Anti Depressants....

[James S]

Hi Spastral,

Yes, I know about these chemicals and their effects because I used to be on similar antidepressants myself several years ago.

I can give you a pretty comprehensive breakdown on what each of the three neurotransmitters in this particular drug does. The most important one is its ability to prevent the body from consuming too much seratonin, leaving more of this available for the nerve synapses.
The really important thing is:

***DONT THINK YOU ARE A FAILURE BECAUSE YOU NEED ANTIDEPRESSANTS. ***

THIS IS A STUPID STIGMA ATTACHED TO PEOPLE BY AN IGNORANT  SOCIETY THAT GENERALLY KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE TRUE NATURE OF DEPRESSION AND HOW TO TREAT IT.

DEPRESSION IS NOT A PSYCHOLOGICAL SYMPTOM OF THE MIND, IT IS A PHYSICAL SYMPTOM OF THE BRAIN!

Sorry for shouting there, but I can't stress this enough. Our society is still generally treating people who suffer depression as mental cases, because too many people haven't come out of the mid 20th century in their thinking.

Depression is not a state of mind. It has been linked to a physical condition, that is, a chemical imbalance within the brain. If the brain is unable to maintain correct seratonin levels neurons within the brain become less able to transmit their signals across the synapses that form the link between brain cells. The signals become lost or garbled, and as a result you are quite literally unable to think straight.

The other neurotransmitters in the drug you've been prescribed will give your cardiovascular system a bit of a boost, and help maintain your central nervous system.

Seratonin is the key here. This affects the brains ability to transmit messages through the nerve synapses. The antidepressants effectively boost the level of seratonin available, making overall brain function better. It's not a "smart" drug, but you will find that you are more alert, think faster and think clearer and more calmly. It also levels out your emotions pretty well, you won't feel anxiety or phobias much, and you will find yourself seeing things from a different, clearer perspective.

It will also have a good effect any psychic skills you might have, and it should have a positive effect on your ability to project. Unfortunately I can't say that with certainty, as I knew nothing about AP when I was on them. What I do know is from my own experiences. I'm primarily an empath, I can feel the emotions in others. While I was suffering with depression my empathic skills went out the door. My mind was such a mess I couldn't hope to pick up what was happening in others. After being on the antidepressants for a short time my empathic abilities increased way beyond what they had ever previously been. I put this down to the increased levels of seratonin now working in my brain, helping my brain as a whole to work better.

What I would suggest though (if you are not already) is to get into a good regular routine of meditation to help calm your thoughts and stabilize your emotions. The antidepressants will give this process a huge boost, but you will want to get off them at some stage, and at that time it is almost essential to have a good calming, stabilising routine to keep things going smoothly afterwards.

Take care,
James.

[Jacara]

James:  Thanks for your perspective on depression and the medications used to treat it.  I too am taking things for my depression, and I have a hard time not feeling like a loser myself (because that's how I often judged depressed people before I got it myself).
Anyway, I do hope to get off them someday, if I can develop good coping skills as you mention doing with meditation.

[SPASTRAL]

Hi James,

Thanks for your mail.  It was more encouraging than I hoped for.

I have tried doing some meditation, but my mind is wondering and gets on to the stuff that gets me down.  I know I need to focus more and I will probably go along with the treatment.  I don't want to shut my problems out, but more deal with them in a systematic way.

The other problem with the tablets (cetrapromil hydrobromide - I think!) is they screw up your sex life...that's gonna make me more depressed!!!!!

Anyway, thanks again, any more feedback is more than welcome.


Spencer

[James S]

You're welcome guys.

Spastral, I wouldn't worry too much about the tablets affecting your sex life. About the same time I went on to anti d's so did a friend of mine. We were prescribed different medications, and the indications on both packs were probably the same as what you read, that it would possibly affect your sex life. Both of us found out that this was not true. It made no difference whatsoever.

I think it's a case of if one test subject started seeing blue spotted somersaulting Aardvarks when the tablets were being trialed, you'd then see on the pack "Warning, this drug may cause you to see blue spotted somersaulting Aardvarks" The chances are usually pretty low, the drug company just doesn't want to end up in court because they didn't warn people of a possible side effect.

