Atheist/Self-Deifyer's GOD/heaven channeling problems

[You]

When things such as Yoga, Reiki, Chi Gung and Tai Chi Ch'uan speak of speaking to god, drawing from heaven, or getting in touch with nature's natural divine flow of energy, or any likewise things, I'm finding difficulty.

It may be easy enough for someone undecided who believes in creationist theories, but when you don't, it's hard.

For those who are atheists, but do believe in subtle energies and want to manipulate them and imitate the effects of faith, or who take the standpoint that they are their own deity (obviously a metaphor, meaning you're the centre, the most important, the creator of your own destiny), how would one get around this barrier?

Have any others here had this problem?

[WalkerInTheWoods]

While I do not try to do rituals of faith, "nature's natural divine flow of energy" (your words) is where I find common ground. What others refer to as god I see as a creative life force or energy that permeates all things, and not necessarily some deity. So find a common ground that you can use in place of god without changing your beliefs.

[Rastus]

Go back to the part about Self.  A common phrase is the 'Divine Within', or the Christ Conciousness Within (Christ is a title, not a specific entity in this context).  Am I saying you are God?  Yes and No.  How about a piece of God?

I used to be like you, and now I'm not.  Don't be unwilling to embrace what happens to you.  Ask yourself this;  What evidence whould it take to change your thinking?  And, why do you think this way?  Search within yourself for your answers.  The feeling is common, and the reasons vary, but a common theme is feeling lonely.  Being in the flesh is much lonlier than being in the Spirit, you connection with the source is subtler.

[Moonburn33]

I find that being an Atheist means that you can believe in powers, but not Higher Powers.  Energy is energy- what's there is there... I am like you in that I believe in the inherent power of the self.  

"Drawing down from heaven" is just a metaphor for accessing a particular kind of energy.  What TCM  (Qi Gong included) would call Shen, or spirit.  It's the energy that makes awareness, basically.  

I still haven't found out what Reiki is, but it's a very interesting energy.  It has all the characteristics of being self aware (i.e. judgement, discrimination) but there's no personal interface to it.  

so what I do is just let my beliefs stand for themselves and open myself to reality.  Instead of calling down heaven, call down the energy they're talking about.

[You]

Yeah, but I've not really had any experience with the energy either, so having faith that there is some kind of life force out there to experiment is a bit tough. Are there any experiments or activities one can do to tap into it?

So far with NEW, for all I can think it's just personal energy. Do the more advanced NEW exercises deal with outside sources of energy, and better convince one of their existence?

[Rastus]

Have you ever wondered 'where' you draw energy in from?  Don't get bogged down by NEW's limitations.  At the point you can get 'proof' for yourself, you won't need proof.

[Nostic]

Go back to the part about Self.  A common phrase is the 'Divine Within', or the Christ Conciousness Within (Christ is a title, not a specific entity in this context).  Am I saying you are God?  Yes and No.  How about a piece of God?

I used to be like you, and now I'm not.  Don't be unwilling to embrace what happens to you.  Ask yourself this;  What evidence whould it take to change your thinking?  And, why do you think this way?  Search within yourself for your answers.  The feeling is common, and the reasons vary, but a common theme is feeling lonely.  Being in the flesh is much lonlier than being in the Spirit, you connection with the source is subtler.

I agree with this.

I'd also like to add, the great thing about yoga is that it's a scientific process. You do certain exercises or experiments, and you get certain clear results. Your results are your proof. Before you experience God/Self Realization, you do not have any direct knowledge of God or the Divine. All of your beliefs are therefore just assumptions.
When all of your efforts in yoga have culminated, proof is no longer needed, because now, you just know.
The personal energy that you speak of is you key to gaining greater understanding. You have to start somewhere. When that personal energy grows, so will your awareness. Keep working and see how far your awareness expands.
NEW is not very far removed from yoga, reiki etc. If it fits you best, just stick with that.

[Moonburn33]

A good way to gain an empirical sense of "energy" or prana or whatever is to work with it in an objective manner.

say to yourself " i'm going to stimulate energy in my hand if it's there" and observe the results with an open and skeptical mind.  Do NEW with the same intention of "I'm going to see what's to all of this and just observe."

the same would go with any questionable phenomena.  Things like this change over time.

