Anyone else think Christianity discriminates?

[NickJW]

Things like the KKK and Terrorist groups are evil. Know why? Because they discriminate against other cultures, races and religions. So why is it okay for Christians (not all of them but alot of them) to discriminate aginst other religions. In my experiences as a Christian, I learned that they think anyone who isn't Christian burns in hell no matter how good of a person they may be, and in a few cases, telling me not to socialize with non-christians. I even got beat up once for not agreeing with someone that my friend should burn in hell and get his turban ripped off. However, all this did was turn me away from Christianity.

Does anyone else agree with me that alot of Christian teachings are not good hearted?

[MisterJingo]

I don't think Christianity is to blame for such actions and beliefs. I think the people who follow Christianity are to blame for such actions and beliefs. I have nothing wrong with Christianity or any other religion, but holding hatred againt, or criticising a religion does nothing but hold hatred and negativity in yourself.

[NickJW]

I agree with you mostly, but modern christianity seems to twist these beliefs into their teachings, but I think original Christianity probly was a good religion. The only thing is, is that people have more power over the religion than they should and people shouldn't be aloud to change it in anyway, but..... they have.

[Logic]

Christianity as a belief wouldn't exist without people to believe it, so yes I think atleast part of christianity definatley discriminates.

[MisterJingo]

The reason I take my view is because I know a lot of very open-minded liberal Christians, I even discuss my AP experiences with them, and my beliefs on the afterlife and God. They don't necessarily agree with me, but they enjoy exchanging ideas and don't class me as a lunatic outright But conversely I know some very closed minded Christians too.
So I reason that if the religion was inherently discriminate, there wouldnt be any open-minded Christians such as my friends are.

[Colossus999]

I am a Christian, but i don't believe that what we do is "discrimination".
We do believe that you go to hell if you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins, but the way to persuade you to agree with us isn't to beat you up, so obviously what I say doesn't apply to all Christians. The bible preaches acceptance, so I believe Christians who would beat you up for that are not following the bible. I won't deny that some Christians are like that, but don't let them turn you away from the bible.

[Palehorse]

So why is it okay for Christians (not all of them but alot of them) to discriminate aginst other religions.

Unless you're a relativist, I'd wager you do your fair share of "discrimination" too.  If you embrace a given belief as true, then logically you reject all mutually contradictory views as false.  IMO, the only time it becomes a problem is when one lacks the ability to allow for the possibility that they could be wrong, or when one feels that their belief gives them a divine mandate to be an arse to their fellow human beings.  Otherwise, it's the mark of maturity to be able to disagree with someone and still fully enjoy their company and treat them as an equal.

In my experiences as a Christian, I learned that they think anyone who isn't Christian burns in hell no matter how good of a person they may be, and in a few cases, telling me not to socialize with non-christians.

I'm sorry you've had such negative experiences.  However, as a Christian who has more non-Christian friends than Christian ones, is dating a Jew, and rejects the traditional concept of Hell as being poisonous and false, I can tell you that said experience is not true for all Christians.

Does anyone else agree with me that alot of Christian teachings are not good hearted?

No, because any teaching that is not compatible with the statement "God is love" is not a Christian teaching -- it's a false teaching with Christian packaging.

The reason I take my view is because I know a lot of very open-minded liberal Christians, I even discuss my AP experiences with them, and my beliefs on the afterlife and God. They don't necessarily agree with me, but they enjoy exchanging ideas and don't class me as a lunatic outright

You're no more of a lunatic than I am (and you can take that how you will... muahaha).  My own religious beliefs are part of what brought me here -- I believe we have what could be considered a responsibility to explore all that we, and this thing we call "reality" are capable of, and that includes AP.  I just wish I didn't suck so much at it.  

[NickJW]

So why is it okay for Christians (not all of them but alot of them) to discriminate aginst other religions.

Unless you're a relativist, I'd wager you do your fair share of "discrimination" too.  If you embrace a given belief as true, then logically you reject all mutually contradictory views as false.  IMO, the only time it becomes a problem is when one lacks the ability to allow for the possibility that they could be wrong, or when one feels that their belief gives them a divine mandate to be an arse to their fellow human beings.  Otherwise, it's the mark of maturity to be able to disagree with someone and still fully enjoy their company and treat them as an equal.

I accept others beliefs, and am open to them. It dosen't mean I believe in them, but it dosen't mean that their wrong. Christians on the other hand, straight up tell you that what you believe in is wrong. They aren't open to anyone's beliefs and focus their attention on converting people becuase they think their religion is BETTER than everyone elses.

"IMO, the only time it becomes a problem is when one lacks the ability to allow for the possibility that they could be wrong, or when one feels that their belief gives them a divine mandate to be an arse to their fellow human beings." - this is exactly what Christians do. I do think I could be wrong in my beliefs, but that is a quality Christians lack.

(P.S.) Once again, I'm not describing all Christians, but the majority of Christians that I've met are like this.

