imagination or AP differences

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Karxx Gxx

hey. a question popped up when reading about people visiting mars and what not.
i havnt apd yet so keep that in mind.

If you AP and go to mars, how will you know what is actually there and what is your imagination? do you just know or what.

Same question for OBE

thanks!
Your way is The way

Symbol

I agree, I see no way of proving to yourself that you were on mars.
To be honest though, if you prove to yourself that you are really astral projecting (see something happen in the real world, then wake up and confirm it happened), then well, you know you're astral projecting, so yeah..

So if you know that you're really truly astral projecting, maybe that would be proof enough for you, so you can go to mars and know you was there.

Hope you understood what I was trying to say.

Astral316

You should probably understand that AP is imagination and more fundamentally, physical reality is imagination condensed into a stable and consistent birth/death plane of existence. When one APs, the chance of encountering the Mars that identically corresponds to this plane is well, one out of an infinite number. Without a mastery over mind, you won't see anything strikingly close to "our Mars" without having already been there. More often then not even the familiar environments you encounter will include some degree of visible distortion. That said, try not to think in terms of "material world = real, imagination = fake" but rather "material world = one plane of existence, imagination = all others."

majour ka

It all sounds right to me, but when your having an OBE / AP you know it!! and knowing while its happening and the way you know it afterwards are different because it a different state of consciousnesses.

But just sitting and lets say remote viewing or using your imagination, or seeing it with clairvoyance all a different thing.




kurtykurt42

Quote from: majour ka on November 20, 2011, 01:53:00
It all sounds right to me, but when your having an OBE / AP you know it!! and knowing while its happening and the way you know it afterwards are different because it a different state of consciousnesses.

But just sitting and lets say remote viewing or using your imagination, or seeing it with clairvoyance all a different thing.





I've tried combining the techniques of RV and AP for a while to produce pretty good results. RV focuses on a target which is different from AP, where you focus on just trying to do it. Now that I've run out of targets and know it works, I'm working on understanding how it works.

Karxx Gxx

yea i get the whole
Quote from: Astral316 on November 19, 2011, 22:54:21
That said, try not to think in terms of "material world = real, imagination = fake" but rather "material world = one plane of existence, imagination = all others."

Yea i get that, just thought you can control which plane you want to go to and assumed the closes one, ours, would be the easiest to go to.
Guess you just Gota master APing.

that being said, what about OBE? is that pretty much AP except on our plane?
IF that is true, couldnt you OBE to mars?

Quote from: kurtykurt42 on November 20, 2011, 07:43:06
I've tried combining the techniques of RV and AP for a while to produce pretty good results. RV focuses on a target which is different from AP, where you focus on just trying to do it. Now that I've run out of targets and know it works, I'm working on understanding how it works.
How do you combine both? is you target something , isnt the same as just doing it?  im assuming you do both while AP. If not then disregard that question.
Post what you find out too. kinda intrested Knowledge is power  :-D
Your way is The way

catmeow

Quote from: Kaje The Astral Newbie on November 19, 2011, 21:16:04
hey. a question popped up when reading about people visiting mars and what not.
i havnt apd yet so keep that in mind.

If you AP and go to mars, how will you know what is actually there and what is your imagination? do you just know or what.

Same question for OBE

thanks!

You can't. The astral experience of physical locations is plagued with fantasy and imaginary constructs.  I believe this has to do with level of astral consciousness. The higher your level of consciousness, the more accurate will be your observations.

Ingo Swann claimed he travelled to Jupiter back in the 70s (I think) and reported that Jupiter had rings, a bit like Saturn. The subsequent Voyager mission confirmed this.  But Ingo Swann was quite gifted (assuming he wasn't cheating) and even he frequently had regular problems reporting physical details accurately. All OBErs have difficulty reporting physical environments accurately.

The exception is NDErs who usuall report back very accurate physical details, but this is (imo) because the physical body is completely "dead" at the time of the NDE and ALL consciousness is transferred, prefectly, to the astral, allowing perfect astral operation.

As long as you have a functioning physical body, your astral consciousness will be diminished, and your observations will be imperfect.
The bad news is there's no key to the Universe. The good news is it's not locked. - Swami Beyondananda

Karxx Gxx

thanks cat meow! that made a lot of sense and was more direct  :-D
Your way is The way

kurtykurt42

Quote from: Kaje The Astral Newbie on November 20, 2011, 11:31:30
How do you combine both? is you target something , isnt the same as just doing it?  im assuming you do both while AP. If not then disregard that question.
Post what you find out too. kinda intrested Knowledge is power  :-D


I combined the energy body devlopment techniques of Robert Bruce with Ed Dame's RV DVD courses. I used to practice 5+ hours / day and was able to project to any target in space/time and see it as if I were seeing with my eyes.

