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Author Topic: A safe haven for YOU.  (Read 6681 times)
Ashfo
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« on: May 28, 2002, 03:49:00 »

Tyron, I discovered at about the age of 13 (just two years ago) that  I have this huge desire to learn. I'm sure I could become to like school if it was done in a completely different manner, but the style and "tradition" has bogged down the progression of education.

Anyway, I am truly interested in debating or looking at some of your ideas, feelings, theories or whatever and see if they can "hold water". Smiley

I too also believe along the lines of what you have been talking about - I call it the "Awakening" of the human mind, the realisation that we have left our spirtuality behind in our "civilised" society and soon that situation will change. So many things suggest this - writings of old prophets such as Nostradamus, Saint Malachy and others. UFOlogists also suggest through mediums the Pleidians(sp?) talk of our spiritual awakening and that they are currently visiting in a "missionary" fashion.

Post! Smiley

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Fenris
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2002, 08:25:35 »

Dear Tyrone

To quote you

"I will write certain portions and aspects, moreso just descriptions and knowledgable ideas that have been passed down to open and stimulate your knowledge of the beyond."

Not to be impolite but I am confused as to what you are suggesting starting, is this not what we do here already? Please make this (what it is you are suggesting) a little clearer, I can see you are very pasionate about this and I am interested.

Helping others is a most nobel thing, and it botherd me that others would attack you for it. In interest I have read back over your posts and the responses they have drawn. It seems that your opinions on negativity aroused the most conflict. Your opinions in many ways do not conform with what many people here except as truth. This is good because readers get the oportunity to explore a greater range of possibilities. However I believe you have caused this conflict because you do not use phrases such as 'in my opinion', or 'it is just my belief'. Everyone here wants to learn, but none of us want to be preached to. Im not saying that it has been your intention, but your posts come off as you believe that you are right and everyone else is wrong. And obviouly people who have come to their own opinions will not apreciate this. I dont mean to come off as rude, this is how i see it as an observor.

regards
David

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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2002, 08:25:35 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Tyrone
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2002, 04:24:33 »

Fenris; What I ment by that long winded sentence Smiley was just that there are some key ideas that stimulate your subconcious into opening up.  Kind of like a plant growing, but needs a little extra to flower.  Your sub/superconcious can be the most powerful tool that you can ever hope to learn to use.  If you think about it, you really use only a tiny percentage of your brain while incarnate here.  I believe the average is about 4-5% and a genuis is around 9%..  However that is only your conciousness, and you sub/superconcious is using nearly the remainder.  Hence the dreams, like a professor trying to comunicate to a kindergardener, through drawing pictures and pointing.. It is nothing more than finding a way to communicate..

Yes it is unfortunate that someone would wage an attack on me, however I was told it was more involuntary.  Along the lines of "Oh, he's so pompus, he doesn't even know evil exists, I hope he gets it good when it comes..".  That is why I won't address that person, I guess I just didn't realize how many eyes these posts fall before.  Anyways what these people don't realize is that I have been battling with this, and I have found my safe haven, and I will never again be tourmented like I have, that I promis you.  To boot, everytime I get this little nuance of phsychic attack, I rise above it, and I rise more each time it happens, thats how we grow!  Apart from that, knowledge is what expands the soul, and that is what we must seek.

I am gathering my thoughts of where to start, and I will post quite soon.

tyrone



 
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Tyrone
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2002, 04:04:59 »

Dear Friends,

I will likely strike some contreversy, so please try to keep somewhat of clean slate.  I have been consulting my higher level friends in an attempt to gain some type of direction or starting point with this.  I am so curious at how this will go, as there seems to be a bit a buzz about this (I do not necessarly mean amongst the posters).  Please do not blindly accept anything I say, validate it within yourself, you will know and you will resonate to your own truth.

Before I begin, I must first give much thanx to Sylvia Browne and all of her dear friends as well as Robert Bruce who seem to serve as great 'outfitters' for this grand journey of ours, my hats off to you!

