Astral planes according to Frederick Myers

[Alan McDougall]

According to Frederick Myers, stage one is the earth dimension. As soon as the earth experience has been thoroughly comprehended – either through reincarnation or through the exchange of experiences with others in other dimensions – the soul may proceed to dimensions beyond the reach of the material dimension.

Stage two is called the Intermediate Realm or Hades. This is the spiritual condition, which is referred to in the ancient religious traditions as "hell." This is the realm where all must go upon experiencing the earth realm. Here, memories of our entire past lives flash before us. Whether or not this experience is "hellish" depends upon the memory of the particular person. If it contains sinister episodes and terrifying experiences, these will drift by the person's vision along with the more joyful happenings.
Some persons begin at this stage to feel what is called "the earth pull, the birth pull" and the person may decide to return to stage one, the earth realm. For others, stage two is brief and is followed by entry into a more stable world, which is stage three, the Realm of illusion.

The Realm of Illusion is a dimension where things may be created with the mind and shaped by the direct action of the imagination. Though a person may linger in this stage for undeterminable period of time, an eventual decision must be made. The soul returns either to earth or to progresses to stage four. Before leaving, however, the more enterprising souls may have an opportunity to experience one of the great wonders of this dimension of consciousness – a tour through some section of "The Great Memory." Just as on earth, one may go to a library and see newsreels of important earth events of history, so, in stage three, one may witness any event that occurred from the beginning of human experience. The Cosmic Memory has recorded everything that has ever happened.

Stage four is the Realm of Color. This dimension is an indescribably lovely existence. Here one must leave behind all rigid intellectual structures and dogmas, be they scientific, religious, or philosophical. An infinite variety of new sounds, colors and feelings are experienced here and souls find a much wider freedom to function with highly energized intellect and spirit. If, in this dimension, the soul becomes free from the earth pull, it is qualified to experience cosmic ranges beyond earth's confines, such as the next dimension.

Stage five is the Realm of Flame. In this dimension, the soul acquires a body of flame, enabling it to tour the stellar universe without being harmed by its temperatures and turbulence and to return with a fuller experience of these cosmic reaches. 

Stage six is the Realm of Light. Souls in this dimension are matured spirits, having lived through, with conscious comprehension, all the aspects of the created universe. They are capable of living now without form, of existing as white light in the pure thought of the Creator. They have joined the immortals, thus fulfilling their final purpose of the evolution of consciousness. 

Stage seven is the Realm of Timelessness.  In this dimension, souls enter full partnership with God. This dimension is of an advanced spiritual nature, so close to the ultimate essence of creativity that no adequate vocabulary has yet been evolved to describe it, and hence it is difficult to communicate to earth-level beings.

I hpoe you find this of interest

[catmeow]

These ideas sounds very much influenced by Theosophy to me.  F W Myers was a scientist and member of the Society for Psychical research around about 1900 I think.  Theosophy was all the rage at the time and I think he drew his ideas from the movement.

Have you read any of the books by Dr Robert Crookall?  He was one of the most prolific OBE researchers of the last century and proposed similar ideas such as an interim "hades" like zone (what we would call the RTZ) between the physical and astral.  After death people experience a life review of the type you mentioned and spend a short time in this "hades" zone before passing onto the astral.  The time spent was usually about 3 days as this was the length of time needed to shed the "etheric" matter clinging to the double before it passed on.  Some souls become "stuck" in hades and become "ghosts".  Just wondered if you read any of Crookall's books?

I got a few of Dr Crookall's books kindly sent over to me for FREE from India, after an innocent inquiry for research materials for a thesis I was writing on OBEs some years ago.

[Alan McDougall]

Catmew,

These ideas sounds very much influenced by Theosophy to me.  F W Myers was a scientist and member of the Society for Psychical research around about 1900 I think.  Theosophy was all the rage at the time and I think he drew his ideas from the movement.

I dont know anything about Dr Robert Cookall and indeed very little about Fredrick Myers. I do know a little about Theosophy nd what I do know I dont like.

Thanks for the info

alan

[Tayesin]

Catmew,

I dont know anything about Dr Robert Cookall and indeed very little about Fredrick Myers. I do know a little about Theosophy nd what I do know I dont like.

Thanks for the info

alan

Thank you Alan for the excellent laugh, re: not liking the bit you know about Theosophy.

I too do not abide by the reckonings of anyone who has not explored and experienced wider realities for themselves, and as such, most of the Theosophical material falls into that category. Sure, some of it was useful as a young teenager to glean the occasional small gem, but in the light of experience it has all faded to nothing.

