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Author Topic: The Power of Suggestion  (Read 3797 times)
FreeChile
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« on: January 05, 2005, 20:16:35 »

Can the power of suggestion and the effect of placebos be explained in terms of energy or any other phenomenon?  Below is an excerpt from an article I read recently.  The point of my question is not to attack any belief but to try to explain the "Power of Suggestion".  How is it possible that we as individuals can be affected in such a way and to what degree do suggestions operate on us?  Could we all--or at least those not "enlightened"--be living a suggested existence?

For example, could the power of suggestion be explained in terms of our own thoughts?  Perhaps by thinking in terms of the suggestions offered, we effect the changes suggested.  Also, is there a way to know whether something is operating on us because of suggestion or because of some other reason?

And finally, does it matter, as long as it works or brings us closer to our goals?  Said another way, does a suggestion operate on us because we let it or because we have no other choice and our experiences have set us up.  Meaning, is it destiny or free will?

EXCERPT FOLLOWS:

"Scientists in England, headed by Dr. Christopher French, a psychologist at Goldsmith's College, London, and Dr. Richard Wiseman, a parapsychologist/psychologist at the University of Hertfordshire in Hatfield and researcher into paranormal claims, conducted tests recently showing that claims by the New Agers - that a dangling crystal around the neck can raise "personal energy" levels, cure disease, alleviate stress, boost creativity, raise levels of consciousness, enhance psychic powers in areas such as divination and dowsing, and uplift the spirit - may be totally imaginary. Surprise!

Their study has shown that the sensations reported by believers in crystals - tingling, warmth, and feelings of well-being - come instead from the power of suggestion. There were eighty volunteers, all of whom were given, in advance, a sheet of paper explaining ten of the sensations that they might experience while handling a crystal. Half were given a genuine New Age-approved crystal for a few minutes while relaxing, and the other half were asked to handle a fake crystal made of expensive cut-and-polished glass, but all were told that they handled the genuine article. All but six of the volunteers reported mysterious sensations when they handled the crystals, real or not.

The subjects reported experiencing some of the wonders claimed for crystal-power, among which are: tingling, more focused attention, balanced emotions, a rise in hand temperature, increased energy levels, improved sense of well-being, relaxation of the forehead, stimulation of the brain, and "activation of all levels of consciousness." Dr. French told the British Psychological Society at a conference in Glasgow that the scientists found no difference in the sensations reported by those holding a real quartz crystal and those given a fake, and believers in crystals scored about twice as high on a "combined sensations index," than self-professed skeptics. "
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Logic
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2005, 20:57:59 »

I definatley agree, reality is what you make it. What difference is it if its objective or not, you'll never know otherwise and should be happy with the subjective.
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2005, 20:57:59 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Tyciol
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2005, 20:03:22 »

Ah, the tragedy of being a skeptic. Those not easily fooled lose power in situations where fooling yourself to belief brings power. Kind of like god.
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karnautrahl
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2005, 22:22:01 »

closed skeptism is so boring, why bother? where's the wonder.
mind you, closed believer is just as bad smiley two sides of a coin perhaps.
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Tyciol
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2005, 03:24:07 »

Oh I'm not a closed skeptic, I'm a very open one. In cases of suggestion, it's not openness that gives you the power, it's belief, regardless of what is real. Only those able to believe in fiction will have it work, which interferes with truth.

That is the only thing I will die for: the pursuit of personally knowing the truth. I may procrastinate knowing the truth, I may block it out, but I will never believe a lie in anything but jest.
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2005, 03:24:07 »



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FreeChile
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2005, 20:23:00 »

Logic, I am not so sure “reality is what you make it.”  It appears to me that reality makes you and there is little choice in the matter.  Judging from a lot of the experiences of individuals on this site and throughout life, it looks like control is not in us.  Some say it is nature operating on us and some say it is mystical or transcendental.  At any given moment, the unanticipated arises, especially when we feel most secure and confident.
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Tyciol
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2005, 04:54:04 »

You do make your own reality, I think you are, however, misconstruing that to mean 'reality is what you perceive it to be', which it certainly is not. People tend to get delusional when they take it that way, their mistake. You actually have to know what's going on, and change excrement.
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Logic
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2005, 07:52:53 »

You cannot experience anothers reality, you can only make it your own. You will only know what you choose to see and believe, whether it exists or not.

Delusion is in the eye of the beholder, along with the rest of reality.
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Tyciol
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2005, 21:11:38 »

Wrong, we see what is real unless we're extremely delusional.

We do not choose to see hallucinations any more than we choose to overlook something, it just happens, it is not controlled, and it is not chosen.
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Logic
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2005, 05:19:50 »

Im not talking about hallucinations, im talking about subjective reality. Prove that it makes one delusional.
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2005, 07:01:08 »

It is impossible to either prove or disprove whether what we see is real.

Here is an interesting article on the power of suggestion:

Quote
In  1950, a new drug called Krebiozen had received sensational national publicity as a “cure” for cancer and was being tested by the American Medical Association (AMA) and the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). One of the researchers involved in this testing was a doctor called Bruno Klopfer.

