Kerry Won, says investigative journalist

[Fyrenze]

I suppose if Bush would have made THAT executive order in the last four years, one good thing would have happened...He wouldn't have gotten another term.

[halfphased]

I'm just going to give you some links to infromation that you can check out for yourself and thus be better able to make an informed decission about the subject matter.  

I have a couple of movies you can check out.  One is "Outfoxed" which shows just how manipulative the media can be.  Another is "Bush's Brain"  It gives some insight into a man named Karl Rove, who happens to be bush's campaign advisor and political confidant.  I think that if you see what kind of man this person is and what he has suppossedly done in the past, you might see some correlations to some things that have happened recently.  Heck, just do a web search on Karl Rove and see what you find.  All information has a place in our consciousness and to not give all equal attention and consideration might be doing a disservice to yourslef.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/11/con04492.html
and the link to the transcript of the show on msnbc that he references is here:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6452480/

http://rense.com/general59/votse.htm

http://www.rense.com/general59/steI.HTM

http://www.rense.com/general59/rig.htm


The claims that the company Diebold, that makes e-voting machine, has stron republican ties worries me.  The calim that the CEO of that company told Bush that he would give Bush Ohio is disturbing.  The fact that these machines do not leave a paper trail is ridiculous.  You know, it's all good when everyone plays fair and everyone is the epitamy of truth and justice and love and on an on and on.  But, you know what?  turn on that television or  read some history books and you will know that this is not the case.  To blindly believe that the ideal of what America is suppossed to be and what America actually is...  Just because we believe election results are supposed to be the holy gospel doesn't make them so.  there are poeple in the world who don't want to see our version of utopia and they are obviously more willing to create the future according to their desires than we are, since we'll just sit there and believe their lies all the time trusting that things will work out for the best in the end.  I mean, if you're going to take their lie for the truth, then you are allowing them to create your reality for you.  


Does it matter?  I don't know.  Do I go to bed worrying about it?  No.  I live my life in the best way I can.  I know that I create my reality.  Even if the U.S. turned into a martial law state tomorrow, I would still know who I am.  I could still enjoy my existence.  I could still see the big picture.  But do we really want to live that existence?  maybe we could learn what our ignorance does to us and that in order to have the freedom to do what we want to do, we would have to rise up and take the reigns back and you could die in peace with a bullet in the back of your head knowing that you discovered freedom.

I'm completely open to be pointed out errors or inconsitencies in my thinking.  Alternative ways of thinking are welcome and appreciated.  Sometimes I need help from my friends.
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[Jenadots]

Even the most radical, leftist talking heads and the New York Times say there is no evidence of it.  Been all over the news for days now.

Not even Kerry's buffalo herd of lawyers think so.....and as we know, lawyers never turn away from an opportunity to bill those $300 to $500 hourly fees for this kind of work.  

Give it up.  The election is over.  As Michael Moore says:  Move On.

If those of us on the right could stand 8 years of Bubba Clinton, then those of you on the left can stand a few more years of Bush.

[halfphased]

The news doesn't like to rock the boat anymore.  How can you say:

Even the most radical, leftist talking heads and the New York Times say there is no evidence of it. Been all over the news for days now.

when I just gave you links to information that make this statement a blatant untruth?


Left -- Right -- whatever.  I don't identify myself with parties as they are all so far from my thinking.  

It's not that I have to put up with anyone for any amount of years.  It's the idea that we are deluding ourselves into thinking that everything is O.K., in the name of protecting our democracy, when that very act is destroying it.  I can't say I really want a government that is responsible for mass murder and a plethora of other atrocities.  When we give up our ability to check the political process to make sure that it is running honestly then we no longer have any say in how the government is run.  We move on, but we don't fix the problem and then it just happens again the next time and exagerates the problem even more.  All the time, just moving on to the next lie.  Of course, if you aren't going to allow the possibility of thinking that the government might possibly lie to you into your framework, then your government doesn't lie to you.  It just isn't a possibility in your way of thinking.  However, there are an infinite amount of frameworks.  ANything is possible.  So, to deny something as not being possible is to deny the infinite.

[Jenadots]

The only real answer is national election reforms that make some sense - re-register all citizens and make everyone prove citizenship for starters.

