Monism 21-day Poll

[Telos]

Is there anyone in this forum who is not a monist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism

Monism is the metaphysical position that all is of one essential essence, substance or energy. Please click on the above link for more info.

[Frank]

I'll show my hand.

Yours,
Frank

[S7]

I regard myself as a monist in that I have always seen it a bit silly to try and determine a precise location for the Divine. The Divine is everything and within everything in my opinion.

[ezekiel]

Just curious - what would be the other building blocks beside energy?  I guess I am a little confused.

[Blackstream]

Well science is showing that everything is made from identical building blocks (or at least 2 different building blocks), so I can see where that idea might come from.  However, I don't take the metaphysical approach in saying that we are all one being.

[Stillwater]

Oh....

When I saw "Monism", I thought of the concept posed in psychology that the mind and body are of the same substance, and that the brain generates the mind, which would, in essence refute metaphysics.
I find it ironic that this idea, which is the polar opposite of that which I believed it was, should be denoted by the same word...

Anyhow, I am afraid I subsrcibe as well

[stone]

Telos,

Kudos on the thought-provoking topic.  I always knew of Monism but had never taken the time to consider whether or not I qualify as one.

I think I used to be a monist.  But my experience with all things Astral, is slowly pushing me away from that point of view.  While I do view everything as consisting of energy, I do believe that there are different forms of energy.  Energy which exists in the physical.  Energy that exists in the astral.  And then energy that co-mingles betwixt the two.

cheers,
Stone

[Nostic]

Well, I mean, no matter how many [apparently separate] things you have, don't they always add-up to ONE? I don't know how this could not be the case. Like all of the millions (billions?) of cells in our body add-up to make one functioning system. All of the elements and energies in existence add-up to make one universe (or multi-verse) etc etc. And all levels have to be connected or else it would be impossible for you to perceive or experience them. And if that's the case, as far as you're concerned, they don't exist.

But anyway...

[Veccolo]

> Do you agree with the metaphysical principles of Monism?

No.

[EnderZ]

First time I've herd of Monism. I'll have to learn some more before I can say anything on the topic. Sounds similar to my beliefes though.

-En

[catmeow]

Why stop at monism? Is there a doctrine of zeroism?  In which case I might be a zeroist.  In essence, all was created from nothing, and ultimately all creation might condense back into nothingness, once it has achieved its purpose.  This is a serious remark!  There might very well be a balance and interplay in creation in which all matter and energy cancels out into nothingness?  Well I see I have to vote to comment, so on reflection I vote yes...

catmeow

[Nostic]

Why stop at monism? Is there a doctrine of zeroism?  In which case I might be a zeroist.  In essence, all was created from nothing, and ultimately all creation might condense back into nothingness, once it has achieved its purpose.  This is a serious remark!  There might very well be a balance and interplay in creation in which all matter and energy cancels out into nothingness?  Well I see I have to vote to comment, so on reflection I vote yes...

catmeow

I agree, but I prefer to call the "nothing" pure potentiality.
In other words, saying that nothing exists is just like saying the potential for everything exists. Some kind of something had to exist before anything in creation existed though. The first cause must have been some kind of consciousness... something that started the process.

[no_leaf_clover]

My current thoughts (and as always subject to change):

We are such stuff
As dreams are made on and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep...

How real is anything we can think of?

[Telos]

Why stop at monism? Is there a doctrine of zeroism?  In which case I might be a zeroist.  In essence, all was created from nothing, and ultimately all creation might condense back into nothingness, once it has achieved its purpose.  This is a serious remark!  There might very well be a balance and interplay in creation in which all matter and energy cancels out into nothingness?  Well I see I have to vote to comment, so on reflection I vote yes...

catmeow

Catmeow, monism, dualism, pluralism are suppositions on the commonality about what stuff is made of, and not necessarily of what it was made from.

Even still, I think I'd side with Nostic. This definition of nothingness has added qualities to it, no longer making it a nothingness, but a "scapegoat stuff," that is, stuff that is responsible for all stuff.

If nothing created stuff, then there would have been no creation. Right?

[catmeow]

Hi Telos

Point understood, but I still like my term "zeroism"!   I'm not convinced anything actually exists in which case "zeroism" really is a valid alternative to monism!  

catmeow

[Willis]

I think...

I believe in monoism.  I interpret than "1 thing" to be not energy, not material, not potentiality, these are byproducts of consciousness.  So, readers digest version, I think the fundamental is wholeness, or oneness, or nothingness, choose your phrase, and this wholeness consists of consciousness, and everything that exists, including potentiality, exists so that consciousness can experience itself.

Word.  

[Telos]

Wat' chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

Consciousness, in the classic sense, is an ability. It requires that in order for someone to be conscious, he or she has to be conscious of something.

Humans are a special case among animals because we are conscious of the fact that we are conscious. We are conscious of consciousness.

But how does that translate to being conscious of a rock? Or being conscious of another person's thoughts, or being conscious of the future, and other mystical forms of consciousness?

[Frank]

Hello:

All action is consciousness but being conscious is a case of action that knows itself.

Yours,
Frank

[catmeow]

Consciousness, as I understand it, is awareness.  We need only be aware of our own awareness to be conscious.  There doesn't need to be any external "thing" for consciousness to exist.  Pretty boring existance, granted....

Oh, this was an interesting remark:

Humans are a special case among animals because we are conscious of the fact that we are conscious. We are conscious of consciousness.

But I suspect some other animals (eg dolphins) have the same self-awareness.  They certainly seem to understand the idea of mortality.

catmeow

[RJA]

A good book on the topic is "The Self-Aware Universe" by Amit Goswami.  

No offense to all of the mystical, spiritual, new age sorts - but what I often dislike about books on this subject is that they often ultimately amount to wild speculation based only on personal experience.  

What I like about this book is that it is written by a PhD Physics Professor at the University of Oregon, which lends it a certain scientific gravitas necessary to be taken seriously by a wider audience then the "new-agey" type approaches to consciousness and spirituality.

The author names his theory "monistic idealism" - the idea that consciousness (or awareness) is the ground of everything - i.e. the physical universe was created by (is an epiphenomina of) consciousness rather than vice versa (rationalism).

It's a fascinating discussion on the topic, well-balanced between scientific and spiritual components.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0874777984/qid=1107815733/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/103-8514585-6909455

[catmeow]

RJA

Thanks for the steer, sounds excellent, bookmarked it on Amazon already...

catmeow

[Willis]

All action is consciousness but being conscious is a case of action that knows itself.

Good thought Frank.  

Who's to say that at some level a rock isn't consciousness?  It may not be conscious of itself, but it may need to be part of the conscious continuum for something else to be conscious of it.    Well, if you understood that one, I have another...

Consciousness, I think, is the foundation of all action, including existence (potentiality realized).  Now the human body has the ability and is complex enough to interpret a large enough portion of this continuum to realize itself.  Consciousness becomes conscious of itself.  Rock is consciousness that does not have a physical vehicle complex enough to be conscious of itself.  However, the spiritual vehicle of a rock may (or may not) be complex enough to realize it exists.  

Consciousness, on whatever level, creates the potential to exist (spirit), then realizes that potential (physical), then experiences that realization (self awareness).  Next step:  after self-awareness is whole-awareness.  

[Nagual]

Missing poll option: - No idea.

[Telos]

Okay, rephrase the question. Are electrons and morons manifestations of the same thing, or not?

[Tombo]

I would vote for Monism.
Has anyone experienced something that didn't consist of consciousness? All things I experience pop up in my mind ,so to speak, therefore I would conclude there is only mind.

Cheers Tom