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i went to a church

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loppoppy

I went to a church where they held a special service where people discussed their experiences with god. All i heard all evening was stories of how god had reached out to them in television adverts which inspired them to help change our world and how terrible the world is. I asked them if they had ever considered that such terrible acts in the world could help better us as well as other well founded questions but whenever i disagreed or questioned anything to do with their religion they scowled at me and in the end i was thrown out for being the only person not placing blind faith in a book. They were so lodged into their faith that they had totally closed their mind to anyone with different views. It was a sad thing to witness. It was as if religion had removed their individuality and recreated them like zombies. Just a form of control.

I do not doubt that things such as the bible are unholy or that they are without truth. But consider this story:

A long time ago just after Jesus had died, there was controversy between the Romans and the Christians. From what the bible had taught them, the Christians were somewhat rebelling against the Romans and as a result many innocent people were slaughtered for their beliefs. In response to this, one Constantine the great took all of the controversial holy scriptures and burned them, keeping only the scriptures that caused the least conflict and exacted a certain form of control. From that time this new version of the bible was passed down through time accepted as absolute truth, when in-fact it was just a method of control. Nowadays such control is not needed but the same brainwashing remains in effect.

I appeal to anyone here who is deeply religious to not totally shut their minds out to the rest of the world and whatever views they may have. To realize the absolute truth in religion one must be open minded and sometimes question their beliefs. Also just because it is sacred, it does not mean it has not been tampered with through time in order to simmer down controversy. I also hopes this makes sense, it is late and at times like this i can sometimes speak total rubbish.
for what shall it profit a man if he is to gain the world and lose his own soul?

GANAMOHA

Thank you for posting this as an addiction that many people have that is basically always overlooked is the addiction to religion. This is why I quite going to churches (I tried 13 different churches) people who are alcohalics are much less scarier than people with addiction to religion. they just put a sound proof paper bag and shut themselves out of the world. (although I am sure many many people would dissagree this is how I believe president bush won the election with religion but this is an OPINION look it up)
I stand at the threshold of what could be a new world

Mitch

I completely agree with you.
I think people can believe in whatever they want, but they shouldn't have to believe everything that religion says. You should act by your own thoughts and opinions, you be the judge of what is right or wrong.
Practically all 'Christians' believe in the exact same things, happening the exact same way and time, and follow the exact same rules. Pathetic, really.

Nay

They REALLY threw you out??  Wow.  :-o   I've been thinking for the past few weeks about going to a couple of church services around here.. just to see how or if things have changed.   Not sure if I want to take that chance now..lol

WalkerInTheWoods

There is no harm in going to see how things are. Though I would not expect constructive discussions. Most churches seem to only want to reenforce their current beliefs and are not looking for any actual discussions. That is probably why here there is quite literally a church on every corner. They figure if you don't like what they have to say you can go some where else.

What kind of church are you looking for? Here I think we have most religions represented in some form of a building.
Alice had got so much into the way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the common way.

Nay

I'm not looking for any kind.  I just thought I would do a few walk-ins to the different choices around my area, if for nothing more than to experience it.

filipcza

This is a very good topic!

I have tried..time and time again to discuss intelligently with religious persons in different forums.

This is how things have always progressed:

1. Someone is posting something spiritual eg. his/hers spontaneous obe, and asking what was it.
2. We(the obe knowing folks) give our advice and tell there's nothing to fear, that obe is something very natural and so on.
3. Then someone with FAITH comes in and posts a long quote from bible, and basically tells that Jesus is the way, or you go to hell, and that anything spiritual is a sure sign that devil has a grip on you, and you better give your life to Jesus, or else!
4. At this point I try to start a conversation with this religious person, making questions about the quote, where there seems to be some "holes", but he/she immediately bails out. Discussion is over.

This is sad, because it seems that their faith is on so shaky ground that they cannot even discuss about it. Or maybe they are afraid that if they started to think, they might see that maybe not all of the bible is correct. And that would be devastating to their belif system.

In my opinion if a religion requires you to not think, then it's a cult and that's very dangerous. The most horrifying acts have been made with "blind faith", because no thinking person (with conscience) would ever do such acts of violence.

-Pete

WalkerInTheWoods

Quote from: Nay on July 12, 2006, 13:04:36
I'm not looking for any kind.  I just thought I would do a few walk-ins to the different choices around my area, if for nothing more than to experience it.

