To those who have OBEs!

Donna · October 31, 2002, 21:33:55

Hi ninthplanet,
I have noticed lately that the idea is that everyone leaves their body "only during sleep" seems to be discussed here on these forums a lot.
Personally, I can leave my body at any time I choose to give my attention to the process. If I choose to send my consciousness "out" to a destination of my choice, creating a body double there automatically at any time of day from a completely lucid state, I do that. I remain lucid there and here at the same time, and can and do write my experience "here" as it unfolds "there".
If I choose to use the phasing method any time of day, going from fully lucid into deep meditation, to out of body to the destination of my choice, then I do that. And yes in all cases there is total recall. I do not limit myself with all these "rules". I state my intent, give my full attention to it and my consciousness follows my direction.
If I believed that I had to "have vibrations first' then move into a duplicate body that I had created and all these limiting rules I hear here, gee, I would probably still be Earth Bound.Whenever I meditate and have no intended destination I go "no where".
I do lucid dream and travel out of body during my sleep, but this is not what I give my attention to, so have only occasional recall.
No offence to anyone, please, it is just that we all have such amazing abilities to simply "do" these things.With simply stated intent, either written or verbal, and giving our "full attention" to reaching a definite "goal". Whether that goal be the back yard or the rescue of spirits after any disaster, or whatever "focus level" you may choose.Keeping attention focused on my goal keeps me out of body, and in control. If my attention slips-so does my ability to stay out. It seems that so much attention is being given to these "rules of the process" that our personal human will and the tremendous power of the human mind is totally pushed aside.
Donna

Lysear · November 01, 2002, 05:58:19

with my experience I became lucid during a dream . However My awarenesss within that dream was more than in a normal dream, I felt more clear, colours more vivid. However it was still different to phsyical reality a bit more etheral and blurred.

Lysear

Jeff_Mash · November 01, 2002, 10:18:13

quote:
Originally posted by ninthplanet:
This meaning, when you're out of body, do you actually know whats going on and have concious thoughts like, " hey I'm out of my physical body right now, let me go explore.

I agree with Donna. Whenever I am having an OBE/AP, I am fully aware of the situation. I know that I'm in an altered state of consciousness. I know that I have a physical body back in bed, and I possess all of my mental faculties (ability to reason, to discern my environment).

Bottom line, it's exactly as I am when I'm awake.

Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

ralphm · November 01, 2002, 13:53:54

Seems like a continuation of conciouness- I usually wake when I reenter. Usually I don't think much, just head in certain directions, though the other night I had an experience where I had a pretty active thought process. One difference from a lucid dream I just thought of- ihad lucid dreams where things are moving like on a screen, while obe's 'I' am present and moving around, also with a good degree of continuity, ever notice how dreams just flit from scene to scene? I had a bit of sight problem in my first obe's, but my sight is still not better than my vision without glasses.

michael · November 03, 2002, 10:06:33

Donna and Jeff..if I was able to guarantee an OBE at will i would be willing to undergo randi's chalenge...I am only being curious..why( and i konw this topic is done to death already)..but why don't you prove this wonderful thing( which I can only expereince spontaneously..after sleep..)

Donna · November 03, 2002, 16:27:15

quote:
Originally posted by michael:
Donna and Jeff..if I was able to guarantee an OBE at will i would be willing to undergo randi's chalenge...I am only being curious..why( and i konw this topic is done to death already)..but why don't you prove this wonderful thing( which I can only expereince spontaneously..after sleep..)

Hi michael,
"I" am not out to prove anything to "anyone". It is more important to possibly help others who who want to achieve what I know to be possible for themselves. That simply takes an attitude of "I want to know and experience for myself". When you have personal experience, then no one can take that from you. When it comes to spiritual matters, that is all that matters, in my opinion.
The governments' use of remote viewing should have already convinced "Mr. Randi", he just wants to argue, and I have no time for that.
Donna
l

Jeff_Mash · November 03, 2002, 16:47:45

quote:
Originally posted by michael:
Donna and Jeff..if I was able to guarantee an OBE at will i would be willing to undergo randi's chalenge...I am only being curious..why( and i konw this topic is done to death already)..but why don't you prove this wonderful thing( which I can only expereince spontaneously..after sleep..)

Michael,

I don't do that for two reasons. One, I can't yet do these at will. I can only prepare for them, create the right mindset, and hope that my intent is strong enough at the time to allow me to project without simply falling asleep.

Second, to me, Randi is not a skeptic. He's a cinic. He is not wanting to believe. His mind is already made up, and those kinds of people are never convincable.

It's almost a catch 22 for me. The only time I would try to convince a skeptic is when I can do these at will, whenever I want. However, once I'm able to do these at will (whenever I want), then I'll have my mind too busy focusing on helping others instead of debunking skeptics.

Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Patty · November 03, 2002, 20:20:52

Hi Ninth Planet,

In my experience, altered conscious states are quite distinct from dreams (though technically dreaming is a state of altered consciousness.)

I never wake from a dream and say "Was that really an OBE?" Maybe some of them were, but I just keep them in the dream category because it seems like quite a slippery slope to start allowing *anything* to prove survival of death.

