The Lord is my Light

[Two Bears]

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I am a Christian and I am proud to be a Christian.  Jesus the Christ is my Lord and Savior.  He is also my protector.  When I feel any negative or low vibratory presence, or when I am attacked directly, I
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Hello Daniel; my brother:

Since you are "christian"; I pray that you never encounter some of the beings I have; because the "christian" form of exorcism is confrontation, and aggression.

Some of The entities I have encountered would tear you limb from limb if you tried confrontation and aggression.

I fail to understand what happened to "christianity" since the time of the man you call Jesus.

Before you try the current "christian" method of exorcism; I suggest that you re-read the account of Jesus exorcizing Legion. He did not use confrontation and anger with the posessing entities, and cast them into darkness where they would become more angry and more destructive. He showed them mercy. amd compassion by allowing the negative entities to enter a herd of swine.

I have gone in places where Catholic priests are afraid to go. I have not been harmed (yet) because I understand the entity was created by the Great Spirit, and they have a lack of understanding, so I show them love and compassion. When possible I send them unconditional love to raise their vibration, and call their ancestors to take them home.

Most of the exorcisms I have done were "christian" in their life, and they are so complexed about sin; that they are terrified to cross over for fear of being punished.

Stepping down from soapbox.

Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.

[fastwalker]

Daniel,

I traditionally tend to bristle a little inside when yet another Christian proclaims that his way is the only true way, since we've been hearing this over and over and over from the dogma drones.

But I am not hostile, just probably expressing the tedium of and suspicion with which many "average" folks probsbly react to the classic Christian attitude towards everyone else.

I respect your faith and I do believe the consciousness and energy that has built up around Jesus Christ is gigantic over the last 2000 years. If Jesus never physically existed (which I am not debating here, although everything said about him was previously said for ages about other so-called saviors, and the Bible seems a veritable grab bag of tales from previous cultures sewn together under 1 cover), the mental projections of billions of people for 2000 years would have by now created an incredible entity projection on another plane, a huge vortex of available (and supposedly benevolent) energy. So to call upon Jesus Christ seems a very sensible thing to do! I would probably do the same, since it is my personal heritage, although I would never proclaim that this was the only legitimate thing to do, which would be typical western culture arrogance. To each his own.

But again, I do believe there is tremendous energy around the Christ as manifested as Jesus due to the spiritual core that created that reality/myth plus 2000 years of having the western world's greatest aspirations cast upon that figure. What else could exist but a huge reserve of positive energy at some level?

As John Lennon once said "Christ! It ain't easy! They're going to crucify me!"

[Joe]

Hi Daniel, fastwalker et al,

I actually agree very strongly with Daniel, but so often people's understanding of the defense he mentions is not accurate. I'm far from being authoritative, but I have been involved in a Christian community where a number of negative occurences and black practices were successfully combated, and wanted to explain an aspect of Daniel's post that most non-Christians don't often hear.

Like many, I am accustomed to praying when the sh*t hits the fan, esp when an evil presence is near. There is a definite difference between that practice, and (I mean this very literally) *Christ* *Himself* being spiritually present and acting on the part of the disciple. This may sound strange, and even a little naive, but I assure you that there is a world of difference between calling on a divine name, or using white light, and feeling the Presence of God or Jesus (ie having them speak to you, or via sight) being there right in front of, and within, you. In such cases, never in my own experience or what I've heard/read second-hand has the demon or neg exerted themselves successfully on the disciple. How could they - a tremendous opposing force of vastly greater power is defending. As I said, this is not typically the case, and I know of very few times when people can directly sense a benevolent entity with them (myself only twice in my life) as the heart and mind of the person are typically a factor.

In the spirit of true discussion , many will disagree with this, and I wouldn't claim this is the only, or universal, method for defence, but I know that it does work if and when the Deity's Presence is real and present. BTW - this is not a Christian doctrine alone, although many of history's saints testify to it's power. Regardie mentions (Tree of Life) that a student's chief power in control over demonic entities is assumption of the God-form, referring to a successful invocation of a Deity. Of course, to be successful you must have that intangible quality, Faith, in such a Deity, and Surrender to it - it is not an impersonal mechanism.

So there's my 2c in defence of what seems on the outside to be "primitive" Christian dogma.

Regards,
Joe.

