Message for Frank

[wildbank]

Dear

I read your post, and I think you are going into it too hard. Wanna know a quick way to trance?  Go hiking on a beautiful day on those cliffs in British Columbia til you find a most awesome spot, maybe where there is some sand. Form a nice body contoured mattress out of the sand quickly, and just soak in the beauty. Chant some melody that sounds good to you, let it all go. You'd be in a quick trance! Have some bottled water along, don't eat.

Do you see ANYTHING with your eyes closed? If someone tells you not to visualize, must you obey? can you allow a teeny variation from procedure til you "find" the best method for you?

Also, determine the PURPOSE of your out of the body exploration. Where do you want to go? Name that location repeatedly while you trance out. Your third eye focus is fine, it is my favorite too.
If you KNOW where you want to go and what it looks like, go ahead and visualize it, until you forget about it or get distracted by trancing. Just relax and accept what your perceptions give you.  Maybe a bird will chirp and you hear it but don't open your eyes, it lets you know you are almost in or out of trance, but it is easy to stay in trance. I do this in sleep, before I open my eyes to get up, I SCAN for dreams and stuff that I got out of my exploration, dreams, what have you.  

HAVE YOU BEEN KEEPING A DREAM JOURNAL? That trains your mind to collect data and sensory material from OBE, DREAMS, etc. You are going to need that development. DAILY.

I practice being always mindful, always mindful, so that I am perceiving even while I am asleep, in trance or whatever. It is an alertness thing. Someone says being well rested is good to have.

What are you expectations out of this out of body thing?  Moonwalk? what?! that is important, otherwise, you might be staring at floorboard or a socket and not know what it is. Sometimes the force of wanting to go someplace specific is enough to propel you out of the body.

One funny method would be to walk toward a wall, with the intention of being on the other side of the wall. If your mind is relaxed, and firm, you might find your mind on the other side of the wall while your body is stuck on the wall in the other room. It works something like that.  The rope is just one of the methods. If you scuba dive, you might find FINS a good one. It is about propelling, I guess. Even a tub drain is another good one, if you want to go subterranean! Just let go, and without fear. Don't over do the hemi-sync. Instead remember the tones by memorizing it. That alone would relax you. Be a relaxed person. Another good idea is to do a floatation tank. Maybe that is the one for you.

If you dream easily, it can be easy to astral project. Don't give up.

Watch your affirmations and listen to yourself. Are you saying, darn, ugh, this is hard, this is frustrating?  that is self fulfilling. Act like you have the ability and snap, it happens.

Hope this helps. And you do not need Robert Bruces' address. He does reply to email. Unless you are willing to fly to Australia where he lives. Read all these postings, they are helpful.  Hope I helped!

[Leviiathan]

Thanks for answering. Unfortunately, I cannot respond to all of your answers and advice, but I will in time (perhaps).

Part of training is also observing. Often, I make note of just about every little thing I go through. It helps because it allows me to figure out how I can improve, what I'm doing right (or wrong), and what truth may be held in strange things I experience.

My dreams are very, very vivid, thank you. I cannot say I entirely recall the experiences. What I remember are the emotions and feelings, moods and thoughts I endure. It's like an afterimage that lingers. I believe that because I pay attention to my dreams and muse in their nature, my experiences have enriched as a result and become all the more vivid. I have dreams that seem indestinguishable from reality now. Just yesterday I dreamt of phoning someone I've been aiming to call for the longest time (but haven't been able to reach).
He answered the phone, I heard his voice, and the reaction was the one I (would normally in real life hope for). It also goes to show that what you believe is what occurs (in dreams at least). He was very optimistic and eager to hear from me, and his voice was as clear as anyone I would have been speaking to in real life (that goes to show that it was clearer than speaking normally on the phone).
I've done lots of fun things with my dreams. My brother is one of the more mundane types. He admits that he has no control over his dreams because, while dreaming, he accepts the bizzarre and eccentric as to be normal. When I dream, it is very different. Lately, I seem to mingle in the bizzare and play with my dreams... without being in a Lucid state at all! (Yes, I am very close aren't I ). I've done many interesting things, including pulling a Matrix special effects stunt. Have I fought and outrun those agents before? You bet. I've been shot before, and at that moment have though "I don't like this" and completely rewound the situation so as to react and take destiny into my own hands. Very amazing things. Your advice in keeping a journal is grand. Good advice. Everyone should do it.

