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Author Topic: What's wrong with Psychic Self Defense?  (Read 35094 times)
Nay
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« Reply #150 on: February 09, 2004, 22:26:00 »

quote:
You thought all that was directed at you Nagual? No, sorry you're not the center of my universe and I don't feel like repeating myself, go play someplace.
And I am being ridiculed for MY behavior..yikes.[B)]

 
quote:
Tayesin left the AstralPulse in protest over Mayatnik (see communications forum) and he is currently helping a friend with another forum. I invited him to post at the begining of this thread and he did, I am not calling him back a second time to defend me. He has his own life and helped me when he could, and is still patient with my questions.
Couldn't find the post, but I guess it really doesn't matter.  I speak to Tayesin on Messenger as well, guess I will just flat out ask him what the heck is going on.[Wink]

 
quote:
I do not Astral Project, I have been ripped out of my body from time to time by the greys and other not so nice people/entities, something Spectral Dragon can vouch for because he had to retrieve me at on point after I was yanked out on one occasion. I never got the chance to develop my abilities, damn, I had no interest in developing my abilities, I was studying for and became a chemist for Christ sake. I had no interest in the supernatural
Now I know why I was having a hard time understanding.. because those have got to be some serious..SERIOUS..strong things, for them to be able to break through the physical plane. I can see now why you would be scared to pieces!  And Spectral Dragon, should become a Moderator because these abilities are something that are very hard to come by and we could all learn something from him.  I wouldn't even know where to begin if faced with such a thing.

 
quote:
You are an adult not a child being abused, and what your mother did to you, you can do to others. I'll repeat it again here:
This, though is a very strong statement..and I have lived my life quite the opposite.  I can't imagine doing the things that were done to me, to a innocent child, no less a adult.  They were done from a weak person whom needed to feel bigger.  And my two dogs she kicked to death were innocent as well..

 
quote:
quote:
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Uh, I am sorry but that is just plain silly, bad analogy for what this whole topic is about.
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No it's not silly, that is exactly what you are asking people to do, whether you intend it or not. Hearing people is not the same as listening
Once again another thing I said pulled out of context...*sigh*  I stand by what I said..a shark eating my leg off..doesn't really equate to what is being said here..[Tongue]

Nay
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James S
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« Reply #151 on: February 09, 2004, 22:27:42 »

Hi People,

In response to Edi's last post I've started a new thread in case anyones interested -

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10425

This goes towards what both Perena and Mick have mentioned about the need to investigate these occurances more objectively. The idea of my thread is to leave the theories and opinions (nad therefore hopefully disputes) behind in favour of looking more at exactly what HAS successfully been used to overcome negs.

Interesting point Nay has made about the idea of negs being a pretty new thing. I think it's more likely justa  new face on an old demon, a new definition for something that psychics and mystics have been dealing with for a long time, but have not had any suitable nomenclature to attach to it.

Anyway, keep talking here if you wish. Where I started the new topic to be more of an infomation resource, this topic is more for debating the points.

Kind Regards,
James.

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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #151 on: February 09, 2004, 22:27:42 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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shedt
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« Reply #152 on: February 09, 2004, 22:31:50 »

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight

quote:
Hum... which help am I supposed to have done...?

You thought all that was directed at you Nagual? No, sorry you're not the center of my universe and I don't feel like repeating myself, go play someplace.




if you want people to help you, you should not tell people to "go play someplace"

it's very rude, and it makes others who are here looking at your problems not want to help you.

In Falun Dafa I learned something. If someone hits you, there is a transfer of karma and di. but if you punch them back, the karma and di are transfered again. wether you believe in di and karma does not matter.

if someone says something mean to you or attacks you, you do have the choice to ignore it. you don't always have to fight. especialy if it another person.

you should try too work things out.

DK you talk about repeating yourself, but you don't seem to want too hear what other people here are saying too. it's the same situation.

if i punch you, you can choose to walk away. you can rise above the situation. you can grow and learn from it. this is interaction with others.

you might say something like
" i'm under attack, and ignoring the negs won't help"

negs are one thing, but people are another.

don't you think how you act to other people, and your attitute may be effecting the negs attacking you ?

have you ever wondered if maybe the reasons YOU think they are attacking you could be wrong ?

this is all in my opinion.

i hope all the people here under any form of attack can learn what they must to overcome them, and learn to grow and rise above this.
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« Reply #153 on: February 10, 2004, 01:40:10 »