What I would like to talk about today is that of our body and soul relationship.  If you consult or study any of the major religions, or even ancient culture beliefs (ranging form the Mayans, Aztech-Incas, Babylonians, Mongolians, Sumerians, Atlantians, Lumerians, Natives.. and on and on) you will find that every single one of those believes that the soul, or conciousness, survives death.  Meaning ofcourse that when the body burns out, then the lights do not go out.  Now those of you who successfully project and look and see your body, it is quite powerful to see it so inanimate.  However when you do project, your complete soul does not release from your body, its more of a shift of awareness, but nonetheless very powerful.  

So what is the body then?  Well, for one thing, it is NOT YOU.  When you look into the mirror and see your physiological self, that is not your true visage.  That is not what you look like on the other side (home).  Its just a vehicle, its just a shell that you temporairly fill to serve out or experience or some specific aspect of your life, that most of you are searching for now.  Now, your physiological body has abvious gentics that are linked to your parents and their parents and so forth.  Now that is still not you, its just your body and it carries with it certain minor dispositions that are all much pre-planned for your purpose.  

So who are you then?  Unless you believe that everything in your mind and your entire essence is and was totaly created by a brief moment of intimacy between your parents..  Why are two brothers not the exact same person then?  Would that not make sence?  How can you have such major differences between people who share physiological genetics?  Just like if you see two same model cadillacs on the road, they are likely driving completely indipendent of each other.

Now we get into 'soul' genetics.  If everything was created from a beginning then so have we been.  (note; This is only an explanation tailored for our finite minds, our meer 4-9% brain activity.)  I guess there was always an alwaysness, and always will be..  Nothing ever get anihilated, physics remeber?  Energy only changes states, nothing is ever destroyed (e=mc2)..

So as our souls were created, there must have been a creator..  Or something from which we came forth.  Now I won't touch too deeply into this yet, but I will tickle on it.  If you look at nature, which serves as a beautiful microcosm of the world beyond (at least surperimposed on this planet) you notice that everything that is created or given form, there is always a need for duality.  There is never one indipendent thing that creates something on its own.  Everything is dependent on another thing to birth.  Wouldn't it be somewhat of an incestual though that one thing produces on its own?

I am drifting off of my original plan a bit, so if we are not our bodies and are mearly occupying them for a short amount of time, then that would indicate that this is unlikely to be our first and only life.  If its not the first, then that means that there have been many before and in all likelyhood will be more to follow.  

I will post more in a short time, but please I welcome anyone to poke holes through this..

tyrone.

-if you walk with the light, you will be free of darkness-

 
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Grenade01
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2002, 05:16:32 »

I remember this guy Zyrill on spiritweb who thought he was "stimulating" people to think, but all he really did was cause trouble, and ultimately get the board shut down.
So far I have like most of your posts, and you seem like a good person
I just hope you remember this is a place for sharing ideas, not trying to force others to think like you
Id hate to see another zyrill appear because that was a mess
=) Keep posting im very interested

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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2002, 05:16:32 »



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Adam
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2002, 07:20:24 »

The way I see it, and the way I have come to understand it is, is that at some point or another, we have chosen to become seperate from God - we chose to forget. We did this to grow and evolve, to learn. And to learn, give and receive (and remember) Unconditional Love. Spirituality is really just remembering.

The truth is so very simple really...don't get bogged down in the details. Think big, think bigger.......and then think bigger again Smiley


...but, this is my path I'm travelling. I'm learning to respect every other person's path as their own way back to God, and every other person's truth as their own.

Pay attention to your feelings and *feel* them, don't just think about them. Release self-judgement, and know the truth. Love thyself. Come to know your Higher Self, and know you *are* them.

I tend to just chuck this stuff out as the thoughts come to me, but as long as you see what I'm *trying* to say, that's all that matters. I'm learning moment by moment, so chances are, the things I say will change, and grow clearer. And it's harder on a BB, because the energy just isn't present like it is in a face-to-face conversation, or even over the phone.

