Sucide of a "Spiritual" Prodigy

[Telos]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/death_of_a_prodigy

He started reading as a toddler, played piano at age 3 and delivered a high school commencement speech in cap and gown when he was just 10 — his eyes barely visible over the podium.

Brandenn Bremmer was a child prodigy: He composed and recorded music, won piano competitions, breezed through college courses with an off-the-charts IQ and mastered everything from archery to photography, hurtling through life precociously. Then, last Tuesday, Brandenn was found dead in his Nebraska home from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to his head.

He was just 14. He left no note.

"Sometimes we wonder if maybe the physical, earthly world didn't offer him enough challenges and he felt it was time to move on and do something great," his mother, Patricia, said from the family home in Venango, Neb., a few miles from the Colorado border.

I find this particularly important:

Brandenn was home schooled. By age 6, when many little boys are learning to read, he was ready to tackle high school. He enrolled in the Independent Study High School in Lincoln through the University of Nebraska, taking most of his courses by mail.

....

"He set the pace," she said. "We only did what he wanted. (We might say) 'Instead of taking three classes, why don't you take one?' We let him make his own choices from the time he was an infant. ... He always made good choices."

We should give children more choices.

[Leannain]

man that makes me sad ,i can't express by words,such a special being,a genious lost

[Gandalf]

I don't find the above story at all suprising. It is the case that a lot of people who suffer from chronic depression and other mental afflictions like schizophrenia, are also in many cases highly intelligent, prompting some people to wonder if there is a link.

I think in some cases there is. It is not far fetched to imagine being really bright but feeing held back by others or somehow perceiving that you will not ever be able to get that something to make you happy. The rest of us dullards are happier.. dont they say ignorance is bliss?    maybe in some cases!

We all have to remember as well that no matter how brainy you are, you can still f**k up and make really dumb decisions... esp. when the emotions are involved.. then all intelligence, now matter how bright, goes out the window.

He was at a dodgy age..14... maybe he discovered he was gay...  but was brought up to believe that this was a 'bad' thing, so blew his brains out in a fit of emotional, hormonal despair... maybe he discovered he was schizophrenic and realizing this, after everything was going so well for him, could have been a HUGE blow.... the disorder usually manifests itself during puberty.. again, he may have got into a fit of depsir after hearing the voices etc and of course didnt tell his parents, who worshiped him as 'the boy genius'. He therefore had nowhere to turn..... in a momentary fit of emotional despair he pulled the trigger.

People are so very complex and although this sounds obvious, you cant just categorise people as 'types'.. people are so full of internal contradictions and paradoxes. You never can tell whats going on underneath.

Doug

[Kazbadan]

Sure that he had lots of challenges, but what about love?

Maybe he didnt have almost any love in his life.

Without love childrens will not grow up normally.

[Telos]

Gandalf, his mother said he showed no signs of depression.

Kaz, it sounds like his parents loved him. Perhaps it's because of love that people grow up to be exceptional people. And perhaps love is an exceptional thing.

[Leannain]

nope.
my parents always loved me.
an enormous kind of love.

and I'm not even near that genius.

people put too much emphasis on "love"

[Gandalf]

Gandalf, his mother said he showed no signs of depression.

Ha! Telos, This means nothing!

One thing you should know about depression, is that people can become masters of hiding it, even at 14. Their parents can be none the wiser, believe me!

Doug

[Telos]

I don't know, Gandalf. That is very dubious.

The profile they give of the boy in the article is one of tremendous independence and freedom. Not only did he have complete power over his academic life, he also had incredible creative outlets. He was also considerably altruistic.

This, and probably much else, prompted his mother to consider him highly "connected to the spiritual world," such that he ended his life to move on to levels of existence where he "could do something great."

Socially, he was, "an extraordinary blend of fun-loving child and serious adult." He was never afraid of public appearances, and hung around with people of all ages. "He had an easy smile. He really was unpretentious."

This case deserves better scrutiny from you.

[Telos]

Leannain, did your parents give you the freedom to guide your own fate and to live life at your own pace?

Your parents may not have loved you that much. And that's not necessarily their fault. I don't think many people know how to love completely - parents especially, because an important part of love is recognizing the free will of another. Parents tend to feel a need to "tame" the will of their children, but little do they know they only exacerbate the problems they try to avoid.

That said, you're a genius inside, Leannain. Accept it. Everyone is. You just haven't given yourself the freedom to be so. Depending on your city, country, family, and friends, giving yourself that freedom can be extremely difficult.

