers to his raised kundalini flowing through his nerves. Anyway back on the farm from the nervous system our energies next port of call is our endocrine system, consider the location of our glands in relation to the positions of our charkas. The energy is then moved throughout the body like every other substance that is really important to reach everywhere in our bodies - our blood.

Apparently people can be born missing a charka, or maybe they just have a massive blockage so they don’t get a particular type of energy into their body. And since they have not made subtle energy vitamins yet there is one other way to get the energy you need without going to the drama of improving yourself, drink someone else’s blood. So blood is full of energy, and I guess it really doesn’t taste that bad![Tongue] There are some who naturally produce more energy than they need, and in some cases can handle, these people might offer themselves as a donor.
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shadowatcher
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2003, 11:46:14 »

Your probably right that at one time this might be someones motivation, but in this case, its just attentionwanters.
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Fenris
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2003, 12:46:45 »

I’m sure most goth vampire type folk don’t even fit into this category, I was more talking about the truth behind the myth…or the reality inspiring the stupidity [Smiley]
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Randøm_
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2003, 12:57:11 »

It's called "goth" and VERY few people who are goth think themselves vampires. I like the fashion, music, and demeanor of the style.
I thnk it's downright sad that some people, especially here, speak condescendingly about a sub-culture. Remember, believers in what is freely spoken of here would once have gotten people burned for witchcraft.

For the record, I wear black clothing, will wear makeup when clubbing, and am similar to what is considered gothic when I go to certain places. Basing some of the opinions I've read here reminds me that prejudices aren't merely linked to skin, nationality, or theology, but also upon a person's attire. Sheesh.

PS ... as with any group of people, in "goth" ... there are fanatics, don't base an opinion of a group upon its extreme. Normal is boring.
BTW, the Catholics have a little ritual where they symbolically eat the body and drink the blood of Christ!? Many beleif structures incorporated the consumption of a body to immortalise its energy. However, many of these civilisations died out from disease ... because they consumed an infected body.
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Tisha
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2003, 14:14:41 »

Sigh!  I remember the '80s when my sister was into the Cure.  She took on a zombie look and considered herself quite the thing.  Personally, I think she was a depressed teenager.  Fortunately she got over it.

I do "goth" sometimes too (I'm Queen of Darkness at work, but not all the time) and I'm pushing 40!  Vampire wannabes do goth, but not all goths are vampires.  

I think most goths are just romantic.  There's nothing wrong with creating a subculture of swashbuckling men and corseted damsels (or dominatrixes, whatever!).  Besides, I love what the corsets do to my - um - pontoons. (ha ha).  You should SEE some of the fashions out there, they're amazing.  And the boots!  Be still my heart!

I like my steaks rare.  That's blood on the bottom of my plate. Do I gross out?  Non. I like the taste.  Human beings are animals too.  I'm not an advocate of vampirism, I'm just trying to throw in a little perspective: drinking blood is not the big deal people want to make it to be. It's just a bodily fluid.  People should use the proper safeguards (i.e., monogamy, AIDS testing, etc.) and just be careful.

Oh - - and I've never actually drunk someone else's blood, if anyone is wondering.

ta ta,


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Tisha
clandestino
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2003, 14:26:04 »

Hi there Random !
 I don't think anyone's speaking badly of a subculture, that wasn't my intention at least. I just thought the blood-drinking bit was a bit much !

...but like Tisha says, I too enjoy steak that is barely cooked...Its the same blood, different animal.

Random, you said :
 
quote:
However, many of these civilisations died out from disease ... because they consumed an infected body.

can you tell us a bit more ? cheers !

best wishes
Mark


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Randøm_
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2003, 20:04:53 »

Hey, clandestino,
My agitation caused by some comments in this thread was not caused by you. I actually agree that slitting wrists for the sake of sharing blood to be a bit much, at least for me. I know others who have done that and it just doesn't appeal to me. The only blood I've ever tasted and liked is my own, and I never took part in a ritual for
blood-letting, then again, there are a lot of rituals I think are silly, from a variety of religions.

