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Author Topic: Letter to President Bush  (Read 7129 times)
Beth
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« on: May 10, 2006, 00:42:27 »

Hey all,

At the risk of moving too much into the political realm, I am starting a thread regarding the letter sent to President Bush from President Ahmadinejad of Iran.

I think it is an excellent example of how the impact of religion cannot be ignored as a major factor in what is going on in the world today.

Moreover, it is clear from this letter that all three of the biblical religions are going to have to "face off" sooner or later...with each other and with the rest of the world. It also looks like "sooner" is going to have to be the case.

In response to the letter, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice dismissed it as “a diversionary tactic,” saying: "It isn't addressing the issues that we're dealing with in a concrete way."

I just read the letter, and while he definitely returns again and again to the topic of religion (primarily holding Bush to his profession of being a Christian), the way that Ahmadinejad actually “addresses the issues that we are dealing with” from his perspective are quite clear and very concrete.  

In fact, and this is a positive aspect, as far as “addressing the issues” themselves, I don’t know how he could have gotten any more concise!

As a solution to all of our problems, however (and this is where the negative comes in), he is calling for "global unity" under a "biblically based monotheistic banner."

If you all can take a little extra time to read the whole thing, I would really like to know what you think...If you are interested in the state of religion in the world today, then it is definately worth the read.

Here are the links from NPR (National Public Radio):
 
PDF version of the letter itself from NPR:
http://www.npr.org/documents/2006/may/ahmadinejad_letter.pdf


The NPR story:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5392883


~Beth
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2006, 02:06:27 »

The problem I had with it is that it adressed too many issues, and some of the thought processes were contradictory (in my opinion).  For example, he spoke of the 'poor people of Africa' but forgot to mention that (is it Uganda?) many are being slaughtered by arabic bands just for 'being black'.  That's just one topic that caught my eye.  It seemed to me that he was painting everyone as Christians, including the state of Israel.  It sounded to me as if he were reading from a long list of grievances, that became true because of the Iraq war, which was (to me, anyway) dishonestly engaged, then everything else under the sun was included.  I guess he didn't get the memo that Pres. B. doesn't listen to anyone!
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2006, 02:06:27 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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Beth
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2006, 03:58:50 »

CFT,
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The problem I had with it is that it adressed too many issues,
I thought that too (about mid-way through the letter) but...after some thought, I could see where ALL of these issues are quite related, in that, he consistently and clearly "calls Bush on his actions" regarding those issues by holding them up in constrast to his profession of being a Christian.  

In other words, instead of "What would Jesus do?" per se, this guy is obviously asking Bush "What should he be doing, IF he is truly a Christian?" There is definately the implied undertone of Bush's religious allegience being questioned.

As to grouping all people as Christians, I must disagree; he specifically states that "hundreds of millions of people" are both Christian and Muslim and "millions" (notice he doesn't use the word Jewish) "follow the teachings of Moses." Surprisingly, he then tries to unite "all three" of them through their all being "monotheists" (page 13.) There is definately the implied undertone of religious superiority for the "religion's of the book."

I am not sure why you think that his grievances became true because of the war in Iraq; the whole WMD fiasco is just one more grievance on his extensive list. Iraq is not what is motivating him to write this letter. Rather it is the fact that the US is going after Iran for their nuclear experimentation.

While he obviously left out the bit about the Africans being persecuted by the Muslims, he--in no way--covered ALL of the global issues at hand. He cannot--he is blind to many such atrocities, just like Bush is. IMO, their monotheistic/male dominated religions prevent them from seeing a great many travesties in this world, e.g. just to name one of many--aid workers in Africa molesting young girls: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4983440.stm

I feel safe in assuming that he is also being hypocritical in that there is surely proverty and unemployment in his country as well!

Please do not think that I am in favor of this guy at all: I DO NOT agree with his solution, or his religious politics/government.  