As to eventually getting off the tablets and being able to cope ok, it's good to use the time that your emotions and mind are calm and stable to look at your lifestyle and see what might need to be changed. It is true that depression is a due to a chemical imbalance, but this physical condition more often than not is a direct result of too much stress in your life. That was definitely the initial cause of my problem, although in another person I knew it was the result of a fairly rare disease that she contracted.

If you feel that you might have a too much stress in your life, then this really needs to be sorted out before you go off the tablets. Either change your lifestyle where you can to reduce this stress, or work on methods of meditation that will reduce its effect on you.

Spencer, you say that you still have problems meditating because of a wandering mind. Yep, I can relate to this pretty well. I found that before I went on to the medication, my attention span was just too short, and my mind too cluttered for the meditation to work well. The thing that both the medication, and effective meditation will do is allow you to detach yourself from all that's going on around you. Once you can do this you will really see things objectively, and most problems take on their correct proportion, which is usually very small.

As to good meditation techniques, and advice on removing stress from your life if you need to,  there is one book in particular I'd highly recommend -
Paul Wilson's Complete Calm.
His meditation techniques were a godsend to me, Interestingly I've also found a lot of his mind calming techniques also in use in Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics. I think that they are all based on proven Yoga methods. In Wilson's book, you just have to put up with him beating certain points to death before he gets on to the next bit.

Take care,

James.

[Tia]

I only wish the anti-depressants had worked with me, I could have saved myself a lot of anguish - and wasted time (depression is so draining).

Half the people I know are on anti-depressants - no big deal, possibly an indication of the state of the world today, so dont take it personally.  Dont start thinking you are going to be reliant on tablets for the rest of your life now!  Give it a time limit, say 6 months (just an example, I'm no doctor) and aim to be totally fit in that time.  Give yourself and the tablets all the help you can.  Exercise, eat right, try to do some fun stuff etc.,  There is a great book 'Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy' by David D Burns.  It's Cognitive therapy and it is proven to work - helped me a lot.

[Tom]

When reading this, I remembered a web site which for a while kept being talked about here ( http://www.emofree.com/ ). It seems relevent, based on the previous discussions. I have downloaded it with the intention of getting to reading it some day.

[James S]

Tia, I'm curious...
Like you I've known many people whove had to go onto a.d's, and I agree, it does seem to be our modern western hat is pushing people too hard, but I've not seen where they haven't helped someone regain control. What happened in your case? I'm just curious as to how you dealt with it otherwise. If it's something you don't really wish to discuss though, please don't answer if you don't want to.

Tia is right in one thing. Antidepressents should only be viewed as a short term booster. They will restore balance to the chemical levels in your brain, but unless the condition was brought on by a disease, it is ultimately up to you to see that you're lifestyle doesn't cause that same imbalance again.

Yours,
James.

[SPASTRAL]

James and Tia, Thank you so much.

Your words have not only provided comfort, but are helping to motivate me in sorting out the negative aspects of my life.  Moreover, I accept that the pills aren't magic but they will help me along the way

I am in a rut; It takes me weeks (sometimes months) to get round to dealing with certain issues.  By the time I get round to them, I have made them into such a big deal that it takes twice the time and effort to resolve them.

You didn't have to write what you did; this site is supposed to be about AP, not counselling me through my life.... In return, I promise you I will give the tablets a try and will set to work on sorting my stuff out and then get off them.  I don't know how long this will take, but I WILL do it as well as I can.

Again, thanks and god bless

Spencer

[wierdzly]

Knowing what I have learned in the past 5 years or so. Doctors prescribe synthetic drugs" expecially anti depressants", as though they are as necessary as water. Often they do more harm than good.

1. If using drugs or alcohol for recreation, stop any way you are able. They will cause depression slowly, progressively over time. It may take 40 days or more to feel normal after you quit.