I believe that it is our duty to help each other when something affects our free will. Everyone believes something different. Forgive me for saying this Shedt, I do not mean this as an insult to you or your religion, and has nothing to do with my religious beliefs: Karma, like God, is something that everyone says exists whether one believes it or not. How do we know how karma will pay us back? Will it cause one small annoyance for one hundred consecutive days or will it cause something one hundred times worse than the annoyance for only one day? When an attack takes place, something takes place, and it affects the attacker and the victim. The intent to harm becomes known to the victim, and the victim's emotions are affected because of what it means and what it implies. These emotions cause a disruption in the person's being. The victim is unaltered until the attack happens, and to undo what is done, they need to decide what to do. They have many options, your suggestion being one of them. I believe there is a time and a place for everything, even retaliation. What will they choose? It depends on their belief system, and that's what this whole topic boils down to.

If I were attacked physically, I would defend myself, because I have worked very hard for the skills that I have, and there are many people who love me, who would be hurt by knowing that someone killed me or did me harm. To let that person do me harm is to hurt those who are my friends and family. I cannot let that happen. I also feel that if I do not stop them, they will simply go off and harm someone else. Therefore, I consider it my duty to stop that person from hurting others or myself. I'm not talking about people who have the potential to harm others, I am talking about the ones who do hurt others. The same applies to the astral. If I am going to act one way on one plane, then I should act that way on all planes so that my being is more synchronized. ughh... I'm tired. I think I'll stop here.
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shedt
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« Reply #154 on: February 10, 2004, 02:45:20 »

quote:
Originally posted by EnderWiggin

I believe that it is our duty to help each other when something affects our free will. Everyone believes something different. Forgive me for saying this Shedt, I do not mean this as an insult to you or your religion, and has nothing to do with my religious beliefs: Karma, like God, is something that everyone says exists whether one believes it or not.


please re-read my post, because I believe you missed the point.

like i said, karma does not matter.

what i was trying to say is about choices.

about being a good person, about rising above a situation.

have you heard the term cultivation before ?

do you understand what i was trying to say ?



did you try to understand what i was trying to say, or were you trying to defend what you believe ?

if someone strikes you, you have the choice too not hit them back.

you have the choice to walk away, and be the better person.

again, what i was trying to say had nothing to do about karma.

this really bothers me. everyone here is so bent on shooting down the other person. most people in this thread do not seem to want too rise above, too become a better person.

karma in my post was just a example. i feel like you just looked over what i said, took one part of it and did not read the rest.

i think this goes right to the root of what this topic is about.


again, you have choices in life.
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« Reply #154 on: February 10, 2004, 02:45:20 »



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shedt
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« Reply #155 on: February 10, 2004, 02:54:58 »

quote:
Originally posted by EnderWiggin


If I were attacked physically, I would defend myself, because I have worked very hard for the skills that I have, and there are many people who love me, who would be hurt by knowing that someone killed me or did me harm.


i understand this, but this was not the scenario i ment. if someone shouts at me and calls me a name, it would be childish and imature to shout back. i would be lowering myself, and i would be being negative. i could be positive, and do nothing and walk away. would i be hurt ? no, unless i have a big ego.

is that the problem here ? ego ?

quote:

 To let that person do me harm is to hurt those who are my friends and family. I cannot let that happen. I also feel that if I do not stop them, they will simply go off and harm someone else.


yes, but if you harm them, you are not helping solve the problem. you are not getting to the root of the problem. you are lowering your level and being negative yourself. don't you think trying to talk to them would be better ? if they are bent on hurting others, don't you think you should call the police ?


again this is about the choice too be a better person, to make a personal sacrifice maybe.

it's not hard to try and be a better person. in a forum, on the street...

i like'd too quote Robert Bruce:

pg 195 Practical Pyschic Self-Defense-

"Examine every human interaction for spiritual correctness. Ask these three questions: Was it honest? Was it necessary? Was it kind? "
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shedt
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« Reply #156 on: February 10, 2004, 03:08:54 »

I don't want flame DK. I like her, I think she is cool. I want her to resolve any problems she may have had, or may be having, or may have in the future.




quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
[/br]
You thought all that was directed at you Nagual? No, sorry you're not the center of my universe and I don't feel like repeating myself, go play someplace.




quote:
pg 195 Practical Pyschic Self-Defense-

"Examine every human interaction for spiritual correctness. Ask these three questions: Was it honest? Was it necessary? Was it kind? "


was what she said above honest ? from her perspective yes. I believe she said what she ment, even if it was not nice. Was it necessary ? I do not think so. productive ? i don't think so. did it help her or other under attack ? how does it help us learn ?

and was it kind ?

if i was told to "go play someplace"

i would not find that kind.

