My doubts about projecting...

[astromalt]

Firstly, I just want to assure you, I am not trying to be controversial for the sake of it!! My following questions and statements are not intended to provoke a reaction but to seek answers to the questions we have all asked ourselves at one point or another.

So here goes....

I am not convinced that Astral Projection is anything more than the mind and imagination working in tandem. I should also point out that i'm not entirely convinced it's not either!!

Since my last post, projecting has been happening thick and fast. Its been happening most nights actually, even when i'm not trying to do it. I've had some really lovely experiences and some quite profound as well. I've been getting guided by a cloaked figure that has never revealed their face, i've been taken to what looked like a giant chess board in the sky and saw myself (looking very warrior like and awesome) as a third party being reprimanded by some archetypal Zeus figure telling me i'm not capable. I've been shrunk to the size of a bug and explored the grass in my garden. My point is, I've been having some really great experiences but that old devil "doubt" is starting to sink in.

Are we really projecting our consciousness into unseen realms? Are we really communicating with spirit guides, archangels , deceased loved ones and other entities? Is our consciousness manifesting outwith our physical selves and having an independent experience or....Are we simply projecting sub conscious feelings and emotions whilst in a lucid dream state and experiencing what we want and expect to experience?

If you ask me, the two are most definitely not the same!

I first came across the term "astral projection" when I was learning about meditation and a few books later, I was completely engaged to the idea. I had it in my head that I would first learn to exit my body, see my physical form on the bed/chair, see some sort of silver cord, be able to call upon various forms of beings who would be looking out for my best interests and learn step by step from there!! That has never happened. My experiences, whilst great at the time, have not led me to believe that what is happening is anything more that just my imagination manifesting as dreams relating to something that has been in my mind at that particular time.

If i'm honest...the reason I am writing this post is 90% for reassurance or guidance. But if that is the case, does it not make sense that I (we) should be having these experiences if we desire and will it so much??

Any feedback would be welcome as always.

Be well



 

[Xanth]

Firstly, I just want to assure you, I am not trying to be controversial for the sake of it!! My following questions and statements are not intended to provoke a reaction but to seek answers to the questions we have all asked ourselves at one point or another.

That's okay.  I want to assure you that I, personally, don't really care if you doubt whether it's a real thing or not. 
Asking questions and experiencing are how you learn.  We can teach you to project to have your own experiences and hopefully answer your own questions at some point too.

So here goes....

I am not convinced that Astral Projection is anything more than the mind and imagination working in tandem. I should also point out that i'm not entirely convinced it's not either!!

Since my last post, projecting has been happening thick and fast. Its been happening most nights actually, even when i'm not trying to do it. I've had some really lovely experiences and some quite profound as well. I've been getting guided by a cloaked figure that has never revealed their face, i've been taken to what looked like a giant chess board in the sky and saw myself (looking very warrior like and awesome) as a third party being reprimanded by some archetypal Zeus figure telling me i'm not capable. I've been shrunk to the size of a bug and explored the grass in my garden. My point is, I've been having some really great experiences but that old devil "doubt" is starting to sink in.

Are we really projecting our consciousness into unseen realms? Are we really communicating with spirit guides, archangels , deceased loved ones and other entities? Is our consciousness manifesting outwith our physical selves and having an independent experience or....Are we simply projecting sub conscious feelings and emotions whilst in a lucid dream state and experiencing what we want and expect to experience?

If you ask me, the two are most definitely not the same!

I first came across the term "astral projection" when I was learning about meditation and a few books later, I was completely engaged to the idea. I had it in my head that I would first learn to exit my body, see my physical form on the bed/chair, see some sort of silver cord, be able to call upon various forms of beings who would be looking out for my best interests and learn step by step from there!! That has never happened. My experiences, whilst great at the time, have not led me to believe that what is happening is anything more that just my imagination manifesting as dreams relating to something that has been in my mind at that particular time.

If i'm honest...the reason I am writing this post is 90% for reassurance or guidance. But if that is the case, does it not make sense that I (we) should be having these experiences if we desire and will it so much??

Any feedback would be welcome as always.

