Re-Revolution in Common Sense

[JoWo]

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Hello Telos,
I wrote:

It makes a difference whether you understand it as a beautiful philosophy or with the certainty of a law of physics. It's the difference between nice moral guidelines versus hard-nosed rational common sense.

You answered:

Yes, I agree. The science of ecology is hard-nosed rational common sense. What affects part of the ecosystem affects the whole ecosystem. What effects one ecosystem affects other apparently different ecosystems. There it is - hard-nosed rational common sense without the need for extra dimensions, or any understanding of quantum physics. While still beautiful!

You did not get my point, Telos, and I don't believe that any further discussion will change that.  I am sorry.

Jo.

[Telos]

JoWo, I was introducing the point that you may not be as hard nosed at you think. Will you at least consider answering this one question?

I said,

With regards to quantum physics, I don't think you can say that extra dimensions are necessary to explain subatomic particles. They might be sufficient for some explanations, and still not necessary.

Are extra dimensions necessary for subatomic particles?

[Edit: I think that is a slightly different question from asking whether or not such dimensions exist.]

[JoWo]

Telos,

As I see it, the extra dimensions make it a lot easier to explain quantum phenomena, similar to how it was easier to assume that the Earth rotates around the Sun, and not the other way around.  At that time, it was not considered necessary to make that assumption, but it sure helped.

Jo.

[JoWo]

Hello Everyone,

Telos and I agreed in a PM conversation that we misunderstood one another because our language is too limited to clearly express multiple "degrees of freedom"   .  Our dialog led also to a new subject.  Please see the topic: "What is the will of All-Entity?"

[Tombo]

JoWo

I just read your article for the first time and must say I'm stunned. It is really a great article. almost I would say the work of a genius, except maybe the last sentence:

Americans could lead this trend with a renewed American Dream.

Why do have Americans to be so patriotic?  

Anyways you present the ideas very well and manage to fuse science with Spirituality without creating a mess (like most others) I really think it is a breakthrough in thinking, It makes sense!
. At least I haven't read about this holon-ideas before, maybe I don't read enough...........
I have some questions though:

-Holon concept works, as I understand it, only if you have something besides the Holon. For example the Kristal + 3D-Space because you need a Place for the holon to exist. So, would this lead to the conclusion that there is something outside All-Entity?

-Did I understand you right that All-Entity does evolve and grow?
This again gives me headaches. If something evolves doesn't that mean it was less evolved once thus started to exist once?

-How can All-Entity have a will? If something is all there is, there is no Place to go, therefore a will is meaningless

-Do you have a theory how mind can interact with matter?

Cheers Tom

[JoWo]

Hello Tombo

Thank you very much for your flattering comments, though I don't consider myself being in the genius category   .

I would say the work of a genius, except maybe the last sentence:
Quote:
"Americans could lead this trend with a renewed American Dream."

Why do have Americans to be so patriotic?

Having come from Germany (decades ago), I intended this comment to be encouraging, not as an expression of one-upmanship   .

Holon concept works, as I understand it, only if you have something besides the Holon. For example the Kristal + 3D-Space because you need a Place for the holon to exist. So, would this lead to the conclusion that there is something outside All-Entity?

Excellent question! Please note that I wrote:

Imagine a cut crystal, say a diamond, and consider only its form, ignoring its material

In other words, we are thinking of space only, and the crystal does not actually exist except in our mind.  It is a "thought experiment".  The holon concept does not require anything outside the holon.  

Did I understand you right that All-Entity does evolve and grow?
This again gives me headaches. If something evolves doesn't that mean it was less evolved once thus started to exist once?

The holistic Whole of the universe, which I called All-Entity, is in a continuous state of flux.  Otherwise it would be dead, and we would be dead with it.  Seers have said that All-Entity is "breezing" in and out over eons, endlessly.  Remember that this is in our terminology. In ultimate reality, time does not exist in our terms.  There is no beginning and no end.  Rather think of life evolving in circles or spirals.

How can All-Entity have a will? If something is all there is, there is no Place to go, therefore a will is meaningless  

Excellent point again. Please read the topic "What is the will of All-Entity"

Do you have a theory how mind can interact with matter?

Yes:  all possible situations do already exist in multi-dimensional reality.  We "realize" in our physical environment only what resonates with our mindset.  For more information, please consult my book, "Understanding the Grand Design".  It's too much for this forum.

Jo.

[Tombo]

Seers have said that All-Entity is "breezing" in and out over eons, endlessly. Remember that this is in our terminology. In ultimate reality, time does not exist in our terms. There is no beginning and no end. Rather think of life evolving in circles or spirals.

I can accept that time is probably just a human thing, but I can not understand it

If something evolves in Circles does imply that it goes back to were it was sooner or later. Isn't that kind of dead as well? a dynamic dead in a way. I would prefer a Universe that has the potential to create new things. Going in Circles does sound kind of boring..........

Yes: all possible situations do already exist in multi-dimensional reality.

By this do you mean all states our Universe can possibly have? Like a complete identical Universe to our current one just with the exception that one molecule is moving in a sightly different angle? Meaning that there is a Universe were I killed my sister, married my mother etc...
This does sound pretty self-defeating, if you ask me.

Do you have a theory how mind can interact with matter?

What do you think about the following theory?
In order to interact two things most poses similar "properties". For example: Time can not interact with Color, Mass can  interact with Energy.......
Therefore I would conclude that Mind and matter may appear different but that they are in fact made out of the same thing. Matter may just be frozen thought, Or may be thoughts from the All-Entity.
I dont know if I was able to bring my point across, kind of hard in english........

For more information, please consult my book, "Understanding the Grand Design". It's too much for this forum.

I'll put it on my wish list, has it been published in german? BTW I'm Swiss

[UniOne]

http://home.ripway.com/2005-2/265334/Uni-Force.doc

Click here and read the link... Although it might not deal entirely with different dimensions... It does involve human/spirit/environment interaction...