Samadhi, Satori, Nirvana, Enlightenment, Realization…

[Leo Volont]

hmm, anyway i could find my experiences in it and it showed me few directions, and i already have some results
i just check, and this article found me in ways useful articles find me, up to this point
of course this doesn't mean that they will have any meaning for someone else, they trigger specific patterns in my mind .. but i take your opinion into account, thx

I agree that the Theosophical Society is perhaps the most reputable of any such organization.  But being the best in that World does not take much.  Not as brazen as other New Age Publishers, still there seemed to be the tincture of amateurism in their publications.  It began to seem like a Country Club for rich lunatics.  They would find materials and do quick translations, but nobody would have any perspective regarding the utility of the original materials.  For instance, the Theosophical Society largely took India at face value.  But the trick to properly understanding India is to realize that they are given to the most extreme exaggerations.  This should have been factored into any translation, from their language into ours -- to cut back any claim by at least 95 percent.

[daem0n]

nevertheless this will do, i understand your concern and are grateful for it
i don't seek anymore, i just find what i need (and note that in my current state (incarnated) i don't even know what i need, thankfully not all of me is incarnated), i already started to modify most of my materials to suit my development, these sutras are no exception

[Leo Volont]

nevertheless this will do, i understand your concern and are grateful for it
i don't seek anymore, i just find what i need (and note that in my current state (incarnated) i don't even know what i need, thankfully not all of me is incarnated), i already started to modify most of my materials to suit my development, these sutras are no exception

Have you ever read Vivekananda?  His discursiveness would suit you to a 'Tee'.   And his philosophy is rather like yours, I'm guessing.  He once proposed that in a Perfect World there would be one Religion for each Person in order to cover for individual inclinations.

But it would be a lot of work to create a Religion entirely 'from scratch'.  So much easier to find one you like hanging on the Rack, and to make the necessary alterations.

[daem0n]

i mean that i alter techniques available
i have no religion, i base everything on my experience, and that truly would leave everyone with individual one
as for sutras, modifying it's application, not modyfing it's contents

[Feelflowz]

Hey, whatever happened to the issue of Enlightenment and Astral projection?  What's the relationship between the two? Is there a relationship?  Are psychic abilities really a distraction from the ultimate goal of true, profound liberation?  Or, is there room for astral projection on the path towards freedom?
I've been wrestling with these questions for a few years. I actually gave up pursuing psychic experiences about ten years ago because I discovered I had more important, basic issues to work on. Also, I felt the Buddhists were right, that you can get lost easily.  But now I'm back to OBEing. Why?  Because hell, I just love the adventure! I mean Out-of-body experiences are just so exciting. So I see it as a skill, like any other skill that anyone can learn. And having that skill does not mean that I am somehow more spiritual than anyone else.
(But the quest for true love, liberation, enlightenment, still calls within!)


Feelflowz

[Rastus]

If your well on your way to enlightenment, you can project.  But being able to project does not imply any level of enlightenment.

[grizli]

I have a simple but important thing to say:

Why do you think you are not enlightened

[Telos]

Good question, grizli.

As you can probably already tell from my name, I'm highly interested in this topic. So this is a good window for me to get in on the discussion.

But this question is peculiar in my case. I do not feel that I am enlightened because I've already had two separate enlightenments. Yes, I hope I didn't confuse you. I've been enlightened twice to different world views. I can't shake one of them off. They both appear to be correct.

One of them says that all existence, physical and metaphysical, is guided by an infinitely simple and loving divine force and is just fine. Existence should be laughed at for its absurdity and enjoyed. Everything will work out in the end, don't worry about it. Follow your dreams. Have fun!

The other says that existence is maddening for its absurdity. The forces that control the universe are cold and silent, work like a clock, and are therefore dead and vacuous of thought. The creator is gone through some indeterminate means. Unsatisfied with his own existence, he ended his life by putting all his energy into the creation of a massive torture machine, as a testament to the nonexistent deity of loneliness he worshipped. Or he has perversely trapped himself inside the prison of his own omnipotence, immutably captivated by a perfectly designed dark ritual of masochism. Enlightenment is dangled in front of him like an apple, a naughty forbidden fruit, by which he is continuously spanked for attempting to eat and for successfully eating.