Be well

How about we set ALLLLLLLLLL that aside for now... and we just simply teach you how to experience it on your own.  Then you don't have to have us "reassure" you.  You'll have your own direct experiences to draw from, because face it... anything less than that won't do a damn thing for you. 

[astromalt]

Once again, I'm not trying to be awkward or cynical. Please don't misinterpret this.

If you have never needed reassurance Xanth, you obviously have a better instinctive grasp than I do. I'm working on mine, trying to learn how to know and how to listen.

My point is still very much valid though.

The other night, I projected whilst my wife and I were both sleeping in bed. I found myself in my room (for the first time), it was dark but I could see enough. My wife had gone, the bed and the room were different, the room was slightly different, when I floated out the bedroom door the house was slightly different?

How do we know that we are not just consciously dreaming about experiencing a phenomena we are all willing ourselves to have?

I heard about a study conducted in the states where some people projected and traveled to another site to read information off a card on a table in a house hundreds of miles away. Has anyone else tried this successfully?

I'm not giving up.. Just thought it was a point worth raising. Especially for the people out there who are just starting this journey. 

[Xanth]

How do we know that we are not just consciously dreaming about experiencing a phenomena we are all willing ourselves to have?

It's simple really... you can't know.  You can never TRULY know.

Nobody here can ever answer this question for you... nobody can even slightly reassure you of any of this. 

I'm 100% dead serious when I say that all you need to do to reassure yourself is to continue to have experiences.
What those experiences end up meaning to you is entirely your own doing and has nothing to do with anyone else.

[Astralsuzy]

How alert are you when you ap?   When I am very alert it is like I am physically out of my body but I am spiritually out of my body.   When I am very alert I know it is real.   It is obvious.   When I am not that alert it is a bit like a dream.   I am not aware of what is going on.   I just drift along.   When I wake up I think my experience was not that great.   It did not feel real.    

[Raymond]

Some experienced travellers say there are more than one levels/planes/focus's etc that you 'tune' into. They also have an area ( and it fits my experiences ) called the "training ground" which is pure subconscious.

As a guy called Frank Kepple says, it feels as if your'e in a bubble of 20ft or so with reality moulding and creating itself around you. In other words, your'e exploring in a simulation of your own mind. However there's much more than just that to explore.

I'd take a guess and say 90% of my projections have the feel of being mental simulations.

Another test i read about and experienced for myself. If the environment you are in is static and responding barely at all to your thoughts, then your'e 'somewhere' lol.
If your immediate environment responds directly to your thoughts then, imho, its a mental simulation, which is still amazingly fun with loads to learn from.

hope that helps somewhat

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

I take the view Raymond has. Which is that what you are experiencing is likely a simulation of the subconscious. In other words you have to travel to other deeper realms which don't rely off of your subconscious so much. It takes time. Just keep practicing and you will grow your inner understanding and experience of it more.

[BranStark]

I guess you might want to read the validation thread:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html
Very nice read. There are also many other sources like thia. But you never can be 100% reassured, unless you do it on your own. So do.

[astralm]

You should doubt it, we as humans have a very nasty habit of not doubting and just believing.  Science, history, pretty much anything anyone says we believe as long as we view them as an authority.  Now the truth of the matter, and philosophy has known this for thousands of years, is that nothing can be proved at all, ever.  Even something so basic as physical matter reality being real will never be proven.

In the end you need to evaluate your experiences and decide if it is real for you.  The books paint it as once you see yourself outside of your body you will instantly magical have all your doubts disappear in that one moment.  For some people maybe this is how it is, but probably not for most.  Most of us believe PMR is real because our vast experience in it and the consistency of those experiences.  Of course NPMR is going to also require vast experience before major doubts to it's authenticity can be removed.

[dust8879]

Once again, I'm not trying to be awkward or cynical. Please don't misinterpret this.

If you have never needed reassurance Xanth, you obviously have a better instinctive grasp than I do. I'm working on mine, trying to learn how to know and how to listen.

My point is still very much valid though.

