Lost Versions Of Christianity

[Beth]

Ghostrider,

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This makes me very happy!!  Yes, the earliest forms of Christianity were VERY different from what we have today.  I have tried to make some posts that compare other ways of thinking today with the message that was being spread nearly 2,000 years ago, e.g., lucid dreaming, OBE, and contact with the spiritual realms.  

The Gospel of Mary (a hugh chunk of which is still missing) directly addresses what appear to be different dimensions, or realms, through which one must pass to reach enlightenment--or Christhood.  Early Christianity was a VERY SPIRITUAL practice that was based upon a very different philosophical/theological system than the Church ultimately adopted.  

The Gospel of Philip tells of how one must achieve "resurrection" BEFORE one dies, and the Gospel of Thomas discusses what I think is the astral-self, as well as what we would consider "mind" or "consciousness" as that which permeates the entire universe, plus so much more!!  

I do not watch a lot of TV, but if you are aware in advance when some of these shows come on, I would really like to know about it!  Would you mind posting it here in this thread if you think of it?

Keep your eyes and ears open--things are definately changing!!![]

Peace,
Beth

[GhostRider]

You know what?  I'll take you up on your offer and I will as often as I can post these shows coming on in advance. Some of what you said suggest that it was probably fairly straightforward why the church supressed these gospels.  If they suggest what you say they do, they'd be dangerous in the hands of young, budding, free-thinking minds.  A concept that clashes dangerously with established/state religions, world governements and other powerful groups who had a vested interest in keeping the people ignorant.

I'm glad someone else knows about the Gospel of Mary and St. Thomas.  Did you know that some Catholics do as well?  My wife for instant, knew of these texts, but I guess it was a case of, "didn't ask, didn't tell".  Turns out that when she was going to university, she had to study some of these works, but I didn't go to a private catholic university.  I'm a community college grad myself, before I went on, and didn't hear squat about these texts.  I guess I have to be like the wise man who admitted there's so much more I DON'T know than I know.  

So in the spirit of opening eyes and ears... I'd love to post some showtimes and dates for this FINE group of astrally-minded folk.

[Beth]

Ghostrider,

You're ON!![]  I previously set up threads for a few of these, so I brought them back up to the top and made them stickies for you to look over.  There is however, a lot more than can be discussed about these gospels.  I provided links for the Gospel of Philip and the Gospel of Thomas if you want internet copies to read!  Let's discuss some of these gospels!  

You wrote:

quote:If they suggest what you say they do, they'd be dangerous in the hands of young, budding, free-thinking minds.

The interesting thing about this, is that 1,700+ years ago, when the Catholic Church was officially made the Roman Empire's primary religion, virtually EVERYONE was illiterate and by today's standards "ignorant."  

Today, however, things are MUCH different in that MOST people can read and write for themselves, and just having a high school education puts people today far above the standards of previous centuries.  We can now buy these books, read them, discuss them, and yes--have very free-thinking minds, but also, we can actually CHOOSE whether we want to adhere to a particular religion or not.  That is really a phenomena of just the last 50-100 years or so.  

Interestingly enough, YES--the Catholics DO know more about a different version of Christianity than do the Protestants.  For example, I remember several years ago, a woman that worked with my mother came into work crying and VERY upset.  After finding out what was going on with her, my mother told her to call me on the phone.  What had happened to her, was--she was a Southern Baptist who had become engaged to a young man who was a Catholic. At the very first catechism she attended, the priest discussed with the class that Adam and Eve were NOT REALLY the first humans, that this was "just a story!"  Bless her heart!--This simple revelation totally rocked this woman's world!![:O]  The priest, bless his heart, didn't even have a chance to talk with her about this--she immediately RAN from the room and drove home alone!  I did the best that I could to talk with her, but, I knew it would take her some time and a lot of prayer to move through this ordeal.

The reason I am telling this little story, is that MANY Christians have no idea that there IS any other version of their own religion, nor do they know the bitter/sweet history of their official Church.  I remember being in class one day when we were talking about how many GOOD things that the Church has done, from providing a moral standard to live by, to the many other things that are Church sponsored like disaster rescue efforts.  Then someone quietly made the comment that by NOT BEING HONEST with their members about the reality of scripture and the history of the Church, that it was actually doing its members, and the world at large, a great deal more HARM than any of the many HELPS could justify.  Silence fell over the room.....

So anyway, today we have choices, we have knowledge, we have the ability to discover many other ways of understanding our world both past and present. In my opinion, it will be up to the Church as to whether they ever decide to "come clean" and "be honest" with their members.  Every new day provides a brand new day for Christianity to become a responsible religion.  If it does not--it will not be a solid standard much past the 21st century.  In essence we are no longer an ignorant world and people will be increasingly more hard pressed to accept the fiction as fact.

Peace,
Beth

p.s. REMEMBER--FICTION IS NOT A BAD THING.  Fiction is a GREAT teaching tool--but--it is a teaching tool--NOT ABSOLUTE TRUTH.[]

[Gandalf]

As well, some interesting takes on the Christian message have arisen, such as you might find even today in modern China with a form of Christianity that is far older than the United States or the discovery of the New World._
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Erm... christianity IS far older than the United States or the discovery of the New World!!!
Sorry, I just thought that statement was a bit obvious, seeing how the United States has only been around for a couple of hundred years and the Americas themselves were only rediscovered in 1492 (The Vikings under Leif the Lucky, son of Erik the Red, had previously discovered and set up a colony on Newfoundland around the year 1000.. cf the Vinland saga)!!!