No day of the election registrations, no driver's liscense registrations, someone to verify that the address is not a vacant lot or Walgreens or some other business, all absentee ballots to be in two weeks before the election, military and diplomatic corps voting by secure military computers and sent to each person's state.  Any citizen living and working in a foreign country having the right to vote in a USA embassy if more convenient than mail ballots.  

And last, but not least, voting on a Saturday or Sunday with the polls open for 15 hours -- opening and closing at the same time nationwide.  

I would also like to see a ban on exit polls.  I don't care who does them but this is the second election where they have caused all sorts of problems and rumors.  They can't be trusted and only some members of the media think they have any value.

I would even like to see them get rid of those stupid debates.  Just give every candidate two hours of TV time to say:  Here's what I would do as President - here's my policies - here is who I am.  Maybe give them a few times to speak to the nation.

Then we vote 30 days later.  Certainly would be a lot cheaper and they wouldn't have to become campaign money whores just to run for office.

I agree we need to be able to trust our voting process.  We really do need both campaign reforms and election reforms.  Write your senator and congressmen.  If enough people do, one or two of them might actually listen.

[SpectralDragon]

about, "it's congress's Decisions to go to war," yes, in this case it is, however, in the 9/11 incident, it was not thier decision to make.

There are 3 major parts to the federal government: judicial, congress, and basically the president and his men. The president is in charge of keeping the peace, so to speak. congress makes the actuall laws and decisions of the state, the judicial branch makes sure neither of the other two try to gain too much power (which they haven't been amply doing lately) Basically, this means that if, in another country, something is going on that is not an immediate thread, congress makes the decision for war. If they say yes, then the situation is turned to the president, and it's almost exclusively in his hands. If we are being attacked, the congress has nothing to do with the decisions in the first place.

[no_leaf_clover]

Iraq didn't instigate and wasn't involved in 9/11. I don't think many Americans had anything against going into Afghanistan, as long as we stayed on track looking for Bin Laden.

[halfphased]

O.K., so lets just get rid of all ability to check the vadility of an election.  No paper trail on voting and no exit polls!  Let's just believe anything the media tells us why don't we...

Do yourself a favor and look into just exactly how polling is done and how they have refined it over the years.  You will see that the only reason why millions upon millions are spent upon them each year is because they have been proven to work.  


It's like giving a bank robber an invisibility / walk through walls suit.  He uses it and breaks into the bank at night and sets off the alarm and leaves without a trace.  When we goto look at the security video, we can't see anything and don't even bother to make sure all the cash is there.  We attribute the incident to a malfunction.   So, this happens a couple of times and we get tired of these "false" alarms and decide just to rip out the whole security system, so that we can sleep peacfully at night.  


No parties.  You run as an american citizen and that's it.
candidates nominated on a local level and then they go through a series of races.  city, county, region, state, etc.
We get rid of the office of president and replace him with a small counsel.  It's basically what we have now with the president and his cabinet, but this way we have a say in each member of that counsel.  
No private funding of campaigns.  you can't even use your own money.   candidates given free air time.  debates are necessary and required.  no content is predetermined.  all questions from citizens and they last as long as they need to.  you have to answer the question that is asked.
yadda yadda yadda whee

[Jenadots]

I don't beleive much that the media tells us.  As for the exit polls, done by biased news stations who pay college kids a few hundred dollars to do them have shown they have no validity.  These are not professional pollsters who make sure there is a true cross section of the voters leaving the polling place.

Perhaps if they were done by an independent polling organization of professionals, they might have some merit.  But as of now, they are not valid.

Besides, when I was approached by one, I told him I wrote my own name in as I was a better candidate than any of the three listed.  I am sure others may have said things like Donald Duck and Jerry Springer.  They can ask, but I am not obligated to tell them nor is anyone else.

So what was the question?

[halfphased]

Where are you getting your information?  and why do you believe it?

[Jenadots]

On the exit pollster -- horse's mouth.  I asked the kid who tried to poll me who he was, who was paying him, and what qualifications he had that made him a professional pollster.  

Responses:  My name is .........and I am an exit poller.
 
I get paid $200 for the day by one of the networks.  He wouldn't tell me which one.  Don't know why.  

and:  None, I just go to school.

