M Theory

[Leyla]

Was watching this physics special where they finally pieced M theory together. (They thought they had five conflicting theories, turns out they were all looking at the same thing, only from different directions)

It calls for 11 dimensions- The 4 earthly dimensions we are familiar with, plus 7 more, which are (supposedly) inaccessable.

It also said that it might be possible to "one day" contact these other dimensions (heh heh) through gravity waves, which can leave this plane and travel to others.

So this got me thinking...gravity...Astral Wind? The force sucking me out of my body feels a lot like reverse gravity. I'm falling up.


Any thoughts?

[Telos]

The 7 extra dimensions in M theory are very small (sub atomic) and therefore can only be accessible by very small things - strings. Since no one has ever seen a string, no one has seen these dimensions.

It also said that it might be possible to "one day" contact these other dimensions (heh heh) through gravity waves, which can leave this plane and travel to others.

No, that's not what's suggested. You're confusing extra dimensions with another postulate of M theory called "membranes," or "branes" for short. Branes would be things on which open-ended strings can attach themselves. The physicial universe, possibly made up of open-ended strings, might be attached to a brane. Gravitons might be closed-loop strings that wouldn't attach to branes. Instead, they would float freely away from this brane and into other branes - other branes that might also have strings attached to them in such a way that would create intelligent life. So, branes are not the same ideas as extra dimensions. No one knows how many branes there might be.

I could go on for a bit about how physicists and new agers use the same terms (energy, plane, dimension, etc.) to describe completely different things, but I'm getting tired of trying to doing that. I'm very frustrated at new age leaders for not taking the time to clarify their terminology, which they so carelessly borrowed from their 9th grade math class.

That said - I think M theorists are crazier than people who have OBE's. At least OBE'ers have seen the dimensions that they're referring to! Think about it. No one has ever seen a brane. No one has ever seen a string. No one has ever even seen a graviton, much less seen an alien lifeform on another brane using gravitons to communicate with other lifeforms on other branes. No one even knows if gravity moves in waves.

The best thing for OBE'ers is to not bother trying to reconcile your experiences with M theory. M theorists know less about wider realities than you do.

[Leyla]

I'm not sure how old your information is- but I watched this program twice, there is nothing wrong with my ears.

I heard these physicists  say, in the clearist possible language that they belive there are parallell universes which may contain intelligent life, and that we earthlings may one day be able to contact beings from these other dimensions, through gravity waves.  

There was no mistaking.

They even had a skit where the guy picked up a "gravity phone" to call up intelligent life from another dimension.

These people are acknowledged experts in their field and I'm going to take their word.

[Leyla]

Here- you can watch all three hours online for yourself.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

[Telos]

Like I said, you're confusing extra dimensions with another postulate of M theory called "membranes," or "branes" for short.

I've seen that program at least 5 times since it aired and read the book twice, not to mention a practical library of other material on the subject. Check your ears and watch it again.

He used the words "parallel universes" and "membranes" to describe the places where alien life might live, not "dimensions." You're not wrong, you're just misusing a word.

Membranes are 2-dimensional surfaces that warp into multi-dimensional space. Apparently, ours warps into 3-dimensions, so we have a 3-dimensional membrane. In M theory, parallel universes could exist in our exact same elongated 3-dimensional space, just on different branes from our own. We wouldn't see them because their strings are attached to their brane and wouldn't register on ours, not because we can't see extra dimensions. There could be a million parallel universes with no more than 3 spatial dimensions.

M theorists do not use the word dimension to describe a parallel universe.

The next time you watch, pay particular attention to how and when they use the word "dimension." Does it sound confusing? Don't brush it off and think you understand it. Greene even admits that it's probably impossible to really comprehend what these other dimensions would look like. Did you read the article the online version linked to?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html

But will there ever be an explanation or a visual representation of higher dimensions that will truly satisfy the human mind? The answer to this question may forever be no.

The article finishes by saying a 4-dimensional being might have to pull us from our 3-dimensional space and see from its perspective. This 4D lifeform would not necessarily live in a parallel universe. It could be living in our universe right now, it's just that we'd only see 3 of it's 4 dimensions.

Parallel universes and extra dimensions are not the same thing to a physicist.

[Leyla]

So...basically your problem is my use of the word "dimension" instead of "membrane?"

Why get bogged down in semantics?  

They said that these "parallel universes" reside on "membranes" in a "higher dimensional space."  

Lets focus instead on the big news, which is that physicists are now plotting ways to contact intelligent life in these higher dimensions....in parallel universes...on membranes.