Rather, there is a discrete type of consciousness distinct from dreams, in which I feel fully conscious, separate from my body, and aware of what's going on. I call these OBE's or AP's. I have the most aware versions between awake and asleep, in a very relaxed state but not all the way gone.

I can't do it at will. I doubt anyone can in the sense that you mean. I have little doubt that many people may achieve an altered state of consciousness at will, but when Michael talks of the randi challenge, I think we are comparing apples and oranges. In my experience, AP's are subject to distortions from the physical world. So I may some day believe that I can project anytime, anywhere, at will - and still not meet Randi's criteria - because the experience is so tenous and hard to understand in the first place. We ARE talking about spirits here, after all. I mean, we don't even fully understand the physical underpinnings of our own world - how can we hope to predict what might be gleaned from an AP? About the government RV program - it was abandoned. Apparently they had "phenomenal hits, and phenomenal misses."

This is completely separate from the question of whether it is worthwhile or not. Of courfse it is. It just isn't, in my experience, what you might expect.

Does that answer your question?

Patty

ninthplanet · November 04, 2002, 15:16:57

thanks everyone for writing, though I think some of you were slightly confused on what I was asking. I used the the dreams to make an analogy, they were not really pertinent to the question. I just wanted to know while in an OBE does one have present knowledge that they are having one, and then they are able to try and go anywhere they choose. Or, is it only after the OBE is over, does one realize they have had an OBE. B/c to me, I am aware of a dream only the next morning when I am awake, but I am aware of the lucid the second I realize I am dreaming, and then I am able to control the dream.
Maybe this should help, though Mash hit the nail on the head. Sorry for the confusion

-ninthplanet

clandestino · November 05, 2002, 06:34:08

Hi ninth Planet, I think that there are a couple of different schools of thought on this issue.

One holds that Lucid Dreams are not OBE's. The other holds that Lucid dreams are a type of OBE.

A traditional "out of your body, wandering around your house, not being able to pick things up and floating through walls" style OBE, a Real Time Zone OBE, seems quite distinct from a lucid dream, where you are awake in a strange environment, with a degree of influence over your surroundings.

If your OBE involved you being somewhere in the astral plane, your surroundings might also be strange, and influenced by your thoughts - just like a lucid dream.

Going back to your question (!), it isn't an OBE unless you are aware at the time that you are experiencing it...............Well, that's my opinion anyway.

As for whether Lucid dream = OBE (astral plane OBE).....hmmmmmm.....I think they are the same thing, with one major difference : in a lucid dream, you "wake up" in the astral environment, but your mind has already had a degree of influence on your surroundings.

once again.....thats only my little opinion. I think there needs to be much more debate on :
1) difference between Lucid dreams and astral
2) objectivity (and hence reality) of RTZ experiences
3) OBE (out of body) actually Being Out of Body.....

cheers
Mark

Jeff_Mash · November 05, 2002, 07:34:21

quote:
Originally posted by ninthplanet:
I used the the dreams to make an analogy, they were not really pertinent to the question. I just wanted to know while in an OBE does one have present knowledge that they are having one, and then they are able to try and go anywhere they choose. Or, is it only after the OBE is over, does one realize they have had an OBE.

To answer your question, yes. When I am having an OBE, I know exactly what is happening. I know that this is not what normal people consider to be "real life" and that I'm projecting. I know that if I don't maintain a level of detachment from the experience, then I may get too excited and return to my body, which I know is incapacitated elsewhere.

This is quite different from my normal dreams, when I only remember them after I wake up.

Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Frank · November 05, 2002, 08:19:17

Yes, I absolutely reiterate what Jeff is saying.

While on the Astral, I have full waking consciousness. I know exactly where I am, and what I am doing. I am free to move around at will and to chat with anyone in my vicinity that is open to me. When I say chat, I mean converse with exactly the same clarity and detail as if I were on the Physical.

That's the scintillating, mind-bending beauty of it.

Yours,
Frank

ninthplanet · November 05, 2002, 16:16:02

Great thanks jeff and frank, this has definitely strengthened my urge to focus more on OBE!

Kodemaster · November 09, 2002, 20:55:46

quote:
Originally posted by ninthplanet:
Alright I just wanna throw this question out to all those lucky ones who travel on the out of body highway. Is an OBE similar to a dream or a lucid dream? This meaning, when you're out of body, do you actually know whats going on and have concious thoughts like, " hey I'm out of my physical body right now, let me go explore. I hope I can remember this when I get back to my physical body." Or is it kind of like a dream, where you're just kind of doin whatever, and happen to remember the experience when you awaken.

Thanks,
-ninthplanet

When I am out of body, one of the first things I think is "Oh, here I am again. It's this place" and I kinda smile inside my head. I don't try to think it too hard, tho, as I don't want to get sucked back in!

Jeni

ninthplanet · October 31, 2002, 20:40:44

Alright I just wanna throw this question out to all those lucky ones who travel on the out of body highway. Is an OBE similar to a dream or a lucid dream? This meaning, when you're out of body, do you actually know whats going on and have concious thoughts like, " hey I'm out of my physical body right now, let me go explore. I hope I can remember this when I get back to my physical body." Or is it kind of like a dream, where you're just kind of doin whatever, and happen to remember the experience when you awaken.

Thanks,
-ninthplanet

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To those who have OBEs!