Adam

 
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Grenade01
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2002, 15:14:29 »

Nah Adam, I think your energy comes across quite well with that post, if one listens for it...
I agree with you for the most part.
I think my girlfriend thinks I'm blasphemous when I say that I think we are part of, and from God, and not only "made in his image".  But whatever, everyone has their own beliefs and I'm sure the most of the are true for the most part.

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Tyrone
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2002, 22:32:15 »

grenade;  Sorry if it seems like I'm preaching, thats the last thing in the world that I believe in, so stop me if I do.  To me it just seemed as though there was some good information being exchanged and alot of people really had some valuable imput.  However it seemed to have no beginning, and very few people took the time to explain it in more detail, as so more people could catch on to what was being said.  My whole idea was just to introduce a topic or two and have more people contributing, a completely open ended discussion, no rights no wrongs, just a main direction.  I'm not taking charge whatsoever, just trying to introduce an idea to some inspired thinkers.

adam;  you hit the mark exactly.  All the greatest people that graced this earth (Mohammad, Sidhartha, Christ, ..) have all shared that same message, simplicity is beautiful, and if you are like children you will understand.  As a society living in the 'modern' age we really tend to overcomplicate our views and explanations, and have thus fallen into great straits.  Just look at the 'antidepressant' market..  All my life I was trying to tell people, look at the bigger picture, then go bigger, and bigger... What happens is you begin to slightly separate and elevate above this earthly plane.  You become less attached to materialistic possessions, as you realize they are oh so transient!  Its only the loved ones that you never lose.   Its kind of like when you are driving and you are sitting shotgun with someone, and you see the whole story, you hear the swearing, you see the little things people do to tick each other off, you see the hostile exchanges.  Now if you are in highrise and you are watching traffic going by, it seems so quiet, so simple, so like it has its own little place in the city...  then you zoom out some more, and you see...  You see the bigger the picture, the bigger the understanding.

The idea of us being part of God, is/was the idea behind my first topic.  As I explained our physiological body has genetics and ancestors through which certain characteristics are passed down, pointy nose, blue eyes...  However we only occupy that body for a short time, so we are not that body.  If we are not that body, then we have different genetics then our body.  If our soul goes beyond this plane/world after the exit, then that means  that we truelly are from another plane/world to begin with.  

With this we are made in the image of God.  Being made in His image, means that we have His genetics.  Now, think about this, to have divine genetics, means that we really are little parts of the great God.  Right?  As your son is not you, but is defenitely from you, so you could say he's a little you...  Same thing.  That is the most wondrous and beautiful thing that one can ever come upon.  It means we are a complete and finished little part and parcels of the Great creator.    

However this is only half the story, there needs to be a duality in order for a birthing proccess.  Right?  Why is it that in the last couple of thousand years we have gotten so disconnected with this idea?  You see it in nature everywhere, not to mention every other ancient civilization gave worship to some form of deity??  Is it perhaps the patriarchal rule that was instilled since that time..  Have we lost the female principle, or is it still poking through somewhere..  Mother Earth, Mother Nature, how about Mother Mary...  could these be any indication of a matriarch??  Isn't the ultimate law of nature and physics and human nature as simple as the idea behind balance?  

Any ideas, anyone?

tyrone

-live and learn, die and know.-

 
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Grenade01
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2002, 00:41:24 »

=)

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Adam
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2002, 03:15:40 »

I think it's safe to say that it's because mankind got wrapped up in the ability to think, and believed that the mind was his greatest assest. Man forgot the heart, and the pure simplicity inherent in life, and became absorbed in the details. Oh, the details! So much complexity, the *infinite*!