Heaven help me, I put on a happy face and try to look at the first one.

[Nostic]

I have a simple but important thing to say:

Why do you think you are not enlightened

Interesting question... an innocent question as well.
To put it simply, I still live a life that's in conflict. I'm still pushed and pulled and manipulated by the constantly shifting forces of this world. I still experience suffering. I'm still not certain who I am exactly, where I came from, what or who sustains me, why I exist, why I exist on EARTH, what's the meaning of it all (if there is any meaning) etc etc. Oh I've read lots of books and lots of information on the internet... but all that stuff is just hearsay. Sure I want to believe it, but I'm very well aware of how much I don't know... or maybe I don't even know the depth of that.
Until the time comes when I know God on such a personal level that I can consciously feel his presence, I can't say that I'm even remotely "enlightened". But I suppose when I actually do get there, it wont feel like enlightenment so much as it will feel like... just what is... a new version of "normal".

[grizli]

But this question is peculiar in my case. I do not feel that I am enlightened because I've already had two separate enlightenments. Yes, I hope I didn't confuse you. I've been enlightened twice to different world views. I can't shake one of them off. They both appear to be correct.

That who is enlightened is enlightened always...
Mind(ego) can not be enlightened. mind can not  cognite apsolute consciousnes ....

The creator is gone through some indeterminate means. Unsatisfied with his own existence, he ended his life by putting all his energy into the creation of a massive torture machine, as a testament to the nonexistent deity of loneliness he worshipped. Or he has perversely trapped himself inside the prison of his own omnipotence, immutably captivated by a perfectly designed dark ritual of masochism. Enlightenment is dangled in front of him like an apple, a naughty forbidden fruit, by which he is continuously spanked for attempting to eat and for successfully eating.

Dont listen this apsurde sayings.....

Creator isnt a person.. and has no will at all....
All around us is maya or illusion....
Only apsolute conscious exist... and this world is just a form like surface of the sea....

Sorry for bad english

[grizli]

Until the time comes when I know God on such a personal level that I can consciously feel his presence

Just your existance is his presence... nothing is outside him... God only exists, and nothing else outside him....

I(ego) can not know God...

Ego thinks that it(ego) has free will.. its the reason for suffering....

Enter into Google keyword Ramana Maharshi, and download free books :

"Who am I" , and others.. and you will find some answers.-..

[Nostic]

Until the time comes when I know God on such a personal level that I can consciously feel his presence

Just your existance is his presence... nothing is outside him... God only exists, and nothing else outside him....

I(ego) can not know God...

Ego thinks that it(ego) has free will.. its the reason for suffering....

Enter into Google keyword Ramana Maharshi, and download free books :

"Who am I" , and others.. and you will find some answers.-..

OK dude, I can accept that. However it still doesn't change the fact that I'm not enlightened.  
My attachment to ego keeps me from enlightenment, I know.

[grizli]

OK dude, I can accept that. However it still doesn't change the fact that I'm not enlightened.
My attachment to ego keeps me from enlightenment, I know.

You still didnt say why you are not enlighted?

But you are that "ego"  or?

Ask yourself "Who am I" and wright here

[redcatherine]

Samadhi, Satori, Nirvana, Enlightenment, Realization...Ultimate Ends ..I have yet to see an explicit post regarding the pursuit of ..(ultimate ends).. I think it significant that all of the First Rate Gurus have no such moral scruples about demonstrating Supernatural Powers....makes me wonder why nobody has thought it worthwhile to discuss the Higher, Primary and Ultimate Goals of the Spiritual Pursuit in any of the Posts I have seen here published.

Interesting and thought provoking ... hmmm
Well in our development circle there is no longer an ultimate goal we believed that there was one once upon a time .Now we learn , we grow . and we try to integrate and build up the light quotient .