I'm worried that even if others help her with her problems, or anyone, there still lingers things inside....

again, i don't want to be mean, i want everyone too be happy. but is this all necessary ? hmmm


let me think for a while.
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« Reply #157 on: February 10, 2004, 04:34:31 »

Hi Shedt

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was only stating what I believed, and I was making a reference to what you said about karma, which I took out of its context. I partly do agree with you in that there are times to be the bigger person and walk away. But I also know that there are times when that is simply not an option. I can walk away, but what if I'm followed? I can walk away every time, but I won't always get the same result from it. The real quetion is, can you deal  with the consequences of your own actions? All actions say something about our beliefs and values, which I think brings about the foundation of this entire discussion and every other discussion and argument.

What are your values, and how do they determine your beliefs? What are your goals and how far are you willing to go to achieve them? What methods will you use? What does it mean to struggle?  Is it worth it in the end? This is what decides action. The strength of your beliefs is based on your values, and this is what determines everything else.

But what determines our values?
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Nagual
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« Reply #158 on: February 10, 2004, 06:58:40 »

quote:
You thought all that was directed at you Nagual? No, sorry you're not the center of my universe and I don't feel like repeating myself

Yes, I think you were talking to me.  What would you think if someone quotes you and just after say "you did this, you thought that... etc..." ?  Wouldn't you think he is talking to you?  That's what you did: quote me and say "you... you..."...
quote:
go play someplace.

Agreed.
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« Reply #159 on: February 10, 2004, 07:31:04 »

quote:
Couldn't find the post, but I guess it really doesn't matter. I speak to Tayesin on Messenger as well, guess I will just flat out ask him what the heck is going on.


Tayesin comes on MSN at either 5 or 6:00AM US EST (sometimes earlier) or 9 or 10:00PM US EST.

 
quote:
Once again another thing I said pulled out of context...*sigh* I stand by what I said..a shark eating my leg off..doesn't really equate to what is being said here..

Yes it does...it is the perfect analogy for what is happening.









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« Reply #160 on: February 10, 2004, 09:05:05 »

quote:
Originally posted by Nay
quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not Astral Project, I have been ripped out of my body from time to time by the greys and other not so nice people/entities, something Spectral Dragon can vouch for because he had to retrieve me at on point after I was yanked out on one occasion. I never got the chance to develop my abilities, damn, I had no interest in developing my abilities, I was studying for and became a chemist for Christ sake. I had no interest in the supernatural
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now I know why I was having a hard time understanding.. because those have got to be some serious..SERIOUS..strong things, for them to be able to break through the physical plane. I can see now why you would be scared to pieces! And Spectral Dragon, should become a Moderator because these abilities are something that are very hard to come by and we could all learn something from him. I wouldn't even know where to begin if faced with such a thing.

 

One observation that I am getting here is that amongst the non experiencers and perhaps some ideologies there is considered to be only one type of negative entity that many believe are critters simply crying out for some love and affection. In my opinion and I believe experience there are many types with many motives, we only have to consider the practise of some forms of magic which include invocations sometimes used for attacks on others exploiting perhaps their lack of knowledge and at least initially perhaps their unawareness of such things. Again in the magic camp there is the practise of the construction of servitors for a range of purposes including agression although often used as a protective measure. By mentioning magicians I am not specifically making a judgement against magicians, it is I think the simplest example of other forms of what are generally called negs.
What I am saying is that a one size fits all solution is not I believe valid for the range of critters that might be experienced.
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« Reply #161 on: February 10, 2004, 10:54:29 »

quote:
Originally posted by Mick

quote:
Originally posted by Nay
quote:

quote:
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I do not Astral Project, I have been ripped out of my body from time to time by the greys and other not so nice people/entities, something Spectral Dragon can vouch for because he had to retrieve me at on point after I was yanked out on one occasion. I never got the chance to develop my abilities, damn, I had no interest in developing my abilities, I was studying for and became a chemist for Christ sake. I had no interest in the supernatural
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now I know why I was having a hard time understanding.. because those have got to be some serious..SERIOUS..strong things, for them to be able to break through the physical plane. I can see now why you would be scared to pieces! And Spectral Dragon, should become a Moderator because these abilities are something that are very hard to come by and we could all learn something from him. I wouldn't even know where to begin if faced with such a thing.