A new group has begun here in my small town; an extension of the Theosophical Society from the next bigger city and I've been invited to their meetings with a view to joining, which I kindly refused and then had to answer the question, "But why not? You're spiritual aren't you?" LOL

Answer, "We are all spiritual beings. I do not need to hear what amounts to a continuation of the same old belief-system based, control-dramas, but thank you anyway." The person looked at me as if I had just called them the worst names possible, LOL, again.

There was no way to appease the offense they were feeling.

So, from my current perception, most of the old ways have no reference for where we are heading as aware beings maintaining an earth incarnation. And very little of what exists from the traditional views of Theosophy (just as an example) should come through with us into our future as most of it still keeps people boxed in and unable to experience anything outside of that box, no matter how big their box is.

As I like to say, "There is no substitute for having the experiences yourself.", and, "It is better to know for yourself than simply choose to believe".

Love Always.

[Alan McDougall]

Tayesin,

The little I know about theosophy, is that Hitler adopted much of his beliefs in the super -race idea from it.

He also used the philosopher Neitzer ideas which I abore and are against everything I  believe is good in humans.

love

alan

[CFTraveler]

Actually, it was Nietzche (now I misspelled it  ) and the theories of nihilism, combined with evolution and some occultism.  But theosophy is just a combination of eastern philosophy and western christianity and scientism that  traveling philosophers adopted in the 1800's, a way to combine both.  In other words, what Hitler was doing wasn't about theosophy itself, but about the way he saw reality.
I'm no theosophist and disagree with a lot of the dogma and the hoopla that it created, but do agree that it did engender other positive movements and allowed for a freer expression of spirituality.  The good with the bad.

[catmeow]

Theosophy as CFTraveler mentions is really Eastern Mysticism rebranded for a western audience.  I was always suspicious about it, because it seemed that the main proponents, Helena Balavatsky, Charles Leadbeater and Annie Besant, seemed to be far too accurate and identical in their clairvoyant observations.

It seemed rather contrived to me.  Also Leadbeater's reputation was tarnished by accusations of an unhealthy interest in young boys.  I think the general principles are of interest though, and there is some overlap in Theosophical teachings and more contemporary ideas.  What we might describe as focus levels, they call "planes".  We have four focus levels, compared to their seven or so "planes" (physical, etheric, astral, mental, causal, devachanic... ?).  They also made a lot of observations about the human aura which are still of interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Webster_Leadbeater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_plane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_body

[Alan McDougall]

Hi guys this is what I dug up about theosophy as I know little about it it might be biased

http://www.shoaheducation.com/philosophies.html


Spiritual Aryanism is a spin on general 'Aryanism' philosophy in which not only the physical aspect of Aryanism is taken into account, but the spirit and religious aspects of human existence are seen to follow the same principles of the genetic 'Master Race' just as Social Darwinism saw society paralleling Biological Darwinism.

following their earthly period (post-terrestrial), and finally with research into the extra-sensory, extra-terrestrial, cosmic forces that influence racial development in the present" "3 The attempt in theozoology and similar pseudo-sciences is to mix science and pseudo-theology, with preference to the latter, usually in new-age or racial-theory type theologies.


Theozoology attempts to investigate racial characteristics and spiritual correlations with via their historical antecedences. Says one source:"Ariosophy, Armanism, Theozoology and Ario-Christianity are all terms used to describe the Aryan-racist-occult theories of Guido von List (1848-1919) and Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels (1874-1954) and their followers in Austria, particularly Vienna, and Germany. • Helena Petrovna Blavatsky was a main source of their occult ideas." The founder, Adolf Joseph Lanz, was also known as: "Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels," & "Dr. Jörg Lanz." Much of Lanz's terminology was integrated and adopted in Nazi thought.

Hitler denied being deeply involved in Lanz's work, but Nagl (see links) cites references to Mein Kampf which are either directly adopted or even plaigerized from Lanz's work. [note: Nagl, ref:#43] Lanz incorporated with "Theozoology" (in which racial characteristics of Aryans increased/improved over time) notions of the 'hollow earth'(see below) and Atlantean mythologies as well. One of Hitler's assimilations of 'theozoology was the belief that world domination must be racially based.

What to you think?

Alan

[urakei]

Catmeow Quote

The time spent was usually about 3 days as this was the length of time needed to shed the "etheric" matter clinging to the double before it passed on.

Val Valerian also talks about 3 days. But his terms is from sudden up to 3 days to "shift".