As for religious cannibalism, I may not remember the exact names of the civilisations, but many of these people inhabited what is called
South America today. The strange thing is that these people were not dependent upon hunting, but vegetation, which led to their beliefs that tended to be morbid or violent/ The thought was that since the life of a plant ended upon the approaching winter, and was replaced by a new one come the spring, that one had to offer its life for the other to be born. As if, there were a certain amount of energies that would inhabit one body each. They also tended to sacrifice people at altars to gain favour from the ghods. One tribe I read about in history practiced feeding on their dead, which was reported by a European explorer at the time. The problem is that the explorers brought foreign diseases that the natives' bodies were not prepared for since immunity develops through heredity and environment. Well, needless to say, after one body died from fever and was consumed, the whole lot of them acquired the same sickness and all died.

The existence of diseases such as AIDS could very well do the same thing to people practicing drinking the bodily fluids today. Then again, it can also happen through another exchange of fluids called sex.

Just to get back to the original topic, people who share my appeal for goth styles mostly do it because they like the way it looks, period, the same reason so many people wear those horrible khaki pants and god-awful ties. Just because most people opt to be less creative and follow trends set by the mainstream does not give them the right to ridicule those who crave something a little different. The worst comment I've seen (for me) in this thread was reducing "goths" to attention-seekers. I don't know about the others, but one benefit to dressing goth is that a lot of people leave me alone, lol. Everyone seeks attention, that's natural. After all, why would anyone post to a forum if they didn't want some attention? Furthermore, the reason people conform to what is considered normal fashion is also for reasons of attention, not wanting to be seen as different, but a "team player" ... to be accepted.

Well, thanks for the exchange. It was not your curiosity that bugged me (curiosity is always a good thing) but the following slams that came afterwards from a couple different people regarding others derogatively just because they are a little "different" than what's considered normal.
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goingslow
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2003, 20:17:20 »

whats different about dressing like all your friends?  If not your friends then 1000 other people?

I personally dont care what people wear.. I dont wear a tie etc but I dont go out of my way to dress in a trend that is "different".  I dont think clothes really define a person, but in a big way the goth people use clothes to define how "different" they are.

It just doesnt make sense to me.. if clothes are no big deal why take the time out to look so different.  You're not different because of how you dress its your ideas and personality.  I dont believe in focusing so much on the physical in order to show how unique you are.  And I think that is what a lot of these people are doing.

However, the topic was about the vampire thing which is stupid.  NO matter how many historical cases you can state where it has significance that has nothing to do with the scene the original post was talking about.  

I dont think the whole vampire thing is worse than any other "sub culture" or mainstream society.  I just dont think they can claim to be so different.  Its all the same whether you chose to try to fit in with mainstream society or some underground one you're still just trying to fit.  Just call it what it is instead of trying to make it into some big statement (not aimed at you but some of the documentaries I have seen where the kids talk about how they are unique and different and want to show that.)  No need to get defensive.  Even though we enjoy interacting about Astral projection doesn't mean people here are not going to have opinions.
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Randøm_
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2003, 20:58:22 »

quote:
Originally posted by goingslow

whats different about dressing like all your friends?  If not your friends then 1000 other people?



You tell me, you ARE one who slammed a group of people because of their choice of clothing. I was hoping you'd explain it. I see a horrible lack of creativity in looking like everyone else. There IS something wrong with it when YOU confuse your preference with what is "supposed" to be.

quote:

I personally dont care what people wear.. I dont wear a tie etc but I dont go out of my way to dress in a trend that is "different".  I dont think clothes really define a person, but in a big way the goth people use clothes to define how "different" they are.


You're right clothes don't define a people, so please refrain from derogating people because of the clothes they choose to wear.

quote:

It just doesnt make sense to me.. if clothes are no big deal why take the time out to look so different.
 

