Astral Projection and First Formless Jhana

[kakarukeys]

This is an article that I wrote about Astral Projection.
http://www.geocities.com/kakarukeys/astral.html

[Telos]

Fascinating article. I never knew about the Theravada form of Buddhism.

However, I'm interested to hear more from you about sloth. You describe the first formless Jhana as a state of "total relaxation." However, you mention later it is dangerous to become too comfortable because this can lead to one of the five hindrances (laziness).

What is sloth? The dictionary says "aversion to work or exertion." I don't mean to mince words, but isn't meditation towards out-of-body projection about letting the body enter a state of total relaxation? And is this not a state where we are averse to exerting ourselves?

Perhaps the dictionary is incomplete and it's more accurate to say that sloth is aversion to "good work," or "productive work." If that is the case, what is it about Jhana work that is good and productive?

Edit: That question was more directed at myself than you and others - I'm sorry if it sounded direct and insulting. I've just been questioning the usefulness of meditation to myself lately, because I've experienced such rapturous states - but who else has it helped, but me? What's so rapturous about it if I'm the only one experiencing it?

[kakarukeys]

here's what I think (not in sequential order):

I've just been questioning the usefulness of meditation to myself lately, because I've experienced such rapturous states - but who else has it helped, but me? What's so rapturous about it if I'm the only one experiencing it?

You should know that Theravada Buddhism is different from Buddhism of today. A Theravada Buddhist only enlighten himself/herself, except a Buddha. Put it bluntly, Theravada Buddhist is extremely selfish. This is not considered a bad quality to them, if everyone could enlighten himself/herself, the world will be a better place. One sees that there are countless beings in the world, to try to enlighten them one by one is nearly impossible. Instead, one should enlighten himself/herself first, that's the easier task, since one has total control of oneself.

However, I'm interested to hear more from you about sloth. You describe the first formless Jhana as a state of "total relaxation." However, you mention later it is dangerous to become too comfortable because this can lead to one of the five hindrances (laziness).

What is sloth? The dictionary says "aversion to work or exertion." I don't mean to mince words, but isn't meditation towards out-of-body projection about letting the body enter a state of total relaxation? And is this not a state where we are averse to exerting ourselves?

Perhaps the dictionary is incomplete and it's more accurate to say that sloth is aversion to "good work," or "productive work." If that is the case, what is it about Jhana work that is good and productive?

Sloth - aversion to work or exertion
Here the Theravada Buddists' definition of "work", "exertion" is always the work required to gain Enlightenment, i.e. the Noble Eightfold Path, the meditation practice.

They reason that, in order to gain Enlightenment, Jhana has to be achieved, in order to achieve Jhana, relaxation of body is required. Therefore, in their terms, relaxation of body is not a sloth.

However, if a monk is too obsessed with Jhana (because of the relaxation, happiness). He might forget about his true objective, then relaxation of body might become a form of laziness.

[Telos]

I understand. Thank you very much!

[Leo Volont]

"Theravada Buddhism".

I was wondering what you were talking about, and so I looked it up.  Theravada is what the Hinayana Buddhists choose to call themselves because they think, and rightly, that 'Hinayana' is an insult aimed at them.

Hinayana Buddhism is understood to be the largely amoral, nihilistic, self-indulgent and stoical form of Buddhism.  The Hinayana Buddhists claim that their Teachings are closer to those of the Original Buddha's, and, yes, they are right about that, but what were the original Teachings?  They were a Revolution that urban shopkeepers used to attack the Hinduism of the Priests.  The Original Teachings were an Attack against a Civilization.  Being an attack against Civilization,  no Civilization could flourish if its injunctions were strictly followed.  These shortcomings were soon discerned and Truly Enlightened Buddhists discerned the Divine Truths of the Bodhisatvas -- the Mahayana Doctrines.  It is interesting how many similarities there are between Christian Morality and Mahayana Morality.  Toynbee, the great historian, calls them the Twin Higher Religions, of course excluding Hinayana Buddhism which is a through back to old Roman Stoicism which was an indulgence of the leisured classes that isolated themselves from the World and sought their own peace even at the expense of everyone elses suffering.  

So, the Buddhism that developed a moral dimension is Mahayana Buddhism.  Mahayana Buddhism grew great and its wide moral vision and sweep made it popular with the masses.  Mahayana means "Big Wheel".

Hinayana Buddhism retained some influence in Southeast Asia but only in the monasteries where monks would go off to indulge themselves in their isolated quietism.  Hinayana means "Small Wheel".

[kakarukeys]

You have got it right, although a few of the points are abit radical.

A clear distinction between Theravada and Mahayana is:

Theravada only enlightens itself. Only a Buddha is qualified to enlighten the world.

Mahayana enlightens the world as well as itself.

Both have shortcomings. Theravada's are those you pointed out. Mahayana's shortcoming is that the diversification of views and doctrines is unavoidable, thus leading to religious conflicts.

[Telos]

... excluding Hinayana Buddhism which is a through back to old Roman Stoicism which was an indulgence of the leisured classes that isolated themselves from the World and sought their own peace even at the expense of everyone elses suffering.

Interesting that you describe Stoicism as an "indulgence." Stoicism was/is open to all classes of people,  for isn't the whole point not to indulge in feelings that cause discord with nature? Like Theravada Buddhism, isn't it possible that if everyone practiced Stoicism then the world would be self-enlightened?

[kakarukeys]

Sorry the original website is down.
Here's the alternative URL:
http://www.stochasticsoccer.com/astral.html