Is Sai Baba GOD?

[Ex Baba]

laughing*

- Why laughing? This is a serious matter

"isn't cult brainwashing"? you're onto me.. I mentioned not believing "reports" someone raped or killed based on biased websites because im actaully a devout follower of someone i've never heard of, read about, or care about.

- Ofcourse cult is brainwashing. Websites are just a 'means' like any other medium, all stories have been checked before they were launched on the website.

Seems you think just because there are rapists out there.. everyone who is accused should be slandered all over the web.

- Ofcourse this is not so, we're just discussing the Sathya Baba from India, and it is no slander, all reports are verified, as I just wrote.

Im not saying the catholic priests didnt rape.. but we cant be so blinded by personal experiences we vote to fry any person who was accused even before the court case.
There are guilty people and there are also falsely accuesd people.. they both have rights.

- None of us are blinded by personal experiences, we just woke up out of a dream... Baba has had enough chances to defend himself, but he never gave any appropriate answer. 'You don't bargain with God" is what he says...

You obviously are confused and think im saying he didnt do any of this.

- No, I didn't...

I am saying this isn't the p lace.. no message board is the place to accuse someone of rape.

- Ok, then I will leave...

Are these your real names? the guy that accused him is his real name exbaba?

- My full name and address are on the site, I am the website moderator... usually I am not the one who provides articles for the site, I am the coordinator and webmaster...

see why there's little credibility online just to accuse and leave? its way too easy to sit around saying stuff when you're just a moniker.

- Ok, that is so... I won't run away just like that...

If you're really that upset about it start some groups off the computer.

- I am already in:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sathyasaibaba2/messages

Demand an investigation.

- We did, eh... someone of us did, the case was prematurely dismissed... pro Baba people have decided this, just before we should have that case, ask Hari Sampath (harisampath@yahoo.com) great effort was done by him, to collect the evidence for a trial...

Btw what are these sites that detail all these boys? I honestly would like addresses so i can START to form an opinion.

- http://www.exbaba.com, English and then click Sites.

But obviously because some guy comes on with the handle ex baba and makes accusations thats enough proof for you.

- I don't understand? What do you mean?

I myself like to judge my opinions based on facts

- Which counts for me too...

and to make absolutely sure the person doesn't have an agenda or hatred toward the person and therefore is making claims that aren't true.

- I haven't too, you may see it as a Mission, struggle against sexual abuse, being performed by Sathya Sai Baba from India... it is for... the boys in Puttaparthi, it is for... the mother on this forum who wrote that her two daughters were abused... it is for all sexually abused persons...

exbaba to get a real feel of your wesite could you also post everything else you've accused him of?

- 30000 printed pages? Impossible, have a look yourself, have a look at http://www.saiguru.net as well...

Again I am not saying he did/didnt.. i do not know of the guy and aparently hes a really weird or shady guy.

- I am not interested in that either, there are no feelings of hatred, only justice has to be done, and is done at this very moment, Baba is being exposed by several website, people are warned by us...

But your website isn't a victims advocacy page that has a real time address...or something trying to help the victims.

- It is ! Click on the button Recovery !!! Have a good look at our site !!!
Its a page that tries to show he's a rapist murderer.. and i didnt go through enough to see what else you've acused him of.

- I know, it would take you months... Baba is not a murderer, there were murders in his bedroom yes, and he knew what was happening there, but he sure is a rapist of boys:

---

From The Findings (click button on http://www.exbaba.com

Dr Bhatia, why did he leave?
Source : Name withheld at request. (Available for investigation by authority)
Subject : DR BHATIA (HEAD OF SSH BLOOD BANK). WHY DID HE LEAVE?
Regarding the notice of expulsion of Dr Bhatia in the Sanathana Sarathi magazine, please note :
Three young students from Sai Baba's junior male college were called for interview. One of them, a seven year old boy student, came out of the private interview room crying.
He continued to cry for two days, and was unable to eat or study.
That evening Dr Bahtia, on duty in the children's canteen, was asked to find the cause of the child's distress.
He questioned and then examined the child, and found that he had been sexually penetrated, via his anus.
The child was taken to Bangalore and re-examined. A second medical opinion confirmed sexual abuse.
Dr Bhatia had been involved in sexual activity with Sai Baba for six years,  believing that he was serving divinity.
He went to Sai Baba :
- Why do you do this to such a young child when you have all of us adults and the older students to play with?
Sai Baba's reply :
- Don't bargain with God!
Soon after, five men went to Dr Bhatia's home, threatening his life with knives.
He made his escape by car, fleeing to Delhi.
Once there Dr Bhatia was unable to practice medicine because he had left all his personal papers behind in Puttaparthi. He wrote asking for them. They have not yet been released. However, the doctor now practices at a Delhi hospital.
A promisory agreement has been offered from Puttaparthi, that Dr Bhatia's personal belongings will be released to him on the proviso that:
he remain mute about the happenings concerning the little boy student
he does not make any legal claims against the Super Speciality Hospital
he keeps his sexual relationship with Sai Baba a secret.
A rumour given out for his 'dismissal' was that he was caught selling blood, another that he was having an affair within the ashram, and yet another claiming jealousy between departmental heads at the hospital.
I offer this for the sake of truth.

---

See the difference.. I feel like im talking to a brick wall. You have every right to have a page trying to prove he's the anti christ.

- I am not interested in that, let the world be aware of what really is happening in Puttaparthy, instead of talking on higher planes...

Molesting boys is only one thing you accuse him of out of how many?

- Don't know, watch the site, there is financial fraud, fraud on water, the stories he tells his devotees are not ok, he is lying... whatever, read the site...

I really would like you to say here what all you think he's done.. I know theres rape and murder.. what else.

- Isn't it enough? Do you want more? So people go there, in order to come at a higher spiritual level, and all they get is SEX?

And btw even if benny hinn or some other person i know about and cant stand was accused i wouldnt go along and say. ooh poor poor kids.. because its plain ignorant to base your opinion on what someone said on a board.

- Would you say the same, having two abused daughters, like the mother on this forum? Our concerns are mainly to the victims, they have all given their permission to distribute their genuine story, we have this website to warn people, to go to Puttaparthi, these are not hearsays...

Thats exactly why i think it was appropriate to say "you can post the website but please dont summarize" in other words let everyone see the quality and/or bias of the websites.. the resources and judge for yourself.

- Let everyone do that, let these sites be a warning to All...

I am dropping this subject however.. for the simple fact it gives people the chance to bring up murder rape etc on a person instead of just directing us to all these websites and letting people judge for themselves..

good luck in your quest for whatever.

- Thanks...

one last thing.. you brought up Michael Jackson.. thats a good point.

I actually heard when they released the phone recordings of jacksons attorneys with the "victims" parents and their attourneys. What were they negotiating? The price the parents would accept to drop he whole thing. Now some would see this as why would jackson pay to have it dropped. Any accusation of rape.. the accusation itself not the proof hurts high profile people deeply. The longer its in the news the longer he has to put up with "jackson raped a little boy".

But why were the parents negotiating for money. If your kid was sexually assaulted would you agree to forget about it because Jackson agreed to give you 300,000 or whatever it ended up being. Who had the most to gain from that? When i heard them negotiating the price i cringed.. the lawyer saying how they wont accept a sum under X amounts to drop it.

They eventually got a sum they were comfortable with and .. no trial.

I really dont think thats a good example to use to prove someone raped someone. And to imply if a person doesn't think they did they're brainwashed.

Sorry to get so off the topic but that in itself is a good example of a person being tried in the media.. not the courts. And people taking their opinion based on the accusation.. not the proof.

- I don't know too much about the Jackson story, nearly 99,99 percent of the stories are not mine...

Bye !

Ex Baba

[kakkarot]

well i have found no court documents regarding sai baba having anything to do with any sexual ... anything. the only court documents that i could find, on exbaba.com, were about a possible murder that took place at sai baba's mansion, or something.

as well, with all the accusations against sai baba, could it be possible that he did that to everyone who makes a claim against him? no. he'd have no time to do anything else. so even if he did do something to someone, no proof can be found, and the shear number of accusations does more to diminish the possibility than it does to back it.

this is my conclusion.

~kakkarot

[Ex Baba]

e

quote:Originally posted by kakkarot

well i have found no court documents regarding sai baba having anything to do with any sexual ... anything. the only court documents that i could find, on exbaba.com, were about a possible murder that took place at sai baba's mansion, or something.