[Leannain]

Leannain, did your parents give you the freedom to guide your own fate and to live life at your own pace?

yes they did.and i screwed it quite a bit   .

Your parents may not have loved you that much. And that's not necessarily their fault. I don't think many people know how to love completely - parents especially, because an important part of love is recognizing the free will of another. Parents tend to feel a need to "tame" the will of their children, but little do they know they only exacerbate the problems they try to avoid.

That said, you're a genius inside, Leannain. Accept it. Everyone is. You just haven't given yourself the freedom to be so. Depending on your city, country, family, and friends, giving yourself that freedom can be extremely difficult.

i really appreciate you're kind words,telos,but I'm  not a genius inside,I'm not worth 1% of that  boy, nor do i have  his potencial  

we must mourn the loss of a great being.

[beavis]

you're a genius inside, Leannain. Accept it. Everyone is

A genius has to be smarter than most people. Everybody cant be one.

[Telos]

i really appreciate you're kind words,telos,but I'm not a genius inside,I'm not worth 1% of that boy, nor do i have his potencial

Well, I suppose you have to be really smart to know your own potential so well.

Beavis, everyone can be a genius except you.

[Leannain]

there's a difference between being really smart and being aware of reality.my own reality.
again thanks for the compliments.
good night time to hit the sack.

[Telos]

there's a difference between being really smart and being aware of reality.my own reality.

Not really!

[Leannain]

explain please.

(i'll read tomorrow when i wake up -_-)

[Telos]

Well, if all you're aware of is your own stupidity, that's all you'll see. It's really that simple.

I'm not going to sell you a self-help book on it.

[Leannain]

. i acept what i am,i admit my own stupidity and flaws cause i'm an honest person =)

i don't like all that talk"we are all special, inside we are all genius etc etc"
false. some are born great,others become great  but have the potential and others never reach greatness.

you can't compare a normal person with  einstein, einstein's life is worth 1000000 more than me or any ordinary guy,the genius is a lot more important to the human race than the ordinary guy.

i don't need self help books, i never did  =) i just acept the fact when someone is superior to me.

oh keep on topic we're talking about the death of the boy not  about me (i hate attention x) )

i admit you're  probably going to  pwn me at arguments because of your higher IQ.

=)
seriously i must sleep !!

bye bye,and the conversation was entertaining.

[patapouf]

You may be one of the ''greatest'' genuises but commit many stupidities anyway: ignorance is to blame. Intelligence do not make you less ignorant: it is a great tool toward spirituality if it is used accordingly. It may be self-destructive also and this is the reason why some people that are in psychiatric houses have high IQs because they can't function easily in society.

[Gandalf]

This is true. There is a big difference between intelligence and wisdom. The later (hopefully) gets better with age and comes with, or is, an aspect of experience. Intelligence is something you have a certain degree of and you make the best of it.

This can be very hard to understand, particularly for many young people who just don't understand how it is possible to be extremely intelligent but at the same time do or think some extremely dumb things. I know, i'm only just getting to grips with the difference between intelligence and wisdom myself!

Doug

[no_leaf_clover]

Gandalf, his mother said he showed no signs of depression.

I'm constantly depressed but my parents have no idea, I'm sure.

I wouldn't know (don't know how much depression is usual for someone my age), but I'm beginning to suspect I may be bipolar or manic depressive based on the past few months. I've noticed a connection to being around friends. Less social contact = longer episodes of depression, to such an extent that I'm about 100% sure it's the main reason I'm depresed so often, along with internal pressure, etc. I've started going out more and it helps.

Along the same line, When I am out with friends, depression never seems to be a problem, so obviously it isn't very noticeable from the outside. Only maybe one or two close friends can tell when something's up anyway. If not for coming out and talking about depression like this, if I was to kill myself in a horrible bout of depression, no one would have any idea why.

Having said all that, I'm no boy genius. lol

Another thing that's really helpful that maybe I should mention for anyone here often depressed is a Buddhist meditation on emotions. Just sitting and observing an emotion and getting used to how it feels and experiencing it more deeply, rather than, as the article I read put it, 'grasping for bits happiness', or some such phrase, helps.

i admit you're probably going to pwn me at arguments

Nice. What games do you play? Just out of curiousity, I guess lol. I stopped playing games :/

[Telos]

Didn't some wise person once say something to the effect of, "the things you like in other people are the things you like in yourself?"