 

One observation that I am getting here is that amongst the non experiencers and perhaps some ideologies there is considered to be only one type of negative entity that many believe are critters simply crying out for some love and affection. In my opinion and I believe experience there are many types with many motives, we only have to consider the practise of some forms of magic which include invocations sometimes used for attacks on others exploiting perhaps their lack of knowledge and at least initially perhaps their unawareness of such things. Again in the magic camp there is the practise of the construction of servitors for a range of purposes including agression although often used as a protective measure. By mentioning magicians I am not specifically making a judgement against magicians, it is I think the simplest example of other forms of what are generally called negs.
What I am saying is that a one size fits all solution is not I believe valid for the range of critters that might be experienced.



In my experience, yes, there are different kinds of "negs" (I am beggining to hate that word as much as I hate "demons") But they all have one thing in common: They like to attack the weak points. The ways they do it though are widely varied.

quote:
Now I know why I was having a hard time understanding.. because those have got to be some serious..SERIOUS..strong things, for them to be able to break through the physical plane. I can see now why you would be scared to pieces! And Spectral Dragon, should become a Moderator because these abilities are something that are very hard to come by and we could all learn something from him. I wouldn't even know where to begin if faced with such a thing


Too much name calling and pointing fingers here still, this is a shame. I don't think I want to be a moderator here, as I have my own forum to take care of anyway. Yes these are strong entities, but the way they are getting to DK is unique. (DK since you seem to want to bring this out into the open now I hope you don't mind this...) The beings were forced into her body, and a person was going inside her head and screwing things up. A person, when inside your mind, can do some very drastic things such as pull your conscious and even parts of the sub-conscious (or the aspects of your personality you are not using at the moment) out of body, into etheric, spectral (This is what I call the thought form worlds), or astral planes. This last thing is what she was reffering to.

I do not believe I have anything so special about me that makes me so unique, it's just a will to help and experience as well as an interesting past that has gotten me where I am at. My first projection I was actually forced out of body by two spirits. Before that I had gone through a very vivid and realistic lucid dream which I am going to relate in James' post later when I get the time (nice idea BTW James[Smiley] )
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Sam
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« Reply #162 on: February 10, 2004, 12:10:38 »

quote:
I didn't say it didn't matter to me, but it seems everytime I give MY OPINION, it is wrong. So why bother? and why is that so hard for ya'll to get? In one sentence I am bad for having my opinion and not hearing yours, in the next sentence you say I should understand why they feel my opinion is flawed..do you not see you are doing the exact thing I am being critiqued for? I never said I knew everything to be facts either...I am the first to admit that! Ask anyone who really knows me, I am always trying to learn more and not ashamed of it.


Thats good then - I'll say no more about that particular issue.

quote:
Now I take this statement..as I don't have a grasp of logic, correct me if I am wrong but that is exactly what it sounds like. I am not overreacting, I am stating the truth.. And for someone whom says they don't know me well, you sure seem to act as if you know me, hence you having no problem in telling me of my faults.


Sorry, I was unclear in my meaning, I'll re-write what I originally posted for clarity.  

What I meant by "anyone with a good grasp of logic could see you are overreacting" was a direct implication that I think (my impression at least) you amongst others take criticism as an attack which you must defend with abrupt denial of fault rather than looking into yourself, seeing if the attack was warranted and then maybe modifying your attitude OR not depending on what you feel is right.  I'm sure you do this anyway but thats not the impression I get from many of the posts here (not just yours, Nay, you were just a more recent example.  I have short term memory problems so sorry you got caught in my crossfire).  Anyway, didn't mean to imply you lacked logic, I was just observing that maybe it was being substituted for some other means of dealing with the conversation.

As for stating the truth, please, tell me this TRUTH, as so far in my life I have discovered many truths only to have time and time again discovered enough evidence to prove them otherwise, until one day I decided that there is no such thing as truth, just observations of phenomena and theories as to their nature.  Even the so-called "laws" of physics get turned on their head every once in a while regardless of the number of scientists who argue their "immutable truths" against the invading theorys.  On the flipside of the truth coin, i sense a pot calling kettles black in that you think you are allowed to state your truths without people questioning their validity, but isn't that what DK did when she tried to say what happened to her truthfully and was questioned about their validity?  So maybe she reacted with hostility, which is exactly what you are doing to the "dark side" of this argument.  Its interesting to see peoples reactions when the tables have turned isn't it.  It's good advice to not give it unless you can take it.

quote:
And for someone whom says they don't know me well, you sure seem to act as if you know me, hence you having no problem in telling me of my faults.


