Believe Systems

[weetabix]

Hi all of you !

I have observed that every time someone tell his opinion there will be someone else to reply that it is dogma or manipulation.  And that's the end of a great discussion. Emotion and ego speak lound.... Fact is that it is true... 90 % of this forum contents is just what it is : opinions and believes !

Does an alien have taken control of my soul and making me be so anger !?  
Don't worry ! God's love will surround you !  

Hey !? There is no such thing as Astral ! (keep reading)
Many people come here just to be told exactly the opposite. They want to believe it with all their heart. DO YOU REALLY NEED TO BELIEVE IT ? Why don't you make it a reality hey !? Does it not sound better ? (here I have a thought for Robert's catch basket system)

Same thing apply for all topic. Don't argue that it is opinion or believe... truth is that you probably don't know where yours come from.

So now, can we just be open minded and help each others (or am I too naive ?)
-Weeta

[jason]

many people toss around belief systems at each other w/out realizing that is all they are....

...and if I had a dime for every time I noticed someone mistaking a belief system for absolute fact,I'd be a billionaire .

I've found that most people do not even uderstand the meaning of the phrase "belief system".I really wish we could,as a species,get beyond mere belief systems,to a more profound form of awareness.

As to the source of belief systems,faith is a very poor substitute for knowledge!

[Telos]

Thank you for starting this topic, weetabix. Given its importance to discussions on "creating reality," I'd love to have a critical analysis of belief itself, instead of a critical analysis of the various belief systems.

It seems the modern trend is to take a laissez faire approach. If there is any discourse, it concludes at, "you have your beliefs, I have mine." This happens even among atheists, who retreat to their belief that there is no God, or among skeptics, who fall back on their belief in doubt.

Since belief appears to be universal, I'd be very grateful for insight on how belief first originates and how it can be managed.

As with all matters of understanding, I summon my particular holy book. The dictionary.

be·lief n.

1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.

2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.

3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

Depending on the context, "belief" can mean many things. But where does it start? Does it start from a common context?

Definition 1 appears to have two requirements.

1) A self who does not know or has not experienced a particular something.
2) An other who claims to know or have experienced said something.

In this case, the self requires another person in order to have belief.

Definition 2, however, does not require an other. One can have belief in something and have never met another person. In this case, the other is replaced by universal time, the possibility that events have happened elsewhere in the past and will happen in the future.

Definition 3 seems to require both, and incidentally includes both religion and the sciences. Religion and science serve the same purpose - to describe the experiences of others and to declare the past while predicting the future. In questioning definition 3, just take your pick of the various belief systems. Can we somehow avoid all belief systems completely? If so, how? What happens to belief - does it change or disappear? If we eliminate def 3, what happens to defs 1 and 2?

Should we further eliminate 1 and 2? Why not? Isn't it preferable to know than believe? Let's try it.

Is it possible to have belief without the presence of others, and without the presence of universal time? No. Does the presence of either one of these require belief? Yes. What if time and other people don't exist? Well, you can't "believe" that unless one of them was there in the first place.

Eliminating time and other people eliminates belief. Can this happen? Yes. How? Apparently, through the combination of isolation and meditation. Since others in the social order behave as though time and others exist, it's notoriously difficult to act around them as if they don't. The best you can do it seems is act as though they are You, a large multidimensional You where your ego is but one small facet. It only looks like they're not you, and it only looks like there are perpetrators and victims.

But... why does it look way in the first place?

Good question. In order to explain that, you tend to fall on belief. But you don't want belief, as we've just established. It's better to have truth and knowledge.

And you can't have full disclosure of truth unless time and others both cease to exist, as they appear.

What do you think?

[weetabix]

Wow... you've raised many good information Telos.

I think it would be not easy to make

time and others both cease to exist

So maybe should we just see their believes (and/or perceptions) for what their are... an other point of view.

I have faith

It make me wonder... so I'll use the dictionary technic  

faith  
  1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
  2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
  3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
  4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
  5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
  6. A set of principles or beliefs.

mmhh...  there is four definition using "belief" and one using "dogma"... was you speaking about loyalty (#3) ?  

[Frank]

Hi:

We cannot go "beyond" belief systems. Our whole physical reality is founded and created from them. We can move into a mental construct of acceptance of belief systems, which is what we are set to do as it happens.

Yours,
Frank

[weetabix]

More I think about it, more it's difficult to distinguish knowledge from believe. Example : I know I don't AP... but I know that I could ! I've absolutely no doubt about it.

So, is it really a knowledge or a believe ??  What make me be so sure (confident, trust in myself) ?

[Leannain]

Believe Systems,like religions?

well i don't believe in "god"gods or godess" like the greek gods or eygptian gods"

for me gods are the genius of mankind like copernicus,newton,openha(damn spelling ^^)
people that were far superior to all other in their field of work.
people that made mankind go foward

those are my gods