What exactly is a philosophers stone?

[jason]

Saw this term on another thread,and I've heard of it before,but I've never known what it meant.

[Frank]

Hi:

I believe it's a kind of fungus, sort of, mushroom like. Something that when ingested can give a person whacky experiences.

Yours,
Frank

[no_leaf_clover]

From answers.com via a Google search:

The stone or material that practitioners of alchemy believed capable of changing other metals into gold...Figuratively, the "philosopher's stone" is a substance thought to be capable of regenerating man spiritually.

[Nay]

You were close Frank..

First thing that came to my mind, was Harry Potter..lol. go figure.

[Frank]

Hi:

But it is a kind of fungus, I just checked. Do a search on philosophers stone +fungus.

I thought it was, because they talk about it here. Where I live is truffle country. In the late autumn they come along with their trained pigs, sniffing them out from the roots of all the oak trees in the woods around here.

Yours,
Frank

[Nay]

"truffle county"  well, that makes sense, no wonder!  

Saw a program on the whole pig snuffing thing.....dang, those truffle's must be good, cause they had to pull that hog OFF the root...

[atalanta]

'The Philosopher's Stone' is the first of the series of Harry Potter books.  The stone is prized because it is said that even if you are within a thread of dying the stone will bring you back to life.  It heals, regenerates and provides the possessor with immortality.  The stone was wanted by the evil Lord Voldemort who had killed Harry's parents because he had tried to kill Harry with a curse and it backfired and killed him.  Voldemort however, survived by taking over the bodies of small animals.  The animals didn't live long and he was eager to get the stone because it would bring him back to life.  Harry thwarted the attempt and the stone was destroyed.  

By book five Voldemort, through the aid of a servant, a Death Eater called Wormtail, comes back to life but he isn't exactly human yet.  He is sort of like a cross between a snake and a human being.  

Book 6, comes out in early July and the movie later in the year.  Can't wait!  Grab a copy of the first one and have a read.  I thought it was all hype and I wouldn't read or like it, but I got hooked against my will.  Wonder if there isn't some sorcery going on about the book.

[Frank]

He he you see, Nay, they are the ones confused, not me, lol. If you read the actual question then the answer is clear. There is a significant difference between The Philosophers Stone and a philosophers stone. The latter is what the original poster is asking about, not the former. Unless jason got his grammatical expressions in a twist. :)

The answer given by NLC is also incorrect, as his response clearly opens with, "Figuratively, the philosopher's stone....". When the original question clearly states, "What exactly is a philosophers stone." An exact definition, by definition, cannot be a figurative definition.

So that's 2-0 to Frank, ha ha ha ha ha...

Yours,
Frank

[beavis]

theres a few kinds of fungus good for "philosophising"  

[Nay]

*nay's head explodes*

See what you did Frank? haha  Beavis, you're scaring me again.

[Telos]

Actually, Frank, your definition is the figurative one.

At least, according to Wikipedia:

In modern times, Philosopher's Stone has become a slang name for an hallucinogenic mushroom, Psilocybe mexicana or P. tampanensis, closely related to the more well-known Psilocybe cubensis. See Psilocybe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher's_stone

You have to scroll all the way down. And, no, I did not just add that to the article for the purpose of having the chance to correct Frank. :)

[Frank]

Telos:

Nice try but no cigar. If it is an actual slang name then it can't be figurative. So that makes it 3-0. LOL, I'm on a roll.

Gonna buy a lottery ticket tomorrow. Ha ha ha ha...

Yours,
Frank

[Telos]

What? Slang isn't figurative language?!

crap!!

[no_leaf_clover]

If it is an actual slang name then it can't be figurative.

What? lol

And yes, I told him exactly what a philosopher's stone was - figuratively! Perhaps 'figuratively' was implied by the post, which would support the idea that it was figurative, because it didn't exactly exist.

See, it all makes perfect sense.

[Frank]

Telos:

I'll give you half a point, lol.

It depends on the slang used, of course. If it is common slang then this is merely a situation where people are using different words that are ordinarily known to describe a particular thing. That is what I meant by "actual slang name" in my previous post. In other words, in this event I would argue there is no metaphorical element.