[Palehorse]

I accept others beliefs, and am open to them. It dosen't mean I believein them, but it dosen't mean that their wrong.

I don't know if you're a theist or an atheist... but using that as an example, if you're a theist, then naturally you believe all atheists are wrong.  If you're an atheist, then to you, all theists are wrong.  Many beliefs are like this in that they logically exclude their opposite, and I'd be willing to bet you hold a few yourself.

Christians on the otherhand, straight up tell you that what you believe in is wrong. Theyaren't open to anyone's beliefs and focus their attention on convertingpeople becuase they think their religion is BETTER than everyone elses.

For the Christians you speak of, the focus is not on what's "better," but what is true.  If we assume for the sake of argument that Christianity IS true, then why shouldn't they share what they have with others?  On the other hand, if you're both secure in your beliefs and willing to admit that you may be wrong as you indicated below, then why should it matter to you what Christians think?

IMO, the only time it becomes a problem is when one lacks the ability to allow for the possibility that they could be wrong, or when one feels that their belief gives them a divine mandate to be an arseto their fellow human beings.

- this is exactly what Christians do. I do think I could be wrong in my beliefs, but that is a qualityChristians lack.

I don't think this is really a Christian issue per se, but rather a very human one.  Most people, no matter what their religion or lack thereof, are not terribly willing to admit any possibility that their most deeply cherished beliefs may be wrong.  Granted, many Christians do have this problem, but I think the real issue is that we notice it more from Christians because we both live in countries where they are the majority.  If you lived in, for instance, Iran, then you'd probably be saying the very same thing about Muslims.

(P.S.) Once again, I'm not describing all Christians, but the majority of Christians that I've met are like this.

You are still generalizing, however... and I'm trying to show that all generalizations are wrong.  Including this one.  

[Mustardseed]

Dear Palehorse

I always get a lot out of your posts, very insightful. I loved your last generalization    

A while back there was a thread where someone asked if "the occult was bad. Different folks came to the fore and posted their view until RB noticed the thread and graced us with a very interesting comment. Actually very obvious. He asked everyone to define the occult before determining it was evil. It seem that in this situation the same could be the case.

Before we get so far into Christianity this and Christianity that let us define Christian. Maybe Exothen can help us define it as well. It seems that a Christian is someone who believes IN something. Fx That he is saved THROUGH faith in Jesus. He does not get defined negatively, i.e. a Christian does not believe etc. It seems that this is the difference between the 10 commandments and the Christian era. Do and don't. The commandments were rules to be upheld, an action that demanded a counter action. The new Testament seems to indicate however, that the action was the sacrifice so to speak, and faith put into various belief based activities are the counter action, not essential to salvation but rather a result of Salvation.

This is how I define Christianity or a Christian, how does it look from over there

Regards Mustardseed

[Palehorse]

I always get a lot out of your posts, very insightful. I loved your last generalization  

Heh, thank ya.  I always get a lot out of your posts too.

This is how I define Christianity or a Christian, how does it look from over there

Very good point about the need to define our terms first.  All too often a discussion will start going in circles simply because the participants aren't even on the same page, and so could be talking about totally different things without even realizing.  So, good call there.

For our purposes, I define a Christian as someone whose belief system centers on the person Jesus of Nazareth, and who has at least the desire to follow his teachings.

You might notice my definition is about as inclusive as it gets, and that's my intention.  I mean to include everyone who self-identifies as Christian, regardless of whether I agree with their particular take on it, or whether their actions seem to reflect their faith.  Could this cause me to mislabel someone?  Possibly, but who am I to decide that?  I can debate the validity of specific beliefs, and make value judgments about actions, but that's where my abilities end.  They do not include the ability to judge men's hearts.  Especially for the purpose of open discussion, I find that if someone wants to call himself a Christian, then everyone involved is better off if I simply take him at his word.  Sure, I may vastly disagree with something about his approach, but at the very least, he'll be a lot more likely to listen to my take on it if I haven't immediately and rudely invalidated his whole belief system.  This is particularly useful when discussing with those of a more conservative persuasion (which is, incidentally, usually who I disagree with most strongly) as nothing shuts down such a one faster than invalidating that which they hold most dear.

And I think that about sums up my position on it.

[NickJW]

Oh no. Not Exothen!
You can contradict someones beliefs but be open, and not tell them that they are wrong, because they might be right.
Christians contradict someones beliefs but are not open to it, and only believe that they can possibly be right. They might kick someone out of their church for contradicting them the slightest bit.

That is the difference from not believing someone's beliefs, and disciminating. Christians think they know the truth so why shouldn't they try to convert people? Well, people don't want to hear it, espescially when Christians have no proof that they're right. Buddhists etc. think they are right, but they aren't trying to force their religion onto others. And they aren't saying everyone elses beliefs are wrong.