And you can claim that you've never, ever judged anyone you've just met from the way they act in a conversation? P-lease.

 
quote:
Well, you see things one way, I see them another. Doesn't make either of us right.. Like I said..I tried to help, and got shot down for it..I quoted her responses to me. I felt pretty silly afterwards, I'll tell you that. She made me feel as if I could be of no help, and my ideas on how to perhaps alleviate some of her problems was down right stupid.


Like I tried explaining earlier, but you probably missed the point, there is no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to anyones perception of how they think the universe is.  But there is a sliding scale between delusion and reality where some people are more or less deluded than others.  So you got shot down because she didn't need your help.  So DK acted a bit upset in a time of crisis.  Thats over and done with now isn't it?  Why does it keep on getting dragged back up.  Are you still hurting over it?  I'm not trying to cause any bad feelings around here I certainly have none for you Nay, but maybe you'll feel better if you understand that Dark Knight did find your solutions silly and useless in her situation.  They may work for you, but theres many cats and more than one way to skin em.  If your well being depended on skinning cats, it would be nice to be able to skin as many different kinds as possible in as many ways.  Yack, bad analogy.  Anyhoo...

 
quote:
It worked for me, but it is obvious from this thread that I have different beliefs on how things can be handled.


Which is the point in question I think.  And this just doesn't affect you, Nay.  Everyone has different beliefs in how things can be handled but they all lie on that sliding scale I mentioned earlier.  This discussion I think is trying to make us all aware of where we stand on that scale and I for one dont give a monkeys if I happen to be 33.6% more delusional than you.  If you think that is the case then try to prove it for goodness sake, unless of course you're happy to let delusional people wander in your midst deluding other people they manage to convince of their delusional perspective.

 
quote:
Uh, I am sorry but that is just plain silly, bad analogy for what this whole topic is about.


Just re-reading the topic... hmm.. problems with PSD.  No I think the shark analogy works because the problem with PSD is a lot of people seem to believe something which works for them works for everyone else, and the reason that it doesn't work for certain others is because it is their belief system which is flawed, because it doesn't reflect your's closeley enough.  I will extend the analogy by adding that maybe you're spearfishing in the astral and so far you've encountered only herring.  One of the problems with PSD is not enough people acknowledge the greater dangers out there, and seem to think that thinking scary thoughts somehow attracts those big bastards.  Well, I used to be a positive child and was taken by a shark so to speak, and only recently realised what was happening.

 
quote:
I am trying to remember when I said that you must bow down to me and respect me...
If you mean I don't respect people, because I have a difference of opinion well...that is your opinion I believe this is what I said, and it doesn't say anything about me demanding your respect..


Ok so maybe I had an issue with the clarity of your original post, but I have to make it clear also that its not only you that talks about respect.  I've read around here of peoples respect "slipping" a notch or two this way and that.  Maybe the issue should be trust and not respect because as soon as you stop respecting someone because of past injustices, you fail to notice that maybe their personality has changed.  Trust on the other hand is different, because if you distrust someone then your intentions are a lot clearer.  Thats how I deal with it anyway but then again, the old delusionometer could come in handy right about now.

 
quote:
*sigh* I have repeated myself in as many different ways that I can, I grow tired and weary of this. I have to say I have learned something today.... That there are negs out there and walking around in human form, and now I give you my back.


Before you go, one last question.  No I don't think you've repeated yourself that much actually we do seem to be getting this argument to some fundamental issues that underly the greater problem of what is wrong with PSD, namely that to do with peoples beliefs on what is "correct" as far as PSD is concerned.  We have each others best interests at heart and rest assured what you are saying isn't falling on deaf ears, as I can see where you are coming from and I am slightly altering my stance to clarify and sometimes nullify some of my earlier arguments if you didn't notice.

And by turning your back on me is that to say I'm not worth talking to?  What are you afraid of, that I might learn something from you or that *gasp* you might learn from a stupid, ill informed newb?

Please don't go Nay.  I like to sort things out so that everyone is happy, but I guess I'm just too flexible when it comes to breaking my comfort zone.
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« Reply #163 on: February 10, 2004, 14:41:53 »

Okay this may be getting to personal.  I still stand by what I've said but I've had a good think about this next part.