Like alan had listed about realms, Ra-material states about densities. Almost similar like what you had listed.
Val agrees with robert monroe "focus", he includes it with the level of densities. George kavasillas also lectured about densities in youtube.

Val website
Ra-material website
George kavasillas lecture

My personal conclusion is no matter what the term is, no matter how many densities/dimensions/realms there is, we will move/shift/ascend/proceed to other dimension.... someday... but from what i see and heard, its getting near, probably before 2012.

Hope this helps

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

I am sorry but this description of the astral plane does not appeal to me.  I don't think the universe is structured in that way.  On earth, there are consciousnesses in varying degrees of evolution, and our purpose for being here and our experiences are different from one another.  When we leave the physical dimension, again we have different experiences based on our evolutionary levels.  Some are on ego-karmic level and others have progressed to group-karmic.  Yet, those with traumatic death and life experience (addictions, attachment etc) are likely to become sick souls or "psychotic post-mortems" who may or may not eventually get help to recover and reincarnate.  Our evolution is in our own hands, and not structured as levels 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.  Note: I am not saying this is the way it is, but sharing my understanding of it from my various readings, experiences and discussions with others.  So this is not up for an arguement 

[CFTraveler]

Hi guys this is what I dug up about theosophy as I know little about it it might be biased

http://www.shoaheducation.com/philosophies.html


Spiritual Aryanism is a spin on general 'Aryanism' philosophy in which not only the physical aspect of Aryanism is taken into account, but the spirit and religious aspects of human existence are seen to follow the same principles of the genetic 'Master Race' just as Social Darwinism saw society paralleling Biological Darwinism.

following their earthly period (post-terrestrial), and finally with research into the extra-sensory, extra-terrestrial, cosmic forces that influence racial development in the present" "3 The attempt in theozoology and similar pseudo-sciences is to mix science and pseudo-theology, with preference to the latter, usually in new-age or racial-theory type theologies.


Theozoology attempts to investigate racial characteristics and spiritual correlations with via their historical antecedences. Says one source:"Ariosophy, Armanism, Theozoology and Ario-Christianity are all terms used to describe the Aryan-racist-occult theories of Guido von List (1848-1919) and Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels (1874-1954) and their followers in Austria, particularly Vienna, and Germany. • Helena Petrovna Blavatsky was a main source of their occult ideas." The founder, Adolf Joseph Lanz, was also known as: "Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels," & "Dr. Jörg Lanz." Much of Lanz's terminology was integrated and adopted in Nazi thought.

Hitler denied being deeply involved in Lanz's work, but Nagl (see links) cites references to Mein Kampf which are either directly adopted or even plaigerized from Lanz's work. [note: Nagl, ref:#43] Lanz incorporated with "Theozoology" (in which racial characteristics of Aryans increased/improved over time) notions of the 'hollow earth'(see below) and Atlantean mythologies as well. One of Hitler's assimilations of 'theozoology was the belief that world domination must be racially based.

What to you think?

Alan

It's not so much that it's biased it's that it's simply illustrating how there can be many theories about reality, different in their essence- Darwinism is one thing, theosophy as a metaphysical theory is another, and nihilistic philosophy is another- they are all results of a specific group's interpretation of what is happening in their field/life (reality)- so of course any powerful dictator figure is going to take from whichever the philosophy is and make what they want to create.
For example, now, in the present we have different theories on reality- the 'traditional' religious theories of reality, which are almost divorced from what science knows about reality- then there are the 'new agey' movements, with an attempt to marry scientific discovery with spiritual dogma, and all the philosophical movements that stem from the political climate on most western countries.  The prevailing philosophy is what it is, and anyone who emerges as a dictator or world oppressor is likely to pick from one or many of the available mental offerings and create their own religious/philosophically based 'reasons' for doing whatever they are going to do.
Is it going to be the fault of the prevailing spiritual/philosophical/religious theories or movements, or is it going to be the fault of the people that will weave them into a personal and political philosophy?  And, will it be the fault of whoever buys the resulting ideas and supports a tyrant until they figure out they've been duped?
It's unfortunate, but historical interpretation isn't always evenhanded.

[catmeow]

Is it going to be the fault of the prevailing spiritual/philosophical/religious theories or movements, or is it going to be the fault of the people that will weave them into a personal and political philosophy

Yes that makes sense to me too.  Taking a philosophy and twisting it doesn't discredit the original philosophy.

[Greytraveller]

Here I would like to add a few of my personal observations and opinions to this top-rate discussion..
Everyone here has probably heard of Robert Monroe yet few know much, if anything, about Frederick Myers.

