Calling Angels for "perimeter defence" during AP

[kakkarot]

well, when you leave your body a demon can possess you because you aren't there to defend yourself. but, a demon would have a much easier time of possessing you when you are awake because you aren't as conscious of the spiritual when you are in your physical body.

the "Church" of human make is merely a religion and is of course fallible (spelling?). the Church that God has created is not found in a building of in a denomination, is not defined by doctrine, and is certainly not governed by the whims and stupidity of mankind. But nor is God's Church found by any who God does not want to find it; primarily because you have to understand the Church of God (the "bride of Christ") is made up of God's chosen people, not some buildings. Not everyone who claims to be one of God's chosen is, and not everyone who claims they aren't God's chosen isn't. but this is all irrelevant isn't it?  

"The Church instilled the idea of praying and calling on angels to defend ones self and ones house against demonic attacs". that is one messed up church then. try calling on God's protection, and he will protect you in whatever way you will need it best; if he chooses to send angels then he will, if he chooses to give you strength when you need it then he will, etc. But have faith when you pray, and most importantly if you decide to call on God for help, don't turn around the next minute and start dissing Him of anything that claims to be with Him. while not everything that claims to be with Him IS with Him, it will be up to God to deal with those who misuse His name.

sidenote: i have been to one church where the preacher actually advocated to use one's own power to heal diseases instead of asking God for help. The "preacher" actually said to not bother to call on God, but to do it yourself. Now that is someone who i would never say is a Christian.

~kakkarot
(boy that's long. whew.  :p  )

Secret of Secrets

[Person]

Of all the OBE'ers you've met, have any of them suddenly changed personality one day, mumbling dark Satanic language?  No.  Did you ever actually get coals for Christmas when you were bad one year?  No.  See the direct relation?
First, there are no demons.  Only lost souls trapped in their own self-despair.  Ghosts are the closest thing to the concept of a hellish demon, so when a ghost story comes up the church likes to pretend it's Satan to gain more believers.  Other than ghosts, Ive seen no spiritual proof of Christianity whatsoever.  Can inner strength really be 'given' or protection be 'granted' at the whims of a powerhungry Lord?
Ironically, calling on angels does work.  Not because some Archangel will hear your call and come to rescue you, but because everyone has personal guardian spirits.  Almost every single religion there is includes belief in angels or personal spirit guides.  Just because there is an angel sighting somewhere does not confirm any Christian teachings.  
As for posessions, if it were possible for a bodiless spirit to suddenly take over while you're gone, it would be equally possible for two living OBE people to switch bodies.  Since we 'go somewhere' while deep in dreaming, and our consciousness ceases to exist while in deep sleep, any of these times would leave us open to possession by anyone.  Again, how many possessed people have you met?  If a spirit ever talks through a person, its because the person let them, and can stop anytime.
For protection, just imagine a shield of shimmering white light.  That's plenty.  Try to OBE and enjoy yourself without worrying.  If you still believe in a loving, fatherly god that allows His children and worshippers to live in fear and be posessed by demons at any time, you might want to rethink your religion.

-Person

[James S]

Thankyou, Kakkarot and Person.
Interesting both of you coming from completely different perspectives, yet very nicely meeting in the middle and pointing out what a load of crap can be put forth by people under the guise of being "the word of God".

Well I think that little bit of religious propaganda is dead and buried (and won't be resurrected)!

Thanks for reminding me of the white light Person...what a beautifully anonymous screen name. Not suggestive of anything and doesn't let people try guess what your personality is like. Umm...where was I...oh yes, white light.

I use to use white light when I meditated in the mornings when I got to work early at a place that I didn't really like working at. I used to provide technical support for a computer repair company, so I had people complaining all day because this or that didn't work, and I had to work with one guy that made the TV character Becker look really cheerful. You can only take so much sarcasm, anger, cynicism and conspiracy theories in one day!

Anyway, I practiced drawing white light to myself when I meditated, formed it around me like a bubble and then hardened the surface of that bubble. Its amazing what can bounce of a shield like that, and I actually found far less in the way of negative energy coming my way at all.

Funny how I'd forgotten about that, I suppose because my work situation is so much better now I don't tend to think about needing a defence. Glad you reminded me.

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[kakkarot]

umm. person: are you sure you aren't confusing some things as being other things. sure, there are some spirits that pose are dark and powerful beings, but angels (and fallen angels called demons) are far more powerful than most spirits and can do different things as well.

"Other than ghosts, Ive seen no spiritual proof of Christianity whatsoever. Can inner strength really be 'given' or protection be 'granted' at the whims of a powerhungry Lord". How does one prove Christianity? all christianity is, is people who follow the Christ. if you mean the "doctrines" of christianity, then you should maybe go to a church that actually IS Godly (unfortunatly these are rare and aren't neccessarily easily distinguished from the b.s. churches). And yes, inner strength can be "given" by a diety; as can outer protection and strength.

