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Author Topic: Zoroastrianism  (Read 2567 times)
mattrox
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« on: January 28, 2004, 23:39:09 »

any zoroastrians??? [V]
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Gandalf
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2004, 11:30:41 »

Check www.religioustolerance.org which has infor on this religion.

It is still practiced in Iran and some other areas.
It has had a great influence on late Judaism and Christianity.
It was from Zoarastianism that Judaism inherited the concept of dualism, that the world is a battleground between opposing forces of good/evil. The concept of a leader of this opposing force (Satan) was only formulated in the second century BC.
This dualism concept was later take even further with Christianity.
Its very interesting when you think how used we are to this concept, we think it has always been around, but such a concept would be quite alien to Classical thought.

Classical thought (Greco-Roman) thought more in shades of 'grey', everyone was a complex mix of moral shades, even a creature who was nasty, like the Gorgan, might have some nicer characteristics as well.

In many ways the classical way of viewing this is much closer to our own post-modern viewpoint, where the judeo-christian (and therefore Islamic) black/white division is seen as simplistic.


Zoarastianism is also monotheistic but there is some controvesy about which influenced which, with the Jews convinced they came up with the idea first, and the opposing view of those who think that zoarastianism influenced the early polytheistic jews.

The latest thinking suggests that both are wrong, as there is some evidence that both groups may have formed monotheistic philosophies  independently of each other.

Douglas

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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2004, 11:30:41 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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mattrox
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2004, 01:20:32 »

can anyone answer some questions about it for a better understanding?
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Isiah
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2005, 06:47:35 »

Quote
Check www.religioustolerance.org which has infor on this religion.

It is still practiced in Iran and some other areas.
It has had a great influence on late Judaism and Christianity.
It was from Zoarastianism that Judaism inherited the concept of dualism, that the world is a battleground between opposing forces of good/evil. The concept of a leader of this opposing force (Satan) was only formulated in the second century BC.
This dualism concept was later take even further with Christianity.
Its very interesting when you think how used we are to this concept, we think it has always been around, but such a concept would be quite alien to Classical thought.

Classical thought (Greco-Roman) thought more in shades of 'grey', everyone was a complex mix of moral shades, even a creature who was nasty, like the Gorgan, might have some nicer characteristics as well.

In many ways the classical way of viewing this is much closer to our own post-modern viewpoint, where the judeo-christian (and therefore Islamic) black/white division is seen as simplistic.


Zoarastianism is also monotheistic but there is some controvesy about which influenced which, with the Jews convinced they came up with the idea first, and the opposing view of those who think that zoarastianism influenced the early polytheistic jews.

The latest thinking suggests that both are wrong, as there is some evidence that both groups may have formed monotheistic philosophies independently of each other.

Douglas


Although, there really isn't any proof that judaism got the concept of good and evil duality from zoroastrianism.
Zoroastrianism would have experienced very limited if any encounters with judaism. Zoroastrianists did not exist any place close to the hebrews.
Iran is quite a fair way away from where the hebrews were.
It is also somewhat of a misconception that judaism even has a concept of good and evil duality. The jews veiw the garden of eden story for example, as not involving lucifer (or sammael is the hebrew name for him) but literally a snake, and the story is of how the snake lost its legs. The fallen angel story is quite different in the torah as it is to the old testament of the holy bible. In the torah, the story is of a king and not an angel of heaven. Modern judaism does not really involve Satan very much, or a cosmic duel between a good God and an evil god. People assume that it would since christianity developed out of judaism, but even in christianity, is there really a good and evil, white and black, light and dark dualism?
The old story does talk of the fallen angel (lucifer) in the old testament (ezekial and Isiah). In the new testament Satan is made out to be a spiritual enemy, the roaring lion (corinthians). It encourages spiritual warfare against satan and demons. Not alot is said about demons, but that they are the pagan idols, and can posses a person. Angels are spirit beings just above humans created by God to totally serve him and act as messengers. There isn't really a concept of a good vs evil cosmic war between God and angels and satan and demons.
The zoroastrians do have a concept of one good God and one bad God, but they also beleive in and worship many other gods, which either serve good or evil. Zoroastrianism and Judaism are very different. The concept of 'duelism' if there really is any in judaism and christianity is actually ver differnet to zorastrianism dualism. Besides, there is good vs evil dualism in the pagan religions all over the world, including those that were very far isolated from the hebrews. People just assume that good and evil dualism of judaism must have been taken from zorastrianism because both religions existed in the middle east, however iran is a pretty long way from egypt and northern africa.
And as you said Douglas, there is no evidence to support that any one (zoroastrianism and judaism) borrowed from the other, but evidence to indicate they are both seperate.
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2005, 11:45:59 »

Some guy I met told me once that he thought that at the base of Z'ism was the so called "lost tribe" of wandering Jews. Have any of you ever heard of the lost tribe and if so could there  be a connection
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2005, 11:45:59 »



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Gandalf
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2005, 19:36:43 »

yes, Isiah but there is a great deal more cultural/philosophical/religious intermingling in the Near East back the than you assume.

For example, during the jews stay in Babylon they inherited many ideas including the practice of a hereditary priesthood, before which they had none, it was also there through this exchange that they came into contact with duelism. Of course 'duelism' forms part of many beleifs, in fact it is a basic way of human thinking so all forms of thought can be said to be 'duelistic', what i mean is the concept of religious duelism, where the dual aspects of the world are pushed to the forefront as one of the main features. In Babylon, jews took this idea on board as well a developing a far more complex vision of the afterlife concept of heaven/hell (although 'hell' didnt have the 'fire and brimestone element back then), before which jews only had a very vague notion of the afterlife, which didnt differ overly from the 'hades' model of many other cultures of the time.

Also due to this intermingling in Babylon jews came into contact with the chaldean mystics and it was from this meeting of minds, that the jewish mystical tradition first started up as much of this astrological/mystical lore was taken back with the jews when they returned, and was later developed along its own lines. Likewise, during the 3rd century bc the 'dark side' was eventially personified via 'satan'
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