I haven't "taken sides" as such in this argument, I've just tried to help people understand some of the ideas that seem so logically sound but keep getting rejected outright.  Theres two main sides in this debate, one (Team A) which claims that "I have a right to my belief and nothing you can say will change it because I only believe things I experience myself" and the other (Team B) claims "I also have a right to my belief and I believe what you believe is flawed, and I'm trying to help you understand where that flaw lies".  Team A claims team B has no right to pick out their flaws.  Team B thinks that by showing team A what they think are flaws they are going to help team A prepare against something that team B had a hard time dealing with.  Now the issue seems more complex because both sides have stooped to making assumptions that offend each other and I am guilty of this to a certain degree, sorry if I assumed something that hurt you.  I say "seems" more complex because it really isn't.  If we were to wipe the slate clean of whatever A or B may have said to offend one another we can look at each others arguments in an unbiased light.  If you have taken offense to something and still hold a grudge maybe consider forgiving because holding a grudge is definately a negative thing to do.  Team A would like to leave the argument because they think they've repeated the same things over and over again, which appears to be the case.  Team B, however, seems to have made a concerted effort to provide different explainations for the same concept which very simply put is "I think PSD is flawed because people are being pushed away when they realise the help they recieve isn't working, and whenever they mention this fact they are told to try harder, or they aren't doing it right.  Meanwhile whatever is causing the damage is still there, and everyone on the forum is arguing about which different solutions work better instead of offering their solution and allowing the victim to try them all, leaving the victim confused and self doubting, since this place was seen as a refuge for those in need"
Team A denys this assertion.  They say they have a right to their beliefs (which I don't argue), and don't think that they are pushing people away.  Team A is running out of steam and have decided that Team B is stubborn and not listening to them, so the best way to deal with it is to abandon the argument because they feel like it's going nowhere.  My belief (from experience with people in life in general) is that if people abandon an argument, the issues under scrutiny will not go away and will linger in the back of people's minds and every time they see something from the "other team" they will immediately predjudice their response based upon unresolved feelings.  I'm not saying this is an easy situation but it will be better for everyone involved to stay put and try and understand the "other team"'s perspective and how it fits in with their own.  If an argument gets ignored, it implys "well I know what I believe and I don't think I should be interfering/caring about what the other guy believes because he/she isn't me and I only care about myself and my own beliefs."

That, from what I've read here, is the clearest and simplest view of this argument that I can come up with.  Does anybody want to help me clarify it or are we all going to leave this one alone for some reason?
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Mick
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« Reply #164 on: February 10, 2004, 15:39:41 »

quote:
Originally posted by SpectralDragon

In my experience, yes, there are different kinds of "negs" (I am beggining to hate that word as much as I hate "demons") But they all have one thing in common: They like to attack the weak points. The ways they do it though are widely varied.


generally I never used the term negs prefering entity plus an adjective.

Yes, it makes common sense to attack weaknesses and where an appropriate weakness does not exist there will often be a persistent attempts to establish a hook especially where the purpose is for a prolonged association.

Another aspect that I think is important is what type of associations or networks do entities have or use as part of their activities be they honourable or otherwise. We do note that entities will travel by predefined routes along which can be found structures/resources placed there by others to assist group operations. It is our thought that for some activities these structures help some types of entities to operation in close association with the physical world.
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Mick

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« Reply #165 on: February 10, 2004, 15:42:55 »

quote:
Originally posted by Mick

quote:
Originally posted by SpectralDragon

In my experience, yes, there are different kinds of "negs" (I am beggining to hate that word as much as I hate "demons") But they all have one thing in common: They like to attack the weak points. The ways they do it though are widely varied.


generally I never used the term negs prefering entity plus an adjective.

Yes, it makes common sense to attack weaknesses and where an appropriate weakness does not exist there will often be a persistent attempts to establish a hook especially where the purpose is for a prolonged association.

Another aspect that I think is important is what type of associations or networks do entities have or use as part of their activities be they honourable or otherwise. We do note that entities will travel by predefined routes along which can be found structures/resources placed there by others to assist group operations. It is our thought that for some activities these structures help some types of entities to operation in close association with the physical world.



"our"Huh?? You and who...

Anyway I do agree that they group together sometimes.
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« Reply #166 on: February 10, 2004, 18:36:47 »

quote:
Originally posted by SpectralDragon
"our"Huh?? You and who...



My partner plus one or two others.

We like to work in a corroborative manner, that is observe and then compare, then ponder Smiley
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« Reply #167 on: February 11, 2004, 17:31:15 »

Hello everyone
I will in this post provide a channeling by my guide Jopeha, who found it important to speak on the methods used in getting rid of 'negs'.