Umm, the same reason people get dressed up for weddings, or put on cologne to go out ... because, well, we like it (I use the word "we" grudgingly because I am not truly "goth"). Do you shampoo, condition, tan, diet, etc.? We each do things to look a caertain way, just because someone does things in a manner that is not common does NOT make it wrong.

quote:
You're not different because of how you dress its your ideas and personality.  I dont believe in focusing so much on the physical in order to show how unique you are.  And I think that is what a lot of these people are doing.


Well, your argument is against many centuries of uniforms (see the schooling system, military, police, security, nurses, etc.), even what is considered "fashionable" is, in a sense, a uniform with a little variety. I agree with you, but I like Halloween too mcuh to have to wait til its annual arrival to be "allowed" to dress in a way that appeals to my preference/vanity.

quote:

However, the topic was about the vampire thing which is stupid.  NO matter how many historical cases you can state where it has significance that has nothing to do with the scene the original post was talking about.


It has EVERYTHING to do with why the vampire folk lore began to begin with. It's not my fault today's society leanrs much of its values from hollywood themes derived thereafter. Just as there is historical value in why men traditionally keep their hair shorter than women. EVERYTHING has roots in history.  

quote:
I dont think the whole vampire thing is worse than any other "sub culture" or mainstream society.


Yet, only one was insulted by you in this thread. Hmmm

quote:
I just dont think they can claim to be so different.  Its all the same whether you chose to try to fit in with mainstream society or some underground one you're still just trying to fit.  Just call it what it is instead of trying to make it into some big statement (not aimed at you but some of the documentaries I have seen where the kids talk about how they are unique and different and want to show that.)


Note that I initially alluded to the fact that a sub-culture should not be judged upon its fanatics. That was pre-emptive, lol.

quote:
No need to get defensive.


There was no need to be offensive in the early portion of this thread, either. But ...
My friend, I am not defensive, but I often get that. I love to argue intelligently, and will always defend someone who is being bashed merely because others don't agree with their choices. You have your rituals, we all do, and you prefer some looks to others, and will adhere to your preferences. Great, may you always do that, but may you not so hastily demean others who do the same, just to a different fashion than you prefer.

quote:
Even though we enjoy interacting about Astral projection doesn't mean people here are not going to have opinions.



Very true, and this is mine. [Wink]

Oh yeah, two other notes. If some goths truly thought they were vampires, they wouldn't need to purchase fake fangs (mine are natural, lol). And I'd also like to stress that Anne Rice did NOT invent vampirism, and I, personally, think she is a horribly over-rated author whose profession was piggy-backed off of her husband ... and I live in the same city as she (New Orleans). At least Brian Warner (a.k.a. Marilyn Manson) moved to L.A.
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Fenris
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2003, 02:14:58 »

Hi Randøm

I must admit that because I wanted to relate what I had to share back to the original topic I jumped the band wagon on this one, and it was nether necessary or mature. Thanks for the eye opener, at first my ego was screaming for a counter argument, but why insult both of our intelligences. Thank you and I apologise.

P.S Btw when I said “I’m sure most goth vampire type…” I was not implying that they are in the same boat incase it reads that way, rather the blood drinkers being a segment of the goth community.

Regards
Daivd
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goingslow
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« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2003, 02:38:10 »

I on the other hand was giving my opinion and not trying to jump on a bandwagon.  I rarely if ever do.. so it still stands.

The reason I didnt talk about other subcultures is obvious.  The topic asked about our opinion on the vampire "subculture".  It doesn't matter so much to me if a person prefers the goth look or likes dressing up.  I have an opinion on it, but its not something I'd discuss cus I have no strong feelings on it.  I like intelligent debate too, but I dont really have much more to say on this topic.

I think the whole vampire thing is silly.. that most likely will never change.  Its something kids do I hope, I mean if there were 30 year olds there doing it thats just pathetic.  I havent read one good reason do drink another person's blood at clubs so my mind isnt changed.  The goth thing just isnt my taste but I have goth friends.  However, if they said they enjoyed drinking blood and acting like vampires I'd tell them i thought it was stupid.  