2. Make sure you are eating properly and if you are unable to eat properly take quality supplements.  It is very hard to get proper nutrition from your average available food.

3. Exercise moderately.

4. Make a daily attempt to systematically elliminate or move in the right direction  any problems or plans as you are able.

5. If all else fails try what  the doctor says.


WEIRDZLY!

[ralphm]

Is this in the same class of drugs as prozac, paxil, zoloff? I would be carefull because these drugs are are worse than habit forming- it is hard to get off them after 6 months-you need to taper off slowly.

[James S]

Ralphm,
Fortunately the current generation of antidepressants bear little to no resemblance to any of the Fluoxetine based drugs such as Prozac.

Fluoxetine was among the first drugs to be shown to have an ability to inhibit seratonin reuptake. It would be absorbed by the system and metabolised into Norfluoxetine and other unidentified chemicals. It actually only had a fairly week effect on synapses, and a lot of unwanted side effects.

Current antidepressants also use the neurotransmitter Noradrenalin to help balance the body against the primary seratonin drug. This is where fluoxetine fell down.

The current drugs are also non-adictive, though great care must still be taken when discontinuing use, as you have to do it slowly in stages.

Weidzly, you are right in that many doctors prescribe antidepressants like they prescribe antibiotics. Trouble is, when your brain chemistry reaches a certain point of imbalance, all the right food and exercise in the world will not restore that balance.
Food sources such as bananas, tomatoes, plums, avocados, pineapples, eggplant, walnuts and most important of all chocolate contain seratonin, but not in the kind of quantities needed.

James.

[Tia]

Hi James,

Tia, I'm curious...
Like you I've known many people whove had to go onto a.d's, and I agree, it does seem to be our modern western hat is pushing people too hard, but I've not seen where they haven't helped someone regain control. What happened in your case? I'm just curious as to how you dealt with it otherwise. If it's something you don't really wish to discuss though, please don't answer if you don't want to.

I dont have any dramatic story to tell, I just got into a depression for a few years without doing anything about it.  And when I say, doing nothing about it, I mean taking no action to change circumstances that caused it or helping myself out of it.  I didn't even realise I had a problem, I just thought that life was the way it was - excrement.  But then I started to get panic attacks and for a long while became disabled, couldn't leave the house.  My body was telling me, ok, you're not listening, try this!  Unfortunately the antidepressants have side effects, which for me were worse than my symptoms.  I couldn't even drive the car at one stage.  I couldn't understand it, I was taking a particular drug for anxiety and the side effect was - anxiety!  My doctor said I could try all the drugs but it takes 6 weeks of side effects before you can say wether any particular drug is for you.  I couldn't go through with it.  So I have a constant battle with anxiety/depression but the book that I mentioned is wonderful, it's a workbook and shows you how illogical your thinking is when depressed.  I am a lot better now, but I have to say that how ever long you have been depressed is how long it will take to recover.  So catching it in the beginnning is crucial.  It's a symptom, like pain, and needs to be dealt with not ignored because it wont just go away.

I'm glad you made me write this as I realise I should be doing more for myself.

[ralphm]

hi James, another question-what are the new generation of antidepressents?

[James S]

Ralphm, basically anything that has come out in roughly the last 8 years where a combination of neurotransmitters is used rather than just seratonin.

Tia, that's sounds terrible what you went through. what a sad irony that a drug that is supposed to relieve anxiety just caused more of it. It's unfortunate that it is still the case with antidepressants that you do need to find one that is compatible with your system, as not all are.  I'm so glad for your sake that you did find that cognitive therapy book. Being able to see where you are not thinking straight would be so helpful, and it's great you are feeling a lot better now.

This brings up one good point. Make sure you know exactly what your doctor is giving you, and make sure they know too. If your in any ways doubtful, go see another doctor.