But, as that so amazingly brilliant saying goes, "The devil is in the details" Smiley

Adam

PS. Grenade - true, the energy certainly is there, you can sense it whilst reading the message, but it's just not as open and flexible and *spontaneous* as a face-to-face conversation is.
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bitsmart
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2002, 04:02:53 »

I'd like to share a little anecdote regarding the energy of posts on a bulletin board. I've been doing energetic and psychic development intensively for about a year. I understand I've had these abilities all along in some form, but they were definitely, at least partially, dormant. A few months ago someone on the Active Psy board on the Delphi forums posted asking someone to try reading them.

Now, here's the tricky part. I'm an adventurous sort of person, and I decided to do so completely on a whim. It sounded preposterous to me at the time, but I tried not to pass judgement. I simply carried this out with belief that I could do it. You must understand, I was only getting inklings of clairvoyant/telepathic ability at this time, so I really didn't know what I was doing, or so I thought. I had never met this person in question, didn't know where they lived or what kind of life they led. I didn't know their name or what they looked like. All I knew of this person was their online nick and the contents of the posts they had made to the board.

I closed my eyes and concentrated, right there in front of the computer, trying to pick up something on this person I was recalling by assembling all the info from their posts and repeating their online nick. Five images flashed briefly in my mind's eye, that came with impressions. I posted to the board exactly what I experienced, and only then did I suggest that what I recieved was probably way off. I got an email from this person saying that I was very accurate, and that she was impressed (she had been psychic her whole life.)

In short, the energy I got from her posts is what allowed me to pull something from the collective consciousness. People may underestimate the way communication works, even online. Please take this into consideration when you make posts, you leave traces of your energy like a paper trail or pieces of bread everywhere you go and with every communication you make.

In regards to the topic of this thread, I like where I sense this is going Tyrone. I see references to the higher self, and I've been searching for more information about this. I thought through meditation and patience that I would eventually come to understand this, even a little bit, but I still feel like I'm grasping for something, though I do feel higher forces at work in my life every day. I eagerly await what you have to say. I have my beliefs about the way things are, but my beliefs are very general, loose, and holistic, and as I try to keep an open mind, they are always changing. My beliefs are what helps me stay balanced concerning things I don't know; in other words, all I have is what I know, and what I believe.

In this coming time of change, a lot of beliefs will be challenged by things that will come to pass. My suggestion for people would be to keep an open mind, to trust in the divine plan, and to question your motivation for everything you do: are you motivated by love, or fear? This is one of the dualities Tyrone speaks of, similar to, but different than, good and evil. I don't belief in good and evil, but I believe that people act out of love, or fear. This is evident all around us in our lives, if we look for it. What humans need to do is to start examining what motivates them, and how it might affect others.

Though we are capable of such beauty, and yet such atrocity, my love for this planet grows every day, and I know with every bit of my soul that things will work themselves out. This has given me a new freedom and a greater respect for many things in my life. I wish everyone the best, thanks.

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Grenade01
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2002, 04:16:50 »

Hey bitsmart:
What color am I thinking of riiiiiiiiiight NOW.

Hahah Just kidding
well actually not really..I visualized a color and repeated it a few times
=)
I know im probably insulting your intelligence (because thats not what your talking about) but give it a shot anyway hahah

I wanna see if you get it

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Tyrone
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2002, 02:32:16 »

I believe that one of the largest hurdles for man is to simply think and act for himself.  Nobody really wants to trust and believe in themselves anymore.  People simply want their lives rulled.  Its easier.  Its too easy to go out and 'sin' all week long, then go to church on sunday and repent.  You think saying the hail Mary five times will wipe that slate clean??  Just like with most of the physiological nature, things tend to take the path of least resistance.  

I completely salute those that go out and think for themselves, and do and act in what they belive in.  Even if you don't find the ultimate truth around the first corner, you still find a truth, and this truth will be your stepping stone..  