My example, here, would be that of the noun: bling-bling, as in ostentatious jewellery. This is clearly a slang term. But note that the common meaning of the noun is the meaning I have described. Bling-bling has no other more common meaning from which an implicit comparison may be drawn.
   
As I am sure you are aware, for an expression to be figurative there must be a metaphorical element that creates an implicit comparison.

I do accept that a group of people may, for one reason or another, develop a particular manner of speaking where certain figures of speech represent other known words or phrases. That, of course, would be speaking figuratively. For example, the term "mechanic" representing the term "assassin" in underworld patois. This is clearly figurative as the term mechanic, to most people, ordinarily means one thing, yet to the group in question it represents another thing entirely.

The question, here, is not whether slang, per se, is figurative speech or not. Because when you analyse the facts of it, in some cases slang could definitely be said to be figurative, and in other cases slang is merely the use of a more commonly known term, for any particular thing.

The key questions are:

Is philosophers-stone a figurative representation of a certain hallucinogenic mushroom? Or is philosophers-stone simply a common-o-garden, modern-day term for the said fungus?

In evidence, I refer you to your source, who clearly state, and I quote: "In modern times, Philosopher's Stone has become a slang name for an hallucinogenic mushroom, Psilocybe mexicana..."

I would suggest, therefore, the latter of the two questions above could be the only rightful course.

According to your source, the term philosophers-stone, these days, has but one common meaning. In which case there can be no metaphorical element. Hence no implicit comparison can possibly be drawn between philosophers-stone and the hallucinogenic mushroom in question. For the simple reason philosophers stone is[/u] the applicable term for the said mushroom, and is not a common term for any other thing in accordance with our current understanding.

That concludes the case for the defence, your honour. :)

Yours in sport,
Frank

PS
NLC: LMAO!

[sweetbliss]

It's the Self!
Check on 'philosopher stone' and 'Jung'.

A later account (this is taken from Jung's Alchemical Studies) says: "And as man is composed of the four elements, so also is the stone, and so it is [dug] out of man, and you are its ore, namely by working; and from you it is extracted, namely by division; and in you it remains inseparably, namely through science." Also, "The whole of nature converges in man as in a centre, and one participates in the other, and man has not unjustly concluded that the material of the philosophical stone may be found everywhere."

Here you have some other links:

http://www.thezodiac.com/alchemy.htm
http://www.tearsofllorona.com/jungdefs.html

Philosopher's Stone/Lapis Philosophorum: Also known as the ultima materia, aqua permanens (=its libido aspect), rubedo tinctura, filius macrocosmi or philosophorum, quinta essentia, panacea, medicina catholica, rotundrum, elixir vitae, lapis exilis (stone of no worth), everlasting food): the Philosopher's Stone, prized goal of alchemy. According to legend, the Stone, a freed form of the spirit of Mercurius trapped within the prima materia or initially unprocessed raw material, grants immortality, heals all disease, and transforms base metals into gold. Jung saw it as a Self symbol--one compensating Christ--and the goal of individuation.

http://www.occultopedia.com/p/philosophers_stone.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/synchronicity.html
etc.


I wish you'll find it!

[Telos]

You're right, Frank. And I know, I just made a mistake. :)

An open source encyclopedic reference is borderline because it is not as definitive as a dictionary reference. Still, I consider the case closed as well.

Now, what on earth is a sorcerer's stone? lol

[Frank]

Telos:

But you can still have the half a point, I don't mind as I'm about to take a full point off sweetbliss, lol.

Yours,
Frank

[GANAMOHA]

Well if you werent to refer to the harry potters series its something an alchemist ( quite rare these days) would see it as a gift from the gods in a metaphoric sense. Its purpose that could best be served would be to defy the laws of equivalent exchange. Such as make a tree something of equal value must be given. with the philosophers stone thoses rules do not applie at all. Giving on going energy supply. Without things to give equivalent exchange you cant really do anything the only thing I can do is make energy portals around the house to give a good flow its pretty cool

[sweetbliss]

Why do you want to take a full point off me?

I didn't understand.  