[Joe]

Hey fastwalker - spot on. The very old and tired practice of using Jesus' Name mechanically is one that is still cherished by the masses. Although it's always a bit touchy referencing the Bible, there are a couple of good accounts where Jesus himself points out what may and may not work - eg. when some Jews who were not Christians tried to use the name of Jesus, but were instead themselves attacked by the demons because they wielded nothing of the real power of that association. There's also a time when Jesus' closest follower couldn't drive out a demon, and Christ says that only prayer and fasting could achieve the required purity for the exorcism to work.

I do think the advised countermeasures (eg, running water, etc) are excellent, and Robert to me seems like an extremely well-experienced man in this field (understatement!). But for me the million dollar question is what gives a person real Authority over a demon, of the type that many exorcists in history, and even masters like Christ, exerted - where a command is given and obeyed.

Cheers,
Joe.

[Rob]

Hmm, actually the name Jesus Christ does have energy and power of its own, for instance by the laws of similarity and possibly the amount He has been prayed too. Whether the power came from man, or by the grace of God, I do not know. It is the same with the pentegram, used for banishing. But I do aggree, simly saying "begone in the name of Christ" will do little. But writing Jesus Christ and other various sacred symbols on your body does stop all forms of possession (told by RB, tested with some very odd effects by yours truly).
The energy you can get from such sacred names/symbols seem to rely on two factors, thinking about it. First, there is a natural energy accessable to anyone (law of similarity, energy imbued over the aeons, etc), then there is another effect directly related to how much YOU understand the symbol, which comes through the sub-conscious mind. The more you know, the more power you can channel out of it.

[Joe]

Hi Inguma - that's interesting re: Name of Jesus bearing power, etc. I have heard of saints that say that the name of Christ is the only weapon under which a demon will submit, although you would think this is true for other Deities also... Makes me wonder what exactly is the source of the power, ie. if I were out of body, and a human commanded me to be gone in the name of Jesus, I would probably slap them one - ie. the name being recited doesn't command me. I don't doubt it works on demons, etc but just wonder why they cringe at the pronunciation of a name?...

O Lord, thy ocean is so great and my boat is so small

[Rob]

Joe: I think it is likely to do with how the associated energies are very holy and powerful, it is this that they object to.
On the other hand, the reasoning given to me by RB on why demons cannot possess a body with sacred symbols/names drawn onto it, is because this would be seen as a direct offense to God, causing the demon to be instantly destroyed. So there may well be a lot more to it than I could philosophise about!
But yes, I have often wondered what the power source of these things are - human or higher?
I doubt that the name of Jesus is the only one which a demon will submit to, I mean, along those lines of reasoning there are plenty of sacred symbols out there, some which seem to work better/differently (again, the pentegram being the best example). I do not think this will have such of an effect it you tried to banish a person in the name of Christ, hey someone should experiment with this! Get an APer in the room, then try and banish them, and see what the effect is. But check it out with someone who knows what they are talking about first, hehe.

[Florian]

Hey Inguma !

Do you really think using the Name of Jesus for tests would be a good idea ?

IMHO Faith is the key behind it all. The above would be the same as tatooing the tetragrammaton on your butt, just in case...
blasphemy, but I seriously doubt that it'd work.

I think if you set up a test with someone dressed up as a demon faking an attack, to see whether Jesus comes etc. would have about the same effect

If your faith is strong enough & honest, a force called upon will help you. At least my kinda limited expereince so far in this field supports this (I usually turn to his father though )

Neither Jesus nor God is a tool

take care !

Florian

p.s.: God rocks

[Rob]

Florian: lol, your post made me laugh! But I was thinking about trying to banish a person with a pentegram, rather than the name of Jesus, though I can see this may be a similar thing.
The way I see it is like how RB described in the interview: 3 factors, and only one of them is method (also faith and will power). So, um, yeah, pretty damn hard to test then. But I do still wonder what the limitations of an OBEr are, I guess a more passive way would be to cast a magickal circle or shield with the command "no OBErs may cross" and see what happens when someone tries. Hey, I would volunteer, but no can do.

[Kristen]

Hi All...

Jesus is one arguably historically predicable example of an archetypal manifestation of the "sacrificed God"... For example, the Kaballah identifies in its structure the archetypal messianic dynamic within Tipereth  (read Dion Fortunes the Mystical Kabbalah).  The historical understanding of Jesus matches that heliocentric understanding of human relationship with God.