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goingslow
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2003, 02:42:10 »

Oh btw I appreciate the invitation to a debate.. I'll look forward to debating with you on another topic if it ever comes up.

take care
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Randøm_
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2003, 02:50:20 »

Hello, Fenris,
I have an extreme attraction to the arts of debate, and my stances often wreak of my own ego. I apologise for my somewhat aggressive manner of arguing. Reading my last post, I see myself as coming off in what seems to be a very defensive manner. This is a fault of mine, for I am not feeling the least bit slighted as much as an opportunity to indulge in something I enjoy ... debate. I have quite a bit of "the devil's advocate" in me and just like to reason for the oppsition (whoever it may be). I would also say that I'm prone to tailor my suppositions in a manner that would appeal to another's ego, hence, the art of debate.

So I apologise to anyone who I may have unwittingly antagonised with my articulation. I am somewhat ego-driven in some areas. We all are human, and fallable as such.

I've enjoyed this, and if different perspectivees on this matter help make us (both sides) more empathetic, then all is well that ends well. [Smiley]
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Randøm_
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2003, 03:04:10 »

hello, goingslow,
To focus on our common ground, I think sharing blood as a recreational pass-time is silly. Then again, I think dancing is sillier and watching sports is the silliest of all things.

You are more than entitled to think it stupid (as others are entitled to judge the things you do). Bringing opinion to a public forum is more than mere opinion, but can be somewhat demeaning ... not to me, personally, but others who take it more seriously.

For those who partake in the blood-letting for the fad of it, that's fine by me, as long as they don't impose their rituals on others who aren't interested. The same goes for genital piercings and body art. Not everything needs an excuse, lest we'd all be proven to be pretty silly more often than we'd like to admit.

I look forward to future potential debates, goingslow, thanks for the indulgence. [Smiley]
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clandestino
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2003, 07:23:08 »

quote:
I look forward to future potential debates, goingslow, thanks for the indulgence.


Same here, random ! welcome to the forums, hope you enjoy it round here !

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Nayru
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2003, 01:11:51 »

Ah... wannabe-vampires.. I do not know if it's true, but I heard some even sleep in coffins. I hope it's not, that would be really.. really.. lame.. I also saw something like that on tv here in the Netherlands awhile ago. They went to the dentist to sharpen their teeth and more stuff like that..

The story behind blooddrinking is indeed very interesting, see a post made earlier by I-forgat-who.. Though the problem is that wannabe-vampires are 1) confused with gothics, and since wannabe-vampires don't have a good name, gothics automatically become 'evil' along the process, and 2) also make 'real' vampires (psivampires and sangvampires (as in, 'real' blooddrinking vampires, who get their energy from blood) look very, very, bad. That in combination with Hollywood and all the popular vampire-movies is killing for the 'real' vampirecommunity. Load Google or any other searching engine, and search for 'vampirehunter' or something similar, and you'll understand what I mean.

I will not be surprised if psivampires/sangvampires have a bad name here too. I will probably not even discuss the issue when I come across it. It's useless... And it's everywhere the same. *sighs* I wonder what will happen if psivampires/sangvampires would become widly known over the world... probably hunted down, like witches used to be..

But, back to the point; I personally have nothing against wannabe-vampires. Everybody has the right to live their lives the way they want it. ^.^
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clandestino
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2003, 11:07:53 »

Hello folks, I saw 15 minutes of an american programme last night on this subject.

Basically, there are groups of young people in America who call themselves "vampires". You'll recognise them easily enough - they look like they've stepped straight of the movie set of "The lost boys"....fangs, white make-up, the works.

For most, its a case of hanging out with like-minded people, in a "scene"....you go to clubs, and listen to vampire-style music (whatever that is), you date vampire chicks.

But some take it a bit further and actually drink each other's blood. I'm interested in what my fellow astral pulse members think of this !

I love the film "lost boys" - kiefer sutherland was one cool vampire. But biting someone's wrist and drinking their blood, on a club dancefloor, now that's taking it a bit too far, surely ??!!!

Mark
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