As for how it works... RV has the theory that our subconcious mind can access any information about anything, past, present or future. We receive the infoformaton conciously and write down all the colors, sounds, etc. that pop into our heads on paper. When you practice the energy body techniques of robert bruce it allows you to see your surroundings and more clearly hear your subconcious mind. Leading me to believe that we project our minds into a parallel dimension of this one where everything is made of energy.

There are many theories but until the technology to measure other dimensions comes out we won't know for sure how it all works!

catmeow

Quote from: Kaje The Astral Newbie on November 20, 2011, 22:49:51
thanks cat meow! that made a lot of sense and was more direct  :-D
Glad you found it useful!
The bad news is there's no key to the Universe. The good news is it's not locked. - Swami Beyondananda

majour ka

#10
Quote from: kurtykurt42 on November 20, 2011, 07:43:06
I've tried combining the techniques of RV and AP for a while to produce pretty good results. RV focuses on a target which is different from AP, where you focus on just trying to do it. Now that I've run out of targets and know it works, I'm working on understanding how it works.

If your seeing it from another location ie RV then, Clairvoyance if you see it...Clairsentiance if you feel it... that's how it works.

majour ka

Quote from: catmeow on November 20, 2011, 21:18:11
You can't. The astral experience of physical locations is plagued with fantasy and imaginary constructs.  I believe this has to do with level of astral consciousness. The higher your level of consciousness, the more accurate will be your observations.

Ingo Swann claimed he travelled to Jupiter back in the 70s (I think) and reported that Jupiter had rings, a bit like Saturn. The subsequent Voyager mission confirmed this.  But Ingo Swann was quite gifted (assuming he wasn't cheating) and even he frequently had regular problems reporting physical details accurately. All OBErs have difficulty reporting physical environments accurately.

The exception is NDErs who usuall report back very accurate physical details, but this is (imo) because the physical body is completely "dead" at the time of the NDE and ALL consciousness is transferred, prefectly, to the astral, allowing perfect astral operation.

As long as you have a functioning physical body, your astral consciousness will be diminished, and your observations will be imperfect.

Yes very good answer like it  8-)

kurtykurt42

Quote from: majour ka on November 21, 2011, 20:45:18
If your seeing it from another location ie RV then, Clairvoyance if you see it...Clairsentiance if you feel it... that's how it works.

Yes, a combination of both Clairvoyance and the two varieties of Clairsentience: Sense Extension and Sense Projection. When you project your conciousness to the target and maintain the ability to see everything (Clairvoyance) you can then try to use your other senses (Clairsentience) to help correctly decode the target. I've found I could only do this if my energy level was raised high enough through Bruce's techniques. Sometimes it would feel as though I was there physically. You could feel the cold, smell the flowers and hear the voices.

Szaxx

Hi,
Never heard of clairsentience, does this include all emotions of a group, past, present (apparent time), and future when for-seeing an event?
There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.

kurtykurt42

#14
Quote from: Szaxx on November 22, 2011, 04:28:48
Hi,
Never heard of clairsentience, does this include all emotions of a group, past, present (apparent time), and future when for-seeing an event?


http://www.wingmakers.co.nz/Clairsentience.html

Karxx Gxx

so do you recomend the dvd?
Or is it just as easy if you do this by yourself googling his techniques (assuming NEW)
Your way is The way

majour ka

Quote from: kurtykurt42 on November 22, 2011, 05:03:17
http://www.wingmakers.co.nz/Clairsentience.html

Hi,  Clairsentience is the most common of all psychic senses, its the ability FEEL the information your working with, it sounds flimsy but can be extremely clear and profound, both for working on the psychic level and and the Mediumistic level. It works through the solar plexus chakras .

Clairgustance is the ability to taste (spelling)

Claircogniance is the ability to know the information so profoundly it enters you awareness as if you are looking through anothers eyes/memories/experience.
You can be completely aware of another location or event and be aware of aware of where you are physically also...other senses will undoubtedly be working all together with this, ie clairvoyance, Clairsentiance and Clairaudiance.which of course are not bound by time or space.

Of course all the senses belong to our spirit self so are not bound by time or space, hence why we can feel see or sense things at another location in the past present or future..ie RV


Back on the topic though, if we are traveling out of our body there is no question what the experience was..if there's doubt then its probably that your were not, in my mind.
But as for locations what can we prove? only those we can visit afterwards or gain information for that can be verified.