Frederick W Myers was IMHO a genius. Anyone who is Seriously interested in OBEs and survival of physical death really Should Read Myers "Human Personality And Its Survival Of Bodily Death". This is a Classic (if very long ) book. Myers collected hundreds of OBE reports from the period 1860 through 1895 and published them here. Myers is indeed a gigantic pioneer in the OBE and afterlife field of endeavor.

My view of Theosophy is that it was an attempt to westernize Hindu and Bhuddist esoteric knowledge and make it understandable to the average European and American. Back during the height of the Theosophy movement few westerners had heard of tantras, upanischads, chakras and mantras and only a few dozen people really understood them. So the theosophists tried to 'dummy down' these complex concepts for westerners to 'consume'.

Finally about Myers structure of the Beyond (astral planes, ethereal realms, etc). As human perception is never perfect so it follows that nobody can be expected to completely map ALL the superphysical realms. At least Myers had the courage and foresight to put his discoveries out in published form for others to read. Myers' "Stages" are best viewed as an early mapping of the Great Unknown. Much like early  seafarers brought back incomplete and often faulty charts of their explorations so Myers "stages" can be seen as a starting point to map an atlas of the astral and ethereal realms.

Grey

[catmeow]

Excellent post Greytraveller

Many of the people on this board are unfamiliar with the origins of OBE research and with its early pioneers.  These include Oliver Fox, Sylvan Muldoon, "Yram", Vincent Turvey etc etc.  I used to read a lot of theosophical literature because at the time it was the only readily available knowledge from an Eastern perspective.

The accounts in particular of Sylvan Muldoon differ from the accounts of modern projectors, in that he was exclsuively what we would today call an RTZ projector.  In fact if you believe in Theosphical theories, he was an "etheric  projector" rather than an astral projector.

I mentioned Dr Robert Crookall.  Like Myers he collected many many hundreds of cases of OBE experiences and published them in numerous books.  He was prolific in advertising the subject.  Today we hear of the life histories of a small number of astral travellers, Monroe, Bruce, Buhlman, Peterson, Moen etc.  But there is in fact a treasure trove of probably thousands of accounts from ordinary individuals, whose experiences are fascinating to read.  This treasure trove probably adds more weight to the argument  that these experiences are "real" than any single book by Monroe or whoever:

http://www.amazon.com/Study-Practice-Astral-Projection/dp/0806505478

I have never read the volume you refered to but I think I'll get hold of a copy now.  I've always known about it.

[Greytraveller]

Thanx for the nice words Catmeow, they are always appreciated.

One more comment about Myers. After Myers died in 1901 he managed to communicate many messages From the Other Side. These messages were chanelled through well known mediums/psychics and were extensively reviewed by his living colleagues in the Society for Psychical Research (SPR). These colleagues had known Myers well when he lived. All these colleagues were completely convinced in the authenticity of Myers' afterlife correspondences. Today these communications, known as the Myers "Cross Correspondences" are considered by many leading psychic researchers to be amoung the Best Evidence for Life after death.

Also I have 2 or 3 books by Crookall. There is a great deal of useful information in his books. (However, generally, Crookall's books are hard to find).

Thanx 
Grey

[catmeow]

Hi Grey

Yes the "Cross Correspondences" are another book I should have read!  Have you heard of the "Scole Report"?  It's an interesting report of a series of "sittings" which took place over several years in the 1990's.  Considered by many to be the best proof of survival we have, but as always much criticised, although no one has ever been able to fault any of those involved.  I've always been suspicious that the sitters would not allow infra-red photography, but nevertheless it would have taken exceptional skillfull trickery to achieve the effects. I think F W Myers was alleged to have communicated at the sittings:

http://www.afterlife101.com/Scole_1.html
http://www.esalenctr.org/display/confpage.cfm?confid=9&pageid=91&pgtype=1

[Greytraveller]

Interesting that you should mention the "Scole report" Catmeow.
I have just finished reading an online ebook by Victor Zammit titled "A Lawyer Presents a Case for the Afterlife" (BTW it can be found in the books section at www.worlditc.com ) Zammit devoted an entire chapter of that book to the Scole experiments (Scole was the town in the UK in which they took place.) Zammit also had various links for the "Scole Report" including a link to the British Society for Psycical Research (www.spr.org.uk or something like that).
Also another similar experiment is being planned for sometime this year or next.

Grey

[catmeow]

Here we go: http://www.victorzammit.com/book/chapter08.html 

Victor Zammit is quite active in debunking the debunkers....