Bitsmart; I know exactly what you are about.  I really do.  Most people here do not realize that spirituality=psychi, which of course is nothing more then the ability to discern the truth.  To find and seek the truth, and to gear your life towards acting your truth, not living a hypocrisy, is really the path towards the recognition of your own soul.  To realize and recognize what you are and where you are from, and what you are here to do...  everything else such as projecting, and straight psychi seems to almost be like a plesant side effect that accompanies that knowledge.  Robert Bruce said it best when he was spoke of the chakra development and this higher knowledge attainment, he said paraphrased "You will just seem to know things..".  That is exactly it.

 Everyone resonates and posses an electrical emanation.  (just like an electric motor would produce this..)  However this particular emanation speaks and projects everything about you.  It shows little spurts of moods and feelings and emotions that flick through, and it shows the troubled areas, as in health issues.  The so called 'healers' that are, are nothing more than people able to feel this, and patch up your particular energy spot that is depleated or weakend with their own.  Nobody can see this, but you can feel it, taste it, and even smell it.  Bitsmart, I think you are tunning in to this, and at times are able to get a good reading even via internet.  The thing with the early stages of this development, is to simply trust and take it as it comes, sometimes is doesn't, and sometimes it comes like a ton of bricks.  Its too bad, but that is something that is nearly impossible to control.  So if someone is chanting blue, and are looking at a green type poster by their computer, then its hard to figure it out...

I would very much like to take a moment to warn a few people.  There seems to be an awful lot of ritualistic type of belief surfacing.  Going back several thousand years, there were what were called Wiccas, deriving from white, ie white magic.  They spoke and proffessed the femenine principle and the duality of creation.  They used the power within themseves, and the ability to call upon a higher order of 'goodness' to create miracles.  However with the other gnostic groups and followers they were persecuted and thrown into lions dens for their simplistic, logical, and very powerful beliefs.  This of course was due to the patriarchal rule coming into full bloom.  Now someone wanting to eliminate the femenine principle could only due so by turning most everyone else against it.  With this, they proffessed the wiccas to be nothing more then witches who had sex with the devil..?!  Can you imagine that?  What mental midgets would slurr out such profanity.  Nonetheless hundreds upon thousands of herbalists and holistic healers were burned at the stake for their knowledge of the divine.

Since that time there were several other groups that tried to follow in those same footsteps, and bring forth the ultimate truth.  However this knowledge seemed to be so esoteric that it was hidden and kept from the main populace.  Weather it was through tibetan monks hidding these writting in their jars and caves, or through the hidden dead sea scrolls, this knowledge was fairly inaccessible to the commoner.   Now what happened is this information of course fell on several different ears, some not having the same pure goals as the others.  Just like there are bad apples in every bushel, there are entities that are not the 'purest of heart'.  Once this belief is sprung into action there is a certain type of almost strength or power that accompanies it.  That is why, you must always audit yourself to see if your ego is not out of whack.  

To shorten this story, like most earthbounds, give them a little power, and they will show you how strong they are.  Well so went the spiritualism, to the darkness.  Certain groups were formed that openly proffessed to be witches and warlocks, all in the name of their poor ancestors that were so wrongfully persecuted.  What a pickle, because these new groups, really have no conotation to be at all pertaining to the white side of things.  Can you see their sales pitch?  They follow that same esoterionism except in the form of an occult group.  Most people who join these types of 'wiccans' have little knowledge of the main stem that this sprung forth from.  The main fault with following anything of this sort is that of going and 'blindly believing' in something that is outside of yourself.  Everything is within you, all your questions and answers, everything.  You need to look no where and to no one to find your answers.  That and the attitude of 'hurting' people, meaning and intending them harm.  They will ofcourse justify this somehow amongst themselves, but absolutely NO ONE can ever act out any harm on anyone.  That is wrong.  The INTENT of your actions is to be judged.  That is a very particular point that more people should realize.  The actions themselves cannot be judged, but intent.. always.

tyrone

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bitsmart
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2002, 05:06:16 »

quote:
Originally posted by Grenade01:
Hey bitsmart:
What color am I thinking of riiiiiiiiiight NOW.

