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Individuality

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galaxy_storm

Our greatest goal is to return to the "source" and become one with it again. But why we ever divided from the "source"? Why individuality was created? Why everything didn't remain "one with the source" for all eternity? If there is pure joy/bliss/love in the "source", why there was a need to experience negative things??

If our goal is to re-unite with the "source" and become "pure consciousness" again as it was in the "beginning", wouldn't this mean that the whole process of individuality creation and finding a way back to the source will repeat? Wouldn't this mean that there is an endless cycle of oneness-individuality? If so, are "we" trapped in this cycle?  :? I'm confused
Flow...

Stookie

QuoteBut why we ever divided from the "source"? Why individuality was created? Why everything didn't remain "one with the source" for all eternity?

Everything did remain one - we aren't divided from the source, we just perceive ourselves to be. When you realize this, there is no time and space. You're a part of the source and you realize you've always been. Any separation is/has been/will be an illusion caused by perception in time and space.

I think the meaning of the cycle of death and rebirth is beyond human brain comprehension. It has to be experienced, like this entire topic. You can read about it, contemplate it, study it, but that stuff means nothing until it's experienced. It's not a place you go to, it's not like a dream or a vision. It's here and now, and when experienced it's immediately remembered that you've never been separate.

CFTraveler

QuoteIf our goal is to re-unite with the "source" and become "pure consciousness"
I would think that the goal isn't to reunite with the source, just to realize we already are and accept it, which is really the hard part.
MO, as always.  :-D

MindFreak

I don't think its possible to know what our greatest goal is because, in my own opinion, even after one's final awakening from our current situation I personally believe that there are many more stages of development and much more to reality that can be understood by our limited minds. We can only deal with experience, immediate experience, and everything lies inside our own minds, but not the delusions and fantasies and random ramblings and movements of the mind but the mind itself .

quester

#4
Quote from: galaxy_storm on May 14, 2007, 14:54:55
Our greatest goal is to return to the "source" and become one with it again. But why we ever divided from the "source"? Why individuality was created? Why everything didn't remain "one with the source" for all eternity? If there is pure joy/bliss/love in the "source", why there was a need to experience negative things??

If our goal is to re-unite with the "source" and become "pure consciousness" again as it was in the "beginning", wouldn't this mean that the whole process of individuality creation and finding a way back to the source will repeat? Wouldn't this mean that there is an endless cycle of oneness-individuality? If so, are "we" trapped in this cycle?  :? I'm confused

I have to agree with the things said here. Ironic I use the word "things". I to have specific and philosophical beliefs that mirror the comments here. But here I would like to deviate from the specific, because specific is not my style, so I hope you don't mind.

Galaxy, I think you have touched on one of the best possible questions ever for me. The first part of your answer is in the word you choose, "confused", some say hidden.  What if someone told you the answer, would you believe it?  In all probability no. I think that's important for us to recognize or admit. We probably wouldn't recognize it.

There is something each of us has to learn, probably in the end all the same thing. Don't ask me why. But if one believes in the path, cycles, and of learning then you have your answer but it is not in the terms the mind can or is willing to grasp, not yet.

There are other more important questions we could ask here. Imagine this is probably not even the most complicated, astounding! The reason is I already have my answer, as do others. I wish we would communicate them more, but we don't. A hundred ways to say the same things and we think they are each different.

The question is merely framed by the mind, change the frame and things transform. Confusion turns to awe, and awe to comfort. In fact, once you gain your answer, this question will move to the bottom of your list. Albeit, the human spirit is inquisitive by nature, it is spirit, but it is also easily led.

We might as well use the word brain instead of mind because immediately we must recognize we see ourselves in physical terms, and we also try to answer many of our questions just that way. How do we see, with the spiritual eye or the physical brain which demands immediacy. The brain is designed this way, it needs it's answer now, it is how we actually survive. To even begin to answer the question we must transcend ourselves, this is the mind's quality. The answer here is, you yourself gain knowledge that will be yours alone, that which you will carry forward. The more you accept the more you will gain.

I agree with the comment we're aren't divided from the source, we only think we are. It's not a mystery why. We've been told we are. As physical beings we have attached ourselves to the physical, its objects, and yes (opinions) men. May I ask a quick question to help illuminate our fear to some? Is there anyone that believes in the original sin concept. IMO, man is not sinful and the human nature is one of basic goodness. The concept you began with is important, free of any negativism and you must be willing to break attachments that hold you in illusion. You may have preconception that keep you locked in.

I think we believe there's an order that you must understand before you can accept. There is no order, no logic, no sense. It's not about any of these things. If there is one (because we can't think of any other way), we must accept first and then understand. The question must first bring peace, also realizing the mind is not the brain. Put aside any prejudices and fear you may have. I think there's an issue here very important to the beginner. (I do say anyone is, only that we begin). The inner self recognizes that once you begin that journey you can never stop or turn back. If you are not prepared, don't start, there is time enough. The mind may be signaling you with it's feeling of confusion. The mind will do what it needs to to protect itself and even you. Believe it or not, there are people who don't want to move on. We are all connected not separate and as I move so do you. We call this the path. Others will even try to keep you from moving. For those who choose, as many will tell you, as you open yourself you will see not new things, but in new ways. You will have to change in many ways, or better,become who you really are. On a positive note sometimes it is exciting, and at other time, at lease for me, lonely. The physical desires not to change, the mind...well, I'm not sure, but I think it does.

I know you want an immediate answer but they don't come that way. It will happen when it does. The physical universe sustains us and so this is how we see, real or illusion, it doesn't matter. And this is something we teach not only ourselves, but our children as well, just as we were taught, and they will teach their children and on and on it goes. Above all Galaxy, what you speak of is a cycle. It's only natural. Harshly put, we are made to see what others have seen. I even think History (time) has or plays a part in memory.

In the end we will find the answer very simple I am sure. I would encourage you to continue talking to others and go with your heart and prepare yourself for a most excellent journey.