Anyway, I agree with what you're saying!

Regards,
Douglas

[GhostRider]

I should've made that clear about when I thought the New World was discovered... but I'm glad you agree with the facts I brought forward.  

I do believe the New World was discovered even earlier than the Viking settlements would suggest, I'm Scandanavian myself and adhere to the Viking's as being the first Europeans over here.  However, there has come to light, ancient Chinese maps that are quite startling, and you won't hear of any classically trained historian speaking up about those maps discovery either... (I could never figure that out, train all your life in the pursuit of the truth of the past, then when you find something startling, earth-shaking, cover it bloody-well up...strange to me...) These maps have a very detailed drawing of the west coast on them.  The Chinese were in California long before their (much-later-arriving) progeny were forcibly situated there to build the railroad and help with it's fledgling economy...at least the maps would suggest that.  But you won't hear of this on the History channel, not yet at least.

But even taking into account ALL of the above... the advent of a uniquely Eastern-orientated Chinese Christianity is STILL older than all of that.  Not that it's age matters. But it ranks right up there with the fact that I like to point out to most folks over here in the southern states, of, "So you think you're the christian epicenter (other than Rome and Jerusalem of course) of the whole world?"  "Then you'd be suprised to know there's more Christians in China than there are PEOPLE breathing and walking in these here United States."  I say this, not to point out that they are unimportant, but to help them realize that Christianity is a HUGE and wide-spread movement and the tiny ripple it's had over here, while being important, isn't all that spectacular.  Of course, it was taken wrongly so I stopped saying it LONG ago, lol!

But that gets us off the point of this post... if anyone out there knows of more sources for this information, please post the weblinks or the books ISP's here, anything would be helpful.  Thanks.

[Radha]

One concept from early Christianity is that what they called "prayer of the heart" is actually very near to Zen.  I had two sisters at our local tell me about the early writings of Evagrius Ponticus, Clement of Alexandria, Origen as well as the Philokalia in the eastern orthodoxy, all talking about this topic.  Sister _____ told me that the society of Jesus (Jesuiti) had placed fathers in Japan asl long as thrity years ago to learn Zen, and that they were now going around the country teaching it to parishioners who were interested.  The official RC name was, I think, Centering Prayer.
Look at Jacob Needleman's Lost Christianity also.  It is not a fast read as Needleman is himself more than well trained and knows how to write with a lot of things between-the-lines.
Radha

[Beth]

Radha,

I have studied Philo, Clement, and Origen quite extensively--and yes--their brand of Christianity was VERY different and extremely personal/spiritual.  Most all of the posts that I make about a different way of interpreting scripture comes directly from their writings.  

I find the differences fascinating--just to name a few:  

In this earliest version of Christianity--Jesus was a "model" par excellence of how we can all achieve "christhood."  Becoming a "christ" was NOT just something that happened to one person--it was the sole goal and aim of ALL early Christians.  

There were also two kinds of baptism:  One was a baptism of water which meant "being born of a woman" and the other was a baptism of "fire" that occured on a very personal level. Basically--this was NOT something that you could "make" happen--it was something that came solely from the Holy Spirit.  In other words, if you have received a baptism of "fire" you would know it.  This was also not "fire" as in the same fire of candles, wood, etc, this was a "white fire" a fire of being "anointed" by the Holy Spirit.  When this occured, the person actually became their own "messiah"--or "master of their own life."  Many people experienced this--but it oftentimes took many years--if not a lifetime--to actually "become a Christian."  It took a WHOLE LOT more than just joining a group, or "deciding to be one."  

Peace,
Beth

[GhostRider]

I've been recently watching specials on Discovery (the lost book of Mary), History Channel, and elsewhere.  I've been reading books on lost sects of Christianity and it seems to me that the seeds were broadcast much farther than first suspected.  As well, some interesting takes on the Christian message have arisen, such as you might find even today in modern China with a form of Christianity that is far older than the United States or the discovery of the New World.  

It seems to be a mixture of Daoism, Eastern Christian Orthodox as well as Buddhism and Confucianism.  They have the most refreshing outlook on christianity that I have ever read or heard of, it's minus all the bullsh*t you'd see and hear about on the crazed fundamentalist christian T.V. channels like TBN, CBN, etc...  it's minus all the doublespeak and guilt-laden mixed messages you'd get from Rome these days, it's just a REAL different and very enlightened (in my humble opinion) interpretation of a religion that most free-thinking and educated (traditionaly or self-educated) folks have all but abandoned.  I haven't been this impressed since reading the books of Bishop Spong.

The book I am reading now is called, "The Jesus Sutras", (rediscovering the Lost Scrolls of Taoist Christianity) Martin Palmer... there are more, but it's nice to start in the singular, it makes your path more straightforward.  Well, if anyone has encountered this, what's your take on it?