But we are certainly not developing siddhi powers quickly . We are only neophytes in that respect . But we have developed the basic gifts and we have moved on from there in a predictable course .

Jodi wanted to become a medium and be  more psychic and she is now .

Bill wanted to work as an exorcist and spiritual warrior he does now .

Andrew wanted to become a planetary logos well we his is not one now lol
but he did teach us alchemy to form an ashram .

Catherine wanted to become a platform medium and she is one now . She wanted to see the mahatma and we all do now .

Sveta wanted to learn to meditate she does and she wanted to teach us to use a merkaba and she did

Debbie wanted to go to the ashrams and she does now .

Tom wanted something to do on a wednesday night no just kidding lol . But he does have a reason to go out now and he channels and travels to other dimensions as do we all and none of us did when we began . We never had gone past the astral then .

But after those primary goals most of which were basic (alright all were basic except Andrews ) we developed higher goals . Our spirit teachers  asked us to choose a path but these seem unattainable in this lifetime and we kind of intuit that we will not possibly reach these lofty goals until after the next incarnation but still we plod along . The journey is exciting . We go to new realms spiritually and meet new masters and angels et al and it is something to learn to share and it is very addicting . Where will it end ? I hope it doesn't and I expect it won't .


http://www.inthelight.co.nz/spirit/pg-path.htm
We chose to each pick one of 7 spiritual paths as listed by Kuthumi , Dwjahl Kuhl and Alice Bailey :
http://laluni.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/initiation/init1071.html

All of us picked the Path of Earth Service or the Path of working on a Ray
except Andrew who as you might have guessed picked the path of absolute sonship . Oh Well you get that .

[redcatherine]

Samadhi, Satori, Nirvana, Enlightenment, Realization...

I found that most of the experts were more concerned with Higher and Broader Goals – Samadhi, Satori, Nirvana, Enlightenment, Realization, Liberation, God Consciousness, etc, etc.  ... no mention of these Ultimate Ends.I remember, though, one of the recurrent themes which all of the second-rate Gurus would strike upon, and that is that all occult powers and psychic gifts must be renounced in the interest of achieving the Primary Goals.  That always seemed to me as though they were making excuses.  Occult Powers and Psychic Gifts, after all, provide for actual objective and discernable attainments.  A person may see these Accomplishments as encouraging signs of progress.  Or, if these gifts are acquired after Enlightenment, or whatever it is called, then they in some sense offer us a form of proof.  It just used to seem too convenient that all of these Second Rate Gurus would insist that they could have Supernatural Powers, IF THEY HAD WANTED TO, but decided to renounce them for some implausible moral grounds.  Then what would they have left to prove their Enlightenment but their ability to ball us over with the same old Spiritual Cliques that we have grown accustomed to hearing from all of the Second Rate Gurus.  But once you have heard it a dozen times, Talk is proof of nothing. ....

well you got me thinking and i found some links in that vein lol
http://singingmountain.org/y2004jan4.html
http://www.sol.com.au/kor/6_02.htm
http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/santhigi/guru/false.htm

[Telos]

grizli, thank you. It definitely helps to be reminded of other viewpoints.

[grizli]

grizli, thank you. It definitely helps to be reminded of other viewpoints.

Well ,I asked you again!!!:
Ask yourself : Who am I and write here

[Telos]

I am something that cannot use words to completely describe itself.

[Orchild]

Everywhere you will look, whatever the topics are about, the whole sotry will be splitted in 2 options. It's either a 0 or a 1..

Isn't there anyone els who can look further then this..

[grizli]

It is just 1....
1 equal infinity  

[sublunary]

I am something that cannot use words to completely describe itself.

... or numbers.

Everywhere you will look, whatever the topics are about, the whole sotry will be splitted in 2 options. It's either a 0 or a 1..

Isn't there anyone els who can look further then this..

Something that is neither qualitative nor quantitative, yet credulously a bizarre hybrid of the two.

It is just 1....
1 equal infinity  

No, 1/0 equals infinity. Take something and put nothing into it and your answer is infinity. Infinity is without limits and is everything and therefore a measure of nothing.