I am just in agreement with his critique of Bush, and thought the letter was very interesting because his candor was very surprising. He is really trying to force Bush to take a look in the mirror.

Quote
I guess he didn't get the memo that Pres. B. doesn't listen to anyone!

Or the addendum to the memo that explained that even if he did, Pres. B would never be able to read someone else's opinion for 18 WHOLE PAGES!! wink

I also thought is was interesting that he hints at a conspiracy of 9-11 and further implies that the Holocaust never happened. shocked
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Beth
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2006, 04:24:00 »

Are you serious runlola??? :question:
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gdo
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2006, 02:36:50 »

What difference would it make if President Bush was dyslexic?

What does that have to do with the topic?
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2006, 02:36:50 »



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gdo
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2006, 02:43:11 »

Is President Bush the President of the United States or is he a religious avatar speaking for the Christians in general?

Perhaps the letter should have been sent to the Vatican or some tele-evangelical.

The Iranians pov is sophomoric.
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Beth
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2006, 02:46:06 »

Quote from: gdo
What difference would it make if President Bush was dyslexic?

What does that have to do with the topic?


Nothing in the big scheme of things, it was just ironic that this is a letter written to Bush that he might not be able to read for himself.

It was just a side-note observation...
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Beth
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2006, 03:32:52 »

Quote from: gdo
Is President Bush the President of the United States or is he a religious avatar speaking for the Christians in general?


He professes to be a Christian and used his Christianity to moblize other Christians into voting for him in both elections. He makes no secret that his administration is a Christian administration.

Bush has also said that he is following the will of God because God tells him what to do. It has even been said that he has a messiah complex:

http://www.todaysalternativenews.com/index.php?event=link,150&values%5B0%5D=2&values%5B1%5D=570

http://www.hws.edu/news/update/showwebclip.asp?webclipid=621

http://www.counterpunch.org/hill01042003.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6863874/the_rs_blog/

etc., etc., etc....
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Beth
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2006, 03:34:30 »

Quote
Perhaps the letter should have been sent to the Vatican or some tele-evangelical.

The Pope only has power in the Catholic Church...the Christianity of Bush is Protestant Evangelical, and the tele-evangelists have been keeping the airwaves HOT with their opinions...but at the end of the day, they are just  that -- hot-wind opinions.

Besides, the pope is not the one that has the power to do the things that the Iranian president is calling upon Bush to do...

I think that the Iranian President could be challenging Bush to "put up or shut up" and openly come out to the world that he is running a Christian administration -- and not against all other religions -- but as one of the religions of "the book."  Muslim leaders are quite secure using their religion as a basis for their governing, but Bush cannot do that quite as easily. This probably gives Muslim leaders more confidence that their people are behind them in every way. It lends them a superiority that Bush does not possess...so perhaps the president of Iran is suggesting that Bush take the authority that God has given him and bring it out in the open...or submit to Islam if he cannot.

Quote
The Iranians pov is sophomoric
Yes, but by comparison, Bush would sadly be in about the 3rd grade of elementary school...

~Beth
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2006, 12:03:02 »

Quote from: gdo
What difference would it make if President Bush was dyslexic?

What does that have to do with the topic?


I think I am sometimes.  I'm always swaping letters or numbers  I believe bringing up the dyslexic was to make him look "less".  Which is sad because there are a lot of smart good people that have it and are thought to be dumb.   Sad, sad, sad...
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zyzyx
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2006, 18:39:26 »

In my tiny amount of time in this world, I have observed that the big kid rules the playground.  Bush's America is the big kid right now, and he's simply ruling the world as he sees fit.  I wouldn't want to be the big kid though.  If the big kid is too much of a bully and mean to the other kids, then they will likely rebel and try to gang up and defeat the big kid.  On the other hand, if he is too easy going, then the other kids won't respect him and he will lose control.

As for me, I am perfectly content being the observer.