[Leyla]

And if they're curious to know what these other dimensions are like, they could give anyone of us a call.

(You might not yet be aware of this, but there are physicists already on this board who openly admit to studying our experiences, and are trying to learn AP for research purposes.)

[Telos]

Why get bogged down in semantics?

I'd like to see more corroboration (and maybe collaboration) with physicists and other scientists regarding unique experiential phenomena like AP and OBE's. But that doesn't appear to be happening because there is such a rift in our semantics. I was just trying to help repair that rift.  

They said that these "parallel universes" reside on "membranes" in a "higher dimensional space."

I read that transcript, and really found it odd that they said, "higher dimensional space," because that is extremely vague. "Height" IS a dimension, so they could mean that the 2D membrane surfaces are higher in the height dimension than our own.

If they meant a dimension itself is higher, then what is their criteria? What determines whether a dimension is higher or lower than another? If the extra dimensions are small and curled up, wouldn't that mean that they are "lower" than the stretched-out elongated 3 spatial dimensions? It looks like marketing fluff to make their theory look more attractive - higher sounds better. But I admit, I'm confused by that statement.

Lets focus instead on the big news, which is that physicists are now plotting ways to contact intelligent life in these higher dimensions....in parallel universes...on membranes.

Gravity phones with higher dimensional life is a huge step of imagination.

The news would be big if physcists actually saw a graviton and could show that gravity moved in waves. Then we would understand gravity and open doors into research on weightless flight, telekinesis, engineering, long term space habitats, and a whole bunch of else. It'd probably be the greatest scientific discovery of all time.

(You might not yet be aware of this, but there are physicists already on this board who openly admit to studying our experiences, and are trying to learn AP for research purposes.)

No, I didn't know. Good to hear though Can you show me the threads where they posted?

[Leyla]

I think by the term higher they mean the dimensions we can't see. We've already labled height, width, depth and time 1-4, so by default the others would be higher.

I think some of their posts may still be around, but we did lose several of the archived files around last year.

Just do a search using the word "physics," also you might want to check some of the member profiles, (if this new system allows for that.)

[in'lakech]

Surprisingly I just saw the first part of "The Elegant Universe". Very interesting stuff.  I'll try to get around to watching the other two.

[catmeow]

I could go on for a bit about how physicists and new agers use the same terms (energy, plane, dimension, etc.) to describe completely different things, but I'm getting tired of trying to doing that. I'm very frustrated at new age leaders for not taking the time to clarify their terminology, which they so carelessly borrowed from their 9th grade math class.  

Good point.  William Buhlman confuses physical and metaphysical terminology in his book The Secret of the Soul: Using Out-Of-Body Experiences to Understand Our True Nature in order to make astral projection look like it agrees with mathematical physics.  

It's still a good book though.  

catmeow

[Leyla]

If you are absolutly certain I am not going to parallel universes when I astral project; then would you mind telling where it is you think I am going?

Because from personal observation, they sure seem like parallel universes to me.

And if the intelligent forces I encounter don't exist in the unseen dimensions, then where are they? And why can't I see them right now?

[Telos]

Who said you're not going to parallel universes?

[Leyla]

So, you're claim is that there are two different sets of parallel universes?

The ones astral projectors travel to, and the ones predicted in string theory?

[Telos]

Sort of, but not exactly. You're catching on, though.

"Parallel universes" is another term that physicists and new agers use differently. New agers explore parallel universes in their sleep. Physcisits explore them when they're awake.

New agers actually see their version. Physcists have never seen their version.

Your parallel universes exist. Theirs do not, as of yet, because we have not discovered their existence.

So, there's really only one set of parallel universes that we know exist and those are the ones described in AP.

Since physicists use the term parallel universe differently, they're probably not the same thing.

[Leyla]

Physicists can't prove their theory is real, any more than APer's can prove our experiences are real.

When they talk parallel dimensions, they are mocked in chat rooms.
When we talk parallel dimensions, we are prescribed anti-psychotics.

[Tombo]

Can someone please define the word "Dimension" and BTW: How can a dimension been curled up

Physicists use concepts to describe a real world isn't that doomed to fail? Oh did I mention that I studie Physics myself..........

[Teomim]

Check out....

The universe in a Nutshell-Steven Hawkings
Breif history of Time-Steven Hawkings
The Fabric of the Cosmos- Brian Greene


These books are right up your ally.