Being woken up (in a half-sleep state), and falling back to sleep with a hemi-sync on also yields very rewarding results. I recommend people try that.

I would also like to point out that I tend to bend the rules and experiment. I've been given that advice on many occassion and it seems that it's naturally been something I've taken into practice. My questions, however, concern the fact that my focus shifts frequently. Yes, I can keep a clear head (I believe). It is another matter though that my focus doesn't want to stay put. I would rather get some advice in learning how to keep it focused on a specific boring, monotonous, repetative process that brings an effect... rather than spending wasted effort trying to find the answer myself.

[noitarbiv]

quote:Originally posted by Leviiathan



[snip]

Being woken up (in a half-sleep state), and falling back to sleep with a hemi-sync on also yields very rewarding results. I recommend people try that.

Hemi-sync is ok as long as you know that it's not good as a replacement of conscious effort. Conditioning a dependance on gadgets might not work out so well.

[Leviiathan]

I took the advice of the person above and found that reproducing the hemi-sync sounds in my head had a similar effect.

Hmm... seems Frank hasn't replied yet. Wonder what's holding him up <=|

[Frank]

Sorry for not replying sooner but the comprehensiveness of your post is a bit difficult for me to take in. I read through what you say at least twice a day trying to form some kind of concensus as to how best to reply. On the one hand, you near perfectly describe the typical frustrations encompassed by beginners. To which there really is no hard and fast answer: yet, on the other hand, I feel sure I can come up with some more pointers that will hopefully lead you further towards your end goals.

Yours,
Frank

[Leviiathan]

Frustrations. Of course, you are a person with great advice, and given my circumstances, I feel you'd be able to at least give me some faith, hope, and advice that can help me through where I'm at.

Anyway, where shall I begin.



Do you know Robert Bruce's email address?
It's in his treastie, but I feel that it may have changed since it was written. I'd like to contact him because I feel he could give me the best advice regarding his techniques (and entering trance).



It seems to be around 3 - 4 months since I found a renewed interest in AP and began practicing it again. It has also been 3 - 4 months since I started posting on this message board. When I began posting here, I had many questions about things and I was rather flustered over things (Trance, Rope). Sadly, I did not get the answers to my questions, mostly because people were unable to relate to them. It got to a point where in my practices I took on the role of not just the practioner, but also the student. By becoming a student and observing my experiences and the factors behind them, while experimenting at the same time, I was able to grow into a teacher in some ways.

I am not knew to the scene. In fact, I have had many 2 month attempt phases that I would fall in and out of with gaps ranging from 1 - 2 years. I took interest in Parapsycology, AP, OoBE, Hypnosis, Trance, and related studies 7 years ago. I have read several books, as well as a number of related f.a.q.s online. With the addition of these past 3 months, I have learned far more than I ever have in those times. I have learned things that books namely do not teach and have learned that the logic behind those guides follow by a hard-to-lay-out "easier said than done" process. Afterall, if AP was THAT easy, we wouldn't have need for forums and online discussion groups now, would we.

In recent days, I have come to understand completely why I am a spiritual anarchist. I do not believe in the destruction of religious infrastructure as it is completely necessary for society. I am benign on that issue. I have mingled in religion several times and even take an interest in reading the gospel from time to time. Ironically, I do not share many views and ideals as expressed in those contexts. I would consider myself agnostic in some ways, but a firm believer in God in others. The reason I am not religious is because I feel that those systems are dry and that they are too mundane for my standards. Like a plant, I need water to grow, and to me, those systems do not offer me the water I need to flourish. They confine, restrict, and prevent the individual from maturing. Spirituality for me is about experience and growth, and about journying within myself and finding more about who I am as an individual. Consider it a spiritual extension of introvertism. Astral Projection, OoBE, Meditation and Energy Raising, though found within New Age, are things that satisfy my level of spirituality.



My current predicaments are no different form the ones I was having problems with before. I am still having problems obtaining the body-sleep state as well as problems in properly putting sufficient pressure on my astral body to form a separation.

Below are situations which you can no doubt comment on



Getting Ready::
It's anywhere from 8:00pm - 1:30am. It can be any time during the day.
At night, I take a shower. Sometimes, I don't take a shower. Next,  I do the recommended tensing to relax my body. Ironically, this seems to provide very little help. I then lay down on my bed. Sometimes I lay under the covers of my blanket. Sometimes I lay on top of the covers using a thin blanket. I have one pillow under my head because two pillows is uncomfortable. Sometimes I have a fluffy pillow for my feet to sit on. I rest it so that it is just above my ankles/heel and supporting the area above there. If I have my heel is resting on it, the pressure of it digging into the pillow becomes a minor distraction.