"If a spirit ever talks through a person, its because the person let them, and can stop anytime". I have to disagree with this as well. Most people are weak spiritually and can be forced to do things while posessed. however, as many spiritual leaders and guides (as well as Mr. Bruce) will point out, the biggest advantage a demon has over a person is when the person doesn't know it (or when the person doesn't believe in demons. after all, if you don't believe in them, how can they affect you?). so the reason you don't find many posessed people is: A) when someone does become posessed and does something, every one else plays it off as schitzophrenia (spelling?) or insanity or something like that, and B) it is to the demons advantage to NOT blatently take over a body and start spouting off demonic things that will let everyone around know that that person is posessed (after all, if someone told you they were posessed by a demon you now know there is a demon to oust).

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[James S]

I see then that spiritually weak or vulnerable people can be easily influenced by negative spirits just as mentally weak or vulnerable people can be influenced by disreputable salesmen and con artists. Demons (I know in this forum they're often referred to as negs, but the term demons works for me) like con artists tend to use subtle subversive tactics to gain control. Someone who is mentally or spiritually alert should be able to recognise this and defend themselves quite easily. Both demons and con artists tend to be cowards when confronted.

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[kakkarot]

"Someone who is mentally or spiritually alert should be able to recognise this and defend themselves quite easily. Both demons and con artists tend to be cowards when confronted": yes, but you should not confuse good manipulation and tactics with cowardice. demons choose to remain unknown (for the most part) because it is easier to entice people that way, not because they are weak and cowardly. "The greatest lie ever told is the one that deviates only slightly from the truth."

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[Qball]

Regardless of what occult/new age stuff you are doing you should call to your guardian angels and guardian spirits before you start to meditate,astral project etc.
Use symbols of protection at the very least.

[Tom]

There is a method for calling on angels for protection, for clearing out negative influences before doing something else like creating a shield. Why shield the negative influences in with yourself? I read that this method can be completed in ten minutes when it is learned. It is the LBRP, lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram.

[kakkarot]

!!!!OPINION!!!! i think the point of meditation should be to clear out all the good and bad thoughts and emotions, and return you to a state of neutrality of spirit. that way, you can choose which way to go from there without the biases of anything but logic, wisdom, and insanity    .

QBall: "Regardless of what occult/new age stuff you are doing you should call to your guardian angels and guardian spirits before you start to meditate,astral project etc.
Use symbols of protection at the very least." what if you don't have guardians, and don't use magic (or symols of power, if you want to distinguish it from magical practice)? well, i guess this is a stupid question since there really is only one thing you can do: Protect your Self, by yourself.

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[James S]

Tom has a good point about clearing out negs before shielding yourself, otherwise it would be like Sylvester locking himself in the room with Tweety after Tweety had drunk the Hyde formula (one for the Looney Tunes fans out there).

As part of a meditation routine I've practiced I visualise drawing white light into myself every time I breathe in, and expel any darkness within me by visualising blackness leaving my body when I exhale. I keep doing this until the black turns to grey, then grey to white. At this point I feel clensed then go about creating a shield around me.

Tom, tell me more about the LBRP routine. I've never had much desire to look at using pentagrams in any way, but as they're widley used in many pagan practices they must hold some power over the negative.

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[Tom]

It is something of which I have only learned the name. I wish I could tell you more about it, but the name is enough to initiate a web search. At this point I cannot even sort good information from bad. It is a new direction for me.

[James S]

Hi all,

I'd like some opinions here if anyone has thoughts on the following:

Time to put a lot of theory and ground prepararation to work. I've looked at Astral Projection for some time, but unfortunately have a few pre-conceived ideas that might hinder me when it comes to "lift-off". These ideas are from my years in Christian churches (here on referred to as The Church).

Firstly, The Church fully frowns on Astral Projection. This incence sniffing hippie new-age cult stuff is the deception of the devil and can only come to no good. (Aplogies to those who still regularly attend churches and think that these words are a bit strong, but I've attended churches of 4-5 different denominations and they've all shared the same opinions.) The Church actively discorages AP with "the fact" that with you out of your body, this is an open invitation for demons to come in and posses you. What I've read on this site so far seems to go against that idea. I'm reasonably comfortable that The Church is being a bit naive and melodromatic here, but I'd like to know what others in this forum think. Is this a scare tactic kind of like "if you don't eat your dinner the boogeyman will come and get you"?

Along these lines also, The Church instilled the idea of praying and calling on angels to defend ones self and ones house against demonic attacs. This is something that I think actually has some credence, though I now tend to believe that we create a lot of negs ourselves with our thoughts, words and actions. I don't really think I can ask angels to protect me from myself.

I've read through the articles on PPSD, and NEW and OBEs, as well as quite a bit of literature from libraries on the subjects. Now I want to do a little of my own practical research, but would like to know fi the idea of calling for angelic defence while I explore has any merit.


James S
(Fate amenable to change)