Hahah Just kidding
well actually not really..I visualized a color and repeated it a few times
=)
I know im probably insulting your intelligence (because thats not what your talking about) but give it a shot anyway hahah

I wanna see if you get it

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My first impression was red, after I cleared my mind I got blue. Heh, a psychic can never give just one answer, that would be too specific. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

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cainam_nazier
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2002, 08:14:06 »

I have always had a scientific mind.  I believe that in all things there is a logical order of things.  That every thing can and will eventually be proven.  It is that for many things we do not have the technology to do so.  I have never been a follower of organized religion or a religion of any kind.  Darwin all the way.  
     I personally do not believe that there is some or any higher entity that started this whole thing.  I not do believe or feel to be a part of anything but the human race.  I follow very simply what Popeye said, "I am what I am and that's all that I am."  I guess,  largly I see too many holes in religion in general, there is no one that explains it all.  That and I have never had any experience that made me feel like there was any basis for religions.
    I have/do believe how ever that every thing that is spiritual/super natural/psi related is possible by every one.  Not because we are a part of some thing greater but because we are capable of learning.  A person can learn any thing intelligence is not a factor it can be taught.  I do not believe that any one is simply incapable of learning it is just how ever that they do not want to.

Tyrone-
"I believe that one of the largest hurdles for man is to simply think and act for himself. Nobody really wants to trust and believe in themselves anymore. People simply want their lives rulled. Its easier. Its too easy to go out and 'sin' all week long, then go to church on sunday and repent. You think saying the hail Mary five times will wipe that slate clean?? Just like with most of the physiological nature, things tend to take the path of least resistance. "

    This is true people need to start thinking for themselves and taking responsability for themselves.  And yes I do believe that the average person likes to have a preset of rules to follow, it is easier.   It is because of this that I think religion started in the first place.  To tell people how to live.   But I do not think that it is because there is a creator.

  Every thing I know, every thing I can do is because I had to learn it.  I believe it possible because we can have that kind of control over ourselves, our bodies, our minds.

I am starting to rant so I will stop now.  I just don't see it that way.



David Rogalski
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« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2002, 23:22:07 »

cainam; I just want to clearify a couple of things.  Organized religion failled because it became organized...  When you organize something you take it away from the people, and it becomes a business.

When I mentioned creation I really had to be delicate with it, as there was no beginning, there was just an alwaysness.  Only the finite mind needs to cling to the idea that there was a beginning, but there was not.  People will believe in infinity from now on, but they cannot accept to have allways been.  

So if you do not believe in a creator(s), do you believe in a static omnipotent force that holds everything together?  ..in part, where does your energy come from, or the energy force within your pencil?  If you believe that there is some major force holding us static and together (whats to keep our molecules from flying apart?) then just dig a little deeper..

*did you know, that this is the only planet that has organized religion??

tyrone

 
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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2002, 08:01:56 »

Tyrone-
"When I mentioned creation I really had to be delicate with it, as there was no beginning, there was just an alwaysness. Only the finite mind needs to cling to the idea that there was a beginning, but there was not. People will believe in infinity from now on, but they cannot accept to have allways been. "

I do not believe that we have always been here.(big bang)  And I do  not believe that man was created or has always been here.  (evolution)  But I believe in the possability that we, humans, have been aware considerably longer than what is generally known.  This being recent discoveries that have been made with in the last 5 years.  That keep finding things that date back long before what was orginally thought.


"So if you do not believe in a creator(s), do you believe in a static omnipotent force that holds everything together? ..in part, where does your energy come from, or the energy force within your pencil? If you believe that there is some major force holding us static and together (whats to keep our molecules from flying apart?) then just dig a little deeper.."