In other words, experiencing God by accepting Jesus Christ as savior, and using the words; for example, "in Jesus' name, Amen"  IMO is quite frankly a very legitimate invocation - as Jesus' name is a God-name.  If Jesus is what personifies and individualizes a person's experience of mysterium tremendum and fascinans, then so be it.

IMO of course,

Kristen

[Healthwoman]

Hello to all! I am new to your community, but am enjoying reading the many informative posts. I like a diversified group that knows how to debate peacefully most of the time. I am also christian and use the Christ when confronted with evil. As one of you stated, you can't just do this mechanically. The power is in the name AND the energy you allow it. Since I belive Christ created all things, I also believe He has dominion over all things and strongly believe it.
Love & Warmth to all,
Linda

"Grin & Ignore It!!!!!"

[fastwalker]

Healthwoman,

I believe you will find that in clasic Christian theology, GOD the Father created everything, and Christ is the manifestation of God within human form, as symbolized by Jesus. The Holy Spirit completes the triune God concept by acting as grace and love in our lives. I realize all is ultimately ONE, but if you are a Christian I would hope you'd know that God the Father created heaven/earth, and Christ (the son) was the physical manifestation, not the originator of all (which is how I read your post). A picky point, but if you are a card carrying member, you should get it right.

[ruth]

Hello fastwalker,

[quote}
I believe you will find that in clasic Christian theology, GOD the Father created everything, and Christ is the manifestation of God within human form, as symbolized by Jesus. [end quote]

Hmmm, are you sure? In every traditional Christian denomination I've been in, they've taught basically what the Gospel of St John 1:3 states-- that Jesus was the Word, and 'all things came into being through him and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being.' Ditto Colossians 1:16.  Hebrews 1: 2 says: "... in these last days He has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom {God] also made the world." Thus it appears that God did indeed create but He created through His Son. A minor quibble as you say.

quote:
The Holy Spirit completes the triune God concept by acting as grace and love in our lives. I realize all is ultimately ONE, but if you are a Christian I would hope you'd know that God the Father created heaven/earth, and Christ (the son) was the physical manifestation, not the originator of all (which is how I read your post). [end quote]

I beg to differ but that rather than debate, I'll be quiet now.

A picky point, but if you are a card carrying member, you should get it right. [end quote]

I agree wholeheartedly. PS if you want to check my refs, I used an NASB.

--ruth

[fastwalker]

Ruth,

Are you a fundamentalist? If so, I guess that explains it. The WORD refers to the spirit of God, not Jesus Christ the person. But I am not going to argue religion with you, since I willingly give allow you to have your dogma as it suits you. As one author said, so many Christians worship the road sign, and don't look where it points!

[ruth]

Howdy, fastwalker,

Ruth,

Are you a fundamentalist? If so, I guess that explains it. The WORD refers to the spirit of God, not Jesus Christ the person. But I am not going to argue religion with you, since I willingly give allow you to have your dogma as it suits you. {end quote}

Actually, no. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt... but found out some things just don't fit too well in the box.

As one author said, so many Christians worship the road sign, and don't look where it points! [end quote]

True.  --ruth

[Joe]

Hey fastwalker, Ruth,

An interesting thread - just thought I'd give another viewpoint held by traditionally orthodox Christianity. Mystically, God the Father is the Uncreated Absolute, the foundation and principle of all things, and although He is the Source of all, he is beyond change and relativity. Christ is the Created Absolute, the force through which the Absolute takes form and function, from the highest spiritual planes down to the physical plane - this is the meaning of the verse Ruth quotes ie. through Christ all things were created. Christ took the incarnation as Yeshua for the purpose of redemption and enlightenment. The Holy Spirit carries Christ's presence in the world since that time, or so the text book goes.

BTW - I'm not personally advocating the beliefs above, it is just another way humans historically have tried to understand the God/Jesus relationship. Although ancient and recent controversies continue on the theology above, this tends to be the orthodox view as given in the Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox catechisms, and is supported by a number of Biblical verses. At the end of the day, IMHO it's just another theory, and a belief one way or the other won't change a person's inner attainment.

All the best!

Joe

[Donni_Joy]

Hi y'all and bless yas

I just wrote a post and it somehow disappeared so instead of several paragraphs I will just say -- using the name/invoking the power of Jesus Christ and Love... and light... do not work in all cases. I think it is dangerous to suggest it does.

I do not mean to disillusion anyone but that has been my experience. Maybe I am not in JC's good books, but it certainly made no difference AT ALL during this manifestation of two elementals.

