Dealing with projections of the mind or real entities?

[Xanth]

Fusions, let me give you a new perspective.
Why does it matter if someone/thing you've experienced came from within or without?

Instead, ask yourself "did I learn or gain anything from the experience?"

That is all that is important.

[deepspace]

Fusions, let me give you a new perspective.
Why does it matter if someone/thing you've experienced came from within or without?

Instead, ask yourself "did I learn or gain anything from the experience?"

That is all that is important.

I agree with that. We have a limited perspective from which to see things. Our experience is really the only true perspective from which we can relate to anything. It's the only thing we can be certain of.  

Everything you relate to which is external, must be internalized in order to experience it. Our entire experience is generated by our own consciousness and like you say, the value of that experience is what matters most. I try not to get caught up in trying to sort out what comes from the inside and what doesn't. Whether it's part of yourself or some other entity outside yourself the result is still the same. You interacted with it at some level and had an experience. What was the real value of that experience? What are you taking back with you? What did you learn?

[rezaf]

Fusions, let me give you a new perspective.
Why does it matter if someone/thing you've experienced came from within or without?

Instead, ask yourself "did I learn or gain anything from the experience?"

That is all that is important.

It's not important if you don't have any pragmatic goals but sometimes if you want to put your skills in use then you need to analyze and differentiate between the two. For example in healing arts you need to differentiate between internal factors like deficiency of the organs, disharmony, ... and the external pathogens like the entities. For the former you nourish or harmonize, for the latter you expel the external pathogen. Usually it's a combination of both and in that case you must decide which one is more important and modify the treatment accordingly.

[Xanth]

It's not important if you don't have any pragmatic goals but sometimes if you want to put your skills in use then you need to analyze and differentiate between the two. For example in healing arts you need to differentiate between internal factors like deficiency of the organs, disharmony, ... and the external pathogens like the entities. For the former you nourish or harmonize, for the latter you expel the external pathogen. Usually it's a combination of both and in that case you must decide which one is more important and modify the treatment accordingly.

Healing is just healing.  It's really just that simple.
You probably won't understand this yet but... all that other stuff you mentioned above is "relatively" meaningless.

[deepspace]

Healing is just healing.  It's really just that simple.
You probably won't understand this yet but... all that other stuff you mentioned above is "relatively" meaningless.

It really is simple, in fact, all you need to do is seek to know the truth. But simplicity is not what some people want. There are those who wish to complicate things, their motives are not particularly important. I'm always suspicious of people who claim you need some kind of special training from some Guru. Sorry, but just like Frank Zappa I just don't trust these "mystery men". My advice to them is the same as his: Look here brother, don't you waste your time on me.

[seapony]

Okay...a pennys worth here....

If we are all one with the world, it is ALL us...internal, external,physical, non-physical...
it is all the same. If we believe to much in the state of separation...in duality...then we will
believe that things are out side of us, when it is all us.
As Bashar says...its is All That Is...not All that is ,plus whats outside ! But as he also says..
if you WANT it to be complicated, go ahead and make it that way !

[rezaf]

Healing is just healing.  It's really just that simple.
You probably won't understand this yet but... all that other stuff you mentioned above is "relatively" meaningless.

A And B want to fight in a boxing match in 2 years. A goes to a boxing gym and trains the techniques, cardio and sparring everyday. B says A is making things too complicated. Fighting is just fighting, it is that simple. So he never trains because it can't be more complicated than his play station game. After 2 years they finally come to fight and reality bites B in a few seconds.

[Xanth]

A And B want to fight in a boxing match in 2 years. A goes to a boxing gym and trains the techniques, cardio and sparring everyday. B says A is making things too complicated. Fighting is just fighting, it is that simple. So he never trains because it can't be more complicated than his play station game. After 2 years they finally come to fight and reality bites B in a few seconds.

I agree, 100%.  However, you have one big problem in your example: you're thinking "physically". 

You're limiting yourself by that physical-based thought.
You've gotta begin to think BEYOND the physical. 

[rezaf]

I agree, 100%.  However, you have one big problem in your example: you're thinking "physically". 

You're limiting yourself by that physical-based thought.
You've gotta begin to think BEYOND the physical. 

I don't know about other realms and I'm not concerned about them as long as I live here but in this realm Physical and non physical are connected. They shape the universe and as a result are limited by each other. This universe is about matter and energy which is the physical side and the thing that decides their transformation which is the non physical. That's why the healing arts of this realm work by the same rules and no matter how strong your will is in transforming disease to health you are limited by your physical resources.

[deepspace]

A And B want to fight in a boxing match in 2 years. A goes to a boxing gym and trains the techniques, cardio and sparring everyday. B says A is making things too complicated. Fighting is just fighting, it is that simple. So he never trains because it can't be more complicated than his play station game. After 2 years they finally come to fight and reality bites B in a few seconds.

Yes, that's how it goes in the Physical.

But then B invites A to the NPR and things go a little bit differently there.

A gets his his butt kicked, despite all of that training, but doesn't understand why. After all he's done all that training in the physical so what's going on:

Then B offers this:

How did I beat you?

A says: You... you're too fast.

Then B gives him the real answer: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

Then A realizes that things work differently here.

[Lionheart]

Yes, that's how it goes in the Physical.
But then B invites A to the NPR and things go a little bit differently there.
A gets his his butt kicked, despite all of that training, but doesn't understand why. After all he's done all that training in the physical so what's going on:
Then B offers this:
How did I beat you?
A says: You... you're too fast.
Then B gives him the real answer: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?
Then A realizes that things work differently here.