James

[spirit]

Hi James & others:  This is my first time on here and I really enjoyed reading about the different views people have on a.d.'s as I have to constantly defend my Prosac, which I have been on for 8 years.  I've tried all the others that have come out since then and this is still the best for me.
I read somewhere that these a.d.s inhibit projection as well.  I believe they inhibit dreams but willing myself to remember them before sleep really works so I am trying to work on catching my dreams and hope I can project from them.  I regularly took astral trips as a child and remember my guides and their voices when I was frustrated and how eventually I could go to space.  When Marco died two years ago I started reading and writing constantly about all aspects of the paranormal.  I had many psychic & synchronistic experiences.  I would like to project to my home on the other side where so many of my friends and loved ones have gone already.  
Back to topic, If I could exercise like I was before Marco's death I almost felt ike I could get off Prosac as I would be on  a natual high for hours but its genetic in my family & my psychologist thinks I will have to keep taking them for life.  However, I believe will is the key and I think I can remember the steps to astral project again or go from my dreams.  Nothing can really limit us forever if we keep trying.  The spirit world is very real and think we need to astral project to help our planet survive or even transform although it seems impossible when you read the news. Thanks for any responses.  I need astrak friends to chat with.  Also have a friend who could project to her friends and tell them what they were doing the night before which amazed everyone in hight school so I want her to get online with this too as she is a very kind person.   Her e-mail is hndycare@SpiritOne.com if anyone wants to invite her.  Thanks, again, spiritdancer

[AuraAstris]

I would have to heartily endorse Wierdzly's comments.

I have tried all of these and found Zoloft to be the 'least harmful' and Paxil to be the 'most harmful' (notice I didn't even mention helpful). Many many people are intolerant of these drugs (and some aren't)...many more than the pharmaceutical companies will admit. I have talked to many on line. And some are extremely addictive to a significant number of people....Paxil being the worst. Be careful with these--the doctors don't have all the facts. Read this site: www.quitpaxil.org before going forward.

Each time I have gone to any doc with my problems of fatigue, sleeplessness, etc. they have tried to push a drug on me. Finally I found a doc that did extensive tests and found that, yes, I am depressed (with good reason!) but also diagnosed me as having chronic fatigue syndrome and hypothyroidism. If I had gone on antidepressants for any long length of time, it would have been a disaster as there is evidence that they can 'mess up' your endocrine levels. They are toxic and will produce liver toxicity over time so a proper diet is essential. Don't stay on any of them for 6 months...this is even recommended by the manufacturer.

My doc does not believe in these, he prescribes mega nutritional therapy and other healing techniques (thanks for the EFT link!!!) including talk or other types of therapies that get to the root of the problem and don't just 'treat symptoms'.

Again, Wierdzly's advice was sage........very very good.
And to the lady that finds it necessary to take Prozac for years...I understand .....sometimes it just the only way.

I know this is off topic but found it important to respond due to my experiences.

AA

Every Man and Woman is a Star

[SPASTRAL]

Hi AA,

Your subject isn't off topic and is taken as good experience.

I am about to start a course of Citalopram Hydrobromide and have done a lot of research through websites and through the NHS.

I would say they do have there place, but only as a last resort.  My problem is I amconstantly tired and find it hard to motivate myselft to do anything that "needs" to be done. I have been like this for a couple of years now and hate it.  

I have tried meditation, dietary changes, excersise, etc and these haven't greatly helped.  I see this as a last resort as doctors seem to want to push you onto these tablets as quick as they can.  

I will try them, I will work on my problems during the course, and will get off them.  This may sound a little ignorant towards the effects of the drug, but it is the only way for me to deal with it.

Thanks for your post.

Spencer

[Tia]

That 'Paxil' is called 'Seroxat' in the UK.  It will either save your life or ruin it.  I have a girlfriend who has taken it for years and probably will for the rest of her life - that's ok as she doesn't try the suicide thing anymore.  Very hard to get off it.

I dont think that anti-depressants interfere with OBE's.

[James S]

A tip that might help with chronic fatigue  - lots and lots and lots and lots of vitamin C.

Had a workmate suffer from this. True there are no real medications that can help here, but a dietician he was seeing at the time recommended up to 8 grams of vitamin C a day when sufering severe colds, flu or chronic fatigue. it won't cure the problem, but my workmate found that it did help a lot.