The need for a method to get rid of 'negs' or to help them out have long been sought after through the ages of man, but it has often been with terrifying results. It has been with fear and anger, that campaigns have been led to rid them out and create a better life for those affected by such. There has been no regard for the spirit itself, but looked upon as something evil or non-personal. The truth is that these 'negs' or negative spirits hold personality and give up much of their time to reconsile with their own feelings. They are not the fearsome beasts or demons because they attack and induce fear in others. They are poor souls that have not found a way out of their misery and therefore react upon this misery. There is no excuse for these actions, but bear in mind that the spirit is acting upon the suffering that its experiencing, and any way to get out of this suffering would be acceptable for the spirit. The spirit sometimes attack with a wish to establish a contact to the living for a way out, but its often that the living is not capable of helping out and are scared of these attacks. Needless to say there is a miscommunication that lead to fear on both sides, and induces anger in the spirit that is led from the frustration of not being helped and rejected in often cruel ways.
We dont have a way to help these spirits directly as they are on a level of confusion that they must work out on their own, but still they are affected by the help of the guides who work in a subtler way and can not intervene in a brute way. This is why there are people who have brought it upon themselves to help these spirits and find ways in doing so. When such a help occur between a living person and a spirit, there is created a bond of trust between them. It is here that spirit can find reconciliation and move towards new steps in its development. There are no promises of a fair and painless process, as this is a living person that has passed on, but stuck on a plane that bears confusion and misleading thoughts. Now there is no way that a spirit can find reconciliation in being chased away or tried upon its life. Only by opening up towards other possibilities than chasing away or trying to kill, can the spirit find this reconciliation.
We dont ask for people to do this helping, but we do encourage people to think of what they are doing when they do help. We find it a good idea to look upon the methods that is being used and find if they indeed help. Help that extends the living person and this persons needs. There is no reconciliation met if the victim of these attacks is told that the spirit wont be coming back because it has been chased away, as this might just feed ideas indicating a rearrival of this spirit. This is often the case when people have been haunted or attacked for many years, trying every method there is to scare it away or try to drive it out. They dont see that the spirit is only angered and that it dont see a reason why it should leave this place, because it has occupied that space and no person should tell it where to go. There is no reason at all why this spirit shouldnt be able to be helped, as it can be done by approaching it in a nonhostile way. So there is a need to reevaluate the methods being used, if one truly wish to help those who are living and those who are no longer with the living.


Light and Compassion
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« Reply #168 on: February 11, 2004, 18:08:49 »

Great post Fuzzi.  What Jopeha has said makes a lot of sense.  I see a simular evolution in human society in general, that in antiquity other tribes or peoples were dehumanized and even demonized on the rational of survival.  Often, both sides reviled the other, but in modern times we have the consciousness to realize that the 'enemy' is usually just somebody else out looking for their own best interests too.  Sadly, too often, this still happens in the world today.

I really came back to post a more general remark, which I think is related.

It relates to the level and ferocity of debate over this topic.  Each poster seems to believe passionately in his view, which I see as indicating far deeper issues than what appears to be.  As has been remarked many times elsewhere at this site there is currently in the world today a veritable explosion of spiritual, psychic, and astral experience and activity.  Why this is so is something I think we should all think about.

This link, which I can neither agree with or disagree with, is an example of what I mean:
http://deoxy.org/t_sunami.htm
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« Reply #169 on: February 12, 2004, 17:48:27 »

quote:
Originally posted by Fuzziwig

They are poor souls that have not found a way out of their misery and therefore react upon this misery. There is no excuse for these actions, but bear in mind that the spirit is acting upon the suffering that its experiencing, and any way to get out of this suffering would be acceptable for the spirit. The spirit sometimes attack with a wish to establish a contact to the living for a way out, but its often that the living is not capable of helping out and are scared of these attacks. Needless to say there is a miscommunication that lead to fear on both sides, and induces anger in the spirit that is led from the frustration of not being helped and rejected in often cruel ways.
...
There are no promises of a fair and painless process, as this is a living person that has passed on, but stuck on a plane that bears confusion and misleading thoughts


This rather sounds like what are called earth bound spirits by other aware groups and many groups do actually seek to help them out. Spiritualists have rescue groups for such work and mediums will often be found conversing and coaching such types to leave a place where they might have been annoying the physical residents in an attempt to get a point over. Some exorcisms are also directed at helping such to move on from their entrapment
quote:

There is no reconciliation met if the victim of these attacks is told that the spirit wont be coming back because it has been chased away, as this might just feed ideas indicating a rearrival of this spirit.