- (Sigh...) You are boring...

as well, with all the accusations against sai baba, could it be possible that he did that to everyone who makes a claim against him? no.

yes.

he'd have no time to do anything else. so even if he did do something to someone, no proof can be found, and the shear number of accusations does more to diminish the possibility than it does to back it.

this is my conclusion.

- wrong conclusion, we can give you all the mailaddresses of the victims, they will be happy to inform you of more evidence

~kakkarot

[b]- At least admit that it is very hard to read 30000 pages in a short time, you don't know what you are talking about, help yourself on http://www.exbaba.com[/b]

[MJ-12]

dd

[kakkarot]

yes, mj-12, even the law can be bought. but what it would mean to find a court document is that even a single accuser would have a case to take to court. otherwise, any one can ACCUSE someone of anything, but that doesn't matter.

if there are SOOO many people who were truly victimized by sai baba, then how is it that not even a single court document was filed? why did not even ONE "victim" take him to court? after all, the law of probability would conclude that with the thousands of allegations laid against him, at least one person would take him to court, if they had valid grounds to do so.

~kakkarot

[Leyla]

Sai Baba will never see the inside of a court room.
He is a holy man protected by the government of India. He is like a national treasure, and India isn't a free democracy like in America and Europe.

That's what makes it so tragic. He has free reign to do as he pleases.

If an American football celebrity like OJ Simpson can get away with killing his wife, what are the chances a supposed "Holy Man" with a following of millions would ever be convicted?  

Even people who are still in the Sai Baba cult "don't doubt the sincerity" of the victims claims.

They believe the men belive they were raped. They have rationalized that they are all under the influence of some evil spell.

[Leyla]

You people are just skimming the page without reading it.


"You're just making anonamous accuzations against sai baba!"

-You have already been provided with a link to the full names and mailing addresses of his victims. scroll up.

"ExBaba is just a hate site!"

-It is a victims advocacy and action site. You have already been give these links. Scroll up.

"Oh yeah? Well then why is't there a court case?"

-The case was thrown out. They are trying again and again for action. The government will not listen. You have already been provided with the link. scroll up.


ExBaba- I am with you. You are doing important work. If you can't get him locked up, then at least educate as many people as you can.

[silva]

1.) to exbaba I thought it was obvious I was laughing at her comment about brainwashed cult followers suggesting I was one for not making up my mind or frying a guy based on a website of a guy who obviously hates him.

2.) Is that your website?  if so i read your personal account you were a devout follower of his for years you believed he was really doing the  magic tricks?  And you even refer to him in godlike terms.. that type of infatuation isn't healthy.  I think you should question why you were so deeply taken with him then... and now.

Dont you find it ironic you dedicated all those years in essence worshiping a human being? You were in a way obsessed with him.  For a person such as myself who worships no human or even thinks any human is godlike that strikes me as odd.

This isn't an insult but the truth.  Do you see the irony that you're so obsessed with him now? How many years are you going to spend in one way or another obsessing about this man.

3.) you or whoever wrote that site solicited abuse stories.  I saw the part where you asked anyone with sexual abuse experiences with that guy to submit their story to you.. that creates a biased right there.  They weren't unsolicited reports.  Also a person who is looking at negative sites about the guy obviously already dislikes him or has a bias.  I have also seen way too many lies and elaborate stories printed when their only source is the internet.
These werent stories you gathered from independent sites each with no relation to each other.. you asked specifically for stories with such content.

4.) to the person who commented adrian or anyone here might be defending him because this board was linked or rb likes him?  I for one have and ill repeat NEVER heard of him before.  If i did i dont remember.. now my problem is with ANY website that has a very obvious agenda.  This isn't a third party respectable site just reporting the news about sai baba.  there is a very clear cut agenda when you read sites like that.. and I for one am intelligent enough not to base an opinion on it.

5.) When you have such a wide base of followers and are that well known and controversial you are going to get reports of everything and anything on the net.  I have read sites stating that people like john edward (who yes i have respect for) is a satan worshiper and an evil person. If he had contact with children im sure that many who dispise his message.. or religious fanatics.. im sure a few things would be cooked up about him.

Anyone who thinks spreading rumors based on the fact a person was once a follower and now hates the person and decides to spend time creating a website accusing them of rape murder and god knows what else is doing something good should perhaps think realistically or realize there is a such thing as a falsely accused person.