The other night, I projected whilst my wife and I were both sleeping in bed. I found myself in my room (for the first time), it was dark but I could see enough. My wife had gone, the bed and the room were different, the room was slightly different, when I floated out the bedroom door the house was slightly different?

How do we know that we are not just consciously dreaming about experiencing a phenomena we are all willing ourselves to have?

I heard about a study conducted in the states where some people projected and traveled to another site to read information off a card on a table in a house hundreds of miles away. Has anyone else tried this successfully?

I'm not giving up.. Just thought it was a point worth raising. Especially for the people out there who are just starting this journey.  

You can definitely conduct experiments. There's even a section in Campbell's book where he wondered the same thing, if this was all just imagination, until he and a partner both projected separately and reported back to Robert Monroe with almost identical information that couldn't have been obtained elsewhere.

The next time you project, try to set up an experiment. You might have gained enough skill already, so tell your wife to make sure she's the last person downstairs and let her leave a large written message in their kitchen (or any kind of item you won't know about), and then see if you were correct. Attempt this as many times as you feel necessary. Or visit someone you know with their permission at a specific time/place agreed up, and phone them back in the morning to see if their activity correlated with what you observed.

[Volgerle]

I heard about a study conducted in the states where some people projected and traveled to another site to read information off a card on a table in a house hundreds of miles away. Has anyone else tried this successfully?

There's lots of studies on REmote Viewing that showed it works. Lots of studies on NDEs producing validations.

It is also possible by controlled AP/OBE. But difficult, admittedly. Still ... possible.

Sorry for being so short here but it is best you view this site for validations by Astral Projection (entirely please, it is a long read, it would be longer if I'd regularly update it which I don't anymore  ).

http://da-lai.lima-city.de/

[Volgerle]

One more comment: what you experience is reality fluctuations, it is also explained on my little website on the introduction. This is rather normal for many (but not all) projectors.

'Data' from the physical reality is perceived but it mixes up with astral and subconcious realities (thoughts, thought forms, alternative realities, past realities such as post-viewing sth which had been there years ago etc.).

All of this however does not prevent you from gathering enough validation data yourself, e.g. doing a card experiment (I did mine successfully). It is just a matter of training, intent and learning how to 'focus'.

[astromalt]

As always, thank you so much to all of you that have taken the time to add your input into this. It is much appreciated!

The element of doubt I guess, is a completely natural reaction to something that takes the polaroid of "normal" flips it upside down, turns it inside out and sets it on fire!!!

Like all of you here, I am putting a lot of time into trying to better understand the world we live in and I guess, after a certain amount of time, you just start to want definitive answers!!

I've read a lot of posts on this forum... And one of the things that really interests me is how projecting is utilized and applied by so many individuals to achieve so many completely different goals!! You have deeply spiritual persons, you have curious/adventurous ones, you have a mixture of both, you have people searching for truth, you have people who project to purposefully get together in teams to "hunt down" archonic entitities... Its just mind blowing!!!!

I think the point I was trying to make is - How do we know whats real and whats not?? What is real??

I will continue and pursue and hopefully find what it is i'm looking for... Hopefully you all will too!!!!

Be well

[astromalt]

I just wanted to add to this having recently had an experience which has, to great affect, altered my perception on this subject and put any doubts I had firmly where they belong!!

Whilst I wont go into the projection itself, I will say, it was deeply personal, beautiful, amazing and actually more "real" than anything else I have ever experienced. Probably not a coincidence that I received the answer I was looking for.

I had to post this, hopefully as a small encouragement to others who are also just starting to explore this element of reality.

Keep at it!!! If ever there is a lingering doubt, ask as many questions as you need and know that you'll get to where you need to be.

Be well

[Lucidityman]

Hi

But you don t have to find a lable for what may or not occur.. I personally don't care what people define a Ap, Obe, Ld..3Rd eye..   or even question it. The only thing I care about is when is the next time I can do this? and when the next time comes.. what am I going to do differently?.

I know off topic.. I think the one reason people try to define a obe or question if it is to their reality as they know it in the physical world. That's normal. Shows You are normal. The best thing you will encounter when you do it..is how calm,clear,quiet your voice in your head is. Go for it.