That is a narrow view and not one that I find prevalent.
There does seem to be an obsession here with the ascribing of fear and hatred (re. quoting Medgar Evers quote) to those who have some objection to being the subject of unpleasant experiences whatever the cause!

I would also add seeing the whole of the flora and fauna of what some term negative aspects as only earthbound spirits is a somewhat restricted view. It takes no account of many other possible causes and potential sources of problems in amongst the good stuff. Giving advice on this basis is unsound!
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« Reply #170 on: February 13, 2004, 08:15:49 »

I agree with Mick, the main problem I have been seeing throughout this whole thing is that neg attacks are ascribed a narrow definition and limited viewpoint. The fear and hate thing ahs been beaten to death and even Robert Bruce has described many a situation where a neg can come after you through someone elses work (enslaving the neg),...negs are very old and some very powerful with high pain threshholds and they do hold long grudges. Robert has demonstrated accounts of negs attacking a family line generation after generation, just because of a grudge. Back when I still had problems keeping these things out of me, I'd drink pure Holy Water and feel the squirming inside my chest and hear, "It burns, it burns, but we don't care, we hate you that much."

Not all negs are earthbound entities that are lost and confused, in fact Robert has even stated in his book, they are a small percentage. There has got to be more imagination and creativity and understanding in what a neg is and how it operates.



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« Reply #171 on: February 13, 2004, 10:58:31 »

Fuzzy:
I am seeing the idea through your guide that "evil cannot exist." This is simply not true. Every guide knows that evil exists. I don't think Hitler is going through a heaven state right now in fields of flowers or fluffie bunnies. If evil did not exist what is the reason for hell to exist?
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« Reply #172 on: February 13, 2004, 12:21:15 »

There is no hell, or you would have to make one!  Ah well that’s what I belief anyway, as I see no reason to belief in hell.

The size of this topic show if nothing else how complex this topic is.

One thing I do find disturbing as someone above me also did, that the guides don't seem to admit negs can cause real problems. I don't think any human is evil, but they can still do horrible things, I can't see why this would be any different whit negs. Then what do you do about such a neg, it seems obvious your not going to have nice “chat” whit him, so then what do you do? (This is a question for the guides)
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Mick
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« Reply #173 on: February 13, 2004, 13:36:19 »

quote:
Originally posted by Akensai

There is no hell, or you would have to make one!  Ah well that’s what I belief anyway, as I see no reason to belief in hell.


I am not sure about hell of heaven for that matter but
 
quote:

One thing I do find disturbing as someone above me also did, that the guides don't seem to admit negs can cause real problems. I don't think any human is evil, but they can still do horrible things, I can't see why this would be any different whit negs.


Think that I might stretch to saying that some humans are evil, watching the news can be unnerving sometimes when considering the nature of the people being reported on.

In my experience not all guides do deny, which of course raises some potentially very important questions. Where is the one voice of a common source etc etc?

quote:

 Then what do you do about such a neg, it seems obvious your not going to have nice “chat” whit him, so then what do you do? (This is a question for the guides)



I like the previous comment, sending positive thoughts to someone about to punch one on the nose is generally not effective. Western cultures do have this turn the other cheek mentality which helps the bad guys immensely.
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Mick

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« Reply #174 on: February 13, 2004, 16:38:52 »

I don't know if you can say somebody is evil in their intent.  The result of their actions could be considered evil, for example economic sanctions starving millions of people to death, but to put yourself in the shoes of the person or people making that choice, they would have grown up in a world where whatever made them make that choice seemed like the right thing to do.  They learned to justify their actions with some "greater good" concept whereby the end justifies the means.  They lack the experience of suffering or the compassion for suffering because its something that has never entered their sphere of perception.

If there is a sense of karma in the cycles of life, such people will be made to experience the suffering for each and every being affected by their actions, or until they learn that cause and effect, choices you make affect other people because of the consequences of such choices.  If not, well they'll just go on being prisoner to their own ignorance.

Even if there is no karma, the millions of starving people develop a deep longing to express the injustice being done to them.  They talk amongst themselves and the "wisest" amongst them decides to try and enact karma on the oppressors by say, hijacking an airliner and crashing it into a building.  Not a wise way to make a point, but understandable if you place yourselves in the shoes of the people making the choice.

I can't see even the most viciously agressive person who has no concern for other people's welfare being evil.  I'm not saying what they do is right, because a murderer or rapist isn't right.  But in their head, they just got screwed up somewhere along the line so that other matters less than self.  If you choose to define that as evil then so be it, but even so such people can be helped if they are placed in the right circumstances to force a change in their attitude.
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