One other thing that I guess is a little unfair to say but ill say it anyway.  The cult mentality suggests things in and of itself.. people join cults for many reason.  Sai baba is actually playing with fire being a high profile cult type leader (if he is a cult leader which i haven't heard anything to the contrary on this thread.. which obviously doesn't mean anything) But lets say we all agree with that...  The types of hatred you get with that are going to make the controversy about you different than lets say the controversy surrounding a rock star.

I guess I dont really know how to put it except cult/religious leaders.  Anyone that is dealing in those matters and who has a lot of personal contact (physical contact) with as many people as their exposed to really run a risk of this type of thing.  
So in a way for me when i heard someone say so and so raped someone.  I'd need actual proof off of the internet where rumors are the norm, before i decide to spread that rumor or in anyway believe it.. This is because of the hatred I know some people feel towards people who let them down as spiritual leaders.  Especially if being in a cult itself kinda suggests easily manipulated personalities.  Or personalities that are really looking for a savior type.  

I stay away from cult followers and cult leaders.  I think some reading this might understand what I mean. Im not trying to offend anyone but theres a certain mentality there that i just dont trust.  On both sides..

I havent made my mind up and all im doing is questioning the sources.. if you notice i haven't said one positive thing about him either.  I cant imagine a website online that isn't either filled with his followers or people who hate him.  So from the internet i dont think i'd be able to base an opinion.  certainly not from what ive seen..

[Ex Baba]

quote:Originally posted by Leyla

You people are just skimming the page without reading it.


"You're just making anonamous accuzations against sai baba!"

-You have already been provided with a link to the full names and mailing addresses of his victims. scroll up.

"ExBaba is just a hate site!"

-It is a victims advocacy and action site. You have already been give these links. Scroll up.

"Oh yeah? Well then why is't there a court case?"

-The case was thrown out. They are trying again and again for action. The government will not listen. You have already been provided with the link. scroll up.


ExBaba- I am with you. You are doing important work. If you can't get him locked up, then at least educate as many people as you can.

Hi Leyla,

Thanks for being with me (us)...

The existence of http://www.exbaba.com (and many other sites) should speak for itself, I (we) wasn't (weren't) directly aiming at Court procedures against Baba, the site was originally setup to gain as much material as it could on this matter of fraud and sexual abuse, and thus confirming what you wrote in your last sentence, by this activity educate as much as many people as I (we) can...

Bye !

Ex Baba

[Leyla]

Sylvia-

You have based your opinion on the mistaken impression that ExBaba is
"Just one Guy." with "Just one Website."

He is not a "obsessed" lone wolf crying in the wilderness.

Especially in Europe, there have been entire television specials about SaiBaba's shadiness. And several newspaper investigations.  A simple google search will produce hundreds of sites like ExBaba. Go look.

There are video tapes availalbe online of him doing "slight of hand." I have watched them.

It is fairly common knowledge that the Indian government knows what he is doing and does not care to stop him. Even the Indian newspapers are calling for action.

Several Indian men have new stepped forth claiming to be the "real" Sai Baba.

Thats why people are in a hysterical fit. They have good reason.  In fact,  I can't think of a better reason.

[bomohwkl]

I cannot even liken Buddha as God (The creator of the universe), surely I cannot liken Sai Baba is God no matter how sincere and how much integrity and how much wisdom Sai Baba or Buddha has. A god, should have the conscious knowledge of how to create the universe at least.
As Buddha has said, the universal truth can be verified by everyone through observing the reality of the universe. Whatever SAi Baba said, I have not be verified by my own observation. THere are just too many misinformation in the field of spirituality. I have to safe-guard my consciousness as it is the only thing that actually me.

[Tab]

What is this crap? No major avatar is going to manifest for a long time, and when it does, it won't be materializing seiko watches. That right there should be enough to show you it's crap.
I'd be a bit dismayed at Robert's judgement if it's true that he respects this joke

[Mustardseed]

OFCOURSE he is not God. HE DOESN"T have a long white beard[]

[Nick]

Wow, this topic started almost 10 months ago and still appears to have some life left in it. There isn't much I can add to what I've read. I do have an observation which I guess is pretty obvious. That is, on the one hand we have people seeking spirituality and that is a good thing. Yet on the other hand, many of these "devotees" believe that the spirituality they are looking for resides within this person in India. In my opinion, seeking the spiritual path within themselves would be most preferable.