-Z
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greatoutdoors
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2006, 20:18:51 »

I read about half of the Iran letter and called it square. It is drivel for the most part and even the part I read had enough lies and distortions to drive a truck through. The author, like everyone else on earth it seems, has an agenda. Give me a bleeping break!!!  rolleyes

So now on to a little Bush bashing of my own. (Oh lord, I could write a book!!)

As to the Iraqi war, does anyone know when Norman Schwartkof retired? If, as I believe, it was right around the time the Iraqi war began, I think I know why. Politics aside, when you go into a fight, you go in to win. But the good ole USA went in to "shock and awe" everyone. Some politico (Bush I guess) wanted a showy, short fight. At the time I wondered why in $#*&% we were pushing so fast and not stopping to wrap up and secure things behind our troops. Did they think the Iraqi army was just going to quit and go home? Idiots!

As justification for the war, and once it became clear we weren't going to find any smoking WMD type guns, Bush said our reason for fighting (aside from bringing democracy to the masses) was to fight the war on terror. I bought into that. After all, if we fight them over there, then we won't have to fight them over here. However....

After some good starts at cutting off terrorist funds by confiscating or freezing suspicious funds (Billions of dollars), our noble leadership has apparently decided it is okay to let that little effort die on the vine. Bottom line, from what I hear the terrorist money is flowing again.

Second, while making loud noises about airline security and tapping telephone conversations, Bush has left our borders (north and south) wide open! Anyone, carrying anything, can come into the US at any time.

I just heard yesterday that even that is not enough. Bush has ordered that the Border Patrol headquarters provide office space to Mexico. This is so the BP can give Mexico daily updates on where any civilians (Minutemen or private landowners) might be watching the border. That way Mexico can guide foreign nationals to safer crossings.

The radio commentator said the Mexican consulate's office in our Border Patrol has the authority to tell our agents where to patrol and what to do when they get there. Cool, eh?  evil

A question to those of you living in countries other than the US: How often does your country take orders from foreign nations on how to conduct its business. I am not talking "advice." I mean "orders."

I have not phrased the above very well, but it's hard to do when you are swearing!

Bush's war on terror so far has consisted of committing our troops to a very long and dangerous war for nebulous purposes; creating MORE bureaucracy by adding the Dept. of Homeland Security, and basically saying "borders, what borders?" when it comes to protecting our own turf.

In my personal opinion, Bush and every other politician in Washington who feels the status quo is acceptable, should be 1) impeached or removed from office and 2) sued for malfeasance and dereliction of duty. Treason doesn't begin to describe it.

Now before some idiot jumps on me for being anti-immigrant or some such, let me clarify that I have no problem with folks coming to the US, providing they do it legally. I have no problem with people remaining in the US, legally.

I have a problem with people jumping ahead in line just because they can, and then being told by our "leaders" that it's okay, since they are already here. What about the poor idiot who was stupid enough to try and get here legally and has been going through that red tape for years. Oh, I know "sucks to be them."

I also have a problem with the fact that foreign nationals, including terrorists, can freely vote in US elections, and have been doing so for years! Another question: Can anyone name another country that lets foreign nationals choose their leaders?

And I have a big problem with the fact that any of the 10-12,000 illegals that come across the border every day could be carrying those WMD Bush is so concerned about, while Bush (and the Texas governor) just sit back and say, "Oh, it's nothing to worry about."

Okay, rant finished, I feel better now.  :redface:
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2006, 21:19:56 »

Quote from: Beth
Quote from: gdo
Is President Bush the President of the United States or is he a religious avatar speaking for the Christians in general?


He professes to be a Christian and used his Christianity to moblize other Christians into voting for him in both elections. He makes no secret that his administration is a Christian administration.

