AP induction

[Simulacrum]

Hello again.
I've been diligently practicing all the requisites to AP as stated in Astral Dynamics.
Trance induction, relaxation, and manipulation of bodily awareness.

How difficult is it said to be for someone to project from waking consciousness? Do people who are unsuccessful with this resign to projecting from lucid dreams?
Does projecting from lucid dreams help in achieving projection from a conscious state?

What level of trance is required. I can get into light and medium trances pretty consistently (to my knowledge) , but I never get vibrations. What degree of physical relaxation is necessary? Do trance and relaxation have to come together in such a way as to allow for -complete- physical dissociation?

In what order are the prerequisites for projection attained? Are the techniques of rising out of ones body (ie. rope, astral body) practiced after one is in trance, is complete dissociation needed, and are the techniques meant to be used once awareness is already grounded in the astral body and the projector is receiving associated stimuli (ie. vibrations).

Why is it that there seems to be a limit on how far into trance I can go?

Sorry for the lack of fluidity in my questions. I have read and practiced -a lot- to no avail, so I'm assuming I have misinterpreted, or excluded an important piece of knowledge, which is why I am asking so many seemingly unrelated questions here.

Thanks for reading.

[Frank]

The circumstances you find yourself in are fairly typical. Unfortunately, there is no specific level of difficulty that can apply. Some people find it easy, some people find it hard, and loads more are somewhere in-between.

Questions such as: does projecting from a lucid dream help projecting from a conscious state? Have no hard and fast answer. It all depends on the individual. Some would say yes, some would say no. I would tend towards the latter as that was my experience. But you may be different.

All you can do, ultimately, is try it and see what works for yourself.

Problem is, with projection practice, people quickly tend to reach the stage where their experiences no-longer support their beliefs; or their thinking becomes self contradictory or self defeating. Projection is primarily a mental exercise, so beliefs are very important - particularly self-limiting ones.

You appear to have been under the belief that if you practised a particular series of techniques with a certain degree of intensity for a particular length of time you should have had some concrete results by now. Unfortunately, your experiences have not matched up to that original belief. In which case my advice would be to have a total rethink about what you are doing and start again. Only perhaps keep a more open mind about it the next time around.

Some people practice for years, for example, before everything finally comes together. Some people get results on their very first try. Like I say, it all depends.

Generally, with me, I find it more productive to focus on what it is I wish to achieve, exactly. Rather than focus on all the nitty-gritty stuff that goes on while I'm getting to where I want to be. Like, for example, I never concern myself whether I'm in the correct degree of trance, or whether this needs to occur before that; or whether my physical body is relaxed enough, and all that jazz.

As another example: people go to all manner of lengths to try and quieten their surface thoughts in order to reach some kind of "empty mind" state before they feel they can project. With me, regardless of what I happen to be thinking, I just focus my thoughts on what it is I want to achieve, and let all the rest of my bodily functions simply get on with what is necessary for my goal to come to fruition. What I find is, if I hold a picture in mind of the end goal, as it were, everything else tends to fall into line. Just the act of focusing my attention towards the right place in mind, appears to set off a kind of chain reaction.

For a time I went through a stage where I tried all manner of things. One "prop" I found useful in my later conscious-exit attempts was the Monroe Gateway series Wave-1 CD (to Focus 10). I had good results with it. Yet other members reported varying experiences from no results at all, through to having good results. So, as you can see, what works for one does not necessarily work for another. No matter how genuine the product, and no matter how many times it may have worked for people in the past, there is no saying it will work for you.

I have tried a number of what are generally called "techniques" such as Robert Bruce's Rope-Trick, for example. This gave me some definite results. And I've tried all manner of other hints, tricks and tips I picked up from browsing the Internet.

I suppose I had to try it all these things to realise that, ultimately, I don't need any of them. Though I'm not saying the experience of trying them all was a waste of time. Far from it, as it got me to where I am today which I am very pleased about.

HTH

Yours,
Frank

[Ben D.]

My two cents:  I think it could be helpful to break down the "steps" to a conscious OBE in the following way (this is only one way out of many, but it's been helpful in my situation).  

Look at the trance state as a way to get to the "floating images and voices/sounds" state, which is basically the borderline between your waking state and the dream state (there are one or more stages "before" this state, such as the "expansive blackness" state, etc., but you know you're really cooking when you start getting images, faint sounds, etc.).  Retaining a memory of making it to this state and back to waking consciousness is an important reinforcement of your continuing progress.  Even if you "jerk awake" after a few second "slip" into the "dream state," and you can retain the "shadow memory" of what it was you were dreaming, that is a big step.  Don't dismiss it as "only a dream" (with the thought that you could have just gone to bed and done the same thing) because that's the point!  It's a natural body/mind process that occurs every time you go to sleep -- you're just trying to remember what happens when you "slip over the line".  