Very best,

[shaman]

I knew Sidi Bel Abbes, a little locality in Morocco where the French army had once a head quarter (Legion Etrangere)

I knew Ali Baba and the 40 thieves...

I knew the Big Fat Baba, he was my 300 pounds neighbour.

and now I know Sai Baba...

For sure it seems that people have naively gone the wrong way. How one could believe in the spirituality of a person who is "materializing" watches (no matter if they are 2000 dollars rollex or 30 dollar timex) and rings to give to his disciples. First I do not believe one can materialize anything from nothing, and the energy it takes to materialize 30 gm of matter is enough to burn a whole building (from simple relativistic energy mass equation e=mc^2). Second this is not spiritual at all to give things that are so material to disciples. The world materialize says it all, it is matter not spiritual. A good master give spiritual things, not material things to his disciples, and what he gives cannot be seen as it is inside the person... I do not even need to consider the sexual assaults and harassments that have been brought up to the day light (there is not smoke without fire...), it is enought to consider such a material present as a watch or a ring to understand with whom we have to deal.

Leyla I stand by you!

I did not forget the 800 people who commited suicide some 20 years ago, who belonged to the Moon sect (or something similar). I do not forget neither those 10 (or so) who commited suicide in order to be able to get a ride on the Hale-Bop comet! (in 1997 I think. by the way, they were all castrated as part of their "cult"). So there must be an end to these abuses.

[What Tha Phak]

lol another title to attract the crowd.  My answer is no.  But, ironically, yes.  The following is my paraphrased version of an article written about him:

  One day a reporter walked up to Sai Baba and asked, "Are YOU God?"
  Sai Baba replied, "Yes."
  This came as a big surprise to the whole crowd and the reporter, leaving them restless and looking as if a horrible crime has been commited.  After a few brief moments, Sai Baba added, "And so are YOU, along with everyone else here."

This makes sense so far and it SEEMS that this guy is a man of great wisdom and advanced enlightenment.  But what is really behind all those "magical" tricks that he shows to prove to the crowd his "Divineness."  Isn't everyone Divine?  Why must he have so many followers that look up to him so much and give their spiritualism and devotion all to him.  Wouldn't a greater lesson, be "not to worship false gods?" Let alone, even adore another person at all?  Aren't we all supposed to find the Source of Being within ourselves?  Why do formal texts present him as either "Him" or "He".. ?

I've read reports which people have witnessed him materialize matter out of thin air with a simple command or gesture, such as the pendant that he wears around his neck.  Some people explain how he does these "miracles," but I must see it with my own eyes.

Something tells me this guy is a fraud.  There seems to be an endless supply of people willing to give their minds away, so mindlessly. excuse the pun.  David Baily claims he knows what he is talking about when he says Sai Baba is a fake and a lie after working with him for over 20 years.  Baily says Sai Baba is a involved with rape, child molestation, and even killings.  Well, when someone is considered a "walking god on Earth," that would be easy, wouldn't it?  The watches and jewelry that Sai Baba claim to have materialized from another dimension (and says are extremely valuable) are said to be manufactured exclusivley for his "Magic."  In fact, upon taking one of these pieces to a jeweler, Baily is told that it is invaluable and states there is a silvery paper in back of the jewel piece to give a glossy appearence.  The jewel was removed and there was indeed a silvery paper on the back.

I also read reports of how a lot of Christians die while handling snakes... This is done because in Mark's Gospel, Chapter 16, verse 17: "They shall take up serpents."  Now Dewey Chafin quotes from American People Magizine, "See, I handle serpents because it's i nthe Bible, like a commandment. And I drink strychnine because the Bible says it won't hurt me. Now, either every word in that Bible is right or it's wrong."  

Maybe there ARE some truths to major religions, but the was I see it, they are nothing more but a bunch of over-sized cults.  That's why I stick to my Paganic ways, heh.  There's no room for people like him pretending to be something they're not.  But with todays New Age thinking, who knows.... he may just be the anti-Christ, or another version of it.

"It has served us well, this myth of Christ."  - Pope Leo X