Simply life.  Life creates life in all forms.  I do not believe it was created but rather it just happened one day.  Some thing managed to crawl out of the primortal ooz.  Maybe we came to be because of a meteor hitting the earth bringing with it the first cells that became life on this planet.  Spontaneous combution of a sorts perhaps.  The growing and splitting of cells creates energy in a form and hence the energy that binds all life.


David Rogalski
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2002, 10:54:56 »

Greetings all,

   cainam_nazier wrote  ] [quote
Simply life. Life creates life in all forms. I do not believe it was created but rather it just happened one day. Some thing managed to crawl out of the primortal ooz. Maybe we came to be because of a meteor hitting the earth bringing with it the first cells that became life on this planet. Spontaneous combution of a sorts perhaps. The growing and splitting of cells creates energy in a form and hence the energy that binds all life.


 I used to prescribe to the Darwin way of things, but have since changed my way of thinking. The reason I changed my thinking, the "wasp plant'. Well, I think it's called a wasp plant. A few years ago I was watching a documentary on plants and they were talking about how different plants pollinate. They show a close up of the stemen ?(the centre of the flower) , then they show a picture of this wasp that is the only thing that can pollinate this flower. The stenem was a near exact replica of the actual wasp. So I'm looking at it and the what came first ?, chicken or egg conundrum came into play.
         Did the plant look at the wasp and change to suit,or did the wasp change for the plant?. Now darwins theory works inregards to things like Blind cave fish, there transparent, it's supposed that these fish were trapped in caves for a long time with no light and adapted to suit.
          I now hold a Darwinistic/Creationist at some point, view. People ask the question sometimes, if you were to die and allowed to ask one question to which the answer will be given,what would be the question. My question , "whats the deal with the wasp plant and the wasp". I've got an idea that when my time comes the question would be of little importance, but if it's not,  I hope i would be at the stage were I could comprehend the answer.  

Regads  steve



 
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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2002, 17:08:03 »

Hey Tyrone,
Before you enlist to enlighten our minds, could you please introduce yourself formally... What do you fo dor a living?  IN a nutshell, what are your beliefs?  Where are you from?  What ethnicity are you?  Call me crazy orold fashioned, but I like to know my teachers.

-Dan

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We shall not cease from our exploration, and at the end of all our exploring, we shall arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2002, 18:03:05 »

I also wanted to mention to David ("Cainam") that I think you are fooling yourself if you don't believe in a higher being.  I think if we look around at the organization of the earth, or even at our own physical bodies, and have in a basic understanding of the laws of thermodynamics, etc. one can logically assume that there is an organizer...

If one walks down a beach how long would he have to walk before stumbling upon a fine swiss watch?  Would a fine Swiss watch ever simply organize itself out of the sand with time?  I think not.  Not even in a million yeas, nor a billion years, nor a trillion years... How, then, do trillion cell organisms like us just appear from blue green algae?  

The second law of thermodynamics states that all things run down, in other words everything naturally becomes less organized with time.  Nature fights against evolution...even the most die hard darwinian will admit that nothing in evolutionary theory can explain this.  The more physicists and biologists delve into the questions of existence, they find that there must be some organizing force or energy.  Soon they might even come up with a revolutionary theory that involves....don't jump out of your seat!....GOD!  What a revelation!

fides quaerens intellectum
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We shall not cease from our exploration, and at the end of all our exploring, we shall arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2002, 23:32:36 »

"If one walks down a beach how long would he have to walk before stumbling upon a fine swiss watch? Would a fine Swiss watch ever simply organize itself out of the sand with time? I think not. Not even in a million yeas, nor a billion years, nor a trillion years... How, then, do trillion cell organisms like us just appear from blue green algae? "

    No naturally something like that would need to be made.  However that which is alive and functioning does not need that complex of a creation.  You look around nature and everything seems to adapt for a perpose.  This is simply seem in all life.   There became an over abundance of some kind of fuel (food) or what ever and some thing starts to minipulate it and by doing so starts to change itself.  Evolution takes its course and a few thousand generations later you end up with some thing that is able to manipulate the fuel to a far greater extent than its predisessors.  