Bush has also said that he is following the will of God because God tells him what to do. It has even been said that he has a messiah complex:

http://www.todaysalternativenews.com/index.php?event=link,150&values%5B0%5D=2&values%5B1%5D=570

http://www.hws.edu/news/update/showwebclip.asp?webclipid=621

http://www.counterpunch.org/hill01042003.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6863874/the_rs_blog/

etc., etc., etc....
 This is what really scares me.  I wonder what's next on his agenda, after he can't run again? *shudders*
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thesickmoon
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2006, 22:07:19 »

Quote from: CFTraveler
This is what really scares me.  I wonder what's next on his agenda, after he can't run again? *shudders*


Declare himself dictator?
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2006, 17:17:45 »

greatoutdoors - So, your criticism of Bush is that he isn't doing enough in the War on Terror?  And that border security isn't tight enough.  Closing our borders won't stop terror.  Nothing will stop terrorism.  A war on terror is unwinnable.  Just like the war on drugs.  Isolating ourselves and removing freedoms will only hurt ourselves and make the terrorists victorious in their agenda to destroy freedom.  It isn't that Bush hasn't done enough, it's that he's done too much.  Way too much.  The war on terror should have never been declared.  The department of homeland security should have never been created.  And, the CIA torture camps definitely NEED to be shut down.

-Z
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greatoutdoors
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2006, 19:46:33 »

Z,

No, my biggest criticism of Bush is that he talks about a "War on Terror." We are not fighting one. On a larger scale he is doing exactly the same thing that Clinton did, and Bush the Elder did, and Carter did, and so on ad nauseum -- playing politics!

I agree that nothing will stop terrorism. There will always be loonies who want to kill just for the sake of killing. However, I also believe that if you have murderers on your doorstop, it is only logical to at least try and close the door!

I agree that the Dept. of Homeland Security should never had been formed. That was one time he had my jaw dropping. All that added was another level of bureaucracy and another huge hog-trough for the politicians. Oh, well done!! evil

I also agree that any torture we are doing should stop! However, I don't think making folks wear pink uniforms is torture (as some have said). We would have to talk about definitions before I understand what you are saying on that one.

I guess I shouldn't let any of this bother me. The politicians are going to do whatever they want to do and there's not a #(*% thing we can do about it. My only plan right now is to vote independant as much as I can, and against every incumbent otherwise (of either party). It's not much.   angry

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The war on terror should have never been declared.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. What would you have done after 9/11?
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El-Bortukali
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2006, 20:35:41 »

I would have done nothing.
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zyzyx
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2006, 00:11:09 »

Immediately after the 9/11 attacks, President Bush said it best when he said it was an attack on freedom.  If only he realized the truth of that statement.  By removing freedoms in the spirit of national security, he has completed the mission of the terrorists.  A vast majority of the people being held for alleged terrorist activities have never been formally charged.  

I find it hard to believe that we would go through the expense and trouble of having overseas prisons in countries with much more lax laws concerning the treatment of prisoners just to make them wear pink...  But, then again since when does the government wisely spend it's resources?

-Z
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Doch
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2006, 08:43:57 »

Quote
What would you have done after 9/11?


Bush should have admitted the need for the USA to change it's foreign policy.
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Doch
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2006, 08:58:02 »

And I really think that people should now be aware that the Iraq situation can be best understood as being an effort to control Iraqi oil production... basically to get it back onto the world market.
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thesickmoon
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2006, 20:28:37 »

Quote from: Doch
Quote
What would you have done after 9/11?


Bush should have admitted the need for the USA to change it's foreign policy.


Even if it was an inside job.
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gdo
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« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2006, 02:30:23 »

LOL  Back seat drivers and hindsight opinions.  

The fact is GWB is the President.  

Just because he is a christian does not mean that his is a fundamentalist christian administration.  

On the other hand, the Kennedy's are alleged Catholics.  Oh, what a fine reputation they have as a 'ruling' family.  

And also remember that the president does not 'rule', as such.  

A person may not like him or his party, that does not make him a bad person or a bad president.  But I understand that personal preferences for the parties involved will make it difficult to see the reality of the situation.
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