After Laying Down:
Sometimes I stare at the ceiling for a minute or two and just breath in and out. Most of the time, I just close my eyes and begin breathing in and out. My mouth is often closed so I breath in and out out of my nasal passage. My head is either looking up, or tilted to a 45 degree angle. When I do let my mouth hang open, it is not very open.

There are times when I have headphones on and I am listening to either a brainwave generator plugin or a hemi-sync. Lately, I'm strung as to what I should do. I feel that the headphones, as applied to my ears, create a stress that is easily felt. I am usually aware of them. The hemi sync or bw plugin often helps relax my body and dim my awareness. It also helps to block out sounds. I've had rather interesting experiences with those alone, but I would be ranting away from the subject. I'm figuring I shouldn't use the headphones as an aid. Dependency is not an issue, but the fact that I am aware of my headphones is.

Going back to the first paragraph, I begin by focusing on my breathing. I also center my attention at my third eye and try to focus beyond it. At this point, it's hard to say how things exactly go. I could say that my focus wanders so that it's never on one thing for very long. My definition of focus was different initially, but at this point, I believe it to be different. I'll be visualizing my body from a third-person perspective (while feeling part of it), then things will be different. I'll have my center of focus crunched up in my third eye, so I'll just be focusing on darkness (and not visualizing anything or focusing on my body). When I said visualizing, I shouldn't say I'm actually picturing it. I should moreoverly say that I am "sensing it". The fact that I sense its dimensions and properties creates a form of non-image visualization in my mind. I do not see a picture, but it is as if I do. It is hard to describe.

Robert Bruce says do not visualize, yet I am unsure as to whether I am or not. Naturally, when I focus on say my body, it creates a non-illustrated image in my mind. It is one without properties, yet the fact that I am aware of the object allows me to... be aware of something (I do not want to use the word "see". I find that to be inconsistent).

Going back to the Focus issue. That's a problem. My mind changes focus very quickly. I have paid more and more attention to this and find I cannot climb ROPE sufficiently because my focus-shifting is a big problem. It is not so much a problem for things flying into my head. The problem lies in sensing/visualizing/shifting. Part of the situation is manual, where I am not making progress with something so I shift my mind to try something else. The problem, however, is entirely automatic.

Entering trance is harder-said-than-done. Even when I give it my all and entire focus, it's not enough. My attempts achieve a pathetic level of progress. Even when I close my eyes, hold my focus as the center of my third eye, just beyond it, without wandering, I can never achieve the trance state (on a common basis). This "never" is not a belief, it is a summary of observation. This is not an issue of mind-over-matter, where disbelief has some sort of role in my lack of success. The success I have on days where I am absolutely energized and ready and beliving is no different than days where I am not. The difference is that on the days where I am in good spirits, I merely try to prolong the purpose and I end up burning myself out. To give you an idea of how far I am willing to go, I will spend up to an entire hour simply trying to enter a trance so that I can move on to the next step (projection attempt).

The formula for entering trance is simple. It involves maintaining focus, having a relaxed body, and inducing some sort of an artificial falling sensation. This doesn't seem to get me very far. I have no idea why, but it's a nuisance that practice does not seem to be amending. I want to take a break on meditation for a few days, so when I come back, I should be in better spirits than I am right now (Zapped)

While attempting to enter trance, I have actually experienced the following:
Expanded Energy Body (that no longer occurs. In the last 3 months, I have not experienced this), Vertigo / Disorientation (the vertigo is not to be confused with the falling effect), heaviness (though when I've attempted to climb Rope, my body still reacts and I seem to come out of this state), Rocking / Mobility (This is relative to vertigo. While I'm attempting to focus on a single, falling, downward sensation, I'll be feeling something entirely differently. This is usual and it feels like a doughnut-rotation effect where I'm moving in a centrifuge), Pressure (Occurs in the abdomen area. It's not a feeling of heaviness, well, I have no idea. It feels like weight (say bricks) are being placed on that area. As I breath out through my stomach, I feel more pressure being placed on that area. It becomes harder to breath in with my stomach)



I've tried the technique you told me on various occassions (keeping the mind busy with something simple). I'm still naturally aware of my body. The problem, in this circumstance, as I would come to understand, is that I'm watching for something. I don't want to miss the boat. I want to be able to know that I've entered trance or some deep level of meditation then take advantage of it to proceed. Either that, or the process gets repetitive and my mind just loses focus and shifts onto something else. There might be another reason why I don't necessarily use this tech. It comes across as passive to me and it seems like it would take forever to get somewhere with it. I feel that I could get into a Trance state by a faster means (directly) rather than a passive method.



