AP/OBE and Shamanism

[Tisha]

Rats, I just posted this in the wrong place!  I meant for this to be in the OBE Discussions section.  Oh well!


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[James S]

Tisha,
this info has really piqued my curiosity. I've not actually had any real knowledge or contact with anyone that has knowledge of shamanism. I found this breif article of yours VERY interesting.

I don't know if you have read my post on the spiritual development section titled Belief Overhaul, but I now have acknowledged my very strong and personal belief in the spirit of nature, and our interaction with it. This information really strikes a chord with me.

Do you know of any connections between Shamanism and any Celtic beliefs? I can never fully explain it, but despite being a few generations Australian, my mother is very much a Celt, and I have often felt a strong pull towards their beliefs and ways, There is some ancient power or consciousness at work here, like it's in my blood, and what you described of shamanism seems to fit in.

James S

- You don't choose the belief, the belief chooses you!

[Tisha]

James,

I wouldn't be surprised if ALL tribal cultures had their shamanic aspects.  The Celts (they were the Gauls in the Bible) started out as very fierce tribes (my maiden name, Kimball, supposedly translates to "warrior chief").  Once Celtic culture became agricultural in its focus, it was probably "post-shamanic" as long as the practices and beliefs continued in some form.

Of course, the northern europeans who continued to follow shamanic practices were called Witches and killed by the Inquisition.  So, much of the tradition died out.  Modern "witches" are trying to revive the tradition, albeit in a half-a**ed, fantastical kind of way.

By the way, if you like the King Arthur legends, they have many shamanic threads running through them.  Merlin was a shaman/druid.


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[James S]

Yes, I've always been fascinated with the Arthurian legends. For some reason I always wanted to know where the isle of Avalon is, though it was to be hidden. Just love a good mystery

Merlin had been classified by some as a necromancer, but I always believed his practice to be one of nature-based magic, or witchcraft.

Modern witchcraft has been overly glamourised by hollywood (though I confess to enjoy watching Charmed). It seems a result of this, there has been a large resurgence in the wiccan practices, though as a long time practicing wiccan collegue tells me the numbers of young girls who all want to be witches tend to drop off dramatically when they start to find out what it is all really about. From what you've told me shamanism is as directly linked to witchcraft, yet not as widely practiced as wicca.

Forgive my laziness here for not going and doing my own research, but is shamanism a more spiritual oriented practice as opposed to wicca being a more physical oriented one?
I had a quick look through my local library this morning but couldn't find anything on shamanism. I did borrow a book " the elements of natural magic", but I haven't yet seen were it will go.

James S

- You don't choose the belief, the belief chooses you!

[Tisha]

OK, I'm painting my closet so I must be brief:  If you are interested in Shamanism or Witchcraft, please-please-please avoid the WITCHCRAP sections of your local library or bookstore!  They contain volumes and volumes of silly, regurgitated, poorly researched/referenced indulgences, usually written by well-intentioned Wiccans trying to make a quick buck.  They have pretty pictures, however.

Stay tuned and I'll get you a reading list.



Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[Frank]

LOL

This is not the first time your terminology has given me a good chuckle... Witchcrap... that's a good one. Though please don't get me wrong, it's not per se, but in a sense of commercial -versus- real.

Yours,
Frank

[Tisha]

For those of you who might be interested in the connections between the OBE experience and shamanism, here is part of an article on shamanism:

Science, Spirits, and Core Shamanism
by Michael Harner

An earlier version of this article was presented at the Annual Meeting of the American Anthropological Association, December 4, 1998, in Philadelphia.


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Shamans have long acted on the principle that humans are part of the totality of nature, related to all other biological forms, and not superior to them. This "pagan" principle was one of the many reasons that European shamans were persecuted by the Inquisition and that indigenous shamans elsewhere were likewise condemned by Western missionaries who considered such a view as contrary to the Biblical account of the origin of man and woman. Indeed, it was not really until Darwin's The Origin of Species 1 and The Descent of Man 2 that Westerners began, often reluctantly, to return to a general recognition of humankind's kinship to all other life forms. In other words, the West, through science, finally adopted a position for which it had long persecuted and ridiculed shamans.

Another basic implicit principle in shamanism is that there are two realities and that the perception of each depends upon one's state of consciousness. Therefore, those in the "ordinary state of consciousness" (OSC) perceive only "ordinary reality" (OR). Those in the "shamanic state of consciousness" (SSC) are able to enter into and perceive "nonordinary reality" (NOR). These are both called realities because each is empirically encountered. Each is recognized to have its own forms of knowledge and relevance to human existence. 3

NOR is not a consensual reality, and indeed if it were, shamanic practitioners would have no function, for it is their responsibility to alter their state of consciousness and perceive successfully what others do not. One of the distinguishing characteristics of the shamanic practitioner is the ability to move back and forth at will between these realities with discipline and purpose in order to heal and help others.

A corollary principle is that the individual forms encountered in nonordinary reality are themselves real. These are called "spirits," and are considered real by shamanic practitioners because they interact with them first-hand. This interaction involves direct perception with all the senses. In other words, for the shamanic practitioner, the existence of spirits is not a belief or hypothesis, but an empirical fact (see also Turner.4 In NOR, shamanic practitioners routinely see, touch, smell, and hear spirits; for they find them as real as fellow humans they interact with in OR. As they work, individual practitioners discover which of the encountered entities are personal helping, or tutelary spirits, which often provide miraculous help in healing and divination.

Another characteristic shamanic principle is that living members of all species, including humans, have souls, or lifelong personal spirits. I am defining the soul as the spiritual essence of the individual required for that individual to be alive. Thus it is present from conception or birth until death, although the degree to which it is present may vary. Upon death, the soul continues to exist, as it did before birth, but the length of time it does so as an identifiable entity varies. For shamanic practitioners, souls are identifiable entities because they encounter them directly in nonordinary reality, as they do other spirits.  

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There is more to this article, but it is a little long.  Just thought I'd share.  


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"