~Z?~

[Necromancer]

In 1970 a revelation of quantum physics came to me while in an AP and in or about 1976 Stephen Hawking published a paper on the string theory of quantum physics that was not like my insight. Later in 1999 Dr. Hawking revised his theory to the "Quantum Cosmology, M-theory and the Anthropic Principle (January '99). He later revised some of that theory in 2003 I think it was and it parallels my AP.

The point is what you are considering to be two different universes are in fact parallel and has a causation of law that governs both. The same laws of existence only the facade or illusions we put on them to keep them apart.

As far as the big bang scientist are starting to realize that it didn't just happen in one spot in this universe and not at one time but many places and a multitude of times. Could these anomalies be visible parallel dimensions? As far as not seeing any evidence of strings Dr Hawking elaborates on how and when strings manifest themselves to combine, they form a rift in the fabric of time and space. The formation of a black hole or an alternate dimension, and while in my revaluation it was that there was only one black hole in all of creation. That is to say that the very center of every black hole throughout time is the same point of existence, the 0 point or 0 dimension. You should go on the inside and look out.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg18424781.400

Article Preview
The first evidence for string theory?
18 December 2004
Marcus Chown
Magazine issue 2478
A double view of galaxies and a quirky quasar leads astronomers to think they have spotted a thread of pure energy streaking through our galaxy
IF YOU consider them separately, these two observations are hardly going to set the scientific world on fire. But together they add up to a spectacular possibility. In a tiny region of sky, astronomers have seen a dozen galaxies that appear as a curious sequence of double images. They have also observed a quasar whose brightness oscillates in an unexpected way. What could cause these odd phenomena? The only explanation that covers both is pretty mind-bending: "superstrings" of pure energy that can stretch millions of light years across the universe. Is this the first experimental evidence for string theory?

The theory is our best hope of understanding how the universe works at its most fundamental level. It suggests that the basic constituents of matter are impossibly narrow threads of concentrated energy. The various different ways these superstrings can vibrate correspond to different fundamental particles, such as the up-quark and the ...

As for a dimension being curled up, well Alice, eat me, drink me, it's only the size of the portal you have a problem with. Once on the other side you may find this dimension is much too small for you to fit into.

Here is Hawkings' M theory

http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/lindex.html
Instead, the fundamental theory was claimed to be super strings, which were thought to be finite to all loops. But it was discovered that strings were just one member, of a wider class of extended objects, called p-branes. It seems natural to adopt the principle of p-brane democracy. All p-branes are created equal. Yet for p greater than one, the quantum theory of p-branes, diverges for higher loops.

[catmeow]

To read the article I have to subscribe!    It would be enormously interesting if it were true...

catmeow

[Necromancer]

Wait a month or so for it to be a back issue then they let you read the whole thing.

[Telos]

I just stumbled upon an NPR interview with Brian Greene. He talks at some length about the supposed relationship between the extra dimensions of string theory and spiritualism. He says he would definitely "dissuade" people from thinking that they are the same thing.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4495488

On another note:

As for a dimension being curled up, well Alice, eat me, drink me, it's only the size of the portal you have a problem with. Once on the other side you may find this dimension is much too small for you to fit into.

That was pretty cool. ;)

[BOATS]

Has anyone looked at this site.
www.worlditc.org
They seem to be doing allot of research with other planes of existence.
Also look at the various paranormal research groups on line and listen to the EVP recordings they are getting.  I have captured some myself and they are not very hard to get.

[Necromancer]

Many times I have heard people say that science doesn't believe in spiritualism, the occult, or the supernatural. This is a link to Princeton University, where they are in experimentation with global consciousness and random numbers.

My thought on this is if global consciousness changes has the ability to manipulate a computers ability to pick random number and form it into a cohesive pattern that coincides with natural events, then are they not also proving that we are also forming our own reality?

http://www.rednova.com/news/display/?id=126649

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/music.html

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

Telos

Thanx for the comment but the credit goes to Lewis Carol.

[BillionNamesofGod]

Here- you can watch all three hours online for yourself.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

I've just purchased this DVD, from the USA, so look forward to watching it, watching it online is a pain, and the graphics are just so lovely. I was about to download the quicktime and burn a DVD, but the cost of the DVD is real cheap!

This is a very interesting topic, and I'm still getting my head around it, for many years now.

It's clear that in Astral Projection, and Physics Dimensions, are describing different things.
THe question on my mind, in terms of Astral Projection, is it possible (how?) to travel to parallel dimentions?  In Physics, different parallel worlds are just that, there is no communication between them, if my understanding is correct.

So how can you AP, in one parallel Universe, and enter another?