[Orchild]

The 3rd option = everything = 1, perfect balans, like a judge though not the one we know.. can't explain, just look up something about the pheonix, phoenix for the dutch one's among us feniks.

[BirdManKalki]

I cant stand by on the sidelines any longer, I cant resist the call.

This is your desired manifested thought. The answer is that the truth for most people is to hard to face thus people are scared to talk about enlightenment because they are afraid of making fools of themselves. Remember, whenever we speak we speak in a manner as to provoke the answer to the desired question.

Your words Leo, speak for us, now we can see this for ourselves.

"Maybe you don't know, because you are not as old as I am, but for the last 50 years the intellectually lazy had nothing further to do then to group their opponent with Frigging Adolf Hitler. and such as you wish to persuade me that somebody can INNOCENTLY construct an argument where I am grouped with Adolf Friggin Hitler, and that I should NOT be offended by it."

"Well, I asked you again!!!:
Ask yourself: Who am I and write here"

I am light I am thought, I am your Master I am your Slave, I am you and everything around you; therefore I can speak to myself or judge myself in any manner I choose. This is what was meant by asking you to write here. So we already wrote it down there then rewrote it here.

Now according to our state of mind and our understanding of the way, we speak undisputed truth with every breath; therefore we shall chastise ourselves starting with yourself Leo Volont.  

Leo, from what we have read here you are ruled by your ego this meaning your intellect. You seem proud to display your intellect, all one need do is read your posts; irrelevant information is displayed cleaver words are used when their use is unnecessary. One can tell from this single thread that you have read a lot of books which speaks for itself; your books are blocking your path for books are useless and teach you nothing if read for the intellect, loose your books! You are presumptuous and stuck in your own dogma; I am Hitler and therefore so are you! If this offends you then you don't understand yourself or myself. I care not of what another thinks of myself. Therefore we are lethal and could cut Buddha or any other teacher to shreds without batting an eyelid. If you understand these words, then well done, if not then we are yet to meet more then one person who partially understands themselves.  

Thank for the lesson Leo, its good when both teachers and students learn together, from each other.  

There are no numbers there are no letters. I invite anyone reading this to draw this simple symbol on paper for it doesn't display properly on a monitor. (= X =) if studied carefully you may notice what happens when we link together the equal signs. You can even flip it to vertical representing time, this is a symbol for everything, therefore (a = X= z) and 1 equals 100 (1=X=100), infinite algebra. Yep, I took both pills, which is the same as taking no pills!

I have much more of my testimony to explain and decode, May peace be with you all, and always, Infinite Love

THE BIRDMAN

(=X=)

Songs to Download and decode
Tenacious D – Tribute (hmmm I wonder what song?)
Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody
Warrior [Dirty] – Lloyd Banks

None of us have the slightest clue!

Music Is The Language Of Our Soul!

[BirdManKalki]

What happens when you link the equals to the brackets?

[Telos]

Birdman, I think I've found a clue in my journeys. Are you ready for it? It's by no means a law, but as you said, the truth is hard to face.

(1) You have to work together with others, using logic and reason, in order to build a prosperous community. (2) You have to work in order to be happy.

Enlightenment is about viewing the concept of work differently. Instead of looking at it selfishly, as a tiring job that earns you and only you money, view it as something that continuously changes the world for the better. Abandon the thought that work has anything to do with money. Work is about molding chaos into order. But, oh, shucks, things fall apart! Then build it again, only this time stronger. Try something new, be creative, and responsibly scientific. Grow back, don't give up. You'll achieve breakthroughs in your power over nature, and it will give you confidence, and you'll have fun.

Sorry if I sound a bit acerbic. Whenever someone ends their thought with infinite algebra, they seem as if to think that that settles the matter. Well, unless you can demonstrate knowledge of infinity, and not just talk about it, then it's not very useful the world.

Infinity is often used a shield for which people hide behind when they don't understand the world. It offers the feeling of easy salvation. But we don't need to be saved or protected. We need fortitude and progress.