I have done that at times, mostly with my parents if they ask. I say go for it. I have seen some very nice and loving places. It was worth if atleast just for that particular experience.
Alice had got so much into the way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the common way.

Nay

Wow.. so right.. I feel the history as well.  I would appreciate a place that just listened to silence.  I couldn't find a place that allowed you to speak.  It was mostly listening to what the preacher/priest wanted to talk about.  I, for a couple years, was a puppet named, Pinky, for the 'daycare'.....I did love that.. but the part that I felt guilty about was... I had to have the bible open in order for me to quote anything.   Pinky was a total hit.. but I felt like a fraud.

Stookie

I've been to many churches in my lifetime. The best have always been the smaller, 100-member churches. It seems many of them have formed from people who were unhappy with the politics of larger churches, where it gets in the way of experience.

My sister and her family go to a LARGE suburban church, and it's the most commercial thing I've ever seen in a church. They have a huge screen in the front, no altar, and they show Jesus commercials while you're waiting for church to start. Every Sunday's service is handed out to them by some organization that supplies the same service to other churches. There's very little preparation on the pastor's part. It's like franchising. Awful, negative vibes in there.

GANAMOHA

the scary part is you go there once they become your best friends and somehow they know your number where you live probably even when you use the restroom. makes me shudder to remember that. I think I'd like to go to a soul chuch (makes me laugh) I doubt that is what anyone would call it but thats the only way I can really describe it and I hate to be racist but you know theres like only african americans or uhhhhhh...you get the point just sound like something that would be interesting to go to.
I stand at the threshold of what could be a new world

WalkerInTheWoods

Quote from: Stookie on July 12, 2006, 23:06:00
I've been to many churches in my lifetime. The best have always been the smaller, 100-member churches. It seems many of them have formed from people who were unhappy with the politics of larger churches, where it gets in the way of experience.

My sister and her family go to a LARGE suburban church, and it's the most commercial thing I've ever seen in a church. They have a huge screen in the front, no altar, and they show Jesus commercials while you're waiting for church to start. Every Sunday's service is handed out to them by some organization that supplies the same service to other churches. There's very little preparation on the pastor's part. It's like franchising. Awful, negative vibes in there.

That sounds like the Church of Commercialism. Anyone else see that episode of King of the Hill where Hank and his family went to a church just like that? I thought it was a big joke. I did not really think there were places like that. That is just scary.
Alice had got so much into the way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the common way.

Nay

You just gave me chills Stookie.. crazy church people.  You wouldn't be talking about the church in the now would you?

Stookie

No, not Church in the Now, but from what I gather, it's pretty much the same thing. CITN may be a worse. They tell their member to give 15% of their income to the church instead of the regular tithing. The pastor and his wife have individual Mercedes. Yet they have TONS of members. The fact that so many people go is more scary than the church itself.

My parents go to a little, non-denominational church, and it's pretty decent. The people there have good hearts.

Nay

My brother was in charge of building the new additions to the church and he met the guy.  He said he thought he looked like the devil..something about his eyebrows, hehe.. plus he just got a creepy feeling about him.  :evil:  It is crazy scary how many people go there.. they make millions!  :x

loppoppy

wow i'm relieved people are agreeing with my views here. I tried to tell some people around where i live about what happened and they told me serves me right for being controversial. I've never seen a deeply commercial church but I wouldn't mind visiting one just to see how deeply disturbing it would be. All of this really puts into perspective the theory that religion will destroy the world. There has been terrorism in the "name of god" and wars all over the world about religion. I wonder if it's just doing far to much harm in the ratio of how much good it's doing.
for what shall it profit a man if he is to gain the world and lose his own soul?

WalkerInTheWoods

Quote from: Stookie on July 13, 2006, 15:45:43
No, not Church in the Now, but from what I gather, it's pretty much the same thing. CITN may be a worse. They tell their member to give 15% of their income to the church instead of the regular tithing. The pastor and his wife have individual Mercedes. Yet they have TONS of members. The fact that so many people go is more scary than the church itself.


Considering the wide spread materialism in the US I guess we really should not find this surprising. Luckily I do think this is very much in the minority. There is a church in the town I grew up in that took up a whole block down town. This was a small town so it was not like a NYC block, but big for the town. People that went there always talked about the stuff they had and things they did, but I don't recall much talk about spirituality or even religion.
Alice had got so much into the way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the common way.

Nay

I think I find it surprising, because in my little bubble of existence, I find that religion has almost faded.  I guess that is why over the past few weeks I've been thinking about going to see if things have changed.  If anything, it sounds like it's gotten worse.  Those poor people..being dissillusioned....