[Cebren Girinis]

I would like to know where the first thread was that menbtioned the stone and in what context. Then perhaps points can be given.

Anyway, this is a really funny conversation. Is the person who asked the question even still watching this thread, or has it become a battleground between the argument over the definition or figuration of the philosphers stone? (I don't think "figuration" is a word, but you guys should know what I mean if you've even half read the thread... plus if a word like "googled" can be created by a movie and used on the radio, I figure I can create a word in a post! LOL) 8P

[Cebren Girinis]

Ooh. BTW, if you are talking about the figurative version... (I'm not asking to getin on the argument) many people argue that the philosophers stone CHANGES PURPOSE according to the users definition.

For example: Quartz can easily be one persons philosphers stone if it is potent and grants "abilities" the person would not normally have. IE: auric vision enhancement... (GREATLY CHARGED stone.)

Another example is Kundalini. If the goal of a person would be to gain imortal life or heal themselves, Mr. Bruce himself hints that Kundalini, if GREATLY advanced, might be able to REVERSE the aging of the physical body. Plus, most of us know that energy work is a rather potent at healing.

Just a thought.

[jason]

I would like to know where the first thread was that menbtioned the stone and in what context. Then perhaps points can be given.

Anyway, this is a really funny conversation. Is the person who asked the question even still watching this thread, or has it become a battleground between the argument over the definition or figuration of the philosphers stone? (I don't think "figuration" is a word, but you guys should know what I mean if you've even half read the thread... plus if a word like "googled" can be created by a movie and used on the radio, I figure I can create a word in a post! LOL) 8P

yes,I'm still watching this thread,and no, I don't remember where I saw the term itself.

Sweetbliss's findings "Lapis Philosophorum"-The prized goal of alchemy,are very interesting.Judging by it's definition,such a thing might not even exist as an absolute.

[redcatherine]

the philosopher is the seeker
the fool who becomes the magician
but ultimately returns to become the fool
once again on the journey

the stone is the seeker's anchor which once removed
allows the seeker to fly
untethered  by its weight
as a Phoenix to enlightenment

but the stone is a unique impediment for each seeker
so perhaps it is best to describe it as
the fungus
after all
the part around the heart of the seeker which can be so delicious
as are the ways of the world and
..... truffles

or so deadly ...
as a poison

is the stone the Akasha then ?
as the self connected with the universal mind ?
the truly controlled spirit
.... thought word and action

or is it the mundane negativity and ego
of the physical self of each human
that makes the boots lead and the spirit heavy ?
is it only what we must rid ourselves of
the traps of mind body and soul

 my spouse says it is the fuzz on the turd  

come to think of it i never saw a fuzzy one what is he on about
oh well .....
these are thoughts truly about the BASE nature of humanity ...hmmm

Jesus is a Philosopher's Stone for some seekers but  a catalyst too ...
Christ can be the shepherd of souls  to enlightenment
and paradoxically the one who may prevent it's noble inception
due to the perverse nature of many of his  followers
to remain cloistered and separated  in the paddock
with mufflers and blinders

unable to leave the familiar ground of Hollow Heavens
as Robert Monroe would say

IT is a paradox that the religious often are clouded
worse
than the unaware
into mindsets that will not be liberated

how curious
that some become so steeped in religion
as to lose sight of its ultimate goal
and sink lower than the stone they arrived with
into a sea of lost souls
unaware of their beauty or even their own death

...The Christ is a bringer of sheep to the turning away
...to be slaughtered once more in vain
or to rise a notch more and move forward on their journey

All paths lead to God
each seeker has a stone
the rolling stone gathers no moss
and no fuzz either lol

don't search for the stone
as the ultimate  treasure
it is but a stepping stone
to your own path

[jason]

That is a fantastic post (poem actually), redcatherine.

I've often thought of it as a tool of ascension.

Even the turd can be seen as a metaphor for unrealized forms of conciousness,versus the conciousness of someone who,at least seeks trancendence .

And,in a minor form of syncronicity,there's a child beside me in one of those covered strollers beside me in the library,who cries because it looks as if she's trapped in it,and doesn't even have enough room to stretch her legs.She obviously wants to be free.

Blunt, but realistic metaphors!