[You]

Well I am pretty sure there is energy, or at least the ability to focus my MBA, because I can do that in my hands pretty easily, and am working on other parts.

The only thing is the idea of drawing energy from outside the body. There is nothing to convince me that it is out there. I don't have the same thoughts of there being a heaven above to draw from.

Perhaps I should try doing it in sunlight, and pretending to draw energy from sun? Lots of people worship the sun, and scientifically, there's not really a closer source of power to worship

[Moonburn33]

of course there's energy outside of yourself- if it weren't so then the universe would have to operate on some pretty different rules.

there is an old chinese saying:  Life has to move.

movement is energy.  if you have to rationalize that you're drawing in the western idea of energy then do so- there's no harm in that.

[Rastus]

You can draw it from many, many places, or create your own (I won't go there).  

For serious work I reach up to the Magnetosphere and pull down magnetic energy from the sun(crown chakra).  I will ground with earths core(root chakra).  I will mix the 2 in my heart Chakra and project it from there.  Good for big projects like treating your whole house.  The basics are the same if you change sources to storms or trees or the air(not the best source).

[You]

Now that I like Rastus, as I believe in the sun and earth's core, and know that their energy definitely does effect us, at least in bringing heat, so why not honour the heat?

I'm not sure what you mean by creating other sources, but until I believe in my own power to create it wouldn't do much anyway so I can understand your not going into it.

[Selski]

Tyciol

Without sounding "new-agey" and "out there" - have you never felt the energy from trees?

I find trees to be incredibly powerful, graceful, strong and oddly unassuming.  Have you ever hugged a tree?  It is one of the most wonderful things I've ever done in my lifetime (now I am starting to sound like I'm a sandwich short of a picnic!).

I also feel energy from the sea.  And rocks.  And the earth (planet).

I would encourage you to "embrace nature".  I am not one for "God", "god" or "worship" or anything like that, but I do appreciate the power of nature.  Keep it simple.

If I had to choose a religion?  I would be a pagan and worship the sun.

Without sounding completely corny, go to your nearest plant in your house.  Sit quitely near it.  Touch it.  You will feel something - I guarantee it.  And in my opinion, the plant will get as much out of your touch as you do.

The men in white coats are coming to take me away....

Sarah

[Telos]

Tyciol, I at best can be described an atheist, so I hope I can shed some like on the subject. Although I prefer to think of myself as a kind of modeler, or a chooser of models of thought.

Yoga and Tai Chi are spiritual models for describing and understanding experience. They sometimes conflict with other models, such as the theoretical models used in science or the theological models used in Judeo/Christic/Muslim religions.

However, none of these models have remain unchanged through time. They have all been reformulated, translated, abandoned, forgotten, re-discovered, re-learned, etc.

Models change because reality changes. Models (read "thoughts") are not completely separate from reality - thoughts are just as much a part of reality as any table or chair. I believe the purest state of consciousness has no models, for there is no recognized distinction between thoughts and reality.

However, we need models because they organize our thoughts. My suggestion is that you first try to wipe away the existence of any conflicting models in your thoughts, because they aren't serving their purpose. Practice achieving a state of "oneness" with universe (a realization that thoughts are real), and go about your life experiencing reality as it truly is displayed in front of you, allowing yourself to simply build working models that add to your distinctiveness, creativity, or anything else that you should desire.

[Disclaimer: The model described above may change I organize my thoughts into a better model or discard the notion of models completely therby achieving a state of oneness and flow]  

[You]

I HAVE actually hugged a tree! The thought never occurred to me until I read this book on shamans, and it was something I could try, so I did. I did it when I was alone though. Hmm... well it's honestly nice to hug ANYTHING (I don't hug people, and I can't hug my pets hard or I'll hurt them).

Even so, I don't think I experienced any more than what I would get from hugging a pillow... I think it's just the idea that they're both gentle comfortable objects with traditional impressions that makes them fun to hug, at least so far.