And Daniel, number one poster here -- I would like to know what your aims are in the astral,how you are careful, and how feel you are attacked -- as I am always curious to learn more about people. I think people can jump to conclusions with what Christians are about, and some of the posts reflected this. C'est la vie, I guess.

Cheers
Donni

"A balance of perspective must be maintained in order to preserve reasonable logic and truth." Robert the Brute, 2002

[Healthwoman]

Dear Fastwalker,
I used to believe that God the Father created all until I read John 1:1 which explains that it was the Word (Christ)
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made."
It goes on to say that the Word became flesh- so it is definitely speaking of Christ. verse 10 of the same chapter says "He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not."
Love, Light & Warmth ,
Linda


"Grin & Ignore It!!!!!"

[Two Bears]

quote:
Ruth,

Are you a fundamentalist? If so, I guess that explains it. The WORD refers to the spirit of God, not Jesus Christ the person. But I am not going to argue religion with you, since I willingly give allow you to have your dogma as it suits you. As one author said, so many Christians worship the road sign, and don't look where it points!

Hello Fastwalker:

Is there any need to insult her (a personal friend I might add) just because you disagree with her?

I doubt Ruth will offer a retort; but this grumpy old bear is different.

Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.

[ruth]

Hallo Two Bears, my grumpy old friend,

Thank you; you're very sweet. 'Tis okay, really. Actually i did offer a retort of sorts, 'way back on the first page. And if fastwalker wishes to call me a fundie, 'tis no harm done. At one time it was true.

In my meager experience-- to get back to the thought of this thread-- those who call on the name of Jesus sometimes have success and sometimes don't. It's said there's a correlation between the faith those have in him and his name, and the quality of lifestyle of the person doing the banishing/exorcising. But not always-- anecdotal stories abound to the contrary. Even those who appear to have great success in banishing whatever from those afflicted only have temporary success; often times those afflicted become reafflicted or the negs/demons resurface from wherever they were hiding. Sadly the 'exorcist' often will berate the victim for not having enough faith. I could tell you stories..... and sometimes people don't want to lose the demon/negs for reasons they may or may not know.

Is there a surefire-100%-never-ever-fails method? I haven't come across it. But as I said my experience is meager.

--ruth

quote:
Ruth,

Are you a fundamentalist? If so, I guess that explains it. The WORD refers to the spirit of God, not Jesus Christ the person. But I am not going to argue religion with you, since I willingly give allow you to have your dogma as it suits you. As one author said, so many Christians worship the road sign, and don't look where it points!

Hello Fastwalker:

Is there any need to insult her (a personal friend I might add) just because you disagree with her?

I doubt Ruth will offer a retort; but this grumpy old bear is different.

Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.
[/quote]

[PeacefulWarrior]

Whoa...I actually forgot about this post until now... and I obviosuly want to respond.

I feel as if "my method" has been ATTACKED, talk about confrontational!  

I never said I "attacked"other beings, in fact I feel the Spirit of the Lord is that of love and light...I think more along the lines of bringing love to "the scene" and if the being is not comfortable with love then it will leave.  

Personally I don't feel that any spirit is going to rip me limb from limb unless I allow it too...I know I can be damaged, even physically, from an "astral encounter", but I know better than to allow myself to be subject to an influence like this.

I still need to finish reading some of the responses, as my time is limited..
-Dan

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

[PeacefulWarrior]

The one sure-fire way: be powerful.  How do we do that?  By living so that we are full of love, light, knowledge, forgivness,etc.  Someone, in their post, said that deep down someone might not want to get rid of the demons/negs, whatever title you give them-- there is much truth to this statement.
Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

[PeacefulWarrior]

I am fascinated by all the different methods that many of you have shared in regards to "psychic" or spiritual attacks.  The following is my humble approach to this universal and eternal problem:

I am a Christian and I am proud to be a Christian.  Jesus the Christ is my Lord and Savior.  He is also my protector.  When I feel any negative or low vibratory presence, or when I am attacked directly, I call upon His name and Light.  In my experience, and in that of my associates, this is THE most effective way to combat any evil or malicious force.  

I also know that we find more protection and guidance when we do things with a specific intent and goal.  If one simply wanders in the spiritual realm(s) in an aimless fashion, she or he will eventually find trouble.  It is one thing to explore and another to be idle or aimless.  I personally am careful in this regard.

Peace and Love to all!

-Daniel

As man is, God once was.  As God is, man may become.
-J.Smith