James.

[AuraAstris]

Hello,

I am being treated for chronic fatigue successfully with a regime of mega nutrients. I got the B12 shots also. The 'regime' includes: 4,000 mg of Vitamin C, extra pantothenic acid, B vitamin complex, DHEA (verrrry important), an adrenal cortex extract, a multi vitamin (the potent variety), 800 mg of Vitamin E, 400 mcg of Selenium and last but not least: a Passion flower blend to decrease anxiety (450 mg day in 3 doses with magnesium and l-glutamine) and 3 mg nightly of Melatonin...these last are very very important for sleep which is a real problem for those with CFS. Also get your thyroid checked out...don't rely on just the TSH test...get them all! And if you get the Adrenal test...it must be the saliva tests to show anything.

Good luck,
AA



Every Man and Woman is a Star

[wierdzly]

One of my co- workers was not feeling well (high blood pressure) at work. He went to his doctor and followed his advice. The doctor had him on many different drugs. Finally he had the high blood pressure under control but he had constant diarea and depression among other side affects. He was on Anti depressants also.

I stumbled onto products from this company called Life Plus and have become somewhat familiar with what products are good for treating so called incurable diseases.

My co- worker at work didn't want to try the products because  insurance companies only pay for drugs. I didn't push the products on him.  Eventually he was missing weeks of  work and everyone thought his health had failed and that was it, he would lose everything.

He came to work and asked me to tell him what products to use. I told him to first try the heart formula and the colon formula. He quit taking all of the drugs he was on, also. The next day he was feeling way better and his blood pressure was normal. His health has since returned to normal.

He doen't like paying $75 dollars every 2 months but if  he stops using the products for over 3 days his blood pressure skyrockets.  

His doctor says I'm the man but he isn't interested in trying the products on any of his patients. If he starts prescribing  that sort of natural product he will lose his medical license, I am told.

             


WEIRDZLY!

[need]

Dear Spastral. Why not try the Bach Flower Remedies or the Ainsworth Flower remedies. Try Olive and Hornbeam to help you return to feeling energetic. Take two drops in a full glass of spring water . Or use the technique recommended by the makers.  

[SPASTRAL]

Hi Need,

Never heard of what you are suggesting, where can I get it from.

This thread has shown that a lot of people are suffering.  Can you imagine if this was a public forum that everyone looked at!

Keep this going everyone.  It's good to see people sharing experiences, especially when they are very personal.

Regards,
Spencer

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

I am an up-and-downer myself... never been on anything though, I do not - swear to god - judge people that takes a.d´s, but considering I have always been extremely hard on myself and judging myself, I would probably view it as a personal failure (stupid sence of illusive "proud" you know) if I were to take them. Strange since I don´t view others taking them in that light (or dark?).

  One thing that helps me relax (depression could perhaps be viewed as problem relaxing really, don´t you think?) and break up all the neg thoughts, is to constantly tell myself two things Jesus (I am not religious, but still I believe there was a very wise man in tuned with the secrets of the universe, the man we call Jesus) alledgably (sp?) said; 1) "God will always love you" (we can all agree on there being a "supreme" power can´t we? call it god or whatever)  2) "Let not your heart be troubled, and let it not be in fear" (I try to look at it as a commandment)  and finally number 3) (said by a fictive character named Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Knight;) "Always remember, your focus determines your reality"

    They act like  reminders that no matter what, god will always love me, and that is all I need, so why worry about anything, just relax and let go. And I am a "creative god" myself, I must be, since my focus determines my reality...

  Be well, and don´t be so hard on yourself //Rikard


- Your focus determines your reality -

[need]

Hi S,

You can get the flower essences from Boots or a good health shop.
I used the Bach flowers and I find them helpful. Lately I've been told that the ainsworth flower remedies  are made to the specific requirements of Dr Edward Bach. And it could be better to take those. I found them both effective however the Bach Flower Remedies made by Nelson are actually a liquid homoeopathic preparation not simply flower essences. So many people are recommending those rather than Nelson's.


all the best

need