"The second law of thermodynamics states that all things run down, in other words everything naturally becomes less organized with time. Nature fights against evolution...even the most die hard darwinian will admit that nothing in evolutionary theory can explain this. "

    I believe this very simple to explain.  Every thing will eventually out live its usefullness.  This being as a form of life evolves to manipulate its food source eventually it becomes so good at it there becomes an over abundance of that life form.  Then some thing else sees it, or a by product of it as fuel and learns to manipulate it and grow.  The chain starts over.  Or even they become so heavily over populated that it simply comes to pass that there is no more fuel or food.  Unless that form of life learns to adapt if capable then it will die out, and hence become no more.  

    We as humans have probably severly out lived or usefullness but given our ability to adapt we have not perished and continue to thrive.  This being because we can and do evolve and continue to do so.  But unless we learn a better methode we too will eventually become much more over populated than we are.  We will end up chewing up ever last bit of the remaining natural resources and we will perish or be replaced by some thing else.  Evolution in full cycle.



David Rogalski
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2002, 09:30:54 »

I disagree wholeheartedly. In regards to the Swiss watch theory, if you want to say, and I quote, "...that which is alive and functioning does not need that complex of a creation" then I guess that I am not going to be able to persuade you.  How can you say that a living organism, a creation so complex that we still don't understand how it works nor how to create it, is easier to form than a watch then I think you are percieving reality in an entorely different way than myself.  We, as humans, along with all other living life forms, are MIRACLES!  Humans can procreate, but even in our most advanced labratories we cannot create life int he true sense of the word.  We cannot even come close to creating AI in computers.  


fides quaerens intellectum
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We shall not cease from our exploration, and at the end of all our exploring, we shall arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T.S. Elliot
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2002, 10:24:35 »

Ahh, but how long did it take the human to figure out how to make a watch?  Or a computer?  It is only a matter of time.  Just because we can not do some thing now does not make it impossible.  Eventually we will evovle and we will be able to do this and then it will be common knowladge.  If you told some one 100 years ago that we could fly in space they would have thought you crazy.  And now it is done.  People used to think that if you went more than 25 MPH in a car you would turn into to liquid.  At that time they understood less.  And now wecan travel hundreds of miles per hour. We learn more of the human body every day.  That is why we can live the way we do now.  Medicine, surgery, vent machines, artificial hearts, prostetic limbs, the more we learn the closer we become to being able to create life not just sustain it.  We know enough about the nervis system that we can re-attach severed limbs but it was impossible 10 years ago.

But I can tell things are starting to get touchy so let me say this.  Yes it is possible that I am completely and totally wrong, but you must accept that it is possible that so are you, and that it is possible that WE are all wrong.  This all being the wonder of abstract thought.

Now let us step back and see what else Tyrone has in store for us.  Well Tyrone you wanted to stimulate thought and debate.  Well done.


David Rogalski
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2002, 18:57:26 »

Don't worry friend, things aren't getting touchy, I promise.  It takes a lot ot get me frustrated or angry, I can assure you that.  Anyway, I hear what you are saying.  If there's a believer in human potential it's me!  I believe man can do all things, there is no limit to our potential...but everything we do is through the power, knowledge and light of the Source, which is God.  We can become like God and that's the main reason we are here in this life.  I too believe in natural processes, but I believe that's the way God works.  I don't want to get into my theories of evolution, Adam and Eve, etc. but I do know that God lives, it's not faith, but knowledge.  

Like the line below, after faith comes knowledge...

fides quaerens intellectum
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We shall not cease from our exploration, and at the end of all our exploring, we shall arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T.S. Elliot
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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2002, 05:15:09 »

Like the line below, after faith comes knowledge...

fides quaerens intellectum


I was wondering what that ment.  I noticed too that a lot of people seem to know latin, or use latin quotes.  I never cared for the language myself.


David Rogalski
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