Man. That person must've been a genius, or something.

There is a big difference between intelligence and wisdom. The later (hopefully) gets better with age and comes with, or is, an aspect of experience. Intelligence is something you have a certain degree of and you make the best of it.

I don't know, Gandalf. I've met some children who do some pretty wise things. I think if you allow them the opportunity to be mature, instead of demanding or expecting it from them, children will surprise you every time. Was this child not wise because he shot himself?

Intelligence is knowing how to apply your experience, and wisdom is knowing when to apply it. And knowing how to apply it is knowing when to apply it, and knowing when to apply it is knowing how to apply it. If that statement sounds messy, then it's because you haven't applied your experience to it at all.

You can have the experience of a 4-year-old and be wiser than Confucius. But he's not all that wise to begin with (feminine servitude, anyone?)

I think I'm going to have to dispel this myth of disparity between intelligence and wisdom. Our passively authoritative school system has caused this disconnect. Both are mutually necessarily and omnipresent, and we do a disservice to say they are different.

You are neither intelligent nor wise to ignore that they are the same.

[Edit: Now that I think of it, the perceived difference between intelligence and wisdom may be an axiom over which the New Age is built, spearheading the unfortunate denial of the intellect. Time for me to link that thread again.]

[Kazbadan]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGRHHRHRHHRHRH!!!!

THIS Is boring!!

Ok, now i am more calm and relaxed: i was writing a big post and then i clicked in the wrong button and everything just disapeared -_- (i couldnt make any "undo").

I will submit my post later on, if i have patient to re-write it...

[Telos]

THIS Is boring!!

Shedding the trappings and illusions that surround you isn't interesting?

[Kazbadan]

Ok, now i think can repat more or less what i deleted withiut wanting (grrrrrr!  this is me pretending that i am bad... :- )   ).

My ideas:
1) About hiding depression, i know for my own experience that it is possible. I remember a time when i was having very bad depressions (i had it for years) and some people said to me that i was the opposite of a non-depressive person...i was really good on hidding my problems.

2) About being a genius: on this moment of my life, a genius its a person that can adapt itself to soociety and be an active and important part of it, even if it is at a low scale. For example, when i was younger and a depressive person, i was considered to be very inteligent (please, understand that i am not "inflating" my ego, but just telling this for you to understand my thoughts.

I was inteligent but i was very shy and i would fear everything, specially new situations. I was the kind of person that, due to my mental state, wouldnt have any sucess in life (job, love, friends, etc).

I remember that at the same time i had some friends that were, aparently stupid people on the school (they just would not care about that, only about girlfreinds, partys, etc). That friends have now good jobs and a stable life an they get it faster than me, much more faster and they were very happy since that time untile now.

I can tell you that now i a have sucess to, but just because i staeted to change myself, my point of view, my behaviour. Now i am not depressive; more than that i feel that i can be even more happy than now and i am working for it. Now i am usefull for society because i can do things with more happyness and strenght. I am usefull, i am inteligent.

I mean, normally we consider an inteligent person someone that can calculate 3535 x 32593509,242 in seconds using just thei mind, or someone that can memorize a book with hundreds of pages..etc Sure that they are inteligent in a computer-like way, but they are not inteligentin a Dawrinistic way. If this kind of person does not have any sucess in life and dont know how to live, they are not really genius.

The guy that is very happy, have mental flexibility, its good on his job and knows how to deal with emotional conflits (in his life, with friends, etc) its far way more inteligent than the mathematical genius wich life its resumed to a computer desk, hacking, downloading porno things and his friends are just nicknames in some chatroom.

Budha and Mother Theresa are genius: they were (and still are) usefull and good for humanity (i said Budha, but if you prefer you can say Jesus, Maomet, etc, if that its your religion) and because, when they were alive, they were adpated to their realitys and in control of it

Isaac Newton was a little crazy. Shure that the Maths that he created are still being usefull, but he has no emotional intelgence...i hear say that is personal life was stupid and he was unhappy...is that an inteligent guy? If i am a dpressive person and i use my stenghts to get away from that state to a superior state that its good for me an others, i am being a genius.

This is my opinion.

[Kazbadan]

THIS Is boring!!

Shedding the trappings and illusions that surround you isn't interesting?

lol! yes it is, but i must say that when i write that i was a little bored(not unhappy) with the fact that my arm was tired from so much writing, and suddenly everything "puff" just disapeared...