But somehow you still think that if you don't believe in someone's beliefs you are discrminating. I think there is a big difference between that what was mentioned and what Christians do.

[Palehorse]

You can contradict someones beliefs but be open, and not tell them that they are wrong, because they might be right.

No, you don't have to tell them they're wrong, but by contradicting, you've already implied it.

What I'm trying to get across here is that being told you're wrong isn't necessarily a bad thing.  If you can get past the natural emotional reaction and evaluate what is being said objectively, then it will cause you to re-evaluate your own beliefs, which will then either be strengthened or discarded and replaced.  Such is how personal growth is achieved.  I think that if you could learn to view Christians (and anyone you disagree with, really) as playing a necessary role, even providing a service, they will become much easier for you to deal with.  After all, they're telling you this either because they genuinely care about you, or because they feel a desparate need to validate themselves, and it shouldn't be too hard to figure out who's who before long.  If they're the former, then at the very least you can thank them for their concern and move on.  If it's the latter, maybe you could even help them to recognize their true motivations.

Christians contradict someones beliefs but are not open to it, and only believe that they can possibly be right.

First, I hope you'll take MustardSeed's suggestion to define exactly what you mean by "Christian," just to make sure we're all on the same page here.

Secondly, you're generalizing again.  There are Christians who do what you're describing and Christians who don't.  The same could be said for just about any belief system.  For instance, I've met some pretty militant atheists who are completely closed to the possibility that they could be wrong about the existence of a higher power, treat said possibility with derision, and spend a large portion of their time trying to force others to see the error of our ways.  Then again, I can't generalize about all atheists, as there are some really nice ones out there who couldn't care less about forcing their views on others; they simply lack a belief in God, and that's that.  Thus, your statement becomes essentially meaningless.

I think it should also be brought to your attention that your statements about Christianity are serving to tell us more about your emotional hangups with the religion than they are about the religion itself.

They might kick someone out oftheir church for contradicting them the slightest bit.

Who are "they"?  No two Christians interpret the Bible exactly alike if they've put any reasonable amount of thought into their beliefs, so any church who actually did this would soon become a very small church indeed.  Granted, some churches are more accepting of diversity than others, and some tend toward the more authoritarian side when it comes to their own brand of dogma, but that doesn't mean the latter is representing what Christ actually taught, or that all Christians should be judged according to the conduct of the few.

That is the difference from not believing someone's beliefs, and disciminating. Christians think they know the truth so why shouldn't they try to convert people? Well, people don't want to hear it,espescially when Christians have no proof that they're right.

More generalizations.  Obviously some people do want to hear it; otherwise Christianity would never gain any new converts.  However, if you've made it clear that you aren't receptive to what they have to say, and they continue in their efforts, then they are in violation of two specific "rules of engagement":

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.
      --Matt 10:34

Do to others as you would have them do to you.
      --Luke 6:31

Buddhists etc. think they are right, but they aren't trying to force their religion onto others. And they aren't saying everyone elses beliefs are wrong.

That's because Buddhism operates according to a completely different paradigm, doesn't make historical truth claims, and for the most part are not exclusivists.

But somehow you still think that if you don't believe in someone's beliefs you are discrminating.

dis·crim·i·nate
v. dis·crim·i·nat·ed, dis·crim·i·nat·ing, dis·crim·i·nates
v. intr.
1.
a. To make a clear distinction; distinguish: discriminate among the options available.
b. To make sensible decisions; judge wisely.
2.  
To make distinctions on the basis of class or category without regard to individual merit; show preference or prejudice

I post the dictionary definition not to be a smartass, but to show that it can be defined in two ways.  You appear to be focusing on the second, but I'm trying to show that although we all do the first, sometimes it's easy to judge people (like Christians) as if they've done the second, even if that's not their intent.  

Then again, I realize there are some Christians who will view you negatively if you aren't "in the club," but again, by doing so they are at odds with what Christ actually taught, and they are in the minority.

I think there is a big difference between that what was mentioned and what Christians do.

And I think you're discriminating against Christians here... and not in the good way.

[Colossus999]

that's a perfect description Mustard.

Palehorse, I was wondering why your name was PaleHorse. Does it represent the pale horseman of death in the 4 horses of the Apocalypse as described in Revelations?

[Palehorse]

Palehorse, I was wondering why your name was PaleHorse. Does it represent the pale horseman of death in the 4 horses of the Apocalypse as described in Revelations?

Bingo.

The story behind it (if yer interested, heh) is that I picked it as a representation of two major aspects of my personality.  First, for whatever reason I've always tended to gravitate toward "dark" imagery, even since I was a lil' kid and the Count was my favorite character on Sesame Street, lol (for those who don't know what I'm talking about, he's a little vampire puppet who's obsessed with numbers).  Secondly, there's my interest in all things having to do with theology, spirituality, etc.  So, I thought "Palehorse" summed up both rather nicely, and I've used it for pretty much everything since I first got online around six years ago.

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