Alaskans

#18
What do you think religion should be like after 2020 years of people playing telephone? To say religion strayed from the path is an understatement, I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus thought about burning down the churches. Everywhere I see things placed in religions by people for someones personal gain, almost all are thoroughly corrupt. Everything from preachers cloths and titles to altered quotes in the bible. Religions were poised for doom since they started holding meetings in churches. Its even more apparent since becoming spiritual. To me, religions are trashcans full of human garbage with a few perfect fruits of spiritualism on the bottom.

In the end we should just be gratefull we have our own pure, untouchable, forever advancing personal religion... Spirituality.
Every single person is an enigma of wonder waiting patiently to be realized.

Scoff if you want; soon we will be leading the race to new heights and you will wish you had followed us in our search for truth.

Nay

Actually, I'd say people strayed.. not religion.  And I say that in the nicest of ways.  Religion has been the same oppressing, depressing, quilt ridden entity from the beginning.... it's people whom have finally strayed...because they know and feel, something just isn't right.


.UnderINK.

For a very long time, I noticed in my own house that my grandmother, a catholic, had the view that, by default, everyone believed what she believed. It was unspeakable for her to think that anyone who wasn't Christian, Catholic, or Jewish even existed. She went so far as to, post-finding out that I was an agnostic spiritualist, laughed and shrugged it off with a statement much equivalent to "Oh don't be silly, there is nothing else to believe."

When I go to church I see that people follow the bible almost blindly. Most of the Christians I argue with haven't read -any- material past the bible at all, and know little to nothing about its history. It seems to me, as aforementioned, that Christianity itself is a brainwashing religion. A friend I had, named Cherish, was a 'devout' Christian for years. When I asked her what made her believe what she believed, she told me "because my parents believed it." It's usually the same. They're drawn into it by peers or the 'superego' aspect of their life. It isn't the faith to me that's sad, but the lack of free thought involved in it. There is a 'sect' of Christianity I have some respect for, labeled 'liberal' Christians, who do acknowledge the history of the bible, the likelyness it's a metaphor or stretched tale, and treat god as a god, not a king sent to rule them. So I guess it goes to show, some people can escape that and treat it as the faith it was meant to be.

Nay

This reminds me of one of the direct voice recording I listened to.  This woman, Nellie Wright, she was in the Salvation Army for fifty years and was soooooooo stuck with her belief, that she was wanting to save the people that she was communicating with.  You could tell she was a good soul, but dang.... so stuck..narrow minded.   I think that was a great example.  One thing you have to get past....is the sound of the voices...especially if you are skeptic.  Listen to the message.. and then it will become clearer.

http://www.leslieflint.com/nelliewrightswf.htm

Alaskans


I wouldn't say the worshipers strayed, if it were true then religion would be more open minded. The religious figures in power strayed. Back in the day religion was used to controll peoples thoughts by the governments. Then the priests, bishops, etc, hands started to sweat holding those donations, up pops evangelism and many others. All the while people splinter from the teachings because either they disagree with what is preached or they want to make their own little cult. I lament religion being impossible in a world of people; the power of collective energy, the sense of comradship, is something to mourn. But it just cant happen in this day and age, not with the world upside-down, eventually greed and other self destructive desires win.
Every single person is an enigma of wonder waiting patiently to be realized.

Scoff if you want; soon we will be leading the race to new heights and you will wish you had followed us in our search for truth.

loppoppy

Heres another story.

A crazy friend of mine wasn't a christian and practically laughed at the idea of religion, when his family found out about this they literally trapped him in the house and prayed and prayed for his soul to be saved, "o lord forgive his ignorance".

A week later I see him again and talk with him, he's so deep into religion now i've lost him as a friend, he believed through all the prayers he puked up demons and was purified in the bright light of god. He goes to church every week and makes large donations. He likes to remind me how i will go to hell for not joining him in prayer and for my beliefs. His dramatic change really opened my eyes to the power of religion, and i was absolutely discusted.

Using this story for reference, I still stick by my opinion that religion was distorted by man an that religions modern interpretation of tampered texts are what does the damage and transforms others, creating the narrow minded and somewhat annoying attitude i see everywhere i go.
for what shall it profit a man if he is to gain the world and lose his own soul?

Mitch

Why do people have so much faith in basically the newest religion? How in the hell do they think it's more true than an ancient one?