The process/experience might be something like this:  you're in your chair, or on your mat, or dozing off at the office, whatever.  You start getting visuals (patterns, or faces, or shapes, or colors) and or sounds.  That could be stage 1.  Then you go a bit further, and you see a little scene, maybe something as mundane as someone riding a bike in a park.  That's stage 2.  Then, next thing you know you jerk awake.  You think back to what just happened, and it turns out you you riding the bike in the park, in "first person" so to speak.  Big deal, you might say, I dozed off.  But wait a second.  Aren't you trying to "project your consciousness" to another focal point?  Well, you just did!  Maybe after a few times of jerking awake, you can ease yourself into the dream state with a more smooth transition.  

The "transfer of consciousness" is the supposedly tough part, but it's really more a matter of retaining a memory of what the mind already does every night (or every afternoon, if you doze off on your yoga mat trying to "project").  Then extending that memory into a real-time awareness.  Once you can enter a "lucid dream" from a "waking state," (and you develop more control and consistency in getting to the state and remaining in it) you should be able to focus your awareness and visit locales you're familiar with on a more consistent basis (see other threads regarding this practice, like "Astral Meetings"), and voila -- you're projecting.  Don't get wrapped up in the idea that you've got to have tingling sensations, vibrations, a full blown "exit" and the whole bit.  Sure, that could happen, but there's also tons of "back doors" to the inner planes out there, and the point is getting to inner space and bringing back memories of it (at first) which breeds confidence, which fuels the journey further.  

Also, I don't mean to make Frank blush, but (if you haven't already) you should read a lot of his posts on the general subject of projecting.  He has a really helpful way of explaining the practice and theory in this area (of course Robert Bruce's books are invaluable, too).  Frank has definitely helped me out of a couple of ruts with his suggestions.

Hope this is helpful  -- good luck!

Ben D.

[Adrian]

Hello Simulacrum,

The previous responses to your question, which is an excellent question, where also excellent.

I would like to add another perspective to this. We all create our own reality, everything, by virtue of what we focus on an hold in our minds.

Everyone on Earth, quite understandably thinks in terms of "time". Time is an illusion, it does not exist beyond the material world. Beyond the confines of "time" and "space" there is only now, the eternal now.

So what has this to do with projecting? Well everything. One reason why people fail to create the reality they wish for themselves is because they focus on "wanting" instead of "having". Wanting something causes Universal energy to arrange things so that you perpetually want. Creating is all about knowing that what you wish for is reality now and that will then become your reality. This is the basis of all manifestation including "Magic". The most powerful words any human being can hold in his or her mind is "I am".

So, in terms of projecting, "trying" will place you in a state of perpetually trying. Excercises rarely, if ever work because it implies striving to attain something, rather than a knowing that you have already attained it. In the eternal now, you have everything including the ability to project, all you have to do is to bring it into your conscious reality.

Your focus therefore should be on the Astral worlds, knowing you are already there. Visualization techniques are very effective because you focus your mind in the Astral, and your awareness eventually follows.

Another very successful approach is affirmations as you drift off to sleep such as "now I am out of my physical body", of "as my physical body sleeps I remain fully aware", or quite simply "I am now out of my body". As you drift off to sleep you are much more in contact with your subconscious mind which is extremely powerful, and if you repeat an affirmation often enough your subsconcious will manifest it for you. We all project as we sleep, it is a natural function whereby we move out of phase with our physical body, so our energy body can absorbe energy from the Universe; that is why we wake up feeling refreshed and "charged". Usually most people remain "unconscious" durng this process and have no recollection of it. However, by impressing on your subsconscious that you are out of your physical body with full  awareness it will manifest that for you in the form of awaking with the vibrations that are a prelude to a full OBE at which point you can consciously take full control.

In conclusion, as Frank has pointed out, continually trying methods will usually mean that you will continue to do just that, You must know that Astral projection is a natural process that you do, not "might do, or "try to do". Success with OBE/Astral projections is therefore purely a state of mind, not a state of the phsyical body, and all you have to do is to achieve and maintain that state of mind, and also program your subsconscious to do the same. Just before or after sleep at night or a nap is the best time to suceed.

Best regards,

Adrian.

[Simulacrum]

Thank you for the great posts, this seems rather ironic.

About 30 minutes after I created this thread I tried to Project, and almost succeeded
As a side note, I've been practicing about two years, pretty intensively.

Anyhow, I documented the whole event right after it occurred, and I nailed it down to some sort of subconscious process.
Before I was under the impression that this was largely a conscious process. This time however, I made some sort of agreement with my subconscious and passively observed the Giger-esque imagery forming behind my eyelids.

Unconsciousness ensued, then I started rising, I knew what was happening, I tried not to interfere.
The rising was slow, I thought of the rope technique, at which point a white-silvery-misty-shiny rope appeared among the mist, and the process hastened.

Even though I tried to remain passive, my consciousness became aware of my physical body, and I was locked in place from the knees down. In terms of locality, I would have been about 1 metre from the mattress on my bed.

It confirms the ideas put forth that this is a natural process for me, and I feel that the whole process relied upon my convincing my whole to focus on achieving astral projection.

Thanks again for the hasty and insightful responses. For now, I am attempting to replicate this experience