One of Dr. Klopfer's patients, a Mr. Wright was suffering from cancer of the lymph nodes. All standard treatments had been exhausted, and Wright appeared to have little time left.  His neck, armpits, chest, abdomen, and groin were filled with tumors the size of oranges, and his spleen and liver were so enlarged that two quarts of milky fluid had to be drained out of his body each day.

When Wright discovered that Dr. Klopfer was involved in research on Krebiozen, he begged to be given Krebiozen treatments. At first his doctor refused because the drug was untested and only being tried on people with a life expectancy of at least three months.  Wright begged so hard, however, that Klopfer decided to give him one injection on Friday, though he secretly suspected Wright would not last the weekend.

Dr. Klopfer was in for a big surprise.

On the following Monday, Klopfer found Wright out of bed and walking around.  Klopfer reported that his tumors had "melted like snowballs on a hot stove" and were half their original size.  This was a far more rapid decrease in size than even the strongest X-ray treatments could have accomplished.

Ten days after Wright's first Krebiozen treatment, he left the hospital and was, as far as his doctors could tell, cancer free.  When he had entered the hospital, he had needed an oxygen mask to breathe, but when he left he was well enough to fly his own plane at 12,000 feet with no discomfort.

Wright remained well for about two months, but then articles began to appear asserting that Krebiozen actually had no effect on cancer of the lymph nodes.  Wright, who was rigidly logical and scientific in his thinking, became very depressed, suffered a relapse, and was readmitted to the hospital.  This time his physician decided to try an experiment.

Dr. Klopfer told Wright that Krebiozen was every bit as effective as it had seemed, but that some of the initial supplies of the drug had deteriorated during shipping.  He explained, however, that he had a new highly concentrated version of the drug and could treat Wright with this.  Of course, the physician did not have a new version of the drug and intended to inject Wright with nothing more than plain sterile water.

Again the results were dramatic.  Tumor masses melted, chest fluid vanished, and Wright was quickly back on his feet and feeling great. Yet he had been injected with nothing more than sterile water.

Wright remained symptom-free for another two months, but then the American Medical Association announced that a nationwide study of Krebiozen had found the drug worthless in the treatment of cancer.  This time Wright's faith was completely shattered.  His cancer blossomed anew and he died two days later.

Wright's story is tragic, but it contains a powerful message:  When we are fortunate enough to bypass our disbelief and tap the healing forces within us, we can cause tumors to melt away overnight. The patient’s mind alone, independent of the value of the medication, produced his recovery.


- Bruno Klopfer, "Psychological Variables in Human Cancer," Journal of Prospective Techniques 31 (1957), pp. 331-40


Reality, it seems, is what we perceive it to be.


Alex
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Tyciol
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2005, 09:44:10 »

Oh please. I've heard that debate over and over again. Sure, logically it makes sense, but we don't all go catatonic and start imagining things, because they're not real, and they make us die from lack of food.

Reality is the path that most strongly supports existence, it is proved by trial and error of your judgments of others' existences, come upon through reliance on the information of others or your own realization. Any path that deviates is illusion. Evolution has led to those with the best sense of reality, or with qualities that best entertain those with the best sense of reality, to exist, while others die. This is what has developed the mass conception of reality, which is further enforced through community and co-conspiracy. With further mastery over reality, more means through which to determine it come into play, technology being the best example of this.
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alexd
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2005, 02:06:30 »

When every school teaches that 2+2=4 then of course we would assume that it is reality if we agree with that notion. If you started speaking a weird language everyone would think you are insane, but if we were never raised to speak English and that language instead it would fall into the parameters of reality. I wouldn't rely too much on what you see around you to be real and limiting (the article above showed that no limits really exist).

Of course the Astral proves experientially that higher realities than the physical exist.


Alex
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Tyciol
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2005, 07:41:16 »

Yep. I haven't convinced myself the astral's real yet through continually doing it though. Please forgive my ignorance, but I must judge by what I know Sad
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FreeChile
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2005, 15:05:51 »

In a discussion with other members of this forum, I alluded to the connection between consistency and "reality"?  Is there a connection?  Is consistency what we base our arguments on?  Or is consistency another assumption of the prevailing physical "reality"?

The subject of that discussion is "Television and OBE":

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16088
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Tyciol
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2005, 05:23:15 »

Consistency is the basis for reality, yes.
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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2005, 19:14:18 »

Achieving alpha is not as important as whether it is the operator or subject who has the stronger will.
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Delete this, Major Tom. I will not have any more of my posts removed due to their rebuttal of admittedly anti-Semitic Illuminatists, who have have been referred to with quotes and specific bibliographical information.
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2005, 21:07:03 »

I wonder if a tree suggests to a camelion the color of it's shade? I wonder how this relates to the natural ability of humans to mimic and resonate with each other and their environment? What is the product of dischord?
pharmakeia
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