The biggest problem I had encountered had been Involuntary Muscular Response. Now it seems that ever since I got over that, I no longer easily experience vibrations. It's a pity because I can climb Rope, and feel the symptom of rising, but never get past it. I can continue on with it for 10 - 15 minutes and not achieve anything. By that point, my mind shifts its focus to try something else so that it can succeed.

I've attempted to not visualize Rope before, where I'm simply watch an imaginary arm throwing itself out. I've experimented with watching an arm throwing itself out and throwing an imaginary arm out and feeling it. Feeling it causes involuntary muscular response and the more intense I make the feeling, the more the stress becomes. The stress is usually so subtle (very, very, very light tensing), but inclining as I do it. When I don't visualize Rope, I see nothing. I climb at darkness and ultimately find my focus wanes and shifts. Sure, I can start out with the assumption that there is a ROPE there, but in time, my mind loses focus of that, and while I continue to try to climb, my mind is already starting to shift.

Naturally, I visualize the ROPE. Difficulties are provided, however. When I close my eyes, I am looking up from my bed-time position. I stare up and see a ROPE. I cannot feel it attached to me, but I can see a ROPE. As I climb it, it's as if the ROPE, while linear, is apparently curved. I climb it and the climbing starts to reach over me. It's as if the position of the ROPE changes completely. It is no longer straight up, but rather, slanting. Eventually, I'm climbing at a flat zero-degree angle. Because I have to continuously shift my focus (and the ROPE) to prevent this (i.e. fight this), I do not get very far. This is probably why I have trouble projecting: my focus.

This is probably another reason why I cannot successfully achieve Trance: focus. Of course, even when I am properly focusing, I still cannot enter Trance.

What I need are some ways to get around the problems I have expressed. You have read how my mind continuously shifts its focus and seems to be out of control. Yes, that is it. My focus is out of control and I am continuously trying to control it. That is my situation in a nut shell... plus other problems (relating to Trance).



On a side-note, often I get woken up early. My brothers go to school, so they get up at 7:00. I like to sleep in to 9:00. It's an inconvenience to be woken up every day because I have to sit through it. I'm unable to get back to sleep. I use hemi-sync, bw-gen to prevent these distractions from getting to me. Of course, when I fall back asleep with one of these things going on in the background, it often leads to some really interesting experiences. There was one time where I kept phasing back and forth between dreams and reality (in one or one-and-a-half hours). It got to a point where I knew that I could close my eyes and immediately fall into a dream state. Somehow, I experienced a lucid state because of it, though it was not the type of lucid state one would expect.

Another experience, which I recall, was unfortunately rather vague. I remember being in a three dimensional blackness. I cannot account whether this is while I was dreaming, or not, but I recall being unaware of the state I was in. Right now I'm getting another memory. I think I was in my room. And yes, right now I think it was indeed a dream. Anyway, the idea to Astral Project came into my head. Reality shifted and I was in that three dimensional blackness, and I climbed Rope. Very, very shortly into the exercise, I was floating up and I was in my room, observing in third person perspective (as I do with all of my dreams). I floated around the room like Peter Pan and that is all I can remember.

I also had another dream where I was in the bathroom trying to observe the aura of my hand as I do sometimes. At first, it was going in the same way as it does in real life (I cannot see Aura very well), but then I suddenly could. Milky colors seemed to phase into view around my hand. There was a very thin green base with a deep saphire blue and thing streaks of egg-yolk yellow (1 centimeter) at the edges. I know that my aura is very heavily blue in real life, and since I was dreaming, I was wondering if I was in fact seeing my aura.

I also wondered that because I attempted to AP in a dream without realizing that I was asleep... and I did... that I was in fact... AP'ing? Perhaps it was just an extent of my dream.

Anyway, thanks to Frank (if you read this and respond).
Kudos to anyone else who reads this and responds.

Ciao,

~Levii