But then A says, "that was just a Dream though". So now we are back to square one all over again! 

Sorry, I couldn't resist! 

[rezaf]

Yes, that's how it goes in the Physical.

But then B invites A to the NPR and things go a little bit differently there.

A gets his his butt kicked, despite all of that training, but doesn't understand why. After all he's done all that training in the physical so what's going on:

Then B offers this:

How did I beat you?

A says: You... you're too fast.

Then B gives him the real answer: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

Then A realizes that things work differently here.

Where you are describing is not the ultimate non physical. It's still matter, energy and transformation though the particles might be different from the mainstream science which means that the non physical has new physical resources but basically the same rules apply.

[deepspace]

 

But then A says, "that was just a Dream though". So now we are back to square one all over again!  

But then B starts laughing. A can't figure out why. A finally asks "What's so funny?" B says, "False awaking! Got Ya!" 

[Szaxx]

Then C comes along and informs them of the pointless battle. He takes both of them into the all white energy-only realm. Once there they connect to the source and realise they are both one. The truth takes them by surprise.  They realise that what you learn in a closed cell isn't enough to accept the truth. They open their minds and see the almost futile struggles of physical existance. Once returned they have seen the light and remain very open-minded.
One day they want to return to the light and change their mindset completely.

[Xanth]

I don't know about other realms and I'm not concerned about them as long as I live here but in this realm Physical and non physical are connected. They shape the universe and as a result are limited by each other. This universe is about matter and energy which is the physical side and the thing that decides their transformation which is the non physical. That's why the healing arts of this realm work by the same rules and no matter how strong your will is in transforming disease to health you are limited by your physical resources.

Realize that I'm not saying you're wrong for believing what you do above. 

I'm saying that you are limiting yourself by putting yourself into this box which then limits your potential for change... physically and non-physically.

[Fusions]

Fusions, let me give you a new perspective.
Why does it matter if someone/thing you've experienced came from within or without?

Instead, ask yourself "did I learn or gain anything from the experience?"

That is all that is important.

Well, If I am lucid and I knew it was all created from my subconscious or what ever, the entities there are not really 'alive'. I woudn't think twice about grabbing a girl and having sex with here, but I don't want to astrally rape someone. Even though all the sex I had till now was mutual anyways.

[rezaf]

Realize that I'm not saying you're wrong for believing what you do above. 

I'm saying that you are limiting yourself by putting yourself into this box which then limits your potential for change... physically and non-physically.

You can't live inside the box and pretend that you are outside of the box. From the eternal oneness point of view birth and destruction are both relatively meaningless, experiences of the "self" both the earthly ones and the astral ones are meaningless also health and sickness are both meaningless. So if you want to go by those rules the whole concept of the word "healing" that you mention in #28 is also meaningless. It's nice to be aware of it in philosophy but as long as we live inside the box I prefer to do as the Romans do.

[Xanth]

Well, If I am lucid and I knew it was all created from my subconscious or what ever, the entities there are not really 'alive'. I woudn't think twice about grabbing a girl and having sex with here, but I don't want to astrally rape someone. Even though all the sex I had till now was mutual anyways.

I'll be 100% honest here...

It comes down to your values, morals and ethics.  I won't tell you how you should behave or act, but realize that EVERY SINGLE ACTION you take has an Intent behind it.  This all part of what drives your experiences... physical AND non-physical.  There is no separation in consciousness.

Just realize that.  I won't bother saying why that's important though, because deep down you already know.

[deepspace]

Well, If I am lucid and I knew it was all created from my subconscious or what ever, the entities there are not really 'alive'. I woudn't think twice about grabbing a girl and having sex with here, but I don't want to astrally rape someone. Even though all the sex I had till now was mutual anyways.

My philosophy on the Astral is this: Treat it with the utmost respect. I consider myself a guest there and as such I try to come more as an observer/explorer and not disturb things or entities there in a destructive way. Part of the reason is that when I make it there, it's an incredibly real world, mind-boggling. I really feel obligated to take it seriously, and it's important to treat it that way so I am really careful there.

But of course if the entities there are O.K. with whatever I want to do, then I do it. Sometimes it's not even my idea anyway.

This morning I got out and into a big city. As I walked down the street passing lots of people, I looked at each person's face really closely, marveling at the level of perfect detail in each one and comparing them in my mind to what people look like in the physical world. Wondering how that level of realness is even possible. My advice is: If you want it be real, treat it that way.

[Fusions]

My philosophy on the Astral is this: Treat it with the utmost respect. I consider myself a guest there and as such I try to come more as an observer/explorer and not disturb things or entities there in a destructive way. Part of the reason is that when I make it there, it's an incredibly real world, mind-boggling. I really feel obligated to take it seriously, and it's important to treat it that way so I am really careful there.

But of course if the entities there are O.K. with whatever I want to do, then I do it. Sometimes it's not even my idea anyway.

This morning I got out and into a big city. As I walked down the street passing lots of people, I looked at each person's face really closely, marveling at the level of perfect detail in each one and comparing them in my mind to what people look like in the physical world. Wondering how that level of realness is even possible. My advice is: If you want it be real, treat it that way.

That last is good advice, thank you.

And I know all is one, you are me and I am you. I had some crazy experiences with this on shrooms