That is who we have conducting the exit polling.  They just walk up to anyone who looks semi-approachable to question.  

Hardly good polling strategy.  And, that is why they don't make any sense and have caused problems in two elections.  Gone are the days when professionals did the polling - this method is probably cheaper.

[glacius*]

[quote} Corruptness in government is by no means any new concept, even in America. Some people are too trusting in those that rule us.[/i][/quote]  

   Government has been corrupt since the beginning of civilization!!

[glacius*]

Maybe there is a form of control beyond Bush, manipulating the people running for office. And maybe they effect how the people running for office appear to the public.  Maybe someone is controlling everything?  

    And they released the new Bin Laden tape right before election. Maybe that was a play by bush in order to win the American peoples favor. Seen as how everyone knows he is so Gung-ho on terrorism they might not want to switch to a peaceful president at such a time because they are afraid of binladin? Its cowardly!

  America is raping the middle east(bush rather, in Americas name) and either way it wont end till all the oil is gone, or you guys get a more responsible president in there. This whole thing is all just about $$ and power.

[Jenadots]

So, Glacius, are you willing to give up your car and walk?  Use a horse and buggy?  Never get on a plane?  Give up all plastics and petroleum based products in your life?

Probably not.  Until some inventor, and likely one of those garage after work guys, invents synthetic oil or an oil substitute, we are stuck with what we have got.

Too bad the country didn't start working on alternatives two decades ago, but it is not too late to start now and put massive amounts of funding and people resources into it.  

As for raping the Middle East, the rulers in most of the oil rich countries have just about cornered the market on that one.  We have actually paid for the oil we use.  That the average person in those countries see only a little of the millions of dollars we spend in them each year is not our decision, but the ones who manage to control it there.  

There are a few countries like Kuwait where the money has been spread around and the people live as well as anyone anywhere.  But that is the exception in that part of the world.

[Anonymous]

I trust no news source. Why should I? No matter where you get your information, it is going to be biased. Everyone is following their own agenda. I don't think there's really any kind of conspiracy going on, but, as an Anarchist, I will not stand behind this country, or any other for that matter. I don't think that not having a government is right for everyone, but I believe it is right for me. I don't need a government so that I will act in a civilized manner with respect for fellow human beings. All governments have laws in place that try to make it illegal for people to be nice to each other. Do you really want to stand behind a nation that is watching you as you read this, just in case you might be a 'terrorist'?

Don't forget, it's not what they show you on the news, it's what they DON'T show you. The Media is owned by very few corporations, and those corporations seek an increase in profit.

What lie will you buy? Democratic or Republican?

Above all else, no matter who you support (if anyone), don't forget to THINK FOR YOURSELF.

[TheDarkApprentice]

I trust no news source. Why should I? No matter where you get your information, it is going to be biased. Everyone is following their own agenda. I don't think there's really any kind of conspiracy going on, but, as an Anarchist, I will not stand behind this country, or any other for that matter. I don't think that not having a government is right for everyone, but I believe it is right for me. I don't need a government so that I will act in a civilized manner with respect for fellow human beings. All governments have laws in place that try to make it illegal for people to be nice to each other. Do you really want to stand behind a nation that is watching you as you read this, just in case you might be a 'terrorist'?

Don't forget, it's not what they show you on the news, it's what they DON'T show you. The Media is owned by very few corporations, and those corporations seek an increase in profit.

What lie will you buy? Democratic or Republican?

Above all else, no matter who you support (if anyone), don't forget to THINK FOR YOURSELF.

Thinking for yourself is hard for some to understand ender. Some people just go along with whatever they are brought up beliving and assume that that thing is correct or the only  way to do thing. Wether its from religon to government or fitting along with society......some people will never see through to act for themselves.

We all know that the government is some what corrupted. Hence the two party system. Could these parties be controlled by somthing more powerful, yeah its probaly true. I dont neccesarily belive all the rumors about the New World Order and the Martial Law crap, but i wouldnt be suprised for some of it to be true or happen in the near future.

Our world is in for some big changes in the next 5-10 years. I dont say that because of the 2012 conspricay or whatever.... I say that from just looking at the state of the world. Its common knowledge